191 replies to this topic

[nivoglibina]

Say whatever you want sprint race haters, but enjoyed today's sprint more than any of the other races we've had this season so far.

True, but I have less anticipation of tomorrow being a good race because of it.

[Gravelngrass]

Say whatever you want sprint race haters, but enjoyed today's sprint more than any of the other races we've had this season so far.

Exactly. The best racing we’ve had this year. And last year, some sprints brought better racing than the main event as well. An additional qualy (although that’s the part I don’t find necessary) and another race will always be better than practice sessions. People complaining about the sprints spoiling the main race have it all wrong. It’s not the sprint’s fault, it’s F1’s inability to create better racing in general.

[Dalton007]

If it was a practice session, I wouldn't have watched it.

 

Sprint races 

Edited by Dalton007, 20 April 2024 - 15:15.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Say whatever you want sprint race haters, but enjoyed today's sprint more than any of the other races we've had this season so far.

 

Good battle between 4 cars for 3 laps or so...but other than that...

[LolaB0860]

Yeah, instead of knowing that Verstappen will win only by 10 seconds, after watching Sprint ™ I now know he will win by 45 seconds.

 

There was a good scrap for those 3 laps or whatever between Alonso/Ferraris/McLaren, but that could've happened in the regular race anyway, especially had there been rain for mixed up grid. It just happened that the rain came for Friday qualifying instead of the otherwise identical clone Saturday qualifying.

Edited by LolaB0860, 20 April 2024 - 15:28.

[IrvTheSwerve]

(I've repeated myself loads on here and we're obviously all not going to agree    )

 

It doesn't really matter if we had a good battle in the sprint for a small part of the race. Or if the sprint was pants. Or if it was the best 'race' of all time. I think most people who don't like them don't agree with the effect they have on the weekend AS A WHOLE. The crescendo of a GP weekend is gone. Qualifying earlier was pants to watch as there was a race just before it. It just ruins the whole F1 weekend for me. If you enjoy it, fine.

 

We now know tomorrow that Max easily has 1 sec a lap in hand over anyone apart from Checo, assuming no problems. Not that this is a surprise these days but it would spoil a close season. 

 

There is no enthusiasm about them from teams or drivers and a sizeable (majority?) amount of fans. If Lewis won today, do you think he'd be screaming over the radio? No. Because no one really cares...Lando didn't care about his 'pole', Piastri didn't care about his 'win'...it's just all forced through to have a race with the chance of action and crashes rather than a practice session, to bring in the younger generation with social media clicks. It is what it is.

[LolaB0860]

Someone said the best some time ago, it used to be

 

Saturday:

F1 Qualifying - Appetizer

F2/GP2 Feature Race - Main Course (for Saturday)

 

Sunday:

F2/GP2 Sprint Race - Appetizer

Sunday - Main Course

 

Now you've spoiled your dinner already both in Sprint weekends and also whenever F2 is there as they've swapped it otherway round.

 

Although to be "fair" to Sprints, as meaningless as they are they itself are not the biggest problem, but the boring clone qualifying format that gets repeated twice

Edited by LolaB0860, 20 April 2024 - 15:41.

[RedRabbit]

I think the other issue about the Sprints is that it adds quite a hefty additional points to just 6 random events without any particular reason.

For example, Hamilton nearly doubled his season tally in one Sprint, mainly through unusual track conditions the day before. The drivers competing directly against him don't get an immediate chance to retaliate those "bonus" points. Nothing against Hamilton as he drove well to score those, but I hope I made the point clear?

[Sterzo]

(I've repeated myself loads on here and we're obviously all not going to agree    )

 

It doesn't really matter if we had a good battle in the sprint for a small part of the race. Or if the sprint was pants. Or if it was the best 'race' of all time. I think most people who don't like them don't agree with the effect they have on the weekend AS A WHOLE.

 

I agree with this and would add that I'd appreciate the World Championship to consist of a smaller number of more important events, such that even I could remember what happened in a season.

 

However, it's also true that a motor race is a motor race. They are spectacular and enjoyable, and having races of a different length adds to the interest. For me, racing matters most. Championships and "events" and build-ups and weekend formats are all fluff in comparison.

[ARTGP]

Exactly. The best racing we’ve had this year. And last year, some sprints brought better racing than the main event as well. An additional qualy (although that’s the part I don’t find necessary) and another race will always be better than practice sessions. People complaining about the sprints spoiling the main race have it all wrong. It’s not the sprint’s fault, it’s F1’s inability to create better racing in general.

 

The more likely reason that the sprint was okay was because the sprint qualifying was wet which put a few cars out of order.

 

The same thing would have happened in the GP if the cars started out of order.  It's a result of getting lucky with a wet qualifying more than the sprint race itself causing it. 

Edited by ARTGP, 20 April 2024 - 15:59.

[Gravelngrass]

The more likely reason that the sprint was okay was because the sprint qualifying was wet which put a few cars out of order.

The same thing would have happened in the GP if the cars started out of order. It's a result of getting lucky with a wet qualifying more than the sprint race itself causing it.

The best racing in the sprint happened towards the end, contradicting your point. Norris lost his position at the beginning and Ham I think it was not even half race. Ves went to the front relatively quickly too. I think the sprints have more potential to create better racing because there are no stops. The only passing that’s going to happen is going to have to be on-track. If this makes F1 realize maybe less variables is better, the sprints will have played a huge role in improving racing.

[Anderis]

(I've repeated myself loads on here and we're obviously all not going to agree    )

 

It doesn't really matter if we had a good battle in the sprint for a small part of the race. Or if the sprint was pants. Or if it was the best 'race' of all time. I think most people who don't like them don't agree with the effect they have on the weekend AS A WHOLE. The crescendo of a GP weekend is gone. Qualifying earlier was pants to watch as there was a race just before it. It just ruins the whole F1 weekend for me. If you enjoy it, fine.

That's pretty much what I thought when the sprint races were introduced. It does take away from both qualifying and main race a bit. I'm sure I wrote a post like that a few years ago. I was definetely sceptical of the idea when it was first introduced.

 

But the longer these sprint races have been around, the more I realise that I actually enjoy them. And I often get more excited about them than about main races (I guess because there's fewer of them in a season). I guess it's better to have an exciting sprint race that brings detriment to both qualifying and race, than just have a boring race without that detriment.

[Anderis]

It just happened that the rain came for Friday qualifying instead of the otherwise identical clone Saturday qualifying.

That's part of the equation. When we have a 2nd race during a weekend, there's more chance for random events to bring some interest.
 

[ARTGP]

The best racing in the sprint happened towards the end, contradicting your point. Norris lost his position at the beginning and Ham I think it was not even half race. Ves went to the front relatively quickly too. I think the sprints have more potential to create better racing because there are no stops. The only passing that’s going to happen is going to have to be on-track.

 

 

I will admit that this is a good point.  Sainz and Perez would have just pitted to overtake Alonso in the GP. 

Edited by ARTGP, 20 April 2024 - 17:42.

[LolaB0860]

That's part of the equation. When we have a 2nd race during a weekend, there's more chance for random events to bring some interest.

But if we go by that logic, the logic of mere quantity, they could have 30 or 40 events a season because that would also increase the chances of randomization happening somewhere

Edited by LolaB0860, 20 April 2024 - 17:50.

[IrvTheSwerve]

But if we go by that logic, the logic of mere quantity, they could have 30 or 40 events a season because that would also increase the chances of randomization happening somewhere

It’s the worst argument there is. Let’s just have a race instead of fp1 and go straight into the GP if that’s the case.

[Sterzo]

The best racing in the sprint happened towards the end, contradicting your point. Norris lost his position at the beginning and Ham I think it was not even half race. Ves went to the front relatively quickly too. I think the sprints have more potential to create better racing because there are no stops. The only passing that’s going to happen is going to have to be on-track. If this makes F1 realize maybe less variables is better, the sprints will have played a huge role in improving racing.

This statement is so true that it should form the basis of a new religion.

 

Two cars are running close together? Then one of them stops because he's on a different strategy, and they don't see each other for twenty minutes. Then the one on fresher tyres comes sailing past as though the other is standing still.

[Anderis]

But if we go by that logic, the logic of mere quantity, they could have 30 or 40 events a season because that would also increase the chances of randomization happening somewhere

But with sprint races, we can have more randomization with the same number of race weekends.

[Gravelngrass]

This statement is so true that it should form the basis of a new religion.

Two cars are running close together? Then one of them stops because he's on a different strategy, and they don't see each other for twenty minutes. Then the one on fresher tyres comes sailing past as though the other is standing still.

I’d be happy with a new paradigm for F1 and racing in general…

If you look at Motogp, aside from other factors of course, that’s one of the main ones that makes racing so much better than F1.

It makes so much sense that it’s going to create direct competition between evenly matched cars (in terms of tyres, luckily they already equalized weights by eliminating refueling), and force them to pass on track, that it would seem like the first thing you’d want to implement to try to improve the racing.

[Alexis*27]

Definitely preferred the old timetable. There's no crescendo now - it just feels like two unconnected events, like when we had identical events on subsequent weekends in Covid.

Couldn't get excited about full qualifying because we've already had two events that had already revealed everyone's pace. We also know the race pace before qualifying, which is a bit odd.

Not being allowed to mention the sprint result in qualifying just highlighted the fact it's all in the wrong order.

[Gravelngrass]

Definitely preferred the old timetable. There's no crescendo now - it just feels like two unconnected events, like when we had identical events on subsequent weekends in Covid.

Couldn't get excited about full qualifying because we've already had two events that had already revealed everyone's pace. We also know the race pace before qualifying, which is a bit odd.

Not being allowed to mention the sprint result in qualifying just highlighted the fact it's all in the wrong order.

But it’s not a magic show is it? What if you think you know the relative pace of the cars? If they are not evenly matched there will be no good racing anyway and THAT is the problem. If they are, there is potential for good racing and that’s all a racing fan needs. If you have more events, more probability of good racing. It’s not that complicated.

[MikeTekRacing]

The more likely reason that the sprint was okay was because the sprint qualifying was wet which put a few cars out of order.

The same thing would have happened in the GP if the cars started out of order. It's a result of getting lucky with a wet qualifying more than the sprint race itself causing it.

The Drs trains were absolutely horrible

Edited by MikeTekRacing, 21 April 2024 - 00:42.

[Junky]

S***show.

[masa90]

Man there has been loads of luck with weather for sprints. I can imagine without the random wet weather quali -> cars out of place -> some entertainment.

 

Otherwise it would propably been just similar like the race today, a proper boring prosession.

[PayasYouRace]

Erm, there were on track passes all throughout the race today.

[Alexis*27]

But it’s not a magic show is it? What if you think you know the relative pace of the cars? If they are not evenly matched there will be no good racing anyway and THAT is the problem. If they are, there is potential for good racing and that’s all a racing fan needs. If you have more events, more probability of good racing. It’s not that complicated.

I literally have no idea what this has got to do with the points I made.

[ray b]

well anyone in the USA SEE THE DAMM SPRINT RACE ?

WHY WAS IT NOT ON ESPN 1 2 OR 3

 

WHAT HAPPEN TO SHOWING FREE PRACTICE

[pdac]

well anyone in the USA SEE THE DAMM SPRINT RACE ?

WHY WAS IT NOT ON ESPN 1 2 OR 3

 

WHAT HAPPEN TO SHOWING FREE PRACTICE

 

Sorry, could you repeat that a little louder. I did not quite catch what you're trying to say.

[Gravelngrass]

I literally have no idea what this has got to do with the points I made.

You were complaining that the sprint already reveals the relative pace of the cars and that detracts from the main race. I’m saying that shouldn’t matter as it’s not like we’re watching the main race to be surprised (plus you already get a pretty good idea from qualy), but to, hopefully, see some racing. As the sprint showed, racing happening or not is more important that the relative finishing positions of team or driver x or y. For those who are fans of racing more than team or driver fans that is…

[Alexis*27]

You were complaining that the sprint already reveals the relative pace of the cars and that detracts from the main race. I’m saying that shouldn’t matter as it’s not like we’re watching the main race to be surprised (plus you already get a pretty good idea from qualy), but to, hopefully, see some racing. As the sprint showed, racing happening or not is more important that the relative finishing positions of team or driver x or y. For those who are fans of racing more than team or driver fans that is…

 

No, I said the sprint race reveals the relative pace and that detracts from Qualifying.

 

The main race has always followed the sprint. 

[Gravelngrass]

No, I said the sprint race reveals the relative pace and that detracts from Qualifying.

The main race has always followed the sprint.

If anything, the sprint qualifying would make the full race qualifying more predictable and I agree that two qualifying sessions are maybe redundant.

My point was it’s not like we don’t already more or less know the pecking order, so if you put things in a scales, not having a sprint because it detracts from the main qualy session vs having a sprint that has higher potential for good racing than even the main race, I’d go for the latter.

[Sterzo]

No, I said the sprint race reveals the relative pace and that detracts from Qualifying.

 

The main race has always followed the sprint. 

Hope you didn't put money on that. In China, Verstappen and Perez finished first and third in both races, but neither the rest of the order, nor the events in the races, were the same at all.

[AustinF1]

well anyone in the USA SEE THE DAMM SPRINT RACE ?

WHY WAS IT NOT ON ESPN 1 2 OR 3

 

WHAT HAPPEN TO SHOWING FREE PRACTICE

Yeah. It was on ESPN U.

[KWSN - DSM]

I could have sworn I watched it on ESPN2, guess I will be a poor witness.

[AustinF1]

I could have sworn I watched it on ESPN2, guess I will be a poor witness.

It was a little all over the place, as usual. In order, the sessions were on ESPNU, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPN2, and ESPN.

[MikeTekRacing]

youtube TV and reminder function for the show mean I never care who airs it.
It appears on my home screen and it gets recorded anyway if I am not there

[Wuzak]

The problem I find with The Sprint is that it isn't really a sprint - they still have to conserve the tyres to make the distance.

 

And that it is another race.

 

So I thought about an alternative, inspired by cycling's Individual Pursuit.

 

In the Individual Pursuit, the two competitors start and finish on opposite sides of the track, racing against the clock and each other over a set distance of 4km (men) or 3km (women).

 

Each round, the loser is eliminated, and the winner goes to teh next round, until the final 2 face off.

 

 

Starting on opposite sides of the track is impractical for F1, and probably unfair. 

 

And having 1 v 1 would take too long for a session in F1.

 

 

Instead, we could divide the drivers into 4 heats.

 

The cars would start from pole position in 10s increments.

The lights would operate on a time schedule. The driver's time starts when the lights go out - that penalises drivers late to the grid.

The drivers must come to a complete stop in the grid spot.

There would be approximatley 8-10 minutes for each heat, but in number of laps. So Monaco might be 8 laps, Spa 5 laps.

The fastest two drivers go to the next round, where there are 2 heats. The fastest 2 from each heat then go on to the final round.

For points, I would say 2 points each for losing semi finalists, then 8-6-5-4 for 1-4 in the final.

DRS woudl operate as in qualifying - free to use in designated areas. (That might change from 2026.)

Tyres woudl be free choice from allocation.

 

This would take longer than The Sprint as it currently is. Possibly about 90 minutes.

Because of that, I would run this in the second Friday session, with normal practice in the first Saturday session. There would be a competive session each of the days on GP weekend.

The lineups for the first heats could be based on FP1 times. Heat 1 could be 1-5-9-13-17, 2nd 2-6-10-14-18, etc.

Or could be from random draws.

 

 

I'm not sure that this would be better than The Sprint, but it would be different to another race. Sort of like several concurrent time trials.

It woudl be different to qualifying in that it is run over several laps, so special qualifying modes probably could not be used the entire time, and it is over several laps.

 

 

Of course, the best option would be to drop The Sprint completely.

[F1 Mike]

Of course, the best option would be to drop The Sprint completely.

I'm not religious, but I pray every day that someone at the helm of F1 will eventually admit that this is the best way forward

[KWSN - DSM]

Raises hand to disagree.

1. The Sprints should stay.
2. There should be a Sprint at all Grand Prix's.

Preferably Sprint result = Grand Prix start grid.

[pdac]

Raises hand to disagree.

1. The Sprints should stay.
2. There should be a Sprint at all Grand Prix's.

Preferably Sprint result = Grand Prix start grid.

 

Boo

[onemoresolo]

Raises hand to disagree.

1. The Sprints should stay.
2. There should be a Sprint at all Grand Prix's.

Preferably Sprint result = Grand Prix start grid.

 

I agree bar the last bit. I'd always take a sprint race over a practice session. But pole for the GP should always be set by a qualifying session.

[SenorSjon]

Raises hand to disagree.

1. The Sprints should stay.
2. There should be a Sprint at all Grand Prix's.

Preferably Sprint result = Grand Prix start grid.

 

I quit watching MotoGP due to the additional sprints.