23 replies to this topic

[Herbert Austin]

Interesting piece on local news (BBC South) yesterday 27/12/23 featuring Innes Ireland daughter, with some period film of her father racing.  She openly talks about her early years being a bit of a social whirl featuring many well known drivers of the time followed by personal struggles with mental health, addiction and sleeping on the streets before being helped by a charity.  Very pleased that the outcome is a positive one, she is now dry and working in Andover running the charity that helped her.

[Myhinpaa]

 

https://www.bbc.com/...pshire-67628350

[68targa]

Catch up here - starts 2.30 in

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...e-news-27122023

[Nick Planas]

Glad she is back from the darkness, as it were. Only today the concert I was playing in was introduced by a chap running a charity for the homeless in Oxford; he pointed out that, contrary to a recent opinion expressed by a former Home Secretary, homelessness is not a life choice. He had recently attended the funeral of a homeless man who, it transpired, had been a concert pianist in his earlier life - and none of them had realised.

 

Back on topic, whenever I think of Innes Ireland I wonder how on earth he would have fitted into modern F1... and then I'm thankful that he lived and raced when he did.

[Doug Nye]

Even back in the 1970s we used to remark how Innes would just not have been offered an F1 drive "these days"...  

 

His rumbustious ways had already convinced Colin Chapman to promote Jimmy Clark in his stead way back in 1961-62, and after 1965 his sports car career did not furnish him a living of any great luxury.  In small doses and when sober he was a really pleasant and entertaining bloke, but given a chance of holding court, drinking any establishment near dry, and dancing on the tables while bawling out rugby songs - amongst assorted bawdy or downright filthy others - at the top of his voice, he had few equals.  

 

Many would then take the opportunity to make their apologies and/or discreetly exit stage left.  After a certain point dear old Innes really could become not just embarrassing but occasionally unpleasant to be with.  

 

Once he woke up next morning - occasionally under a table - he would be back into good bloke mode.  That Innes Ireland was very engaging and when he fell on hard times - a serial event - a large group of proper chaps and assorted BRDC and motor trade good guys would often weigh in to help him right the boat - where his nautical activities were concerned, sometimes quite literally...  

 

DCN

[john aston]

I often thought of folk like Innes Ireland during fishing holidays to the NW Highlands in the 80s and 90s . The very traditional hotels were full of people like him - braying loudly , rude to staff (except the sainted ghillies ) , dismissive of parvenu middle class oiks like us who didn't know our place and simply appalling when drunk (ie from an hour before dinner until the early hours ) . So no . I don't miss 'larger than life' drivers like him  ..... 

[Doug Nye]

I sympathise, John, having encountered such boors myself - but remember that in Innes' case there was the fallback good guy baseline which so many of those that you (and I) recall most significantly lacked...

 

Incidentally, Innes' favourite happy-p----ed song as I recall was the rugby-club version (with all appropriate - which for some meant decidedly INappropriate - gestures) of 'Underneath the Spreading Chestnut Tree'.  For the uninitiated see the clean version from 18.00 here https://www.dailymot...m/video/x5s17as.

 

DCN

[Derwent Motorsport]

Christianne Ireland has a Face Book page as Ireland Motorsport which has regular posts and photos from her about her Dad.  She often sounds a little sad and perhaps not well off.  Possibly some bitterness to her step mother as well. 

[2F-001]

... contrary to a recent opinion expressed by a former Home Secretary, homelessness is not a life choice. 

 

For some people it might be a ‘choice’, but what that former Home Sec - and many other people - seem not to ponder is what horrible conditions (or possibly abuse of some sort) those unfortunate folk may have left behind that made homelessness seem a better option.

 

And some people may end up on the street through what me might term as poor life choices - but not all of us are lucky enough to have an upbringing or experiences to engender ‘better’ ones. 

 

There but for the whims of fate, etc…

[Nick Planas]

 

For some people it might be a ‘choice’, but what that former Home Sec - and many other people - seem not to ponder is what horrible conditions (or possibly abuse of some sort) those unfortunate folk may have left behind that made homelessness seem a better option.

 

And some people may end up on the street through what me might term as poor life choices - but not all of us are lucky enough to have an upbringing or experiences to engender ‘better’ ones. 

 

There but for the whims of fate, etc…

 

In the early '90s I lost my father and my business within 10 days of each other (through unrelated circumstances) followed 3 months later by bankruptcy, losing the house, etc. With 4 very young children, I wouldn't have blamed my wife if she'd walked away from me, but we stuck together and fortunately I was headhunted and landed a good job within a year which enabled me to work through the bankruptcy period and come out the other side refreshed, still in my mid-30s.

 

Life has been good to us since, and I'm lucky to be one of the happiest people on the planet, living in my own house, with a career switch at 40 and many friends remaining from both careers, and a loving, and expanding family 

 

I was so lucky to have the support of my family and employer, but it could so easily have gone the other way, so when people hit hard times because of 'bad' choices they made I try not to judge them. It is usually possible to come through these times but you have to have the right support, so when I see a homeless person on the streets I try whenever possible to offer them a coffee at the very least. When I play in shows in Oxford there's often a couple of people sleeping rough near the food kiosks, and we sometimes stop for a quick banter with them; sometimes that's all they need from us, but we try and offer them more.

 

I don't mind that some people in society have never experienced these bad things in life, and I really wouldn't wish them to either, but when you're in a position of authority you have to listen to others and take on board what people are telling you - and use your brain before opening your mouth.

 

As for Innes Ireland, whatever people may have thought of his sometimes outrageous behaviour, his tribute to Jim Clark was one of the best I have ever read, and his empathy for Clark's family, friends, and colleagues (including Colin Chapman) is very striking.

Edited by Nick Planas, 30 December 2023 - 19:46.

[10kDA]

It cannot be said that homelessness is always a result of something other than a life choice. A dear friend was homeless for a time. He told me he had been one dope deal gone wrong away from homelessness for some time, and then the dope deal gone wrong happened. He was able to handle homelessness because that circumstance was "enough" while he continued to practice his own addiction to the drugs he was selling. He chose to end his addiction and leave homelessness behind, and chose to become an MD. One can never lose hope in someone in negative circumstances. If they choose and commit to change, they can follow through with transforming their lives in seemingly miraculous ways. They rarely do it alone, so if someone asks for help it's good to lend it.

[E1pix]

I want to thank everyone for your sensitivity towards homelessness not being a poor life choice.

It’s probably more often not, has nothing to do with drugs or irresponsibility, but rather a combination of circumstances.

It can happen to anyone, and we’ve lived under a fiberglass roof for just over 3,800 days (1984 Westfalia). One of the hardest things to cope with is trying to move forward in a country where the vast majority think another’s at fault, when in reality they see their blessings as entirely self-derived… they have no idea.

I’ve come to realize, though, that maybe part of human nature is to divert true horrors of others into erred causation, as a coping mechanism along the lines of “This could never happen to me.” Though always looking out for others, we sure thought it never could…

The major cause of bankruptcy, if not homelessness, here in the States is the lack of a working healthcare system. To us, it defines Sadism, but forward we march. If we’re lucky in any way, it’s that my wife is absolutely unstoppable, tough as tungsten nails, nobody’s got any business climbing mountains after what she’s endured by said “healthcare.”

https://ericwunrow.p...com/about/index

[cedricselzer]

If someone could post or send me Innes's tribute to Jimmy I would love to read it. Innes was always good value entertainment and great fun to be with. He was the first driver to win a F1 GP  for Team Lotus and was also president of the BRDC from 1992-1993. During this time he encouraged  mechanics of the 60' and 70's to become members. Bob Dance springs to mind. He died of cancer in 1993. I attended  his funeral with about 100 other mourners at a country church in Berkshire.  A lone piper played during the service. I was sitting next to Frank Sytner who was in tears. When I looked around there was not a dry eye in the church. Me included. Unfortunately those type of characters have gone forever in motor racing.

[RobertE]

I recall Walter Hayes gave him a (charitable?) non-exec Directorship at the rescued Aston Martin, which was when I met him; he was pleasant enough, but of course I didn't know him as others clearly did! I'm very pleased that his daughter is well...

[marksixman]

If someone could post or send me Innes's tribute to Jimmy I would love to read it. 

Have PM'd you Cedric.

[cedricselzer]

Thanks. I sent you a separate Email.

[Doug Nye]

For many years Innes did retain a sometimes outspoken bitterness towards Colin Chapman which could resurface at quite unexpected moments.  This was a legacy to the way he was sacked in 1961 - not knowing about it, because Colin would not tell him to his face, until that year's London Motor Show when he heard the bad news from others.  Colin was surprisingly averse to such personal confrontation, and often detailed others - his father, Stan - team 'manager' Andrew Ferguson - senior mechanic Dick Scammell - to do an unpalatable job he could not bring himself to do.  It was both a character weakness and an example of a soft side to his complex personality...but what he always sought was a winning advantage.  If he could achieve that while others experienced the grittyness it was fine. And he saw huge potential in jettisoning Innes to concentrate effort upon Jim Clark.

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 29 December 2023 - 18:15.

[Vitesse2]

If someone could post or send me Innes's tribute to Jimmy I would love to read it.

https://forums.autos...ed/#entry788925

[wheadon1985]

I've got a "Stirling Moss's driving makes my willy tingle" t-shirt.

[amerikalei]

https://forums.autos...ed/#entry788925

Thank you. 

[E1pix]

I've got a "Stirling Moss's driving makes my willy tingle" t-shirt.

I can’t decide which to *not* wear first; yours or a “I find James Hunt extremely attractive and am letting you know” shirt (and matching ensemble).

[Rupertlt1]

Early days: https://forums.autos...upert-robinson/

 

RGDS RLT

[GLaird]

 

I've got a "Stirling Moss's driving makes my willy tingle" t-shirt

 

Is there a ladies version? Just curious.

[10kDA]

Is there a ladies version? Just curious.

Swap the "t" and the "w".