949 replies to this topic

[MKSixer]

The year has turned and now we begin anew with George and Lewis soon to be at the helm of the W-15.  They are even in season performance at 1-1.  This is the tie breaking season!  Will George prevail... Will Lewis prevail...

 

Will they fix their horrendous pit stops? Will they apply better strategic thinking?

 

Only time will tell!!

 

What say you all?

[Risil]

Er, when's the first test?

[Clatter]

Er, when's the first test?

 

Bahrain 21st Feb, 3 days. The GP is the following week.

[FirstnameLastname]

Er, when's the first test?

First last and only test is the weekend before the Bahrain Grand Prix. And the test is in Bahrain.

[lewislorenzo]

Expecting it to be similar as the past 2 years with it being close in qualifying and Lewis being much faster in the majority of races.

Edited by lewislorenzo, 02 January 2024 - 22:17.

[Brian60]

The year has turned and now we begin anew with George and Lewis soon to be at the helm of the W-15.  They are even in season performance at 1-1.  This is the tie breaking season!  Will George prevail... Will Lewis prevail...

 

Will they fix their horrendous pit stops? Will they apply better strategic thinking?

 

Only time will tell!!

 

What say you all?

Not quite, it could only be a tie break season is one or the other were leaving. Otherwise its just George or Lewis taking a season lead over the other. Pedantic I know, but hey.............

[sheSgoTthElooK]

I'm curious. 

 

Surprise me.

[mstar]

I just think George just needs to stop trying so hard and focusing only on Lewis.  He just needs to try ignore lewis and do his own thing.  Lewis sees the bigger picture and doesn't concern himself as much with what George is doing.  

 

George needs to bag these points for the WCC.  If George can get consistent and bag lots of points and work on that consistency which the great drivers have every race, he be on the way to beat lewis.  

Edited by mstar, 04 January 2024 - 09:46.

[KWSN - DSM]

I expect Ferrari and Mercedes to be more or less equal over the season with Red Bull in shape of Verstappen still being dominant.

[ForzaFormula]

I just think George just needs to stop trying so hard and focusing only on Lewis.  He just needs to try ignore lewis and do his own thing.  Lewis sees the bigger picture and doesn't concern himself as much with what George is doing.  

 

George needs to bag these points for the WCC.  If George can get consistent and bag lots of points and work on that consistency which the great drivers have every race, he be on the way to beat lewis.  

He already proven he can do that last season and beat Lewis in his first season against the 7 times world champ, we are yet to see them both with a constent car and being able to challenge for wins yet, which is when we will really see if George can take it to Lewis, but there is always something wrong every weekend with this team these days.

 

It really depends on much the team can improve for both drivers not just George, the car is so inconsistent usually that most weekends if not all there is always one driver that is not happy with something about the car and struggles with something, the team must improve the car in terms of its sensitivity to slight changes and work on making sure it works for both drivers every weekend, and get on top of their tactics and really slow pit stops.

 

George is the least of the teams worries in 2024.

[mstar]

He already proven he can do that last season and beat Lewis in his first season against the 7 times world champ, 

 

not really if you analyse closely the results in a straight fight pace vs pace lewis was superior in races and clawed back something like 5-0 qualy deficit to beat george in qualy in 2022.  

The 10 race run mid to late season in 2022 he scored more points than anyone other than max.  My point is George yes he is quick but lets analyse the details and yes the points total say george out-scored lewis but the details you will see lewis had a lot of silly races where he was out of position/luck etc.  Pace vs pace lewis in races was superior.  Georges first half of the season was the only reason he outscored lewis.  When the car got better the last 10 races lewis was superior.  

[ForzaFormula]

not really if you analyse closely the results in a straight fight pace vs pace lewis was superior in races and clawed back something like 5-0 qualy deficit to beat george in qualy in 2022.
The 10 race run mid to late season in 2022 he scored more points than anyone other than max. My point is George yes he is quick but lets analyse the details and yes the points total say george out-scored lewis but the details you will see lewis had a lot of silly races where he was out of position/luck etc. Pace vs pace lewis in races was superior. Georges first half of the season was the only reason he outscored lewis. When the car got better the last 10 races lewis was superior.

Russell was easily faster last race of season we can all make excuses but Without complicating things and making excuses for each driver he has done a fine job since he came to the sport and has shown all the right potential to lead Mercedes once Hamilton retires.



Race Starts - 44
Qualifying - Hamilton 23 - 21 Russell

Race - Hamilton 25 - 19 Russell
Points - Hamilton 474 - 450 Russell
Seasons - Hamilton 1 - 1 Russell

That is pretty damn good from Russell vs a 7 time world champion, who is considered one of the greatest of all time, in a team he has won 6 world titles and made his home, and we know how tough of a team mate Hamilton is to go up against, probably the toughest of them all.

Edited by ForzaFormula, 06 January 2024 - 22:26.

[baddog]

not really if you analyse closely the results in a straight fight pace vs pace lewis was superior in races and clawed back something like 5-0 qualy deficit to beat george in qualy in 2022.  

The 10 race run mid to late season in 2022 he scored more points than anyone other than max.  My point is George yes he is quick but lets analyse the details and yes the points total say george out-scored lewis but the details you will see lewis had a lot of silly races where he was out of position/luck etc.  Pace vs pace lewis in races was superior.  Georges first half of the season was the only reason he outscored lewis.  When the car got better the last 10 races lewis was superior.  

 

I just think you do Lewis a disservice by trying to relitigate the times he has been beaten. His actual record stands on its merits as the most successful driver so far in history. He HAS been beaten 3 times by teammates in the WDC, but so what no-one is perfect. Leave 'arguing with the ref' for the losers?

[BleuMurmure]

I just think you do Lewis a disservice by trying to relitigate the times he has been beaten. His actual record stands on its merits as the most successful driver so far in history. He HAS been beaten 3 times by teammates in the WDC, but so what no-one is perfect. Leave 'arguing with the ref' for the losers?

 

Rosberg, Button and Russell. That's some nice company.

George might have one WDC in himself after all..

[P123]

Rosberg, Button and Russell. That's some nice company.

George might have one WDC in himself after all..

 

I'm sure he has more than one in him, with the right machinery (and teammate!).  His reputation did take a bit of a hit last season as he squandered away a lot of points.  But that sort of thing is easier to fix than lack of pace.

[Boxerevo]

39 years for our Lewis.

[lewislorenzo]

I just think you do Lewis a disservice by trying to relitigate the times he has been beaten. His actual record stands on its merits as the most successful driver so far in history. He HAS been beaten 3 times by teammates in the WDC, but so what no-one is perfect. Leave 'arguing with the ref' for the losers?

He has been up against more quality drivers compared to other drivers on the grid…

[ForzaFormula]

He has been up against more quality drivers compared to other drivers on the grid…

He has faced the toughest of all of them on the grid and he thrives on it and is again up facing a future world champion who again is no easy opponent to beat like a perez or bottas.

[mstar]

He has been up against more quality drivers compared to other drivers on the grid…

 

Not to mention he has always insisted to his team for equal equipment, no preferential treatment, and he has NO veto on a teammate -he beat all his teammates fair and square.  

 

How many other drivers actually say they like to be max's teammate and beat him IF he was given equal cars.  

Edited by mstar, 08 January 2024 - 12:24.

[eab]

Why should one talk about a non-merc car and a non-merc driver in the 

2024 AMG Mercedes-Petronas F1 Team Thread?

 

It's off topic and it's been made clear it's against the Forum rules.

It's just the first part of page 1 and this thread has already been infiltrated, yet again.

[Ivanhoe]

Post removed and edited. Like eab said, this is the Mercedes thread, no need to bring in Verstappen, Perez or Red Bull Racing in here, no matter how tempting it may be for some of you. Stay on topic please.

[baddog]

He has been up against more quality drivers compared to other drivers on the grid…

 

While I think this is reasonable WRT Max at least, RB being RB about it, its not quite THAT great an array of teammates.

 

Fernando was a great opponent of course (but that was his first year) and Jenson was pretty serious, Nico (Who is being rated precisely BECAUSE he beat Lewis once) and Valtteri weren't exactly seen as absolutely top tier at the time, pretty comparable to Daniel or Carlos. Heikki proved to be a busted flush. Bringing George in shows the team are serious though I agree, so facing good teammates is a plus to his rep.

[P123]

 

Why should one talk about a non-merc car and a non-merc driver in the 

2024 AMG Mercedes-Petronas F1 Team Thread?

 

It's off topic and it's been made clear it's against the Forum rules.

It's just the first part of page 1 and this thread has already been infiltrated, yet again.

 

 

It's definitely the off-season.  Not much to talk about!

[Speedometer]

While I think this is reasonable WRT Max at least, RB being RB about it, its not quite THAT great an array of teammates.

 

Fernando was a great opponent of course (but that was his first year) and Jenson was pretty serious, Nico (Who is being rated precisely BECAUSE he beat Lewis once) and Valtteri weren't exactly seen as absolutely top tier at the time, pretty comparable to Daniel or Carlos. Heikki proved to be a busted flush. Bringing George in shows the team are serious though I agree, so facing good teammates is a plus to his rep.

I think Nico's reputation improved after beating Schumacher 3-0.  Easy to forget that Nico was favoured by many to beat Lewis at the start of the hybrid era.

[KWSN - DSM]

I think Nico's reputation improved after beating Schumacher 3-0.  Easy to forget that Nico was favoured by many to beat Lewis at the start of the hybrid era.

 

Allow me to say huh???

[MKSixer]

Allow me to say huh???

Yes he was.  He was the, Intelligent Driver and it was thought that Lewis would struggle in the turbo-hybrid era.  It turned out the opposite was true and Lewis was more adept at fuel as well as tire management.  It all culminated with the fabled, "dossier", of Lewis's data provided to Nico at Nico's behest. 

[Boxerevo]

Yes he was.  He was the, Intelligent Driver and it was thought that Lewis would struggle in the turbo-hybrid era.  It turned out the opposite was true and Lewis was more adept at fuel as well as tire management.  It all culminated with the fabled, "dossier", of Lewis's data provided to Nico at Nico's behest. 

2014 Malaysian Grand Prix. Lewis was much faster and using less fuel.

 

Lewis had to win 4 consecutive races to close the gap by that DNF on Australia. Then it came Monaco qualifying and Nico antics.

 

A decade ago already.

Edited by Boxerevo, 09 January 2024 - 06:34.

[gillesfan76]

While I think this is reasonable WRT Max at least, RB being RB about it, its not quite THAT great an array of teammates.

 

Fernando was a great opponent of course (but that was his first year) and Jenson was pretty serious, Nico (Who is being rated precisely BECAUSE he beat Lewis once) and Valtteri weren't exactly seen as absolutely top tier at the time, pretty comparable to Daniel or Carlos. Heikki proved to be a busted flush. Bringing George in shows the team are serious though I agree, so facing good teammates is a plus to his rep.

 

I’d agree about Valtteri and Heikki, but I think you’re falling into the trap of downplaying Nico precisely BECAUSE he was beaten by Lewis twice. Nico was an incredible driver, right from the get go. Had a huge reputation when he even first came into the sport, was immediately quick but made some mistakes. A very quick, analytical driver but wasn’t top tier at wheel to wheel. I’d put him in the same category as Vettel, who funnily enough is a 4 x WDC. Would’ve been very interesting to have seen an experienced Rosberg partnered up with Vettel at Red Bull from 2009 to 2014.

[baddog]

I’d agree about Valtteri and Heikki, but I think you’re falling into the trap of downplaying Nico precisely BECAUSE he was beaten by Lewis twice. Nico was an incredible driver, right from the get go. Had a huge reputation when he even first came into the sport, was immediately quick but made some mistakes. A very quick, analytical driver but wasn’t top tier at wheel to wheel. I’d put him in the same category as Vettel, who funnily enough is a 4 x WDC. Would’ve been very interesting to have seen an experienced Rosberg partnered up with Vettel at Red Bull from 2009 to 2014.

 

I think Nico was very good, certainly speed and technically. He always suffered in the fight though, and had some mental issues. I don't remember a lot of Lewis fans singing his praises at the time though..

[ForzaFormula]

I think Nico was very good, certainly speed and technically. He always suffered in the fight though, and had some mental issues. I don't remember a lot of Lewis fans singing his praises at the time though..

Rosberg developed into a fine driver with ultimate pace to go against any of the best in f1 but yes he wasn't the best in one on one race battles but his speed and dedication he took to.beat the best was an incredible feat which he could not carry on with.

[Timorous]

I think Nico was very good, certainly speed and technically. He always suffered in the fight though, and had some mental issues. I don't remember a lot of Lewis fans singing his praises at the time though..

 

I don't think he had mental issues.

 

Just look at 2016. Sure if you look at it from an overall performance perspective Lewis was the better driver as he was in 14 and 15. Lewis had worse reliability and was more impacted by the dodgy clutch which gave Nico a window of opportunity to get the title.

 

Grabbing that opportunity still required Nico turned up at every race and give 100% and not wilt at all through the season. He had to be his very best at every single session to have a chance of taking advantage of the opportunity luck had given him. Nico did that with some great drives. If Nico had allowed his head to drop and gone and done a Perez or done what Bottas usually did Lewis would have won 2016. It would have been so easy for Nico to squander the chance he was given when you factor in the pressure he would have been under. There is zero doubt in my mind he knew after Malaysia that this was his one real chance to get a WDC. He knew on equal footing he just did not have the same average performance level as Lewis so he had this single shot to achieve his dream and he did. In all honesty it showed far more mental strength than Max did in 2021. Look at how Max lost the plot in the last 4 races due to the pressure, if Nico had done that he loses the title, he didn't wilt though, he did exactly what he had to do to succeed. So yes it took luck to give him the chance but it took hard graft to be at peak performance session after session to actually take it.

 

It may have required a level of mental fortitude that was unsustainable which is why he retired but when I look back on it as a Lewis fan you can't help but be a bit impressed with how well he managed to cope. Also go look at the post race interview in AD 2016 vs the ones in the run up. He physically looks lighter, like you physically see the difference in him from that pressure being lifted. 

Edited by Timorous, 10 January 2024 - 10:33.

[DW46]

I don't think he had mental issues.

Just look at 2016. Sure if you look at it from an overall performance perspective Lewis was the better driver as he was in 14 and 15. Lewis had worse reliability and was more impacted by the dodgy clutch which gave Nico a window of opportunity to get the title.

Grabbing that opportunity still required Nico turned up at every race and give 100% and not wilt at all through the season. He had to be his very best at every single session to have a chance of taking advantage of the opportunity luck had given him. Nico did that with some great drives. If Nico had allowed his head to drop and gone and done a Perez or done what Bottas usually did Lewis would have won 2016. It would have been so easy for Nico to squander the chance he was given when you factor in the pressure he would have been under. There is zero doubt in my mind he knew after Malaysia that this was his one real chance to get a WDC. He knew on equal footing he just did not have the same average performance level as Lewis so he had this single shot to achieve his dream and he did. In all honesty it showed far more mental strength than Max did in 2021. Look at how Max lost the plot in the last 4 races due to the pressure, if Nico had done that he loses the title, he didn't wilt though, he did exactly what he had to do to succeed. So yes it took luck to give him the chance but it took hard graft to be at peak performance session after session to actually take it.

It may have required a level of mental fortitude that was unsustainable which is why he retired but when I look back on it as a Lewis fan you can't help but be a bit impressed with how well he managed to cope. Also go look at the post race interview in AD 2016 vs the ones in the run up. He physically looks lighter, like you physically see the difference in him from that pressure being lifted.

I supported Rosberg from 14-16, this is exactly how it felt as a fan. If he’d have fluffed one start he’d have been out. Pressure was insane in Brazil as he’d struggled in the wet all year having previously been passable.

Singapore was also a stunning performance. His pass on Verstappen in AD16 and his pole lap at Hockenheim 👍

One of the nice things about supporting Hamilton in recent years has been seeing how much he learned from those years and applied it to become better than in his earlier seasons.

Edited by DW46, 10 January 2024 - 16:11.

[Dalton007]

I'm excited by this battle between Lewis and George.   I hope George has made a step-up and figured out how to get more out of the car consistently during a race. Iron out those silly mistakes.

[lewislorenzo]

I hope George has made a step-up and figured out how to get more out of the car consistently during a race.

Easier said then done mate

[Boxerevo]

Not in the mood to discuss about our drivers, i really believe they are fine.

 

We need a car again guys, a car that could always be there in every track if something happens to that blue rocket.

[gillesfan76]

I think Nico was very good, certainly speed and technically. He always suffered in the fight though, and had some mental issues. I don't remember a lot of Lewis fans singing his praises at the time though..

 

I don’t disagree but I’m really not sure why you bring in “a lot of Lewis fans”. I wasn’t one of them, and it’s also more likely a few very vocal Lewis fans doing what they’re doing now with George. You know, there are a LOT of Lewis fans so even 1% of those who grumble irrationally here may seem like a lot, but it’s not really that many. So ignoring the irrelevant subject of Lewis fans and just talking about the quality of a driver, Nico was a great driver. I think your post could just as easily have replaced Nico with 4 x WDC Vettel and still be on target. i.e:

 

I think Vettel was very good, certainly speed and technically. He always suffered in the fight though, and had some mental issues. I don't remember a lot of Lewis fans singing his praises at the time though.

[gillesfan76]

I don't think he had mental issues.

 

Just look at 2016. Sure if you look at it from an overall performance perspective Lewis was the better driver as he was in 14 and 15. Lewis had worse reliability and was more impacted by the dodgy clutch which gave Nico a window of opportunity to get the title.

 

Grabbing that opportunity still required Nico turned up at every race and give 100% and not wilt at all through the season. He had to be his very best at every single session to have a chance of taking advantage of the opportunity luck had given him. Nico did that with some great drives. If Nico had allowed his head to drop and gone and done a Perez or done what Bottas usually did Lewis would have won 2016. It would have been so easy for Nico to squander the chance he was given when you factor in the pressure he would have been under. There is zero doubt in my mind he knew after Malaysia that this was his one real chance to get a WDC. He knew on equal footing he just did not have the same average performance level as Lewis so he had this single shot to achieve his dream and he did. In all honesty it showed far more mental strength than Max did in 2021. Look at how Max lost the plot in the last 4 races due to the pressure, if Nico had done that he loses the title, he didn't wilt though, he did exactly what he had to do to succeed. So yes it took luck to give him the chance but it took hard graft to be at peak performance session after session to actually take it.

 

It may have required a level of mental fortitude that was unsustainable which is why he retired but when I look back on it as a Lewis fan you can't help but be a bit impressed with how well he managed to cope. Also go look at the post race interview in AD 2016 vs the ones in the run up. He physically looks lighter, like you physically see the difference in him from that pressure being lifted. 

 

I highly disagree with the way you’ve phrased “Lewis…was more impacted by the dodgy clutch”. There was nothing dodgy about it. It just more skill on the driver to get the launch right and Nico simply focused and learned it faster than Lewis. Not by as much of a margin as is touted but Nico got better launches. I suspect that Lewis didn’t focus on it early as he just thought he’d overhaul Nico in the races as easily as he did in 2014 and 2015. But he didn’t. While Lewis was a bit better performer across 2016, and suffered worse reliability, he really did let himself down with his starts and that could have made the difference between winning and losing the title. Reliability has and is (decreasingly so) always been a part of motor racing.

[lewislorenzo]

Not in the mood to discuss about our drivers, i really believe they are fine.

We need a car again guys, a car that could always be there in every track if something happens to that blue rocket.

I agree but also need better strategy and pit stops

[Brian60]

I don't think he had mental issues.

 

Just look at 2016. Sure if you look at it from an overall performance perspective Lewis was the better driver as he was in 14 and 15. Lewis had worse reliability and was more impacted by the dodgy clutch which gave Nico a window of opportunity to get the title.

 

This exactly.......He was at the top of his game but still had to rely on two things to win the WDC, 1st the so called out braking himself at Monaco to take pole and the several breakdowns only Lewis' car seemed to suffer that season. I take nothing away from Nico, but it does go to show just how difficult it is for any driver when faced with an in form Lewis.

[thefinalapex]

This exactly.......He was at the top of his game but still had to rely on two things to win the WDC, 1st the so called out braking himself at Monaco to take pole and the several breakdowns only Lewis' car seemed to suffer that season. I take nothing away from Nico, but it does go to show just how difficult it is for any driver when faced with an in form Lewis.

The outbraking was in 2014 not 2016, in 2016 he let lewis past in the race, the race where RB forgot to put tyres on at Ricciardo’s pitstop.

[KWSN - DSM]

This exactly.......He was at the top of his game but still had to rely on two things to win the WDC, 1st the so called out braking himself at Monaco to take pole and the several breakdowns only Lewis' car seemed to suffer that season. I take nothing away from Nico, but it does go to show just how difficult it is for any driver when faced with an in form Lewis.

 

Is this really the thread where we once again disagree over the 2016 season?

[MKSixer]

Is this really the thread where we once again disagree over the 2016 season?

Indeed.  A reminder:

 

This is the 

2024 AMG Mercedes-Petronas F1 Team Thread

[Timorous]

I agree but also need better strategy and pit stops

Merc have needed that for a decade yet it has not materialised.

I have said it before but there is no way Merc put together a win streak like RB managed in 23. They make too many operational mistakes to achieve it.

[Boxerevo]

Merc have needed that for a decade yet it has not materialised.

I have said it before but there is no way Merc put together a win streak like RB managed in 23. They make too many operational mistakes to achieve it.

Even with Hamilton and Nico, we got stuck on 10 consecutive wins.

 

Red Bull did 15 consecutive wins.

 

If that Red Bull worked on Singapore, we would be talking about 18 consecutive wins by Max alone and a whole season for Red Bull.

Edited by Boxerevo, 12 January 2024 - 20:06.

[baddog]

I don’t disagree but I’m really not sure why you bring in “a lot of Lewis fans”. I wasn’t one of them, and it’s also more likely a few very vocal Lewis fans doing what they’re doing now with George. You know, there are a LOT of Lewis fans so even 1% of those who grumble irrationally here may seem like a lot, but it’s not really that many. 

 

I think you read my comment backwards. I said I DONT remember a lot of Lewis fans singing Nico's praises. I didn't say a lot of Lewis fans did something.

[baddog]

I don't think he had mental issues.

 

 

Fair enough. What I meant was he had a bad case of the not rare syndrome of being obsessed with fighting his teammate much harder than he fought other people (Did this to all his teammates), and he panicked/flaked in close combat numerous times, doing some pretty silly defensive moves that he wouldn't have done if he had not lost focus. 'Mental issues' was perhaps not a good way to phrase it.

[gillesfan76]

I think you read my comment backwards. I said I DONT remember a lot of Lewis fans singing Nico's praises. I didn't say a lot of Lewis fans did something.

 

Yeah you said some words, so what did you actually mean by saying you don’t remember something? 

 

Anyhoo, what you do or don’t remember about a “lot”of Lewis fans, and what a “lot” of Lewis fans did or didn’t do is entirely irrelevant to what some forum members here - you, me, and others think of Nico now. Unless you have some sort of direct proof that the same people that you DON’T remember singing Nico’s praises back then are now singing Nico’s praises so you can claim some sort of change of tune assertion to those people who are currently saying that Nico is underrated and rather good   . I’m entirely SURE you understand exactly what I’m saying so I won’t labour the point any further provided you don’t continue digging a silly hole for yourself….

 

Coming back to what I, and some others here think, which is that Nico is vastly underrated and that he shares many traits with 4 x WDC Vettel.

Edited by gillesfan76, 12 January 2024 - 22:46.

[baddog]

Yeah you said some words, so what did you actually mean by saying you don’t remember something? 

 

Anyhoo, what you do or don’t remember about a “lot”of Lewis fans, and what a “lot” of Lewis fans did or didn’t do is entirely irrelevant to what some forum members here - you, me, and others think of Nico now. Unless you have some sort of direct proof that the same people that you DON’T remember singing Nico’s praises back then are now singing Nico’s praises so you can claim some sort of change of tune assertion to those people who are currently saying that Nico is underrated and rather good   . I’m entirely SURE you understand exactly what I’m saying so I won’t labour the point any further provided you don’t continue digging a silly hole for yourself….

 

Coming back to what I, and some others here think, which is that Nico is vastly underrated and that he shares many traits with 4 x WDC Vettel.

 

I'm not sure what is confusing, because my use of English is not unclear. Maybe you are getting a bit worked up over a perceived insult or something?

 

And yes, I do think that there are some posters here who have changed their minds over time, and its a bit convenient. I'm not talking about your personally by the way, but going back to the 2016 threads it got quite nasty.

Edited by baddog, 13 January 2024 - 03:16.

[gillesfan76]

Why do you feel it relevant to bring up some Lewis fans who may have changed their minds over time? Why is it convenient? Are people not allowed to change their minds over time, or should they simply stick to their incorrect previous position?

 

I don’t find it confusing that you bring up Lewis fans into this discussion, I just find it strange. It’s also counterproductive to having an intelligent discussion about the merits of Rosberg’s skill as a driver and his corresponding reputation, if you simply write off opinions because you perceive some people have changed their mind. You say you’re not talking about me personally, yet you used a reply to my post to bring up Lewis fans. I’m not getting worked up, but I keep repeating my point that your bringing Lewis fans into the discussion, and specifically in reply to me, is entirely irrelevant and you haven’t explained why it is relevant.

 

Maybe we’ll swap roles. What would your thoughts be in the following exchange:

Me: Alonso is overrated. He was matched by a rookie and his team mates before and after weren’t top tier.

You: Sure he was matched by a rookie, but he had Kimi as a team mate and dominated him, he also beat Button - both WDCs. He gets speed out of any car.

Me: He was good, but I don’t remember a lot of Kimi fans singing his praises at the time though….

You; “……………..” ?

[baddog]

lets just let this one go, we are not getting anywhere and are ruining the 2024 team thread.