33 replies to this topic

[just me again]

I was driving in snowy weather the other day. I was impressed with the symmetry of the snow on the front after the drive. especially the snow on the numberplate. It is hard pressed like a block of ice and have a perfect "roof top" form. I think the snow highlights the cars good aerodynamic shape .

[desmo]

Free Flo-Viz!

[ARTGP]

The facelifted model 3 is so much better looking to me. 

[404KF2]

Yes that nose is much better.... though it still seems inspired by the Renault Caravelle.

[gruntguru]

And of course Tesla claim reduced drag for the facelifted Model 3.

[mariner]

In those long ago days before CFD and easy wind tunnel  access the "boffins" at the UK MIRA research centre used to photograph new cars arriving for performance data if it  was wet day.

 

A free supply of real world streamlines.

 

MIRA  also had clever little   optical gadget which measured understeer with no electronics. It clipped to the part opened inside window and the cross hairs were aimed at the centre pole of a skid circle as the car went round and round. As the driver speeded up the passenger moved the cross hairs to keep the post lined up. A scale on the mount showed the required deviation which was the yaw  angle. The change in yaw with speed indicted understeer/oversteer. 

 

BTW I think Tesla's aero. work is quite deep -  apparently to service the Model 3 rear brakes you have to remove some aero deflector tabs buried under the car.

Edited by mariner, 22 January 2024 - 11:21.

[just me again]

Yes that nose is much better.... though it still seems inspired by the Renault Caravelle.

 

Now i want a Caravelle Cabriolet to compliment the Tesla :-)

[Greg Locock]

Rain - if you have a pre 1990s car you'll see the rain streaming along the side windows in a very strange fashion, with pulses and waves and all sorts of randomness. In your 2000+ cars you'll see the rain just tracks parallel to the ground. This is not a coincidence.

[404KF2]

And when you open the door in said rain, you'll get wetter in the aeromobile! No rain gutters......

[Greg Locock]

Oddly, for the same reason. Windnoise.

[404KF2]

My 404C has a good compromise: no gutter up the A-pillar, but one above the door and down the C pillar.

[cbo]

BTW I think Tesla's aero. work is quite deep - apparently to service the Model 3 rear brakes you have to remove some aero deflector tabs buried under the car.

I wouldn't be surprised - the range of a Hyundai Ioniq 6 will drop about 12% if you change the 18" wheels for 20" wheels because the aerodynamic ducts for the front wheels are designed for 18" wheels.

[404KF2]

20" wheels....good grief. Hello pothole damage and shitty ride.

[Lee Nicolle]

And when you open the door in said rain, you'll get wetter in the aeromobile! No rain gutters......

When these no gutter cars came out I thought these cars would be a soggy mess. There was a [pre release] Fairmont at the motorshow and you could see around the door frame. Having owned literally hundreds of these cars I have never had one leak there. Around the screens yes but not around the doors

[Lee Nicolle]

I wouldn't be surprised - the range of a Hyundai Ioniq 6 will drop about 12% if you change the 18" wheels for 20" wheels because the aerodynamic ducts for the front wheels are designed for 18" wheels.

The 18" and 20" wheels should have the same tyre rollout and offset so it should make little difference. As for huge wheels? On an everyday roadcar? Dumb and dumber. Go to any swap meet and count the big wheels in sets of 2 & 3!  Oh so many of them hexagon shaped or simply broken. I have half a dozen currently on the scrap pile. Worth keeping as they are heavy and the price of scrap alloy can be good.

[cbo]

20" wheels....good grief. Hello pothole damage and shitty ride.

Indeed. And still 20" and even 21" wheels are options for many cars today including Teslas - and people are buying them.

[Greg Locock]

As I said before - you want 100 mm of sidewall. So if you need a 20" wheel because you like big shiny things, that is a 28" OD tire. Door seal design took a huge step forward in the 90s, typically I think they have 3 sealing elements (not my field, I do the muddy bits). The drivers for that were wind noise, dust ingress, and getting rid of the bloke at the end of the line who had to bend the window frame to get a good fit (seriously).

[Nathan]

I wouldn't be surprised - the range of a Hyundai Ioniq 6 will drop about 12% if you change the 18" wheels for 20" wheels because the aerodynamic ducts for the front wheels are designed for 18" wheels.

 

I think this is something of a wives tale.  I'd wager the extra intertia and 3" (all around) of extra tire tread on the road has more to do with that 12%

[Canuck]

As I said before - you want 100 mm of sidewall. So if you need a 20" wheel because you like big shiny things, that is a 28" OD tire. Door seal design took a huge step forward in the 90s, typically I think they have 3 sealing elements (not my field, I do the muddy bits). The drivers for that were wind noise, dust ingress, and getting rid of the bloke at the end of the line who had to bend the window frame to get a good fit (seriously).

The factory big shiny things on my QX80 were quite a disappointment to ride with. Fortunately, stepping from those to an 295/70-18 is easily done and even within the strange Aussie tire size rule I saw somewhere (within 5% of OE diameter or something to that effect). We are much more cavalier with vehicle modifications here, so far.

[Greg Locock]

I didn't know about that rule. In practice you've got about 15mm all round for snow chain clearance etc, after that rubber hits metal somewhere. I've just wasted 10 minutes reading the NSW regs, yes, they are fairly cautious. I find it hard to believe some of the 4wds I see comply, I guess it's one of those cases where it only really matters after an accident for insurance purposes.

 

 

 

[GreenMachine]

... or when the copper pulls up a P-plater 

[Canuck]

So far we have no annual smog, no regular inspections, no enforcement of emissions control devices. There are two primary ways to attract vehicle-related enforcement attention: tinted driver/front passenger side windows and/or windshield; obnoxious exhaust noise levels though that tends to usually be of the motorcycle variety. We  have or had a fairly unhealthy street racing scene with wealthy children piling up M-series BMWs and Merc AMGs so that eventually got enough attention from the industrial part tenants that it's been largely shut down.

 

We do have odd rules around kit cars, requiring some level of Canadian-sourced major components or a percentage thereof however at least in my own province, we can still get a home-built vehicle registered so long as it meets the safety requirements. My motorcycle is a ground-up one-off with a provincial government-assigned VIN.

[404KF2]

Greater Vancouver got rid of the "City" (Provincial) test in 1983 in a fit of government cost cutting and it never came back. The closest successor to that was AirCare in 1992, which tested emissions only in the Greater Vancouver area. The failure rate was so low that too was abandoned in 2014.

 

My '66 404C has not been on the road since 1999 (and that was a day license) and after a thorough rebuild mostly by my amateur hands, it is licensable without any inspection whatsoever. Woo!

[Magoo]

According to an email pitch I got from Tesla the other day, the 2024 Tesla 3 RWD can be charged to 100 percent every day with no degradation in battery life. 

 

The recommendation for my 2020 Model 3 is to charge to 80 percent in regular use to prolong battery life, and charge to 100 percent for longer trips. 

[just me again]

It is because it is a LFP battery. But be careful. The battery comes with drawbacks. It needs to be hot to fastcharge and if it is cold it will not even homecharge before it is warmed a bit!!!

In cold climates. This require planning charging ahead. Fast charging maybe a minimum 1/2 hour ahead. (And it will only head for Tesla superchargers)!!!

[cbo]

It is because it is a LFP battery. But be careful. The battery comes with drawbacks. It needs to be hot to fastcharge and if it is cold it will not even homecharge before it is warmed a bit!!!

In cold climates. This require planning charging ahead. Fast charging maybe a minimum 1/2 hour ahead. (And it will only head for Tesla superchargers)!!!

I would assume that the car preconditions the battery if the navigation is set to a charger? Or that you can start preconditioning manually?

[just me again]

Only via the Navigation. It only works for chargers the Navigation knows, which, ofcourse, is mainly Tesla chargers.
In cold weather you need to set the navigation around 1/2 hour before charging. It doesn't work if you only drive from home to the nearest charger!!

Edited by just me again, 27 February 2024 - 17:54.

[cbo]

Only via the Navigation. It only works for chargers the Navigation knows, which, ofcourse, is mainly Tesla chargers.
In cold weather you need to set the navigation around 1/2 hour before charging. It doesn't work if you only drive from home to the nearest charger!!

OK.

Other EV does a better job with preconditioning then.

But of course, they all need time to preheat the battery.

[Magoo]

It is because it is a LFP battery. But be careful. The battery comes with drawbacks. It needs to be hot to fastcharge and if it is cold it will not even homecharge before it is warmed a bit!!!

In cold climates. This require planning charging ahead. Fast charging maybe a minimum 1/2 hour ahead. (And it will only head for Tesla superchargers)!!!

 

Yes, the email implies that all Tesla 3 production in the USA is NFP, but I didn't know that. 

 

I don't have a problem with only visiting Superchargers. The other networks here in the States are notoriously unreliable, and they are outnumbered by Tesla stations anyway. 

[just me again]

I have just driven from Denmark to Bulgaria. A 3 day journey, which I believe is much easier and much more comfortable in a Tesla than in anything else.
It is fast on the Autobahn. The 90-180km/t acceleration is faster than most cars. The 180-90 deacceleration is enjoyable and easy. You just lift the throttle and the motor charges while braking :-)
You easily gets 300-350km on the 60kwh battery
At high speed there still is no wind noise and the car drives straight and reassuring. The aerodynamics keep the nose down.
But there are drawbacks:
-no traffic radio!! You can't get the radio to say traffic announcement!!
- No automatic transfer to the next station when the FM signal gets weak!!
- the GPS! It only shows a normal map. It doesn't!! show lanes when you come to traffic lights.
-when you are not using the GPS. You can see how many chargers are free at the Supercharger stations. But when you use the GPS. This information disappear. So you are unable to replan if all chargers are taken!!!
-the Auto pilot!! It often does not show the right speed
You can only activate the autopilot on the speed the car thinks you are allowed to drive and not the speed you are driving (if you drive slower than what the Tesla think you are allowed to drive)
It doesn't automatic change speed after the speed signs!
The Autopilot is way better in a VW product.

We did not wait anywhere to charge. But a few places was nearly full. So at these places there will be problems at summer traffic!
Luckily at most places there are other brands of chargers. So you just need to pay more if you don't want to wait.

If a VW had a better interior and charging infrastructure it would be better. Due to the superior autopilot. But Tesla wins because of.
-Dog mode :-)
-the roominess
-the charging network

I like my Tesla :-) and doesn't want another car. But I think it's important to tell about the glitches!
The most important glitch. If you want to drive manual. Buy a Tesla. If you want the car (Autopilot) to do the work. Buy a VW!! I think that is in contrary to what most believe!!

[Magoo]

I think some of these issues can be corrected in the settings. The speed offsets, etc. 

[just me again]

Speed offset doesn't solve the Autopilot issue.

In a "Normal" car you can either select the speed you driving by pressing "set" or select the speed last used or what the car thinks is the speed limit by pressing "res"

In a Tesla you only have one button. if you drive slower than what the car thinks is the speed limit it selects the speed limit. If you drive faster, it selects the speed you drive. Often the car is wrong at roadworks! You get to scroll very fast when the car selects. 130 in a 50km/t zone!!

[Lee Nicolle]

I have just driven from Denmark to Bulgaria. A 3 day journey, which I believe is much easier and much more comfortable in a Tesla than in anything else.
It is fast on the Autobahn. The 90-180km/t acceleration is faster than most cars. The 180-90 deacceleration is enjoyable and easy. You just lift the throttle and the motor charges while braking :-)
You easily gets 300-350km on the 60kwh battery
At high speed there still is no wind noise and the car drives straight and reassuring. The aerodynamics keep the nose down.
But there are drawbacks:
-no traffic radio!! You can't get the radio to say traffic announcement!!
- No automatic transfer to the next station when the FM signal gets weak!!
- the GPS! It only shows a normal map. It doesn't!! show lanes when you come to traffic lights.
-when you are not using the GPS. You can see how many chargers are free at the Supercharger stations. But when you use the GPS. This information disappear. So you are unable to replan if all chargers are taken!!!
-the Auto pilot!! It often does not show the right speed
You can only activate the autopilot on the speed the car thinks you are allowed to drive and not the speed you are driving (if you drive slower than what the Tesla think you are allowed to drive)
It doesn't automatic change speed after the speed signs!
The Autopilot is way better in a VW product.

We did not wait anywhere to charge. But a few places was nearly full. So at these places there will be problems at summer traffic!
Luckily at most places there are other brands of chargers. So you just need to pay more if you don't want to wait.

If a VW had a better interior and charging infrastructure it would be better. Due to the superior autopilot. But Tesla wins because of.
-Dog mode :-)
-the roominess
-the charging network

I like my Tesla :-) and doesn't want another car. But I think it's important to tell about the glitches!
The most important glitch. If you want to drive manual. Buy a Tesla. If you want the car (Autopilot) to do the work. Buy a VW!! I think that is in contrary to what most believe!!

300k here in Oz will get you nowhere. Europe does have some good roads [less so in the UK] but  with a short range between charging you get nowhere very fast. 

Doing some recent research,, Tasmania, the state often left off the botton of Oz, the smallest state is bigger than Holland or Belgium and a few other countries as well.

When travelling down the Birdsville track my Eastern European g/f said that we have driven through 3 Euro countries today. And she had driven most of Europe and found it too small!!  There is stations on the Birdsville track bigger than Euro countries.

Ofcourse most of the interior of Australia does not have electricity,, towns are often diesel generators. With these days some solar. Properties are all diesel generators.

So no good for city cars!!

[just me again]

Europe is a different place than Australia. On our jammed roads. 300-350km is enough between breaks.

At the moment the charging infrastructure suits the number of BEV's. So there is no waiting time.

I would not drive to Bulgaria in an ICE. The comfort are by far better in a BEV :-)