837 replies to this topic

[Rurouni]

I picked Albon since the question is basically about the driver that I want in Mercedes. I want him over any other driver simply because performance wise, although Max beaten him, his performance has been great since and I think he deserved a shot to be in a top team once more.

Having said that, if the question is about driver that I think would be Merc no.1 priority to get, it is Alonso. Alonso has proven again and again that he can perform, but one of the important thing in trying to get Alonso is not simply because of his performance but a matter of prestige. Russell is not there yet and obviously adding Albon is not really going to help in that department. The only stumbling block is the fact that Alonso I believe is contracted until 2025, but as we seen time a time again, contract can be broken with enough incentives and/or compensation. And honestly, I don't think Aston would oppose to that, especially with them using Honda engine in 2026 thus probably might be pressured to take Yuki. At least Aston now can say that they tried to keep Alonso but it is hard to keep him when he had an offer from Merc and at the same time Stroll Sr have a bit more reason to keep Stroll Jr in the seat.

 

Edit: just realized that Alonso is actually not contracted to Aston for 2025. Back then when  the news about him extending his contract, some speculated that it was until 2025 and I never really checked the news about it again. But apparently not. Right now, it would be no brainer for Merc to get Alonso and Alonso probably would accept it unless he get a very very very sweet offer from Aston.

Edited by Rurouni, 02 February 2024 - 11:28.

[Chubby_Deuce]

Thank god Andretti didn't get in or they'd be looking for a pay driver to make ends meet.

[RoadWarrior]

Ocon a sensible option. I mean, pre-season is always fun, but I felt inside that 'killer joke' skit from Flying Circus.

[Organic]

RoadWarrior, on 02 Feb 2024 - 07:32, said:

Ocon a sensible option. I mean, pre-season is always fun, but I felt inside that 'killer joke' skit from Flying Circus.

You don't want to watch Ocon and Russell at each others' throats?

For me he's sensible because he won't be fast enough to trouble Russell and he's always been under Toto's management so he will behave

[ANF]

krapmeister, on 02 Feb 2024 - 02:31, said:

If Merc comes calling Albon should jump at the chance. If Antonelli is as good as the hype suggests, Albon may very well get his stock knocked down by the young gun. Better to leave Williams and try his hand at becoming top dog at Merc by beating Russell/having a shot at wins

Yeah, you're probably right.

[lustigson]

Ricciardo, anyone? 

[Taxi]

It's a tough one. If they can't get Piastri who is bay far the best prospect out there, it's has to be between Sainz, Ocon, Gasly, Albon.  Alonso will be 43/4 and it's Alonso so I would stay away from him.  From the other 4 Sainz is pretty decent for a number 2 driver but I would like Ocon to take it. He's arrogant, fierce, stupid and toxic. He's a racer with all his virtues and flaws. He's a bit slower than Russel but will never accept it. That would be mega. 

 

All this if Kimi the young does not prove he is a star F2 in 2024, of course. 

[Beri]

lustigson, on 02 Feb 2024 - 09:33, said:

Ricciardo, anyone?

 

I think Mercedes has enough data via McLaren to evaluate Ricciardo. And I wouldnt be too surprised if he would be an actual option to Mercedes, But on the other hand. I wouldnt be too surprised as well if he turns out not to be.

[PayasYouRace]

RoadWarrior, on 02 Feb 2024 - 07:32, said:

Ocon a sensible option. I mean, pre-season is always fun, but I felt inside that 'killer joke' skit from Flying Circus.

I’m not sure I’d call a driver who in six full seasons has never beaten a teammate over a season that sensible a choice.

[krapmeister]

I don't see RIC leaving the RB family again - they were willing to take him back after the Mclaren disaster and he quite obviously appears happy and thankful to be back. VISACASHAPPRB (urgh) could turn out to be reasonably competitive if they start working closer with the main team - plus there is the chance (if he is good enough) for him to move into Perez's seat at the main team for 2025.

[Taxi]

His team mates were Perez (and he was indeed faster than Sergio) Alonso (one of the greats and he did allright) and Gasly (evenly matched but with 3 more retirements) He's decent and sometimes has jaw droping performances. 

Edited by Taxi, 02 February 2024 - 10:00.

[ArnageWRC]

Maro Engel......

[PayasYouRace]

Taxi, on 02 Feb 2024 - 10:00, said:

His team mates were Perez (and he was indeed faster than Sergio) Alonso (one of the greats and he did allright) and Gasly (evenly matched but with 3 more retirements) He's decent and sometimes has jaw droping performances.

I guess you’ve just named three drivers who’d be a more sensible choice than Ocon then. He was also teammate to Ricciardo, for what that’s worth.

[krapmeister]

ArnageWRC, on 02 Feb 2024 - 10:04, said:

Maro Engel......

Scott McLaughlin or Shane Van Gisbergen

[Heyli]

It'll probably end up being Ocon, which I personally find the boring option, but that's purely based on personal preference. Would like to see Albon get a shot. Alonso is of course also always a fun name for such moves, but I dont think that'll happen. 

[Muzzyf1]

Alonso

[krapmeister]

Taxi, on 02 Feb 2024 - 10:00, said:

His team mates were Perez (and he was indeed faster than Sergio) Alonso (one of the greats and he did allright) and Gasly (evenly matched but with 3 more retirements) He's decent and sometimes has jaw droping performances.

Jaw dropping?!?? The *very* occasional surprisingly good drive, but jaw dropping? No.

[jonklug]

Love Fernando, really do, he'd be super fun to watch in that Mercedes. But I do think it's time we actually give others a go in top teams. I'd rather them actually take the leap and put Antonelli in there directly in 2025 than going for Alonso. Or try to stick it to Ferrari and offer Leclerc. 

[KavB]

Norris would have been number 1 choice had he not just extended with McLaren. I thought it was silly to commit so early to a team which hasn't proved it can consistently win races.

 

I think the question mark is whether Mercedes have faith that Russell can win championships or not. He wasn't that convincing last season. If they do have faith in him then they will want to find someone in a supporting role, if not then they will want to find a lead driver.

 

I think only Alonso ticks that box. He might be getting too old, but I think he is worth the punt even if he is a short-term driver for 2 seasons before they are able to get someone younger like Piastri on board.

[Disgrace]

I can't see the appeal of Ocon. He's too disruptive, without the top-tier talent to back it up. Albon by contrast has earned another chance at or near the top, and doesn't come with that baggage.

[Organic]

Why not Gasly?

[Sterzo]

If nothing else, this thread illustrates that none of us will ever be a team principal. The reasons offered here for driver selection or rejection include:

 

"Marketing" (whatever that means); fitting the culture; not being fast enough to trouble Russell; once argued with another team principal; has been spoken of well; is friends with their other driver; his dad was quick.

 

I definitely couldn't replace Toto, but I suggest he'll choose the driver he believes will deliver results.

[Bendo]

Albon deserves a shot at it and don't think Williams would stand in his way if they come knocking.

Hes matured as a driver over the past couple of years and done some decent things with the Williams.

As always though, its hard to know the true level of a car, is Albon all that or was the Williams a better car than its given credit for.

[Beamer]

Taxi, on 02 Feb 2024 - 10:00, said:

His team mates were Perez (and he was indeed faster than Sergio) Alonso (one of the greats and he did allright) and Gasly (evenly matched but with 3 more retirements) He's decent and sometimes has jaw droping performances. 

 

And at the same time 2 out of those 3 are blamed for making Max look so good by just being not good enough to mount any challenge or even be a decent no2 (disclaimer: not my opinion).
So how's not even beating them a recommendation for ocon? 

[Marklar]

KavB, on 02 Feb 2024 - 10:17, said:

Norris would have been number 1 choice had he not just extended with McLaren. I thought it was silly to commit so early to a team which hasn't proved it can consistently win races.

 

I think the question mark is whether Mercedes have faith that Russell can win championships or not. He wasn't that convincing last season. If they do have faith in him then they will want to find someone in a supporting role, if not then they will want to find a lead driver.

 

I think only Alonso ticks that box. He might be getting too old, but I think he is worth the punt even if he is a short-term driver for 2 seasons before they are able to get someone younger like Piastri on board.

Regardless of performance Alonso is the only option that can somewhat replace Hamilton marketing-wise as well, and if he hasnt lost too much also the one closest to replace him performance-wise. The top drivers are all sealed into long-term contracts and they have Kimi waiting in the wings (if he is good enough). Even if Alonso declines into being a midfield driver he would be still a good enough choice.

It all depends on a) whether Alonso wants, b) whether they want a strong driver or completely settle on Russell as their #1, c) if they want to save the high wages

[JeePee]

cbo, on 01 Feb 2024 - 20:51, said:

Schumacher- because I'd like to see him in a proper car and find out whether he floats or sinks.

He would sink.

 

Deep.

[Organic]

Schumacher had an alright 2021, a disastrous 2022 with a huge amount of crash damage, two years off and then you're suggesting to put him in a Merc? Is there something in the water

[ANF]

Disgrace, on 02 Feb 2024 - 10:24, said:

I can't see the appeal of Ocon. He's too disruptive, without the top-tier talent to back it up. Albon by contrast has earned another chance at or near the top, and doesn't come with that baggage.

It would be great to see Albon at Mercedes. This 80-minute interview really shows what a likeable guy he is. Some 15 minutes in he says he was doing simulator services for Mercedes during his season in F2, before he was signed by Toro Rosso.

[Risil]

Is Alonso under contract for 2025?

[Rurouni]

Risil, on 02 Feb 2024 - 11:07, said:

Is Alonso under contract for 2025?

I thought he was, or maybe Aston Martin had an option to extend to 2025, but apparently not. He is not contracted for 2025. Alonso did say that he planned to extend it but with Lewis moving to Ferrari I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso is interested moving to Merc.

Edited by Rurouni, 02 February 2024 - 11:21.

[Nobody]

[MrMonaco]

There's only 2 drivers to remain or even upgrade the quality of the team for Merc - Max and Charles but at the moment both are out of reach. Out of more realistic prospects the best are Sainz...maybe Norris, Albon and Ricciardo as well. As much as I like to see Alonso back on top step of the podium I can't deny his age in 2025 and beyond.

 

I can't understand why would anyone want to hire Vettel for a top team for 2025. He was past his prime since 2020 and even more so in his final year. Add to that the long hiatus he's taking, a factor that slowed down even the likes of Schumacher. It would simple be a disaster. If Merc want publicity Alonso for 1 year with options to extend is a safer bet.

[PayasYouRace]

I really don’t understand the Vettel talk. He’s retired and seemed pretty happy about it, with plenty of new adventures in his life.

[r4mses]

[x] anyone but Albon

[noriaki]

Sterzo, on 02 Feb 2024 - 10:37, said:

If nothing else, this thread illustrates that none of us will ever be a team principal. The reasons offered here for driver selection or rejection include:

 

"Marketing" (whatever that means); fitting the culture; not being fast enough to trouble Russell; once argued with another team principal; has been spoken of well; is friends with their other driver; his dad was quick.

 

I definitely couldn't replace Toto, but I suggest he'll choose the driver he believes will deliver results.

 

In contrast, I would argue Toto will definitely have to consider other factors than a driver's ability to produce the best result in a vacuum. Not suggesting that it's the case this time - but big brands like marketable drivers and that is why sometimes big brands, which Mercedes is, also do get their say in the decision making process which might or might not play into a team principal's ability to make an independent decision. (There is a reason why Alpine has two French drivers, and it is not just coincidence). 

 

It's also a team sport. Human dynamics can sometimes be difficult, and this is why 1+1 will not always equal two. Sometimes well-functioning team-mates make each other better, sometimes poorly-functioning ones make each other worse. Sometimes a driver will gel with a particular team and sometimes not. 

 

Just to select one example, David Coulthard was perhaps not the best driver to bring out absolute results for McLaren, who could easily have signed Jacques Villeneuve to replace him - but DC gelled very well with both the #1 driver Hakkinen and most importantly, Adrian Newey who adored DC's technical feedback which helped them to develop the car. He did not get such great results for himself, but his value was getting the best out of the *team*; Mika may not have won those two titles with a different team-mate than DC.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

I think how competitive Mercedes could be in 2024 is what Fernando Alonso will be interested in.

[Acathla]

Vettel? What has he done in the past couple of years to warrant a Merc seat? Seb's in decline since he got beaten by Charles. Ocon, Albon and Schumacher are all mediocre options, Sainz makes more sense. Alonso would be great, but can't see it happening with Toto. 

[Taxi]

Beamer, on 02 Feb 2024 - 10:40, said:

And at the same time 2 out of those 3 are blamed for making Max look so good by just being not good enough to mount any challenge or even be a decent no2 (disclaimer: not my opinion).
So how's not even beating them a recommendation for ocon? 

 

Yeah I see your point and agree. But Max is another league. He would be closer to Russel and ad plenty of drama the way we like.  . It will also depend how his 2024 campaign will go. Gets beaten by Gasly and it's over. Beats Gasly and  he will be a contender. 

[Marklar]

Based on what Wolff said in his press talk today it seems really like they would go for Antonelli if he shows up well in F2. He said they trust Russell as a lead driver and thus can potentially do something risky for the 2nd seat.

[garoidb]

Acathla, on 02 Feb 2024 - 11:49, said:

Vettel? What has he done in the past couple of years to warrant a Merc seat? Seb's in decline since he got beaten by Charles. Ocon, Albon and Schumacher are all mediocre options, Sainz makes more sense. Alonso would be great, but can't see it happening with Toto. 

 

That would basically mean Toto taking the driver Ferrari rejected in order to snatch Hamilton. How do you make peace with being on the poor end of such a swap? And how do you spin it as a positive publicly? So, Toto mightn't like that too much either. That said, Sainz would be a very good option in reality so there might be kudos to be had later on. However, I think signing Fernando could be presented as a coup and continuation of the tradition of having a superstar in the team. Vettel also.

Edited by garoidb, 02 February 2024 - 12:05.

[Touchdown]

I'm surprised so many people are saying Ocon, who I think is his own worst enemy for an opportunity like this.

 

He can't get on with his team-mates at all - he seems to see red any time the same car is in close proximity to him on track, the only team-mate I think he didn't have issues with was Ricciardo, and that was because Daniel absolutely demolished him.

 

And this is forgiveable, and pretty easily overlooked, if you're talented enough - but as has already been pointed out, Ocon hasn't even beaten a team-mate yet. He's not good enough to deal with the baggage he brings.

[le chat noir]

Albonso

[eab]

Dan333SP, on 01 Feb 2024 - 20:24, said:

My memory is hazy but I thought it was more of the perception that Alonso couldn't work with Hamilton and was a toxic force within a team as he was burning bridges with Honda at the time, rather than any sort of blocker from Mercedes themselves... either way, I'd imagine it's a non issue now but age will certainly be the biggest strike against him. 

Well, the blocker from Merc/Wolff stems/stemmed from basically exactly that, but in relation to '07. And watching him fall out with Honda, almost a decade later, didn't really do any thing to change that perception. Wolff said that he wasn't an option (August '17, when Merc was sizing up a possible replacement for Bottas) because of his "history" with Merc (articles still online).

 

But like you, I can imagine that may well be a nonissue right now. It's just me wanting to know 'for sure', that's why I asked the question about this.

 

Fastcake, on 01 Feb 2024 - 22:28, said:

If Ron Dennis could sign Alonso again, I think Mercedes would have no problem.

 

And to add, sign Alonso. Probably doesn't make much sense frankly, and there's a few reasonably talented drivers hanging about who have more than a couple of years left in them, but as fans I think we're deserved some entertainment in Formula One again.

See my reply to Dan; you could be spot on about Merc having no problem (any more), though I will point out that the resigning of Alonso by Dennis precedes the Wolff quote.

 

JeanAlesi27, on 02 Feb 2024 - 01:49, said:

Hein?  For what reason would he be that? 

For the above mentioned.

[Risil]

Marklar, on 02 Feb 2024 - 12:03, said:

Based on what Wolff said in his press talk today it seems really like they would go for Antonelli if he shows up well in F2. He said they trust Russell as a lead driver and thus can potentially do something risky for the 2nd seat.

In which case some adept negotiation from Alonso and Sainz's agents will be required.

Although I guess we'll know surprisingly soon whether Antonelli is ready for a step up? Mercedes aren't going to hire him on the back of a season that starts badly and then he gets the hang of it and is winning by the end.

[Clatter]

Disgrace, on 01 Feb 2024 - 19:33, said:

Under contract until 2027. It would be ironic if McLaren lost him in the way they originally snatched him. After the Palou debacle too...

Are you suggesting Mclaren haven't actually signed a contract with him?

[Disgrace]

Clatter, on 02 Feb 2024 - 12:57, said:

Are you suggesting Mclaren haven't actually signed a contract with him?

 

It would surely be the only way they could lose him. Zak Brown wouldn't survive it.

Edited by Disgrace, 02 February 2024 - 12:57.

[Clatter]

jonklug, on 02 Feb 2024 - 10:16, said:

Love Fernando, really do, he'd be super fun to watch in that Mercedes. But I do think it's time we actually give others a go in top teams. I'd rather them actually take the leap and put Antonelli in there directly in 2025 than going for Alonso. Or try to stick it to Ferrari and offer Leclerc.

How would hiring Leclerc be sticking it to Ferrari?

[SparkPlug86]

So, I'd like to see Schumacher... simply to see how he would perform in a top car as I think he's actually got something to prove.

 

But... I'd also love Alonso to get that drive - he'd drive the nuts off it and I imagine would put George in the ground quickly.

[le chat noir]

I'm torn on Alonso going there. He might be better off where he's at, particularly with Honda coming on board.

 

Sainz feels like a second choice for Mercedes, so don't see that happening. I think he'll go to RBR for a couple of seasons, then to Audi.

 

Albon works for both sides, but he could also end up at RBR. Safe number 2 choice and could exceed expectations. I suspect Albon would fancy himself over Russell more than over Verstappen, and he's already been burned by RBR.

 

Antonelli would normally need a Williams stint, but perhaps he can show great things and skip the queue. But would they risk it? Would be safer to place him alongside Perez at Williams.

 

I think this seat is Albon's, but it will be late in the season before anything is signed.

[Clatter]

SparkPlug86, on 02 Feb 2024 - 13:12, said:

So, I'd like to see Schumacher... simply to see how he would perform in a top car as I think he's actually got something to prove.

But... I'd also love Alonso to get that drive - he'd drive the nuts off it and I imagine would put George in the ground quickly.

I'd forgotten all about Schumacher. Don't think he is good enough personally, but will be interesting to see what Wolff would do after saying good things about him after he was dumped.