67 replies to this topic

[Ben1445]

So I see we're having yet another go at this, apparently... modified Super Formula cars this time. 
 
Why Abu Dhabi is launching an ambitious new autonomous racing series
Abu Dhabi is poised to kick off a new series that is aimed at pushing the boundaries of autonomous racing which promises a ‘new era of sports entertainment’.
https://www.autospor...eries/10587158/

 

 

[PlatenGlass]

Is this Turing car racing?

[William Hunt]

Driverless racing.... who the hell is interested in that

[Ben1445]

I’d imagine the competitors probably would be

[Nathan]

What's the draw for the fan?

[Ben1445]

The main potential draw I can think of would be the sheer spectacle of machines unhindered by the physical limitations of a human driver.

But that’s something of a longer-term sort of idea - there’s quite a few steps in the meantime to get anywhere near that. Racing some modified Super Formula cars isn't going to provide any meaningful draw over doing the same thing but with real drivers, but it might be essential step if you're ever going to push those boundaries.  

Imagine a 300+mph lap at a super-speedway though. Could imagine it being like a larger version of those tether-racing cars people build - a very niche competition and with a very small core following which basically lives on those willing to compete in it, but impressive nonetheless for those who stumble across it.

 

 

Edited by Ben1445, 15 March 2024 - 14:25.

[Stephane]

Just compare the interest for

A. Sim racing with real drivers
B. Driverless 'real' racing
C. The real thing with cars and drivers.

I don't think we need a poll

[LolaB0860]

I care way more about the cars than drivers, so when the infamous failed RoboRace concept showed up I was actually all for it. Or rather, where it could lead to:
A) Engineering and technology dictating the results and less politics and circumstances
B) Even more importantly, enabling racing cars to race on more fantasy-like Gran Turismo esque tracks where safety is less important

Spec cars circulating around sterile Abu Dhabi is boring. However, baby steps...

Note: Not that I want to get rid of drivers BUT there should be room for this alongside as well.

Edited by LolaB0860, 15 March 2024 - 18:25.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Just compare the interest for

A. Sim racing with real drivers
B. Driverless 'real' racing
C. The real thing with cars and drivers.

I don't think we need a poll

 

A is extremely popular now, even though it’s not my cup of tea to watch. Wouldn’t surprise me if B got there eventually.

 

C is my only interest at the moment though!

[JHSingo]

I really don't understand why people are trying to make driverless motorsport a thing. 

 

The human element in any sport, and particularly motorsport, is what makes it so compelling. When you remove that, what's left? Not much. 

[Myrvold]

A is extremely popular now, even though it’s not my cup of tea to watch.

 

Is it really though?

Edited by Myrvold, 16 March 2024 - 00:58.

[Stephane]

it had a peak during Covid, but look at the state of the F1 Esport (yes, it's dead)

Edited by Stephane, 15 March 2024 - 23:44.

[Grippy]

I will definitely watch a couple of races at least.

From the days of little robots on a table trying to avoid each other, to a motor-race of autonomous cars all heading to the apex of the first bend, I find all the tech fascinating.

I don't see that it detracts from watching drivers doing the same thing at all.

I also feel that lessons learned here could have real-world applications.

 

Think of it as a humane version of techy greyhound racing if that helps.

[PayasYouRace]

Without the human interest I can’t see this becoming much more than a proving ground for car companies' autonomous technology. The results might have a bit of marketing value, but I can see there being a big fanbase in the general public.

 

Funny you mention dog racing. It’s essentially a local betting activity. I can’t imagine anyone actually follows particular dogs other than extreme hardcore punters.

[FirstnameLastname]

Is this Turing car racing?

Very good, very good indeed.

[Disgrace]

There's probably value for those who work in motorsport. A computer may well develop more optimal race strategies. Similar to how chess engine championships have developed chess theory over decades.

[PayasYouRace]

There's probably value for those who work in motorsport. A computer may well develop more optimal race strategies. Similar to how chess engine championships have developed chess theory over decades.

 

Though as fans we generally want less optimal race strategies.

[Ben1445]

I really don't understand why people are trying to make driverless motorsport a thing.

The human element in any sport, and particularly motorsport, is what makes it so compelling. When you remove that, what's left? Not much.

Whilst on-track action might be autonomous, the people competing to develop the fastest machines are human.

Much like those model tether cars in fact - once it’s set running it’s an autonomous system, but it is the result of hours of tuning work and refinement on the part of the model-builder.

That doesn’t mean I’m all that interested in this, and I definitely don’t expect it to rival motor racing as a compelling human sport. But I do see that it presents an interesting technical competition and am not surprised in the least that people are setting this up - I’d say that’s very human indeed.
.

Edited by Ben1445, 16 March 2024 - 10:48.

[pdac]

What's the draw for the fan?

 

Novelty. Once it's worn off, there will be no fans.

[FirstnameLastname]

Novelty. Once it's worn off, there will be no fans.

AI fans…

[PayasYouRace]

[grandmastashi]

Radio control cars say hi. 

[Stephane]

I knew i forgot something.

[7MGTEsup]

Radio control cars say hi. 

 

But those are controlled by a human... These are supposed to be self driving  controlled by a computer.

[Ben1445]

Hence why I think the model tether racing is an appropriate comparison. Sure, one’s control system is a cable tied to a post and the other’s is a complex computer system, but the principle of prepare/tune the system, set it going and let it do its thing is analogous enough.

[Oulton]

Why the hell would anyone want to pay money to watch autonomous cars racing? 

Autonomous vehicles in industry, ok, but racing? Bonkers

[7MGTEsup]

Why the hell would anyone want to pay money to watch autonomous cars racing? 

Autonomous vehicles in industry, ok, but racing? Bonkers

 

It could be quite ammusing in the early days. Are the cars all going to crash into eachother or are they all going to trying to avoid eachother so much it become an "after you, no after you" sort of situation. I would watch it just to see if it's even possible to get cars to race eachother at any kind of speed. Will also be interesting to see what happens with varied weather conditions and grip levels.

[PayasYouRace]

It’s basically advanced poohsticks, when you think about it.

[chdphd]

Start small eh

 

[Radoye]

Just compare the interest for

A. Sim racing with real drivers
B. Driverless 'real' racing
C. The real thing with cars and drivers.

I don't think we need a poll

 

There is also driverless sim racing - where custom programmed AI "drivers" compete on sim circuits. 

For example: https://en.wikipedia...CS#Competitions

(there are some videos on youtube if someone is curious enough to look it up)

[Grippy]

[Alan Lewis]

...advanced poohsticks...

What a great name for an album.

[Oulton]

It’s basically advanced poohsticks, when you think about it.

Even if you don't think about it

[ExFlagMan]

I wonder if it will get further than Roborace did?

[Ben1445]

The Indy Autonomous Challenge has already got a lot further than RoboRace did, having held five annual competitions since 2021. Uses the IL-15 as a base, and competed in by university teams. 

 

Here's some of the 2023 event: 

 

 

And one of the cars doing a lap of Monza 

 

Edited by Ben1445, 19 March 2024 - 15:28.

[FirstnameLastname]

Brake pads will last an entire season then…

[LolaB0860]

The first race will be broadcasted here

[Beri]

The Indy Autonomous Challenge has already got a lot further than RoboRace did, having held five annual competitions since 2021. Uses the IL-15 as a base, and competed in by university teams. 

 

Here's some of the 2023 event: 

 

 

And one of the cars doing a lap of Monza 

 

 

At least no discussion on track limits..

[Ben1445]

[JimmyClark]

I just skipped through the youtube of this... what an utter waste of time. 

 

(I'm sure the engineers involved were having fun, but maybe this should be kept on a university campus rather than trying to get motorsport fans interested). 

[Ben1445]

Honestly, they’ve thrown megabucks at the marketing. It’s been all over my social media feeds as sponsored ads, big presence plastered over The Race’s website, they’ve just set off an obscene amount of fireworks….

[917k]

That wasn’t good.

[thegamer23]

While very interesting for the everyday's mobility, i still don't get this concept applied to racing.

 

Most fascinating part of Motorsport are the drivers and their stories. 

The man and the machine.

 

Remove the man, and what it's left is a math exercise for engineers imho!

 

Still, it's interesting to look at the development of this tech, so keep updating!     

Edited by thegamer23, 27 April 2024 - 18:39.

[jee]

The man is quite a limiting factor in motorsport though, not only for safety reasons.

[ANF]

The man is quite a limiting factor in motorsport though, not only for safety reasons.

Not sure if Niki Lauda and his ass would agree.

[WouterF1]

All three from Motorsport.com:

 

Video Daniil Kvyat leaving the garage: https://scontent-ams...&_nc_sid=6d62aa

 

Video Daniil Kvyat: https://scontent-ams...&_nc_sid=6d62aa

 

Daniil and his lovely gf Alexia a day after his 30st birthday:

Edited by WouterF1, 27 April 2024 - 19:01.

[F1 Mike]

Just watched some of it. Skipped most of it. Nothing really entertaining happened.... It's not ready for spectators that is for sure.

[Gambelli]

I genuinely thought it was interesting and am keen to watch it's progression.......

[azza200]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz utterly pointless 8 laps most of it was under a SC and FCY there was what 1ish lap of "racing" 

[GreenMachine]

Best watched under 'fast forward' ....

 

Early days, be interesting to watch how much and how fast the software can be improved to better reflect the real thing.