70 replies to this topic

[tyker]

Once again I bring forward my qualifying averages for those of you that are interested in this kind of thing, my methodology is too use the fastest lap a driver achieves whether that be in Q1, Q2 or Q3, a driver may well out qualify his teammate but end up having achieved a slower lap so his teammate gets the benefit towards the average lap.

 

Laps are only used where drivers competed in the same qualifying sessions and only dry laps are used because wet laps are run in inconsistent conditions were much larger gaps in teammates are often seen and often an element of luck might be present as well.

 

It has to be seen that a driver has had a fair chance to set a competitive lap, free of mechanical issues, yellow flags etc, also a driver may simply not have set a competitive lap after running off the track or it could be a combination of all 3 things. Another thing I have to be sure of is that drivers are driving to their maximum ability and not just coasting through the qualifying sessions like we tend to see with the top teams until they reach Q3.

 

2024 (After 3 races)

 

01. Tsunoda 0.45s

02. Albon 0.4s

03. Verstappen 0.35s

04. Bottas 0.32s

05. Alonso 0.213s

06. Hulkenberg 0.206s

07. Ocon 0.17s

08. Russell 0.14s

09. Leclerc 0.11s

10. Norris 0.09s

 

[Secretariat]

Nice and thanks for your effort. Regarding your methodology, what is the standard for "competitive lap"? Is it just the combination of those 3 variables or are there additional considerations like traffic/impeding?

[tyker]

Nice and thanks for your effort. Regarding your methodology, what is the standard for "competitive lap"? Is it just the combination of those 3 variables or are there additional considerations like traffic/impeding?

Yes also things like traffic and impeding.

[tyker]

After Japan (Japan Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.4s (0.541s)

02. Alonso 0.36s (0.77s)

03. Tsunoda 0.35s (0.055s)

04. Albon 0.32s (0.176s)

05. Verstappen 0.28s (0.066s)

06. Hulkenburg 0.24s (0.31s)

07. Ocon 0.21s (0.308s)

08. Norris 0.14s (0.271s)

09. Russell 0.05s (-0.242s)

10. Leclerc 0.04s (-0.104s)

[jAnO76]

Yes also things like traffic and impeding.

Welll… didn’t Perez have Russel parked in the final chicane? 😬

[tyker]

Welll… didn’t Perez have Russel parked in the final chicane?

I didn't watch the qualifying live so I guess that must be something I missed, that being said I would be guessing that Perez is quite pleased with his qualifying lap, it lowered his gap to Verstappen.

[Sterzo]

Welll… didn’t Perez have Russel parked in the final chicane?

Did he have to slow for him? Didn't look like he did to me. I thought Russell was off line and out of the way.

[statsguy]

After Japan (Japan Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.4s (0.541s)

02. Alonso 0.36s (0.77s)

03. Tsunoda 0.35s (0.055s)

04. Albon 0.32s (0.176s)

05. Verstappen 0.28s (0.066s)

06. Hulkenburg 0.24s (0.31s)

07. Ocon 0.21s (0.308s)

08. Norris 0.14s (0.271s)

09. Russell 0.05s (-0.242s)

10. Leclerc 0.04s (-0.104s)

How are you treating the race where Sainz was injured - is Bearman's time used instead? It makes sense to exclude it as an outlier, otherwise it distorts Sainz's performance.

[tyker]

How are you treating the race where Sainz was injured - is Bearman's time used instead? It makes sense to exclude it as an outlier, otherwise it distorts Sainz's performance.

No it's a driver comparison not the cars they drive, it's excluded.

Edited by tyker, 06 April 2024 - 23:38.

[tyker]

After China (China Difference)

 

01. Albon 0.4s (0.629s)

02. Bottas 0.38s (0.336s)

03. Alonso 0.32s (0.186s)

04. Hulkenburg 0.292s (0.448s)

05. Verstappen 0.287s (0.322s)

06. Tsunoda 0.22s (-0.303s)

07. Ocon 0.18s (0.064s)

08. Russell 0.14s (0.491s)

09. Norris 0.13s (0.11s)

10. Leclerc 0.03s (0.008s)

Edited by tyker, 05 May 2024 - 00:12.

[tyker]

After Miami (Miami Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.38s (0.361s)

02. Albon 0.35s (0.144s)

03. Hulkenberg 0.281s (0.236s)

04. Verstappen 0.276s (0.219s)

05. Tsunoda 0.23s (0.293s)

06. Alonso 0.22s (-0.25s)

07. Norris 0.12s (0.081s)

08. Ocon 0.11s (-0.233s)

09. Russell 0.05s (-0.37s)

10. Leclerc 0.04s (0.073s)

[tyker]

After Imola (Imola Difference)

 

01. Albon 0.348s (-)*

02. Bottas 0.347s (0.208s)

03.Verstappen 0.31s (0.53s)

04. Hulkenberg 0.28s (-)*

05. Tsunoda 0.24s (0.316s)

06. Alonso 0.13s (-0.459s)

07. Ocon 0.11s (0.109s)

08. Norris 0.104s (-0.017s)

09. Russell 0.096s (0.27s)

10. Leclerc 0.08s (0.263s)

 

*Sargeant didn't set a legal lap, Magnussen got impeded by Piastri.

Edited by tyker, 18 May 2024 - 20:55.

[tyker]

After Monaco (Monaco Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.37s (0.516s)

02. Albon 0.36s (0.397s)

03. Verstappen 0.32s (0.349s)

04. Hulkenberg 0.28s (0.285s)

05. Tsunoda 0.26s (0.376s)

06. Leclerc 0.1s (0.248s)

07. Russell 0.082s (0.078s)

08. Norris 0.075s (-0.118s)

09. Alonso 0.074s (-0.291s)

10. Ocon 0.05s (-0.389s)

Edited by tyker, 25 May 2024 - 19:44.

[tyker]

After Canada (Canada Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.44s (0.926s)

02. Verstappen 0.39s (0.966s)

03. Albon 0.34s (0.251s)

04. Tsunoda 0.22s (-0.125s)

05. Hulkenberg 0.13s (-0.761s)

06. Alonso 0.11s (0.431s)

07. Russell 0.1s (0.237s)

08. Leclerc 0.09s (0.037s)

09. Norris 0.08s (0.082s)

10. Ocon 0.03s (-0.046s)

Edited by tyker, 09 June 2024 - 13:24.

[Anderis]

I wonder what's happening to Zhou. By mid 2023 he was pretty much matching Bottas in qualifying and now he's so far behind again. I don't think I've ever seen such a big swing within one team mate pair?

[motorhead]

I wonder what's happening to Zhou. By mid 2023 he was pretty much matching Bottas in qualifying and now he's so far behind again. I don't think I've ever seen such a big swing within one team mate pair?

 

Yes, I was wondering that too. Bottas has always been good in qualifying, last year it really seemed that Zhou has taken a step forward. Now Zhou seems to be totally lost. Sauber is most is probably the worst car in the grid and Bottas can handle situation better. 

[tyker]

After Barcelona (Barcelona Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.45s (0.511s)

02. Verstappen 0.41s (0.651s)

03. Albon 0.34s (0.346s)

04. Tsunoda 0.2s (0.09s)

05. Hulkenberg 0.14s (0.229s)

06. Alonso 0.13s (0.244s)

07. Russell 0.09s (-0.002s)

08. Leclerc 0.084s (0.005s)

09. Norris 0.083s (0.139s)

10. Ocon 0.01s (-0.252s)

[tyker]

After Austria (Austria Difference)

 

01. Verstappen 0.45s (0.83s)

02. Bottas 0.43s (0.214s)

03. Albon 0.32s (0.12s)

04. Tsunoda 0.17s (-0.123s)

05. Hulkenberg 0.14s (0.085s)

06. Alonso 0.13s (0.163s)

07. Norris 0.11s (0.33s)

08. Russell 0.09s (0.063s)

09. Leclerc 0.06s (-0.193s)

10. Ocon 0.02s (0.085s)

Edited by tyker, 29 June 2024 - 16:26.

[tyker]

After Silverstone (Silverstone Difference)

 

01. Verstappen 0.45s (-)*

02. Bottas 0.43s (-)*

03. Albon 0.31s (0.242s)

04. Tsunoda 0.17s (-)**

05. Hulkenberg 0.14s (-)*

06. Norris 0.114s (0.207s)

07. Alonso 0.107s (-0.145s)

08. Russell 0.09s (0.171s)

09. Leclerc 0.03s (-0.254s)

10. Ocon 0.02s (-)*

 

*Wet qualifying.

**Ricciardo impeded.

Edited by tyker, 06 July 2024 - 18:29.

[tyker]

After Hungary (Hungary Difference)

 

01. Verstappen 0.45s (-)*

02. Bottas 0.43s (-)*

03. Albon 0.29s (0.114s)

04. Tsunoda 0.17s (-)**

05. Hulkenberg 0.15s (0.231s)

06. Norris 0.11s (0.022s)

07. Alonso 0.1s (0.032s)

08. Russell 0.09s (-)*

09. Ocon 0.02s (-)*

10. Leclerc 0.01s (-0.195s)

*Damp track

**Tsunoda crashed preventing Ricciardo from beating his time.

[flyboym3]

Intermediate tyres never got used mate so same opportunity and conditions for everyone.

[tyker]

Intermediate tyres never got used mate so same opportunity and conditions for everyone.

The conditions were a bit to inconsistent.

[tyker]

After Zandvoort (Zandvoort Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.49s (1.093s)

02. Verstappen 0.45s (0.387s)

03. Albon 0.29s (-)

04. Tsunoda 0.19s (0.34s)

05. Hulkenberg 0.14s (0.08s)

06. Norris 0.13s (0.499s)

07. Russell 0.12s (0.396s)

08. Alonso 0.1s (0.028s)

09. Leclerc 0.03s (0.225s)

10. Gasly 0.01s (0.277s)

[SenorSjon]

What happened to Belgium?

[tyker]

What happened to Belgium?

It rained this is for dry sessions.

[tyker]

After Monza (Monza Difference)

 

01. Albon 0.519s

02. Bottas 0.47s (0.344s)

03. Verstappen 0.44s (0.4s)

04. Tsunoda 0.17s (-0.044s)

05. Hulkenberg 0.15s (0.287s)

06. Norris 0.13s (0.109s)

07. Alonso 0.12s (0.396s)

08. Russell 0.11s (0.073s)

09. Leclerc 0.03s (0.036s)

10. Gasly 0.01s (0.026s)

[marcm]

After Zandvoort (Zandvoort Difference)

01. Bottas 0.49s (1.093s)
02. Verstappen 0.45s (0.387s)
03. Albon 0.29s (-)
04. Tsunoda 0.19s (0.34s)
05. Hulkenberg 0.14s (0.08s)
06. Norris 0.13s (0.499s)
07. Russell 0.12s (0.396s)
08. Alonso 0.1s (0.028s)
09. Leclerc 0.03s (0.225s)
10. Gasly 0.01s (0.277s)

Shouldn't the Zandvoort difference for Alonso/Stroll be 0.224s ?

[tyker]

Shouldn't the Zandvoort difference for Alonso/Stroll be 0.224s ?

It's the fastest lap, took Stroll's time from Q2.

[tyker]

After Baku (Baku Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.49s (0.627s)

02. Verstappen 0.4s (-0.21s)

03. Tsunoda 0.173s (0.21s)

04. Alonso 0.168s (0.944s)

05. Russell 0.1339s (0.415s)

06. Norris 0.1332s (-)*

07. Bearman 0.133s

08. Albon 0.08s (-0.367s)

09. Leclerc 0.05s (0.44s)

10. Gasly 0.04s (0.404s)

 

*Norris had to abort his lap because of a yellow flag

[Joseki]

After a round of consecutive bad quali due to external circumstances Alonso is quickly restoring his dominance over Stroll. They were 7-5 after Silverstone now 12-5.

[tyker]

After Singapore (Singapore Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.49s (0.482s)

02. Verstappen 0.43s (0.899s)

03. Tsunoda 0.19s (0.369s)

04. Alonso 0.18s (0.41s)

05. Hulkenberg 0.17s (0.403s)

06. Norris 0.13s (0.115s)

07. Russell 0.12s (-0.026s)

08. Leclerc 0.07s (0.361s)

09. Albon 0.05s (0.006s)

10. Gasly 0.01s (-0.354s)

Edited by tyker, 21 September 2024 - 19:10.

[Button4life]

After Singapore (Singapore Difference)

01. Bottas 0.49s (0.482s)
02. Verstappem 0.43s (0.899s)
03. Tsunoda 0.19s (0.369s)
04. Alonso 0.18s (0.41s)
05. Hulkenberg 0.17s (0.403s)
06. Norris 0.13s (0.115s)
07. Russell 0.12s (-0.026s)
08. Leclerc 0.07s (0.361s)
09. Albon 0.05s (0.006s)
10. Gasly 0.01s (-0.354s)

Norris was 4 tenths ahead of Piastri

[tyker]

Norris was 4 tenths ahead of Piastri

Piastri set his fastest lap in Q2.

[Button4life]

Piastri set his fastest lap in Q2.

Why are you comparing fastest laps? They were set under different conditions.

[Mc_Silver]

Why are you comparing fastest laps? They were set under different conditions.

Yeah. I thought he was taking the averages of the laps done in the same conditions.

[tyker]

The first sentence of my opening post.

 

Once again I bring forward my qualifying averages for those of you that are interested in this kind of thing, my methodology is too use the fastest lap a driver achieves whether that be in Q1, Q2 or Q3.

[Mat13]

Seems a little odd, surely the most scientific way is to compare fastest laps in sessions in which both drivers competed?

[tyker]

Seems a little odd, surely the most scientific way is to compare fastest laps in sessions in which both drivers competed?

They both competed in Q2, why would I ignore a driver's fastest lap when I'm looking for the best lap a driver can produce provided of course that they both competed in the session.

[Mat13]

They both competed in Q2, why would I ignore a driver's fastest lap when I'm looking for the best lap a driver can produce provided of course that they both competed in the session.

Because conditions change session to session- air and track temperatures, car setup, tyre choice, track evolution etc. It’s your comparison so your choice, you’re putting the effort in so I’m not criticising- it would be interesting to see if the two methods produced different results I suppose.

[tyker]

Because conditions change session to session- air and track temperatures, car setup, tyre choice, track evolution etc. It’s your comparison so your choice, you’re putting the effort in so I’m not criticising- it would be interesting to see if the two methods produced different results I suppose.

I can appreciate that but normally a track ramps up with grip, Q2 doesn't tend to be quicker than Q3 and I don't think that was the case today either.

[tyker]

After Austin (Austin Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.46s (0.076s)

02. Verstappen 0.44s (0.559s)

03. Alonso 0.19s (0.33s)

04. Lawson 0.167s

05. Norris 0.161s (0.62s)

06. Hulkenberg 0.155s (-0.07s)

07. Russell 0.14s (0.618s)

08. Leclerc 0.06s (-0.088s)

09. Albon 0.042s (0.011s)

10. Gasly 0.039s (0.435s)

[RacingFan10]

After Austin (Austin Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.46s (0.076s)

02. Verstappen 0.44s (0.559s)

03. Alonso 0.19s (0.33s)

04. Lawson 0.167s

05. Norris 0.161s (0.62s)

06. Hulkenberg 0.155s (-0.07s)

07. Russell 0.14s (0.618s)

08. Leclerc 0.06s (-0.088s)

09. Albon 0.042s (0.011s)

10. Gasly 0.039s (0.435s)

 

These are all exceptionally close except top 2.

And I'm surprised how much old Bottas is beating Zhou in that.

[tyker]

These are all exceptionally close except top 2.

And I'm surprised how much old Bottas is beating Zhou in that.

Bottas probably deserves to stay in F1 but it looks like he's pricing himself out.

[RacingFan10]

Bottas probably deserves to stay in F1 but it looks like he's pricing himself out.

 

Well, if your team mate makes you look good... Never rated Zhou much tbh

[tyker]

Well, if your team mate makes you look good... Never rated Zhou much tbh

It's the size of the gap that I'm referencing, Zhou was good enough to beat Drugovich quite easily when they were teammates in F2.

[RacingFan10]

It's the size of the gap that I'm referencing, Zhou was good enough to beat Drugovich quite easily when they were teammates in F2.

 

Zhou is pretty much a considered a "pay driver" and from a much wealthier family than Drugovich.

 

As we know, being from a rich family can make you get into F1 but that's about it.

Edited by RacingFan10, 20 October 2024 - 15:45.

[tyker]

Zhou is pretty much a considered a "pay driver" and from a much wealthier family than Drugovich.

 

As we know, being from a rich family can make you get into F1 but that's about it.

Drugovich is a F2 Champion we're perhaps into the realms of being rich disqualifies you. 

[tyker]

After Mexico (Mexico Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.47s (0.679s)

02. Verstappen 0.46s (0.808s)

03. Alonso 0.19s (0.126s)

04. Norris 0.16s (-)*

05. Russell 0.15s (0.295s)

06. Hulkenberg 0.14s (-0.109s)

07. Albon 0.11s (0.369s)

08. Lawson 0.07s (-0.033s)

09. Gasly 0.06s (0.468s)

10. Leclerc 0.04s (-0.319s)

 

*Piastri unable to set a representative lap.

[MissingApex]

*Piastri unable to set a representative lap.

Thx!

Can you clarify this part? How was Piastri unable to set a representative time?

[CharlesWinstone]

Imo if you don't count Piastri you must take out Perez as well.