95 replies to this topic

[JL14]

According to Motorsport.com there are multiple parties looking at the possibility of taking over Alpine, including a major car manufacturer.

The biggest hurdle would be that Viry would also have to be part of the deal to assure that the engineers there are guaranteed their job till at least 2029.

[SophieB]

Alpine’s disappointing start to the Formula 1 season has already fuelled talk that its parent company Renault could consider offers to sell the squad. However, according to information gathered in recent weeks, any possible sale of the outfit would likely be on the condition that any new owner would continue to use Renault engine power for the foreseeable future.
The opening four races of the 2024 season have confirmed Alpine is in a difficult spot, with it standing last in the constructors’ championship on zero points with Sauber and Williams.
It appears to be the least competitive out of the three and, to make matters worse, it is not a customer outfit but a full-on works squad with car giant Renault behind it.

https://www.autospor...emand/10597133/

[aray]

Pity. It was Renault's systematic under investment that brought the team to this edge.

[kumo7]

Ha,... there was this talk some time ago, in some other thread. I was then stunned and was lost, but now, someone else says it. Oh wait, April 1 was just some days ago... unless, it is GM trying to buy the entire Renault. 

[noikeee]

[Calum]

It has felt a half-arsed attempt for years. (Even before the Alpine rebrand).

Yes an engine programme is expensive but the racing side has been massively let down from Renault Group. It comes across as doing the bare minimum to scrape by.

I don’t get what the point is? “Alpine” is to shield the Renault brand rather than sell blue sports cars? It’s sad for a regarded F1 facility to flounder along like this. (More so as it had big success under Renault Group before).

I do think they’d be better letting another owner have a crack if they can’t invest seriously.

[Beri]

Pity. It was Renault's systematic under investment that brought the team to this edge.

 

I see it more as a classic tale of mismanagement. Not so much underinvestment. Their facilities are neither the best or the worst. But surely they are no Williams.

[kumo7]

Funny texts at the end of the article. 

 

However, this constraint of using the Renault engine could reduce the number of potential buyers - since some interested parties want to involve the use of their own power units or those of other manufacturers with which there are already links.

 

New buyer has interests in using own power plant. ... ? Is it Marc? no it has own team. Is it Ferrari? no it has its own team. Is it Renault? no obviously not  , (well, Renault could buy Alpine back as if it were eradicating own failure officially ), Is it RBPT? no because it has own units. So... Toyota? perhaps not, as it has own Kolone base, and then... 

 

Never say never,... strange things has happened...

[juicy sushi]

According to Motorsport.com there are multiple parties looking at the possibility of taking over Alpine, including a major car manufacturer.

The biggest hurdle would be that Viry would also have to be part of the deal to assure that the engineers there are guaranteed their job till at least 2029.

[aportinga]

GM>Cadillac>Andretti

 

[FLB]

Funny texts at the end of the article. 

 

 

 

New buyer has interests in using own power plant. ... ? Is it Marc? no it has own team. Is it Ferrari? no it has its own team. Is it Renault? no obviously not  , (well, Renault could buy Alpine back as if it were eradicating own failure officially ), Is it RBPT? no because it has own units. So... Toyota? perhaps not, as it has own Kolone base, and then... 

 

Never say never,... strange things has happened...

Andretti, surely.

[Myrvold]

Andretti, surely.

 

Won't fit with GM's plans about their own engine?

[DeKnyff]

Won't fit with GM's plans about their own engine?

 

Well, if they buy also the engine operation, it will be their own engine.

[kumo7]

Andretti, surely.

 

Could be a candidate. But it was rumored to have Renault tie. I thought it will use Mercedes.

 

I had in my mind ... HONDA...

[Spillage]

I honesylu don't understand how one of the world's  pre-eminent car manufacturers can be this bad at F1. It wouldn't surprise me if they sell.

[FullThrottleF1]

I wish they would. Renault has done precisely nothing in nearly 10 years with this team

[Primo]

Well, if they buy also the engine operation, it will be their own engine.

I sneaked into Renault's engine plant last week and snapped this picture:

[Myrvold]

Well, if they buy also the engine operation, it will be their own engine.

 

I might've misunderstood the article, but I read it as Renault would keep the engine-department themselves.

 

"However, this constraint of using the Renault engine could reduce the number of potential buyers - since some interested parties want to involve the use of their own power units or those of other manufacturers with which there are already links."

 

There are no-one out there with an existing F1 engine not being used, so the specific "using the Renault engine" and "some interested parties want to involve the use of their own power units", makes it sound like GM/Andretti buying the team and the engine-department is a no-go.

[William Hunt]

Pity. It was Renault's systematic under investment that brought the team to this edge.

Partly. I would say it's more related to bad management and in particular changing the top of their F1 team staff ever year. That created instability and people becoming scared to lose their job.

But the most important sentence of that Autosport article was at the end which says "Alpine completely denies it is for sale". Most likely it's just paddock gossip because the team is doing poorly right now, I don't believe it's for sale. People think "oh they're driving at the back so surely they will be prepared to sell". But that's just speculation, they thought that about Haas too but Haas wasn't prepared to sell at all.

 

They're also going to get a higher amount when they would sell if the team is doing better as now, when you're completely at the back it's never a good moment to sell.

Edited by William Hunt, 10 April 2024 - 14:34.

[Anja]

I've been a faithful Renault fan for years but enough is enough, at this point I just don't care anymore. Would rather see them gone (and perhaps return the Alpine brand to its true home in rallying?) than in the current shape with no hope for improvement.

[Keke Rosberg]

what about Porsche?  they don't have their own power-unit and want control of a team.  Although I'm not sure they have the needed finance to purchase the team.

[aray]

One thing for sure is the value of the team will go up each year they keep it running.

[Bendo]

Renault really screwed up that team. Considering how they were punching well above their weight before Renault bought it back.

[Dunc]

Renault has shown in the not-that-distant past that they can build excellent F1 engines (11 years ago they were the PU for the WDC) but it seems like they just can't run a team. The original operation fell apart in the 1980s, then something similar happened in the 2010s and now it's happening again in the 2020s. Selling the team and becoming an engine supplier only would probably be a good move but - as others have said - I can't see who would buy it in the present climate. 

[F1 Mike]

Renault has shown in the not-that-distant past that they can build excellent F1 engines (11 years ago they were the PU for the WDC) but it seems like they just can't run a team. The original operation fell apart in the 1980s, then something similar happened in the 2010s and now it's happening again in the 2020s. Selling the team and becoming an engine supplier only would probably be a good move but - as others have said - I can't see who would buy it in the present climate.

But even when they were winning the championships, did they have the best engine on the grid?? I'm not so sure that was the case

[PayasYouRace]

But even when they were winning the championships, did they have the best engine on the grid?? I'm not so sure that was the case

In the 90s, yes. In their other successful periods, not so sure.

[DeKnyff]

I might've misunderstood the article, but I read it as Renault would keep the engine-department themselves.

 

"However, this constraint of using the Renault engine could reduce the number of potential buyers - since some interested parties want to involve the use of their own power units or those of other manufacturers with which there are already links."

 

There are no-one out there with an existing F1 engine not being used, so the specific "using the Renault engine" and "some interested parties want to involve the use of their own power units", makes it sound like GM/Andretti buying the team and the engine-department is a no-go.

 

Yeah, I admit I may not have read the article to the end. 

[dn12005]

So let's just ignore the one, and only quote in the entire article...which was subsequently added 90mins later. Am I right; or should we just chocked this up as Alpine/Renault just trying to save face?

[FullThrottleF1]

So let's just ignore the one, and only quote in the entire article...which was subsequently added 90mins later. Am I right; or should we just chocked this up as Alpine/Renault just trying to save face?

Huh?

[dn12005]

Huh?

 

A statement from Alpine said: “The rumours and stories about the team being for sale are false. The team is categorically not for sale.”

 

https://www.motorspo...emand/10597127/

[FullThrottleF1]

It must be true then. As the old F1 saying goes 'its not true until it's been officially denied'

[Nathan]

Basically, Renault wants someone else to be the fall guy for shutting down the Viry operation?

[dn12005]

It must be true then. As the old F1 saying goes 'its not true until it's been officially denied'

 

Or...and this might sound crazy, but It could very well be true, as in the other times the team has had to put out statements denying they are selling the team.  Which seems to be quite a few times since the team returned in 2016.

 

 

Seriously, perhaps the team will be sold one day, but can we just let Renault announce it instead - when they are ready to sell the team?

Edited by dn12005, 10 April 2024 - 17:56.

[FullThrottleF1]

Or...and this might sound crazy, but It could very well be true, as in the other times the team has had to put out statements denying they are selling the team.  Which seems to be quite a few times since the team returned in 2016.

 

 

Seriously, perhaps the team will be sold one day, but can we just let the Renault announce it instead - when they are ready to sell the team.

We shall see. I'm not convinced yet.

[dn12005]

We shall see. I'm not convinced yet.

 

I get it.

 

But, can the very few Alpine/Renault fans be considered - when hearing all of the 'Alpine/(Renault) selling the team self-fulfilling prophecies' since the team returned in 2016.  It's nauseating...LOL! Especially since we haven't had a lot to cheer about in this same timeframe. 

Edited by dn12005, 10 April 2024 - 18:04.

[FLB]

Never believe anything until it is officially denied: https://www.autohebd...e-a-vendre.html (en francais)

[AlexS]

The problem with Alpine is the problem of basing the team in England, the F1 country with most engineers still has a limited number of quality engineers available, there are no miracles. Renault should have developed its base in France with a core French force, went for the easy and maybe cheap way and obviously can't compete with RedBull, Mercedes, Mclaren, Aston.

[andysaint]

At this stage I wouldn’t be sad to see Renault/Alpine leave and never come back. I’m not sure what they particularly bring to the table apart from filling a couple of spots on the grid. They are in a massive hole that will take a lot of money to dig them out of. They’re certainly not going to get the calibre of driver needed to push them forward. Losing Alonso was a catastrophic mistake.

[loki]

One thing for sure is the value of the team will go up each year they keep it running.

Market theory says that but the real test will be how any sale does on the open market.  Financial types can estimate value but until something sells there is nothing to validate the value estimations.

[Secretariat]

I had previously raised this in the Andretti thread. Somewhat surprised this has not been more widely discussed more broadly as an option or source of the speculation. There are additional investors listed in the article.

 

 

Actors Ryan Reynolds, Rob McElhenney and Michael B. Jordan were part of the team's first wave of investment on behalf of Otro Capital back in June who now own 24% of Alpine. They've since been joined by a number of high profile sports stars in mid-October.

 

 

https://www.sporting...d0b38a534ae07b0

Edited by Secretariat, 10 April 2024 - 20:26.

[Beri]

Arent the Viry facilities also there for building other engines rather than only the F1 programme? How would that work out should someone buy it? Will the other activities be dismantled and housed elsewhere?

[Beri]

I had previously raised this in the Andretti thread. Somewhat surprised this has not been more widely discussed more broadly as an option or source of the speculation. There are additional investors listed in the article.

 

 

 

https://www.sporting...d0b38a534ae07b0

 

And why does this tie to Andretti? American actors and an Italian team? 

[Secretariat]

And why does this tie to Andretti? American actors and an Italian team? 

it was sometime last week or before, due to the speculation regarding Cadillac. 

[Beri]

Its just the same angle as Williams becoming a factory Cadillac team because they are fielding an American driver.

[AustinF1]

Been expecting this one for a while. They've seemed like they were looking for an exit for some time now.

Edited by AustinF1, 10 April 2024 - 21:43.

[AustinF1]

I had previously raised this in the Andretti thread. Somewhat surprised this has not been more widely discussed more broadly as an option or source of the speculation. There are additional investors listed in the article.

 

 

 

https://www.sporting...d0b38a534ae07b0

It's been mentioned a few times in that thread. IMHO the main reasons it hasn't been explored more are because the rumor has never been substantiated and because most people would just rather see Andretti Cadillac get in as an 11th team, as they should be allowed to do.

Edited by AustinF1, 10 April 2024 - 21:20.

[FullThrottleF1]

Williams needs selling
Renault better sell
Stake Kick Whatever needs Audi pronto.
RB is a disgrace and should never be allowed in the first place
Andretti needs to get his team in.

Then we might have a pretty decent grid

[pdac]

Arent the Viry facilities also there for building other engines rather than only the F1 programme? How would that work out should someone buy it? Will the other activities be dismantled and housed elsewhere?

 

I get the impression that the F1 team is the only entity that is rumoured to be up for sale. A condition of the sale would be that the new owners continue to use Renault PUs for the next few years.

[Secretariat]

It's been mentioned a few times in that thread. IMHO the main reasons it hasn't been explored more are because the rumor has never been substantiated and because most people would just rather see Andretti Cadillac get in as an 11th team, as they should be allowed to do.

I think at the end of day, Andretti will be in with no weird circumstances. It seems to me that Alpine will deal with who they know more intimately; especially given the apparent sensitivity around Viry.

[Secretariat]

I think at the end of day, Andretti will be in with no weird circumstances. It seems to me that Alpine will deal with who they know more intimately; especially given the apparent sensitivity around Viry.

i can see a scenario in which a deal is done with Otro Capital, and Otro subsequently works out something with Cadillac.