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Ted Toleman has died


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#1 SophieB

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 06:56

@joesaward
​Ted Toleman, the man who established the team that is now Alpine, has died at 86. He entered F1 in 1981 with the Toleman team and gave Senna his F1 break. He sold the team to Benetton in 1986.  He was involved in powerboats and captained the first Virgin Atlantic Challenger.

 

 

 

Sad news, a pivotal figure in the sport.



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#2 SenorSjon

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 07:16

It is sometimes hard to fathom for me that at the same age as I am now,  someone started a F1 team.



#3 Ruusperi

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 12:00

RIP Ted.

 

Btw, how many F1 team founders are still with us? Peter Sauber, Gérard Larrousse, Giancarlo Minardi, Eddie Jordan, Aguri Suzuki? Don't think you should count Jackie Stewart or Alain Prost, or Ross Brawn.


Edited by Ruusperi, 11 April 2024 - 12:09.


#4 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 12:27

It’s 50/50 now for the current teams.

Deceased: Enzo Ferrari, Bruce McLaren, Sir Frank Williams, Ken Tyrrell and Ted Toleman.

Alive: Jackie (or Paul) Stewart, Peter Sauber, Eddie Jordan, Giancarlo Minardi, and Gene Haas.

#5 paulb

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 12:35

RIP.

 

I saw Senna race the Toleman at Long Beach.



#6 taran

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 12:41

I wonder how the Toleman team would have done if they hadn't unceremoniously jettisoned Pirelli in 1984 in favour of Michelin and found themselves without tyres in 1985 after Michelin withdrew. Toleman eventually solved the problem by acquiring the bankrupt Spirit's Pirelli tyre contract for 1985 but Pirelli refused to supply them in 1986 and Goodyear claimed it was at maximum capacity. So Toleman had to sell (to Benetton). Otherwise, they might have been the Force India's of their time.....

 

RIP Ted Toleman



#7 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 12:47

I wonder how the Toleman team would have done if they hadn't unceremoniously jettisoned Pirelli in 1984 in favour of Michelin and found themselves without tyres in 1985 after Michelin withdrew. Toleman eventually solved the problem by acquiring the bankrupt Spirit's Pirelli tyre contract for 1985 but Pirelli refused to supply them in 1986 and Goodyear claimed it was at maximum capacity. So Toleman had to sell (to Benetton). Otherwise, they might have been the Force India's of their time.....

RIP Ted Toleman


Well by selling to Benetton they became the Red Bull Racing of their time.

#8 Collombin

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 12:51

I saw Senna race the Toleman at Long Beach.


Quite an achievement 😛

#9 noikeee

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 12:54

Quite an achievement 😛


Yeah that's probably wrong, last Long Beach F1 GP was in 83 and Senna joined the sport in 84

#10 ensign14

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 13:06

RIP Ted.

 

Btw, how many F1 team founders are still with us? Peter Sauber, Gérard Larrousse, Giancarlo Minardi, Eddie Jordan, Aguri Suzuki? Don't think you should count Jackie Stewart or Alain Prost, or Ross Brawn.

Ernesto Vita.



#11 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 13:10

Ernesto Vita.


For he is Life itself.

#12 Boxerevo

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 13:30

Yeah that's probably wrong, last Long Beach F1 GP was in 83 and Senna joined the sport in 84

Probably meant Dallas.



#13 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 13:35

Rest in peace.

 

Ted Toleman leaves behind a very strong legacy and influence on F1 even today.



#14 F1matt

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 13:38

Ted Toleman was a true maverick, as well as starting his F1 team if memory serves me right he basically designed an improved version of the car transporter, raced powerboats and cars, got involved in farming in South Africa and ended up in the far east. RIP Ted, I doubt we will ever see the likes of you again. 



#15 Risil

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 13:51

RIP Ted.

 

Btw, how many F1 team founders are still with us? Peter Sauber, Gérard Larrousse, Giancarlo Minardi, Eddie Jordan, Aguri Suzuki? Don't think you should count Jackie Stewart or Alain Prost, or Ross Brawn.

 

Tony Fernandes, John Booth



#16 JacnGille

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 13:53

Sad news.



#17 DeKnyff

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 14:08

RIP Ted Toleman.

  • The team started in 1981 and they were really pathetic at the beginning: they couldn't qualify the cars at 10 of the 12 GPs they contested. Think HRT level of performance.
  • In 1982, they qualified most times, but the Hart engine had horrible reliability and only twice they managed to finish a race.
  • Next year (1983), they sorted reliability by the end of the season and scored points (only six scorers back then) in the last four races of the season.
  • Then, in 1984, they hired Ayrton Senna and, of course, they got their maiden podium at Monaco (could have been a win if the race hadn't been stopped) and another two in Germany in Portugal.

A nice progression from hopeless rookie team to podium scorers in only three years.



#18 Keke Rosberg

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 14:29

RIP Ted Toleman.

  • The team started in 1981 and they were really pathetic at the beginning: they couldn't qualify the cars at 10 of the 12 GPs they contested. Think HRT level of performance.
  • In 1982, they qualified most times, but the Hart engine had horrible reliability and only twice they managed to finish a race.
  • Next year (1983), they sorted reliability by the end of the season and scored points (only six scorers back then) in the last four races of the season.
  • Then, in 1984, they hired Ayrton Senna and, of course, they got their maiden podium at Monaco (could have been a win if the race hadn't been stopped) and another two in Germany in Portugal.

A nice progression from hopeless rookie team to podium scorers in only three years.

 

  • podium at Brands Hatch 84.
  • also pole position at Nurburgring 85 (if we still consider that a Toleman)

Edited by Keke Rosberg, 11 April 2024 - 14:33.


#19 Collombin

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 14:47

  • also pole position at Nurburgring 85 (if we still consider that a Toleman)

If we still consider that the Nürburgring.

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#20 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 15:14

RIP Ted Toleman.

  • The team started in 1981 and they were really pathetic at the beginning: they couldn't qualify the cars at 10 of the 12 GPs they contested. Think HRT level of performance.
  • In 1982, they qualified most times, but the Hart engine had horrible reliability and only twice they managed to finish a race.
  • Next year (1983), they sorted reliability by the end of the season and scored points (only six scorers back then) in the last four races of the season.
  • Then, in 1984, they hired Ayrton Senna and, of course, they got their maiden podium at Monaco (could have been a win if the race hadn't been stopped) and another two in Germany in Portugal.

A nice progression from hopeless rookie team to podium scorers in only three years.

 

  • Had Rory Byrne as designer in F2
  • 2nd in 1979 F2
  • 1st and 2nd 1980 F2 with own car (1st F1 designed by Byrne)
  • Entered F1 powered by a modified Hart F2 engine
  • Senna started his F1 career at Toleman
  • Warwick started his F1 career at Toleman
  • Fabi started his F1 career at Toleman
  • Martini started his F1 career at Toleman (NQ)

At one time or another

  • Alex Hawkridge
  • Rory Byrne
  • Pat Symonds
  • John Gentry
  • Roger Silman

Were with Toleman



#21 Taxi

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 15:28

This thread needs a fine Toleman picture in action. 

  



#22 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 15:58

  • podium at Brands Hatch 84.
  • also pole position at Nurburgring 85 (if we still consider that a Toleman)

They didn’t become Benetton as a constructor until 1986, so we can grant them that pole.

#23 LittleChris

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 16:10

RIP Ted Toleman.

 

Gone to join little brother Bob who died at Snetterton in 1976

 

Motorsport Memorial - Bob Toleman



#24 mclarensmps

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 16:26

Rest in Peace Ted. He was before my time (only just), but his name is etched in the Annals of F1 history and I will forever be grateful for that



#25 DeKnyff

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 16:30

This thread needs a fine Toleman picture in action. 

 

Senna-Monaco-1984.jpg

 

Best day in the history of Toleman.



#26 garoidb

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 17:14

RIP Ted.

 

Btw, how many F1 team founders are still with us? Peter Sauber, Gérard Larrousse, Giancarlo Minardi, Eddie Jordan, Aguri Suzuki? Don't think you should count Jackie Stewart or Alain Prost, or Ross Brawn.

 

Stewart Grand Prix was a newly founded F1 team, evolving from a lower formula team. That's the same as Sauber, Jordan etc. I think Jackie should count alongside them unless there is an argument being made for Paul Stewart being the more important co-founder. Prost and Brawn are, I agree, different in that they took over, and maybe rescued, teams but weren't founders in the same sense.



#27 PlatenGlass

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 17:32

It’s 50/50 now for the current teams.

Deceased: Enzo Ferrari, Bruce McLaren, Sir Frank Williams, Ken Tyrrell and Ted Toleman.

Alive: Jackie (or Paul) Stewart, Peter Sauber, Eddie Jordan, Giancarlo Minardi, and Gene Haas.

There's been some debate in the past as to whether BAR was a new team or an evolution of Tyrrell.

#28 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 April 2024 - 17:41

There's been some debate in the past as to whether BAR was a new team or an evolution of Tyrrell.

 

True and this probably isn't the place for it, but I tend to fall on the "yes" side of things at the moment, thanks to it being the same company.



#29 Risil

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Posted 12 April 2024 - 09:29

Stewart Grand Prix was a newly founded F1 team, evolving from a lower formula team. That's the same as Sauber, Jordan etc. I think Jackie should count alongside them unless there is an argument being made for Paul Stewart being the more important co-founder. Prost and Brawn are, I agree, different in that they took over, and maybe rescued, teams but weren't founders in the same sense.

 

I wonder if there's any real justification for treating founders as more important than the guys who took on an existing but struggling team and got them back on their feet again (OK, still not Prost). But that's a side point. I would count Jackie Stewart. There is no way Paul Stewart could've got the money together on his own, Ford and co were in it because it was Jackie's name on the door. (I expect he was very persuasive.)



#30 WonderWoman61

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Posted 12 April 2024 - 10:49

Rest in Peace Ted Toleman.

#31 maximilian

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Posted 12 April 2024 - 11:30

It was Derek Warwick's drive in his Toleman at Brands Hatch 1982 that captured my imagination as a kid, and from that moment on, I was suddenly actively interested in F1 and pulling for this plucky underdog team.  Had tears in my eyes when they finally scored their first ever points the next year, and super thrilled when they signed Senna.  Equally dismayed when Benetton bought the outfit and the name disappeared forever.



#32 JeanAlesi27

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Posted 12 April 2024 - 14:29

RIP Ted Toleman.