61 replies to this topic

[LolaB0860]

2025 calendar is out.

 

Pretty much as expected (if you've been following this thread) except Suzuka gets swapped to Shanghai as Round 2

 

Spa and Hungaroring also swap places meaning there's odd July gap

 

Usual triple head galores incoming elsewhere

 

Edited by LolaB0860, 12 April 2024 - 15:48.

[Alfisti]

That makes WAY more sense travel wise, WAY more. If they could move Miami back to back with Canada it would be even better.

[PayasYouRace]

Split from the new venues thread. We usually have a separate thread, and there aren’t any new venues so it was OT anyway.

 

Anyway. Still too many races in dodgy countries. Still too many races overall.

[jonpollak]

Dodgy as in against your view that all countries should fall in line with Western morals and ethics ?

Still too many races though, yeah.
Jp

[DeKnyff]

So, countdown thread starts at #98.

[ARTGP]

What's the point of having the pre-season test in Bahrain now?  Its not the season opener so it's not like teams will benefit from leaving their equipment and staying the week.  It's just a travel burden for the teams compared to Barcelona. 

 

More people are likely to visit the Barcelona region for that test also. 

Edited by ARTGP, 12 April 2024 - 17:46.

[MikeTekRacing]

What's the point of having the pre-season test in Bahrain now? 

Money Bahrain pays probably

you are right, no other point

[Goron3]

What's the point of having the pre-season test in Bahrain now? Its not the season opener so it's not like teams will benefit from leaving their equipment and staying the week. It's just a travel burden for the teams compared to Barcelona.

More people are likely to visit the Barcelona region for that test also.

Ensures good weather. That said I'd rather they picked a circuit that didn't host a GP. Dubai Autodrome is the best circuit in the ME.

[William Hunt]

Ensures good weather. That said I'd rather they picked a circuit that didn't host a GP. Dubai Autodrome is the best circuit in the ME.

For racing I would say the Kuwait track is the best one

[ConsiderAndGo]

Back to Aus kicking us off, excellent.

[Clrnc]

Love it. Was just thinking the other day how much I miss looking forward to Australia as the first GP and tadah! 

[sportyskells]

Was not expecting the dates to be said about this early in the season 

[pacificquay]

Dodgy as in against your view that all countries should fall in line with Western morals and ethics ?

Still too many races though, yeah.
Jp

I’m pretty sure most people think we shouldn’t be racing in countries where it’s illegal to be gay, or where the government beheads journalists.

[Heyli]

That makes WAY more sense travel wise, WAY more. If they could move Miami back to back with Canada it would be even better.

Logistically, moving Canada forward to Miami makes more sense though. Then you have a complete Euro block.

[PayasYouRace]

Logistically, moving Canada forward to Miami makes more sense though. Then you have a complete Euro block.

Climatically, not such a good idea though.

[LolaB0860]

Going to Middle-East three separate times (if you count the Bahrain pre-season testing) makes just as little sense as going to North America four separate times

 

But whatever the most positive and important thing is that Australia is back where it belongs, even if only temporarily again

Edited by LolaB0860, 12 April 2024 - 21:12.

[Goron3]

Logistically, moving Canada forward to Miami makes more sense though. Then you have a complete Euro block.

They might be in a similar timezone but this simply wouldn't work from a climate perspective.

Even Montréal's current slot is touch and go.

[LolaB0860]

Are we pretending that Montreal is near Yellowknife or something? Today they had 22 Celsius weather by midday before rain hit apparently. And even if you had only, say 9 degrees and rain from month from now, so? Mid-May date doesn't sound any more horrible than Monza at the end of March or Nurburgring at the end of October.

Edited by LolaB0860, 12 April 2024 - 22:08.

[AustinF1]

Are we pretending that Montreal is near Yellowknife or something? Today they had 22 Celsius weather by midday before rain hit apparently. And even if you had only, say 9 degrees and rain from month from now, so? Mid-May date doesn't sound any more horrible than Monza at the end of March or Nurburgring at the end of October.

That's an outlier though. The average high temperature for today in Montreal is about 10C. The average for early/mid May is about15-17C. Not unbearably cold, but not nearly as nice as June is there. Even in June I've experienced some very chilly days there, and I've only been there twice. It's generally colder and windier out on the Isle, too. Montreal is in its perfect spot on the calendar imho.

Edited by AustinF1, 13 April 2024 - 00:30.

[southernstars]

Australia back to its correct place on the calendar!

 

Glad I booked hotels already "just in case". I got home ten minutes after the announcement and the hotels were booking out already and doubling in price.

[FLB]

Are we pretending that Montreal is near Yellowknife or something? Today they had 22 Celsius weather by midday before rain hit apparently. And even if you had only, say 9 degrees and rain from month from now, so? Mid-May date doesn't sound any more horrible than Monza at the end of March or Nurburgring at the end of October.

Montrealer here. We've had snow storms in April. It generally doesn't go over 20C until mid-May. 

 

 

This spring is exceptional.

[LolaB0860]

Montrealer here. We've had snow storms in April. It generally doesn't go over 20C until mid-May.


This spring is exceptional.

Yes Mid-May is what I'm suggesting.

In my country, much much norther than Montreal, we often still get some snow in May, but generally you can already think of May as summer-ish.

NASCAR Canada starts their season Mid-May in Ontario every year

Edited by LolaB0860, 13 April 2024 - 14:36.

[Dalton007]

Too many races. 

[noikeee]

To match Miami with Montreal, how about moving Miami forward instead of moving Montreal earlier? Like say switching the Barcelona race with the Miami race? Is it a matter of too likely Miami would be wet then?

[jonpollak]

I’m pretty sure most people think we shouldn’t be racing in countries where it’s illegal to be gay, or where the government beheads journalists.

FYI…
F1 and the people that own and run it don’t give a flying fukc .
Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 13 April 2024 - 21:39.

[jonpollak]

To match Miami with Montreal, how about moving Miami forward instead of moving Montreal earlier? Like say switching the Barcelona race with the Miami race? Is it a matter of too likely Miami would be wet then?

There needs to be NO CLASH with the 24 hrs of LeMans.
Jp

[PayasYouRace]

There needs to be NO CLASH with the 24 hrs of LeMans.
Jp

FYI

 

FYI…
F1 and the people that own and run it don’t give a flying fukc .
Jp

[jonpollak]

Too much FYI.
Sorry

Jp

[Victor]

Split from the new venues thread. We usually have a separate thread, and there aren’t any new venues so it was OT anyway.

 

Anyway. Still too many races in dodgy countries. Still too many races overall.

 

Dodgy as in against your view that all countries should fall in line with Western morals and ethics ?

Still too many races though, yeah.
Jp

Dodgy as having uninteresting circuits, no motorsport tradition and no enthusiastic crowd, I think. And yes, far too many races, especially in the USA.

[1player]

Dodgy as having uninteresting circuits, no motorsport tradition and no enthusiastic crowd, I think. And yes, far too many races, especially in the USA.

Austin is fine, the other two I could do without, especially since there are much better circuits in the US of A. Where's my Watkins Glen and Road America?

Yeah yeah, they're not FIA Grade 1 but I don't care.

[hogstar]

24 races is just too much, I'd rather is see it around 18 to 20 with alternate tracks on a two or three year cycle. 

[highdownforce]

I’m pretty sure most people think we shouldn’t be racing in countries where it’s illegal to be gay, or where the government beheads journalists.

Or countries that bomb seven different countries with 27 thousand bombs in a single year.

Or countries that caused more than 10 million deaths to other nations less than 80 years ago.

Or countries that had segregation laws until 60 years ago.

Or countries that hold journalists under custody for reporting war crimes.

Or countries that supply weapons for ethical cleaning, or by UN standards, plain genocide, right now.

Or countries that support coups every other day, whoever they want to coup.

I would go for that.

But then you would have to scrap most of the current calendar.

Edit: BTW, this is by no means a defense of Saudi Arábia or Qatar or anyone.

Edited by highdownforce, 14 April 2024 - 13:27.

[Ruusperi]

I don't think they should race in any country where Freedom Index points are below 70. But since we're talking about Liberty Media, we obviously have a total of 5 races in places where the Freedom Index is below 20 and no races in places with perfect 100 score (in other words Finland, Sweden & Norway). If only money didn't matter...

[Sterzo]

To put on my usual cracked record: governments, not racing people, should decide whether or not to deal with other countries. That would lead to an unholy mess. The racing authorities are struggling to police track limits. I don't want them in charge of deciding international foreign policy.

[PayasYouRace]

To put on my usual cracked record: governments, not racing people, should decide whether or not to deal with other countries. That would lead to an unholy mess. The racing authorities are struggling to police track limits. I don't want them in charge of deciding international foreign policy.

It’s not about deciding international policy. It’s about looking at a country and evaluating if it meets the standard you want to represent and where you want to do business.

[TAFormula1]

So is every year going to be the same tracks now? How boring... literally almost no changes for years now, they should shuffle tracks each year ALOT, only like half should remain, the classics.

[PayasYouRace]

So is every year going to be the same tracks now? How boring... literally almost no changes for years now, they should shuffle tracks each year ALOT, only like half should remain, the classics.

Cf. 1999-2003.

 

This can and does happen from time to time. But there are always races that decide they can’t continue, new venues that want to host, and other reason why there might be changes. When a series is successful and stable it’s not a bad thing.

[highdownforce]

I don't think they should race in any country where Freedom Index points are below 70. But since we're talking about Liberty Media, we obviously have a total of 5 races in places where the Freedom Index is below 20 and no races in places with perfect 100 score (in other words Finland, Sweden & Norway). If only money didn't matter...

Freedom Index country is bullshit propaganda.

[pdac]

He who is without sin ...

[AustinF1]

Austin is fine, the other two I could do without, especially since there are much better circuits in the US of A. Where's my Watkins Glen and Road America?

Yeah yeah, they're not FIA Grade 1 but I don't care.

It's more than just the fact they aren't FIA grade 1 (which is enough all by itself). It's the locations, lack of hotel accommodations, etc. I'd love to see GPs there too, but it won't happen.

 

ETA: Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I'd love to see F1 return to Indy. I'd be all over that. Like Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, IMS knows how to put on a race and how to treat the fans.

Edited by AustinF1, 14 April 2024 - 18:34.

[PayasYouRace]

Freedom Index country is bullshit propaganda.

We’ll use The Economist Democracy Index then.

https://en.m.wikiped...Democracy_Index

[highdownforce]

We’ll use The Economist Democracy Index then.

https://en.m.wikiped...Democracy_Index

The one from The Economist is even worse.

[PayasYouRace]

The one from The Economist is even worse.

Care to explain why?

 

Why is there measure of electoral process, civil liberties, functioning of government, political participation and political culture invalid?

[Ruusperi]

Freedom Index country is bullshit propaganda.

What? Only Putin would say something like that. What about Human rights index? Bullshit as well? There's no difference in human rights when comparing North Korea and New Zealand, or Saudi Arabia and Iceland? You can't be serious.

 

Obviously opinions may differ whether or not sport should be mixed with politics. But even if it shouldn't, I still think it's wrong from IOC, FIFA or Liberty Media to accept money from corrupted governments who only want to use major sports events as a way to highlight their greatness. F1 can show better example than IOC and FIFA.

[PayasYouRace]

Funny how all these different indexes relating to human rights and freedoms tend to group the same countries together in the same places.

[Stephane]

Not sure if funny is the best word.

[PayasYouRace]

Funny as in interesting, thought provoking, bleeding obvious to anyone with have a brain…

[Bleu]

F1 has never had two seasons with exactly same circuits in exactly same order. Some very close calls though:

 

 

2018/2019 had just USA and Mexico swapping

2001/2002 had just Britain and France swapping

1990/1991 had same Grands Prix but France and Spain moving venues.

[Mark A]

Funny how all these different indexes relating to human rights and freedoms tend to group the same countries together in the same places.

I used the Freedom Index to sort the countries mainly because that was the only one with Monaco on it. But the split at Monaco seems to be the split, with no countries moving above or below that line. A few move around within their 'group'.

 

 

                                    Economist Democratic                    Human Rights                    Freedom Index
Netherlands                              9                                                 0.92                                   98

Canada                                    13                                                0.92                                   98

Australia                                   14                                                0.93                                  97

Japan                                       16                                                0.93                                  96

Belgium                                     36                                              0.96                                   96

Austria                                      18                                               0.90                                   93 

UK                                            18                                                0.89                                  93

Spain                                        23                                               0.95                                   90

Italy                                          34                                                0.93                                  90   

USA                                          29                                               0.93                                   83

Monaco                                                                                                                                 83  

Brazil                                       51                                                0.64                                   74

Hungary                                   50                                               0.84                                   69

Mexico                                     90                                               0.68                                   61

Singapore                                69                                               0.70                                    48

Qatar                                      111                                               0.36                                   25

Abu Dhabi                               125                                              0.35                                   17

Bahrain                                   139                                               0.28                                  12

Azerbaijan                               130                                              0.35                                   10

China                                       148                                             0.17                                     9

Saudi Arabia                           150                                              0.14                                     7 

[highdownforce]

What? Only Putin would say something like that. What about Human rights index? Bullshit as well? There's no difference in human rights when comparing North Korea and New Zealand, or Saudi Arabia and Iceland? You can't be serious.

Yep, it is bullshit as well and to hell with Putin.

I give you a clear a vision:

My measures stick is the position of Brazil on those rankings.

You know the rank is dodgy when, in those rankings, you could find above Brazil:

* an apartheid state (one that has spepecific laws for more than 10% of its population)

* a policy state (one that has the largest prisional population on absolute numbers, despite not having the largest population)

* a country with endemic mass shootings and hate crimes

* a country with a fixed democracy, where a political candidate is not sure to be presented as a voting option on all states

* a country that send immigrants back to the ocean

* a country that refuses to receive war refugees

* a country that is committing war crimes

* a country that is custoding journalists to reveal war crimes

* a country that arrests thousands of people during protests

* a country that protects hate speech and fascist demonstrations

* a country that has a fascist party on its congress

* a country that banned all opposition parties

* a country that employs radicalized militias among its official ranks

* a country where it is reported to happen pogroms

* a country where policy brutality rivals with Brazil, despite having a tenth of our number of crime occurrences.


Every time I see a country that is a offender on any of these things above much higher ranked than Brazil is crystal clear that it is a bullshit rank.