208 replies to this topic

[Magoo]

The head of the Tesla Supercharger team has reportedly been hired back, which tends to debunk the theory that she was fired for balking at the headforce reduction. 

 

In Detroit, top Tesla technical people are in high demand and can command big bucks. Not for stealing the company's IP, but for their abilities. 

[Disgrace]

Does it? He fired the team in a fit of rage, and is now reversing that now he's calmed down. A very serious CEO.

[Magoo]

Disgrace, on 14 May 2024 - 15:41, said:

Does it? He fired the team in a fit of rage, and is now reversing that now he's calmed down. A very serious CEO.

 

Oh, he's an absolutely vile person. He's obviously on the spectrum, which is part of his problem, but he's a genuine jerk as well.

 

And wonders be, becoming the richest person on earth doesn't seem to have improved his character at all. What a shock that was for everyone. 

 

But that said, he runs the most interesting volume production auto manufacturing company in my lifetime, and it has shaken the industry to its core. 

 

So yes, I follow Tesla closely. I wouldn't miss it for the world. 

[Greg Locock]

Apple recruited the people I'd have recruited, Tesla recruited others.

[Canuck]

In the US at least, non-competes have been ruled as unlawful / unenforceable just recently. The only ones that are permitted to remain in effect are a specific subset of executives it seems to me (and no new ones are permitted). I worked with a fellow once who, upon his departure it was determined he'd downloaded every technical drawing and schematic in the database to a single thumb drive. IT reported it to management, management reported it to legal, legal let his new employer / our direct competitor know. He didn't work there long from what I understand.

 

Every headcount reduction I've had to roll out, been witness too or been part of has also involved some nonsensical reorganization that is often little more than fiddling while on fire. If we take a company's operations and plot them on X and Y as "getting it done" and "how I got it done", the current multinational I'm with spends all of it's energy on the "how" and absolutely none on the "do". The endless litany of buzzword focus sessions, "new behaviours" roll-outs, internal LinkedIn-style resume polishing, etc etc completely misses the absolutely catastrophic problems crushing the ability to get things done.  Transactional friction and administrative overhead are unlike anything I've ever seen, and I worked for GE under Immelt's tenure.

 

Congrats on the retirement Greg.

[404KF2]

Canuck, on 15 May 2024 - 03:29, said:

...the current multinational I'm with spends all of it's energy on the "how" and absolutely none on the "do". The endless litany of buzzword focus sessions, "new behaviours" roll-outs, internal LinkedIn-style resume polishing, etc etc completely misses the absolutely catastrophic problems crushing the ability to get things done.

I find that HR is the bane of modern workplaces; 40 years ago they did graphology of handwritten application letters to divine who was a good hire and who wasn't. Now the voodoo is slightly more sophisticated and some of the ex-graphology believers have moved into upper management. 100 years ago it would have been phrenology.....

 

Anyway, executive-level management leadership in my organization is absent too and the place is teeming with trend of the month HR hype. The latest is East German-style propaganda posters in the washrooms etc.... the actual work is teetering as a result. Luckily, I have one year left until I can retire with a full pension. It's sad though - a lot of my fellow employees are truly great, capable people and will have to suffer this decline for most of their prime career years (and I know it's not just my employer having this problem).

[jcbc3]

Someone saying autonomous vehicles aren't safer than hoomans..

 

(I've cut it in where he starts talking about the above, but there's more fun stuff before)

 

https://youtu.be/2DOd4RLNeT4?t=815

 

In the comments he refer to his 'x' https://twitter.com/...410056429388037

 

And in that his data: https://docs.google....#gid=1685135584

[gruntguru]

Looks like good info. Shame he spoiled it with a title like "Sorry. Your Car Will Never Drive You Around."

 

Never? Really? (Perhaps he is certain that eveyone watching has less than 10 years to live?)

 

EDIT.

First glance at the "data" posted reveals 12 fatalities in 2022 and 8 fatalities in 2023. Given that a lot more (perhaps double?) the miles would have been driven with FSD in 2023 than 2022, the fatality rate seems to have at least halved in 12 months. So perhaps including accidents all the way back to 2016 is not a good reflection of the current state of the art.

Edited by gruntguru, 16 May 2024 - 03:37.

[Greg Locock]

Yes the quailty of the data on this is very low, not helped by Musk's repeating bad statistics on X.

[Lee Nicolle]

Nathan, on 15 Apr 2024 - 16:45, said:

While Tesla undoubtedly over hired for real world production demand, GM and Toyota also aren't engineering and producing commercial battery banks, solar panels, robots and operating all their dealerships, showrooms and charging stations.

 

In the U.S. Toyota has 1,400 dealers selling 2.1 million cars.  The average automaker linked dealer employs 69, so that's 90,000+. 

Maybe a major capital city dealer with 69. Most are between a dozen to 20. And have more brands and less staff these days. I have been trawling new car houses for well over 30 years buying stock.Not much these days.

[Lee Nicolle]

Saw a cartoon wagon that had been sideswiped on You Tube recently,, tore of the front guard, 2 door skins and the rear 1/4. Not so strong!!  Probably another write off as few can repair them or want to.

[Bloggsworth]

And still making promises it won't keep - Enter the self driving cab, it'll work this time, honest guv, cross my heart and hope to die...

[Magoo]

Bloggsworth, on 12 Oct 2024 - 20:02, said:

And still making promises it won't keep - Enter the self driving cab, it'll work this time, honest guv, cross my heart and hope to die...

 

Just as expected, the Cybercab unveil was an announcement of an announcement coming sometime next year. 

 

Musk constantly overestimates the progress of the self-driving system. When he speaks, the engineers cringe. 

[404KF2]

Lee Nicolle, on 17 May 2024 - 07:26, said:

Saw a cartoon wagon that had been sideswiped on You Tube recently,, tore of the front guard, 2 door skins and the rear 1/4. Not so strong!!  Probably another write off as few can repair them or want to.

 

Ah, the Deplorean.

[BRG]

I find it intriguing how in quite a short time, Musk has moved from being the darling of the progressive liberal eco-aware dot-com community (appearing on the Big Bang Theory washing dishes in a homeless shelter on Thanksgiving for instance) to being a leaping idiot on the stage with Trump and an old school capitalist villain..

[Bloggsworth]

Magoo, on 13 Oct 2024 - 01:26, said:

Just as expected, the Cybercab unveil was an announcement of an announcement coming sometime next year. 

 

Musk constantly overestimates the progress of the self-driving system. When he speaks, the engineers cringe. 

Mind you, his Starship booster catcher worked, very impressive.

[Magoo]

BRG, on 13 Oct 2024 - 08:41, said:

I find it intriguing how in quite a short time, Musk has moved from being the darling of the progressive liberal eco-aware dot-com community (appearing on the Big Bang Theory washing dishes in a homeless shelter on Thanksgiving for instance) to being a leaping idiot on the stage with Trump and an old school capitalist villain..

 

I think Musk lost his charm with the American left some time ago. More recently, he became a darling of the right when he purchased Twitter, which was some time after the left abandoned him. 

 

Like many tech bros, Musk is remarkably gullible on matters of politics and culture. At least once a week he posts some ridiculous right-wing twaddle on X, and then has to take it down when the story proves to be fake. 

 

No offense to our friends on the right. There is plenty of left-wing twaddle, too. 

[Magoo]

I wouldn't know if this is totally clear outside the USA, but Musk is now pretty close to full-blown crazy to judge from his public behavior. But then he always was eccentric. 

 

 

He looks terrible and if one had to guess, it appears the ketamine is taking its toll. 

[404KF2]

Elvis end incoming?

[cbo]

Magoo, on 13 Oct 2024 - 17:07, said:

I wouldn't know if this is totally clear outside the USA, but Musk is now pretty close to full-blown crazy to judge from his public behavior. But then he always was eccentric.


He looks terrible and if one had to guess, it appears the ketamine is taking its toll.

Thanks.

In America everything is bigger. What seems batsh*t-crazy where I live seems to be just slightly odd in the US. So it can be difficult to judge when someone in the US has actually gone off the rails. 😄

[Magoo]

Musk is incredibly naive about politics, even and especially his own. When he bought Twitter I could see it coming a mile away. He is not mature or sophisticated enough to manage free speech on a social media platform.  I could have bet you $1 million going in that Musk's Twitter purchase would be one more case of Free speech for me, but not for thee. 

 

He proved that in the first week when, without their knowledge or permission, he went into the Twitter accounts of the BBC, NPR, and PBS and changed their subheaders to "State sponsored media." This is the act of a petulant 14 year-old, not a social media ombudsman. 

 

He bought Twitter, he said, because he believed it was a covertly left-wing platform, full of sneaky, hidden biases and the dreaded "wokeness." Over the next year, he proceeded to convert it to an overtly right-wing platform. His two-hour softball "interview" of Orange Jesus was a thing to behold. It was more like a two-hour informercial, free of charge. 

 

In his mind, in Twitter Musk was buying a social media and free speech platform. No, it's really an advertising platform, for that is its only significant source of revenue. Large corporations with serious ad budgets don't like controversy of the kind Musk is so talented at generating. They run and hide from it. They don't even like loud noises. I don't see how X can get straightened out as long as Musk owns it, unless he has a sudden emotional growth spurt. 

[Magoo]

Swing and a miss on the Tesla Cybercab in my view. My opinion is not unique. 

 

 

https://www.reuters....rts-2024-10-12/

[BRG]

Magoo, on 13 Oct 2024 - 22:19, said:

Swing and a miss on the Tesla Cybercab in my view. My opinion is not unique. 

 

 

https://www.reuters....rts-2024-10-12/

So it is 3-all for Tesla.

 

Model S, 3 & Y are successes.

 

Big-Rig, Cybertruck and Cybercab are laughable flops.

 

Not counting the Roadster which was a Lotus Elise although it has gone out of this world.

[just me again]

I am not sure Cybercab will be a flop!.

If self-driven Cabs ever will take of globally. Then the cybertruck will be the cheapest to buy and run! Us Tesla 3 owners know about Tesla's efficiency!

Given that price is a factor when ordering a cabride and that most cab-rides are single or 2 person rides. Then I see a risk that in 10 years, family cab-rides are a thing of the past!!!

[Magoo]

I don't know that the Tesla Semi and the Cybertruck are flops. That has yet to be seen. 

 

I see problems for the Cybercab, but not neccessarily in its two-door gullwing design. I'm not sure the autonomous capability will be ready even a year from now. FSD is an amazing system, but I don't think it is up to totally unsupervised operation in a vehicle without driver, wheel, or pedals. 

 

All the other robot taxis are "cheating," so to speak. They're geo-fenced. They operate only on predetermined routes over a curated geographical area. Tesla FSD is truly autonomous. How a cab wouild operate at that level is really complicated when you look at it. 

[Magoo]

My problems with the Cybertruck and Cybercab are more in the realm of product planning and strategy. 

 

When the Cybertuck program began, an electric pickup made all the sense in the world. Full-size pickups are the largest vehicle market in the USA. Given the success of the Model 3 and Model Y, an electric pickup was the natural next step. However, the CT quickly evolved into something else entirely. A Venn diagram of the traditional U.S. pickup market vs the Cybertruck results in two circles in different area codes. The CT is a boutique item. Many successful vehicles have been answers to questions nobody asked, but to me the Cybertuck represents a huge loss in opportunity cost in the market, not to mention all the time and resources that could have been spent elsewhere. 

 

And the Cybercab: Even if wildly successful, it will not be a high-volume vehicle in the next five years, if ever. And priced at $30,000, it will never be a high-margin product. 

 

Both these products seem to be driven by Musk's personal interest more than the company's strategic needs and objectives. 

 

The product cadence is wrong. Before the radical Cybertruck or the Cybercab, the next product should have been the Tesla 2 aka low-price Tesla. If, as Musk says, Tesla's no. 1 objective is speeding the auto industry's transition from ICE to EVs, the Tesla 2 should have been next. Instead, the company got sidetracked on two products of problematic market value. 

 

If nothing else, this demonstrates that ultimately, Tesla is not run by an executive committee or a product chief, but by Elon Musk. 

Edited by Magoo, 14 October 2024 - 11:38.

[Nathan]

just me again, on 14 Oct 2024 - 10:05, said:

 Then I see a risk that in 10 years, family cab-rides are a thing of the past!!!

 

If they can get RoboTaxis driving themselves then the family of 4 can Uber my self-driving 5 seat car while I'm watching TV.

[Nathan]

Magoo, on 14 Oct 2024 - 11:29, said:

to me the Cybertuck represents a huge loss in opportunity cost in the market, not to mention all the time and resources that could have been spent elsewhere. 

 

Aren't CT sales almost 2:1 versus the Lightning?

 

I imagine Tesla looks at ever model as profit/battery kwh.  It doesn't make sense to push forward Tesla 2 if its current economics aren't very profitable (Aren't we always talking about Musk overestimating?), or if the company can make more $$ off given battery supply and factory capacity doing something with more margin.

[Wuzak]

Magoo, on 14 Oct 2024 - 11:03, said:

I don't know that the Tesla Semi and the Cybertruck are flops. That has yet to be seen.

The Semi certainly hasn't taken off, and the Cybertruck has, as you have noted elsewhere, a somewhat limited market.

 

Magoo, on 14 Oct 2024 - 11:03, said:

I see problems for the Cybercab, but not neccessarily in its two-door gullwing design. I'm not sure the autonomous capability will be ready even a year from now. FSD is an amazing system, but I don't think it is up to totally unsupervised operation in a vehicle without driver, wheel, or pedals.

The big issue is that autonomous operation of vehicles is not yet legal in most places in the world.

 

FSD is certainly not a fully autonomous system.

 

Magoo, on 14 Oct 2024 - 11:03, said:

All the other robot taxis are "cheating," so to speak. They're geo-fenced. They operate only on predetermined routes over a curated geographical area. Tesla FSD is truly autonomous. How a cab wouild operate at that level is really complicated when you look at it.

The "other" robo-taxis are operating.

 

Sure, their operating is limited, but that is likely due to only having permission to operate in those (small) areas.

 

FSD does use data gathered from the Tesla fleet to improve FSD operation. So, in that sense, it is curated.

 

Talking about predetermined routes, isn't that what was happening at the cybercab event?

 

If it wasn't that, it was all the guys standing in the shadows remotely operating the cabs.

 

Like the Tesla robots being remotely controlled by people to do tasks that don't really require humanoid robots.

 

 

And what was with the rolling toaster?

 

Making a bus without the capacity of a bus?

[Magoo]

Wuzak, on 14 Oct 2024 - 16:14, said:

The big issue is that autonomous operation of vehicles is not yet legal in most places in the world.

 

 

Quite right--and an important fact I neglected to include. One more reason the Cybercab cannot achieve volume or profitability until a number of years out. 

[kikiturbo2]

Magoo, on 14 Oct 2024 - 11:03, said:

 Tesla FSD is truly autonomous. How a cab wouild operate at that level is really complicated when you look at it. 

 

which would make it a level 5 system? But it is not...

 

Other autonomous cab services also use remote guidance by a human operator, when they get stuck.. .still some way off autonomy..

 

One thing I do not understand about the cybercab, and also our local project, verne, is the design of the cab... In a world where the major deciding factor in new car purchase is the height of the seats (i.e. popularity of crossovers and similar) they make a low slung two seater that can not be fully boarded from the curb side..
 

[Magoo]

kikiturbo2, on 15 Oct 2024 - 17:49, said:

which would make it a level 5 system? But it is not...

 

Other autonomous cab services also use remote guidance by a human operator, when they get stuck.. .still some way off autonomy..

 

One thing I do not understand about the cybercab, and also our local project, verne, is the design of the cab... In a world where the major deciding factor in new car purchase is the height of the seats (i.e. popularity of crossovers and similar) they make a low slung two seater that can not be fully boarded from the curb side..
 

 

 

Tesla FSD is definitely not Level 5. The Cybercab reportedly uses a new CPU that still relies on computer vision but with extended Ai capabilities. 

 

One more reason Musk is out way over his skis on the timeline for adoption. 

 

I do not understand the Cybercab's physical design at all, except as an extension of Trump's vision i.e. ego. Apparently, there's a science-fiction movie of these little things zipping around in his head, where they serve not as taxis, exactly, but as replacements for conventional driver-owned household vehicles. You know, the mobility scenario, which is many decades from now except in his mind. When it fails, people can say "he was ahead of his time."

[Magoo]

Another savage review.

 

Brings up another point I neglected to raise: There is no charging port in the current plan. All charging is done inductively. Allegedly. There is no reason to do that. 

 

 

https://futurism.com...m_term=Futurism

[Wuzak]

Magoo, on 15 Oct 2024 - 23:28, said:

I do not understand the Cybercab's physical design at all, except as an extension of Trump's vision i.e. ego. Apparently, there's a science-fiction movie of these little things zipping around in his head, where they serve not as taxis, exactly, but as replacements for conventional driver-owned household vehicles. You know, the mobility scenario, which is many decades from now except in his mind. When it fails, people can say "he was ahead of his time."

 

It's probably from a movie he saw in his youth.

 

Maybe from Total Recall, except without the "driver".

[Wuzak]

Magoo, on 15 Oct 2024 - 23:28, said:

Tesla FSD is definitely not Level 5. The Cybercab reportedly uses a new CPU that still relies on computer vision but with extended Ai capabilities. 

 

Is it even Level 3?

 

A question I have wondered about - is it legal to use FSD without having at least one hand on the steering wheel?

[BRG]

kikiturbo2, on 15 Oct 2024 - 17:49, said:

 

One thing I do not understand about the cybercab, and also our local project, verne, is the design of the cab... In a world where the major deciding factor in new car purchase is the height of the seats (i.e. popularity of crossovers and similar) they make a low slung two seater that can not be fully boarded from the curb side..

 

No good for London then.  Our black cabs are still required to have enough headroom to allow a man to wear a top hat in the cab.  And they are supposed to carry a hay-bale to feed the horse.

[Bloggsworth]

Magoo, on 15 Oct 2024 - 23:45, said:

Another savage review.

 

Brings up another point I neglected to raise: There is no charging port in the current plan. All charging is done inductively. Allegedly. There is no reason to do that. 

 

 

https://futurism.com...m_term=Futurism

Just what people fitted with heart pacemakers need, random high powered induction loops dotted around the place; I was told that, if I have a pacemaker fitted the induction hob will have to go...

[Magoo]

BRG, on 16 Oct 2024 - 08:03, said:

No good for London then.  Our black cabs are still required to have enough headroom to allow a man to wear a top hat in the cab.  And they are supposed to carry a hay-bale to feed the horse.

 

Time to mention for those here who may have known him that Bill Munro passed away last week.

 

Bill was a tireless automotive researcher and historian and the author of a number of remarkable books, including a history of Ferguson four-wheel drive and the Haynes manual on the Austin black cab. He was working on a comprehensive history of Budd all-steel bodies when cancer took him. He was also a master of puns, proficient at ballroom dancing, and an actual London cab driver. 

[Magoo]

Wuzak, on 16 Oct 2024 - 05:04, said:

Is it even Level 3?

 

A question I have wondered about - is it legal to use FSD without having at least one hand on the steering wheel?

 

 

Legality is not an issue here in the USA, but the FSD system is configured so that the driver must keep a hand on the wheel. 

[Magoo]

Nathan, on 14 Oct 2024 - 13:18, said:

Aren't CT sales almost 2:1 versus the Lightning?

 

I imagine Tesla looks at ever model as profit/battery kwh.  It doesn't make sense to push forward Tesla 2 if its current economics aren't very profitable (Aren't we always talking about Musk overestimating?), or if the company can make more $$ off given battery supply and factory capacity doing something with more margin.

 

 

Tesla has sold nearly 17,000 Cybertrucks in 2024 as of October 1, which is fewer than Musk forecast (what isn't?) but far more than many predicted. That's a lot of $100,000+ pickup trucks in anyone's estimation. 

 

 

I don't know if we can say these numbers are good or bad at this point, as the Cybertruck is selling into a boutique market. Traditionally, the sales arc for such vehicles is steep but short. Sales are brisk at first but then dwindle as the enthusiastic but limited demand is satisfied. Also, the novelty factor dissipates. If somone else in your circle already has one, no need for you to get one too. With a new and unusual vehicle, the focus tends to be on the initial reception when really, how it's selling two years out will tell if it's a hit or a miss. 

[MikeTekRacing]

Magoo, on 16 Oct 2024 - 11:17, said:

Legality is not an issue here in the USA, but the FSD system is configured so that the driver must keep a hand on the wheel. 

no it is not. It has eye tracking now. 

[Magoo]

MikeTekRacing, on 16 Oct 2024 - 15:19, said:

no it is not. It has eye tracking now. 

 

You are correct. I forgot about the update. It didn't change my personal driving style. 

[MikeTekRacing]

it's tuned pretty well, i noticed it complains even when I look at my watch or something. I am happy they made it work with sunglasses

I clearly like the improvements overall in FSD, although the latest one I got feels a bit more jerky when adapting to speed (it was quite a bit smoother).

The only reasons I am disengaging today is because i want to merg more aggressively, humans are giving me bad vibes and FSD is just allowing everyone to safely to whatever they want around..which is what we want from the system, but not what I like when I am also in the driving seat. If I were in the back, doing emails, I could care less

Edited by MikeTekRacing, 16 October 2024 - 17:08.

[Magoo]

I confess I don't often use FSD in normal daily driving. I mainly bought it to see how it works, and to check on the progress of the continual updates. I won't say it doesn't work well. IMO FSD is far ahead of anything else on the market. The first time the Tesla drove itself through a roundabout I was flabbergasted. I didn't think we would see that capability in a regular production car for years. 

 

In highway driving it works great. Except for a rare phantom braking event now and then, pretty much perfectly. But on surface streets in traffic, it doesn't drive the way I do. It pulls out in ways that may disconcert other drivers, cuts closer than I would when maneuvering around stopped vehicles, doesn't share my ideas about lane discipline, etc.

 

FSD is more abrupt and aggressive than I am in braking, turning, and accelerating. I typically run a 98 in the Tesla Safety Score monitoring system. In my view, FSD would do around 70 to 75 if it was being scored. Which is not to say FSD is unsafe. I do believe it is probably safer than the majority of drivers. I just prefer my driving to FSD operation. To me, it's like sitting in the passenger seat with a student driver behind the wheel. 

 

When the price of FSD briefly rose to $15,000 USD, I told people not to buy it. I didn't see the value at that cost. Now at $8,000 it's more reasonable. But I still consider it a sort of gadget, which may simply be my mindset. I'm already in the driver seat and I'd rather be driving myself. 

[GreenMachine]

MikeTekRacing, on 16 Oct 2024 - 17:07, said:

it's tuned pretty well, i noticed it complains even when I look at my watch or something. I am happy they made it work with sunglasses

I clearly like the improvements overall in FSD, although the latest one I got feels a bit more jerky when adapting to speed (it was quite a bit smoother).

The only reasons I am disengaging today is because i want to merg more aggressively, humans are giving me bad vibes and FSD is just allowing everyone to safely to whatever they want around..which is what we want from the system, but not what I like when I am also in the driving seat. If I were in the back, doing emails, I could care less

 

Strikes a chord.

 

Back an age ago when we were discussion self-driving cars in another thread I expressed a view on humans 'gaming' the robodrivers, forcing them to act defensively.  I am glad to see my take on the robodriver/human interface was close to the mark. 

[MikeTekRacing]

True, but that has an easy fix. These cars can record and report…

[Greg Locock]

Perhaps when AVs become the majority they will shepherd manually driven cars down the road. Politely but persistently. 

[cbo]

Magoo, on 16 Oct 2024 - 17:40, said:

IMO FSD is far ahead of anything else on the market. The first time the Tesla drove itself through a roundabout I was flabbergasted. I didn't think we would see that capability in a regular production car for years.

Had the same feeling when driving a friends VW ID.5....🙂

I haven't tried Teslas full FSD system, but in terms of basic assistant systems ("autopilot") I think other manufacturers are probably better. At least that is what I get from people driving Tesla and other vehicles.

Magoo, on 16 Oct 2024 - 17:40, said:

In highway driving it works great. Except for a rare phantom braking event now and then, pretty much perfectly. But on surface streets in traffic, it doesn't drive the way I do. It pulls out in ways that may disconcert other drivers, cuts closer than I would when maneuvering around stopped vehicles, doesn't share my ideas about lane discipline, etc.

FSD is more abrupt and aggressive than I am in braking, turning, and accelerating. I typically run a 98 in the Tesla Safety Score monitoring system. In my view, FSD would do around 70 to 75 if it was being scored. Which is not to say FSD is unsafe. I do believe it is probably safer than the majority of drivers. I just prefer my driving to FSD operation. To me, it's like sitting in the passenger seat with a student driver behind the wheel.

The "jerkiness" of Teslas autopilot, EAP and FSD is another observation I hear when a comparison is made with other systems. I've driven Ford and VW and their basic systems are quite smooth and easy to live with.

Is Teslas systems still disconnecting when the driver interfers? That is one thing that seems to annoy people, as other systems just let you make corrections, then continue.

Curiously, I don't think I've ever had phantom braking (braking for something that is not there) in my 2018 Kia....😄

It is not an advanced system by todays standards, but when it brakes unnecessarily, it is because it has caught something, typically in curves, where it catches a slow moving vehicle in the slow lane. And you can avoid that by positioning yourself correctly.

Edited by cbo, 17 October 2024 - 06:53.

[Magoo]

Comparisons of Tesla FSD to Ford Blue Cruise and similar systems miss the mark. Apples vs. oranges. FSD operates on city surface streets in two-way traffic. 

[cbo]

Magoo, on 17 Oct 2024 - 07:09, said:

Comparisons of Tesla FSD to Ford Blue Cruise and similar systems miss the mark. Apples vs. oranges. FSD operates on city surface streets in two-way traffic.

As I understand it, Tesla offers three systems:

Autopilot, including various safety systems, which comes as standard and can be compared with the basic systems in any other car.

Enhanced Autopilot, which offers additional features like automatic lane change and automatic functionally based on navigation. That's an extra and similar systems are available in other cars like BMW.

Full Self Driving which can stop at traffic lights and stop signs and navigate lanes in city traffic. Its also an extra. AFAIK some other manufacturers have similar functions as well (BMW?).

I think it can be argued that the basic systems - "autopilot" - are just as good in other cars as they are in a Tesla, in some cases better.

As for the enhanced features, Tesla may be better, but I would question whether they are good enough (your post suggests not) and if they are something the average drive would actually want and need?
They would be usefull if you can take a nap or read a book while driving, but we are not quite there year, are we?

I cannot help the feeling that people are paying good money to become labrats in Elon Musks quest to build robot vehicles and make the driver redundant...🙂