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Team Penske found cheating at Indycar St. Petersburg - Cars Disqualified (Split)


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#1 Anja

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:04

Newgarden and McLaughlin disqualified from St. Pete results!  :eek:

 

https://www.indycar....tpete-penalties



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#2 SenorSjon

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:06

And we think F1 stewards are slow...



#3 CSF

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:12

Penske DQ's Penske.  :eek:



#4 maximilian

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:15

Doesn't really fill you with confidence when [the guy who runs the series]' team cheats  :stoned:  :eek:



#5 Jellyfishcake

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:16

McLaughlin DNF'd anyway didn't he?

 

If you're going to get a DSQ may as well not finish the race anyway.



#6 Frood

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:19

McLaughlin DNF'd anyway didn't he?

If you're going to get a DSQ may as well not finish the race anyway.

No, he finished 3rd - it's St. Pete they were disqualified from, not Long Beach - hence O'Ward inherits the win from Newgarden.

Edited by Frood, 24 April 2024 - 14:49.


#7 Afterburner

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:21

WOW

That’s a shock. Looks like it was about a clear-cut call as it gets. Huge impact on the championship for sure, and not going to help those rumors that Newgarden is taking offers from other teams…

EDIT: I just realized this may have massively forked my fantasy score… :rotfl:

EDIT 2: Yep. Had Newgarden on my team, picked as the winner, and O’Ward picked for 2nd. LOL whatever.

#8 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:24

Newgarden and McLaughlin disqualified from St. Pete results! :eek:

https://www.indycar....tpete-penalties


Wow! Amazed that they’d cheat in such a way, and that it’s taken so long for this to come to light. Did they also try this at Long Beach?

#9 H0R

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:24

What the actual f?



#10 Anja

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:24

And we think F1 stewards are slow...

 

To be fair this was only discovered during the Long Beach weekend, after which they went back to check old data. Wonder what would've happened if they raced with this cheat for longer. Come to think of it, one has to wonder about previous seasons now...



#11 Muppetmad

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:26

Ooof. That could decide the championship come the end of the year, but you can't let stuff like this fly, so well done to IndyCar for taking the decision.



#12 Afterburner

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:26

To be fair this was only discovered during the Long Beach weekend, after which they went back to check old data. Wonder what would've happened if they raced with this cheat for longer. Come to think of it, one has to wonder about previous seasons now...

Cindric said it was an ECU mode that wasn’t changed back properly from testing, but if you wanted to say something that excluded consideration of prior events that would be it.

#13 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:28

Cindric said it was an ECU mode that wasn’t changed back properly from testing, but if you wanted to say something that excluded consideration of prior events that would be it.


It’s such an Option 13 type excuse.

#14 GlenWatkins

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:28

Wow! I will be interested to hear what Roger has to say. And the crew chiefs & drivers for that matter.

The testing comment is pure nonsense.

Edited by GlenWatkins, 24 April 2024 - 14:29.


#15 FLB

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:29

It’s such an Option 13 type excuse.

They've been caught red-handed, IMHO.



#16 Sabre1977

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:32

Ooof. That could decide the championship come the end of the year, but you can't let stuff like this fly, so well done to IndyCar for taking the decision.

 

I have the impression that if it would happened in F1 nothing would be revealed and suddenly a team would have a massive drop of performance.



#17 GlenWatkins

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:40

I'm calling B.S. on Cindric. The drivers knew to use P2P at the restarts.

#18 Afterburner

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:43

I'm calling B.S. on Cindric. The drivers knew to use P2P at the restarts.

I mean in fairness if you’re a driver and determine you can deploy extra horsepower, you’re going to shoot first and ask questions later.

#19 Frood

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:45

WOW

That’s a shock. Looks like it was about a clear-cut call as it gets. Huge impact on the championship for sure, and not going to help those rumors that Newgarden is taking offers from other teams…

EDIT: I just realized this may have massively forked my fantasy score… :rotfl:

EDIT 2: Yep. Had Newgarden on my team, picked as the winner, and O’Ward picked for 2nd. LOL whatever.


Yep. I dropped from 8th to 21st for St. Pete. :lol:

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#20 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:45

They've been caught red-handed, IMHO.


Indeed. The actual offence is more like Toyota’s WRC turbo shenanigans.

#21 Anja

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:48

Zrzut-ekranu-2024-04-24-164745.png



#22 Mohican

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:49

Team Penske.
Josef Newgarden.
Scott McLaughlin.

Cheats.

#23 Sabre1977

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 14:50

I mean in fairness if you’re a driver and determine you can deploy extra horsepower, you’re going to shoot first and ask questions later.

 

Will Power disagrees. :rolleyes:  

 

 

 

It was determined that the No. 2 and the No. 3 gained a competitive advantage by using Push to Pass on restarts while the No. 12 did not.


#24 juicy sushi

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:08

Well, that's an interesting turn of events.  So, it would be interesting to look back at previous events and see how often it seemed like Penske cars were having very strong initial restarts.  I would also like to know what the method of the cheating was.  If they were using P2P on restarts when others could not, was it a bit of extra code which enabled the normal code to be bypassed, was it a separate electronic device blocking the conventional signal, or what?  



#25 Disgrace

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:15

Cindric said it was an ECU mode that wasn’t changed back properly from testing, but if you wanted to say something that excluded consideration of prior events that would be it.

 

The Benetton traction control excuse! Exclusion from one race is a very light penalty. I do wonder how long this has been going on for.



#26 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:17

Doesn't really fill you with confidence when [the guy who runs the series]' team cheats  :stoned:  :eek:

On the contrary – his team is not above the law :)



#27 Silberpfeil

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:21

Shame for all the fans who attended (especially the Pato & Newgarden ones), but that excuse from Penske is genuinely hilarious.

#28 Frood

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:24

Also means that new IndyCar titan Kyffin Simpson scored a fastest lap on début.

#29 CSF

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:27

I wonder why Power didn't use it. 



#30 Dolph

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:28

Team Penske.
Josef Newgarden.
Scott McLaughlin.

Cheats.


Team Penske cheats!?

50+ year old news.

#31 Disgrace

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:28

I wonder what Ericsson thinks of the final restart of last year's Indy 500 now.



#32 Mohican

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:36

I wonder what Ericsson thinks of the final restart of last year's Indy 500 now.


Was just thinking the same thing; somebody should ask Chip Ganassi his opinion.
What a scandal if true.

#33 juicy sushi

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:46

I wonder what Ericsson thinks of the final restart of last year's Indy 500 now.

P2P isn't a thing on the ovals, and Newgarden didn't get a jump on the restart that would indicate he had some kind of significant power edge.  But I would be very interested in looking at previous road course events in the last couple of years to see what the data shows.



#34 GlenWatkins

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:54

They cheated on a road course, who's to say they didn't use P2P on an oval?

Edited by GlenWatkins, 24 April 2024 - 15:54.


#35 Risil

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 15:54

Last Indycar winner to be subsequently disqualified? It's not Al Jr at Portland in 1995, is it?

(I can think of a few illegal cars that kept their wins, mind you.)

#36 Disgrace

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:06

P2P isn't a thing on the ovals, and Newgarden didn't get a jump on the restart that would indicate he had some kind of significant power edge.  But I would be very interested in looking at previous road course events in the last couple of years to see what the data shows.

 

Oh yeah, of course, conspiratorial brain fart.



#37 Laster

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:08

That is surprising. I'm stunned it took a month to come to light, and I'm struggling to excuse the drivers in this when they should know the rules on restarts. It's difficult to see this as anything other than cheating with intent and I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

#38 Risil

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:12

I wonder if being racing drivers they all smash the P2P button on restarts fully knowing it won't do anything, like at a zebra crossing when you keep pushing the button to make the green man appear sooner.

#39 uzsjgb

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:15

I wonder why Power didn't use it. 

 

I can only think of two reasons:

1. He didn't know it was active, so he had no reason to press the button. Which raises the question why Penske would tell the other two, but not him.

2. He is not a cheater. He knew it was active and didn't use it.



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#40 Afterburner

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:18

I wonder if being racing drivers they all smash the P2P button on restarts fully knowing it won't do anything, like at a zebra crossing when you keep pushing the button to make the green man appear sooner.

I’m not a racing driver but I mash the boost button like a coked up monkey before the start line on F-Zero 99.

#41 maximilian

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:19

I wonder why Power didn't use it. 

 

He had the willpower not to compromise his integrity.  Shame he still got docked 10 points for not doing anything.



#42 Disgrace

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:23

I can only think of two reasons:

1. He didn't know it was active, so he had no reason to press the button. Which raises the question why Penske would tell the other two, but not him.

2. He is not a cheater. He knew it was active and didn't use it.

 

It's also possible that he's been in the game for so long that he simply forgot about this new illicit power-up.



#43 Anja

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:24

1. He didn't know it was active, so he had no reason to press the button. Which raises the question why Penske would tell the other two, but not him.

 

Conspiracy on top of conspiracy, I like it.



#44 FLB

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:33

The more I read about it (and especially how it was discovered), the angrier I'm getting. 

 

 

If Honda needed any excuse to walk away...


Edited by FLB, 24 April 2024 - 18:15.


#45 Afterburner

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:36

Conspiracy on top of conspiracy, I like it.

If I’m part of a large organization and I’ve found a way to cheat, and I’ve decided to go chaotic evil and use it, those involved are going to be on a need-to-know basis, i.e. it’s not getting brought up in meetings or debriefs.

This line of reasoning is why I can believe the Shank scam at Daytona last year really was the work of one person. If you trust that those around you on your team are following the rules you’ll be less likely to question anomalies.

I can also believe that team owners who want to win are not going to be closely questioning the methods of their employees in certain areas for this reason.

#46 Silverstone96

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:41

Wow this is big and I don’t think it’s going to be the end of it.

The fact Power didn’t use it but his teammates did is really incriminating, rarely these days do you get blatant and intentional cheating.

I imagine the other teams are going to be fuming that the punishment for Newgarden and McLaughlin isn’t greater, disqualification from one race seems very light to me when you consider the deed.

Edited by Silverstone96, 24 April 2024 - 16:45.


#47 Disgrace

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:43

The more Iread about it (and especially how it was discovered), the angrier I'm getting. 

 

 

If Honda needed any excuse to walk away...

 

Scotty Mac tarnishing himself with this is probably the saddest part...



#48 CSF

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:45

I didn't realise there was apparently some beef between the 2 and the 3 too?



#49 red stick

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:46

I can also believe that team owners who want to win are not going to be closely questioning the methods of their employees in certain areas for this reason.


My personal observation of this phenomenon in another field of endeavor is that it ends poorly and ripples in unpleasant but wholly predictable ways. Poor excuse for lax supervision.

#50 Afterburner

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 16:49

My personal observation of this phenomenon in another field of endeavor is that it ends poorly and ripples in unpleasant but wholly predictable ways. Poor excuse for lax supervision.

Maybe karma is a thing after all.