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Alternate Reality Senna to Williams in 1992.


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#1 TAFormula1

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Posted 18 May 2024 - 22:10

Senna had an option and a contract already to go to Williams in 1992, sadly he choose to stay at McLaren because of honda.

Quite interesting how different history could have potentially be, ChatGPT made a summary of it (Obviously its all relative but still fun to see):

 

Hypothetical scenario: Ayrton Senna at Williams (1992-1997)

 

1992 season

Actual season:

Williams-Renault was the dominant car, with Nigel Mansell winning the championship with 9 wins and 14 pole positions.

Hypothetical scenario:

Ayrton Senna would be in an equally dominant car as Mansell.
With his talent and experience, Senna would likely have won a similar number of wins and pole positions.

Estimated number of wins: 8
Estimated number of pole positions: 13
Championship: 1st place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Ayrton Senna
Nigel Mansell
Michael Schumacher

1993 season

Actual season:

Prost won the championship with Williams and Senna was second with McLaren.

Hypothetical scenario:

Senna would have the same conditions as Prost and would fight for the championship.
His ability in the rain would bring additional wins.

Estimated number of wins: 7
Estimated number of pole positions: 12
Championship: 1st place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Ayrton Senna
Alain Prost
Damon Hill

1994 season

Actual season:

Senna died tragically in Imola. Michael Schumacher won the championship.

Hypothetical scenario:

Senna would have a difficult season with the new regulations and would battle with Schumacher.
His adaptability would also make him successful in technical challenges.

Estimated number of wins: 6
Estimated number of pole positions: 10
Championship: 1st place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Ayrton Senna
Michael Schumacher
Damon Hill

1995 season

Actual season:

Michael Schumacher won the championship with Benetton-Renault.

Hypothetical scenario:

Williams had a competitive car, but less dominant than in previous years.
Senna would still battle Schumacher for the title.

Estimated number of wins: 5
Estimated number of pole positions: 8
Championship: 2nd place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Michael Schumacher
Ayrton Senna
Damon Hill

 

1996 season

Actual season:

Damon Hill won the championship with Williams.

Hypothetical scenario:

Senna would have a better car than in 1995 and would be a major contender for the title.
He would be more consistent than Hill because of his ability and experience.

Estimated number of wins: 8
Estimated number of pole positions: 10
Championship: 1st place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Ayrton Senna
Damon Hill
Jacques Villeneuve

1997 season

Actual season:

Jacques Villeneuve won the championship with Williams.

Hypothetical scenario:

Senna would fight with Villeneuve, but his experience and strategy would give him the edge.

Estimated number of wins: 7
Estimated number of pole positions: 11
Championship: 1st place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Ayrton Senna
Jacques Villeneuve
Michael Schumacher

Ayrton Senna's total statistics after 1997

Wins:
82
Pole positions: 129
Championships: 8


Edited by TAFormula1, 18 May 2024 - 22:11.


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#2 lyntonh

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Posted 18 May 2024 - 23:30

Pointlessness at its finest.



#3 LittleChris

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 00:31

According to my version of Chatbollox , Ayrton fell off his pushbike en route to the Williams factory trying to run a small car off the road and broke his leg so badly he never drove again, ended up as President of BraZil, turned it into a theocracy and is shunned by the rest of the world  :wave:   


Edited by LittleChris, 19 May 2024 - 00:37.


#4 Zippel

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 01:20

This scenario seems to assume there are 3 Williams-Renaults in some of those championships.



#5 Catalina Park

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 03:10

Ooooo, fan fiction. 

In my alternate reality in 1988 James Hunt gets sick of blathering with Murray and decides to make his comeback, after testing with various teams he manages to upset both the Japanese and the French, leaving them to pull out of supplying British teams entirely. Hunt returns to the commentary booth.
In 1994 Three time world champion Tommy Byrne switches from the increasingly uncompetitive McLaren Lada team to Peugeot and takes his fourth championship. 



#6 AJCee

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 06:25

I thought Jonny Herbert won in 1994 after he didn’t have his Brands crash in 1988?

#7 BRG

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 10:12

Interesting it doesn't factor in all the many, many times that Senna and Schumacher would have knocked each other out of contention, leaving Damon Hill as a five time WDC.



#8 F1Frog

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 10:22

I think you should ignore ChatGPT and do it with your own personal judgement. Prost would not have gone to Williams in 1993 if Senna wasn't there, and certainly Hill wouldn't have been third if Prost and Senna were in the Williamses, but ChatGPT doesn't know details like that. Personally, I believe Senna would have swept up every one of those six titles had he driven for Williams and survived, although 1995 would have been extremely close and a truly fascinating season.



#9 Vitesse2

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 11:42

As I think has already been demonstrated, late 1980s/early 1990s F1 is a period which is not particularly favoured by TNF regulars, given that some events - and certain drivers - are (shall we say) divisive. As a new(ish) member the OP was probably not aware of that. The reaction was pretty much what I expected.

 

It will, I think, get a more positive response in RC, even though it is discussing possible events of thirty years ago.



#10 10kDA

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 12:25

OK then -

After having been away from driving for years, Pete Aron returned to Grand Prix racing in 1996, thirty years after his first title season. Having been willed the racing division by the late Yamura San in gratitude for winning four consecutive WDC titles, 1966 thru 1970, followed by four consecutive FIM 500cc riding championships, Aron calculated the time was right to revisit GP racing with the renamed Team Yamuraron. Aron had lost nothing in his time away, outqualifying all other competitors by at least 5 sec at each event. Aron won the title in a walk, lapping the field in every race except for that one time Alan Jones got his lap back when Aron lost time repairing his car and pushing it back on course after a flat tire sent him off track, end over end and bursting into flames.

 

After proving his point in EffWun - again - Aron and Yamuraron entered Le Mans with a prototype designed and built over a period of "Two, maybe three days" according to Yamuraron team manager Carroll Shelby. "We built only the one, that's all we need." Aron and codriver James Hunt dominated the race, finishing the 24 hour event in 23 hours, but were disqualified after Hunt failed the post-race drug test, having drunk gallon of ice cold poison at breakfast.

 

Fallout

 

The "Yamuraron" portmanteau caused rippling waves of outrage and ultimately violence when it was realized it could be pronounced correctly only by native Japanese speakers - after a fashion - and John Bisignano. "The most popular team in the paddock" had armies of rabid fans at every event and fan pressure caused the firings of all GP venues' track announcers. Things came to a head at the 1996 season's final race at Pyongyang. The emboldened track announcers' union members, flown in for the race, clashed with the hard-drinking Yamuraron Fan Club. The battle settled into a stalemate lasting well into the next week, long after everyone else had got on with their lives.

 

Sources: ChatGPTPedia. The "GP" is for "Grand Prix" so don't even start.



#11 Collombin

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 12:44

As Senna died in a Williams, surely the key alternate reality here is him surviving that. Having him winning the 1992 and 1993 titles if he'd already been at Williams is hardly something that we need the vast wisdom of ChatGPT to tell us.

What's more interesting is that early to mid 1990s stuff is deemed more suitable for RC than TNF. Definitely a correct decision based on the current demographics, but it did make me think about what TNF will be like in 20 years or so.

#12 airbox

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 18:15

What's more interesting is that early to mid 1990s stuff is deemed more suitable for RC than TNF. Definitely a correct decision based on the current demographics, but it did make me think about what TNF will be like in 20 years or so.


1994 is now 30 years ago. The first time I looked at this forum was in 2000 and people were definately talking about 1970 and more recent subjects at that point. 



#13 PayasYouRace

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 19:04

House Rules:

 

 

 

* NB Autosport also hosts The Nostalgia Forum (or TNF), a more historically-minded and deliberative forum that's exclusively dedicated to discussing motor racing past. If you have a question you'd like answered or a research interest you want to dive into, you will probably get a better discussion in there. If you want to poll the Racing Comments regulars on whether Nigel Mansell's Indycar career was a success or disappointment, or who was the standout performer of the 2009 F1 season, then be our guest and open a thread in RC.

 

Seems OK to me.



#14 TAFormula1

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 19:34

I think you should ignore ChatGPT and do it with your own personal judgement. Prost would not have gone to Williams in 1993 if Senna wasn't there, and certainly Hill wouldn't have been third if Prost and Senna were in the Williamses, but ChatGPT doesn't know details like that. Personally, I believe Senna would have swept up every one of those six titles had he driven for Williams and survived, although 1995 would have been extremely close and a truly fascinating season.

True, I agree with you, but it still fun to be honest lol.



#15 F1matt

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 20:28

Senna had an option and a contract already to go to Williams in 1992, sadly he choose to stay at McLaren because of honda.

Quite interesting how different history could have potentially be, ChatGPT made a summary of it (Obviously its all relative but still fun to see):

 

Hypothetical scenario: Ayrton Senna at Williams (1992-1997)

 

1992 season

Actual season:

Williams-Renault was the dominant car, with Nigel Mansell winning the championship with 9 wins and 14 pole positions.

Hypothetical scenario:

Ayrton Senna would be in an equally dominant car as Mansell.
With his talent and experience, Senna would likely have won a similar number of wins and pole positions.

Estimated number of wins: 8
Estimated number of pole positions: 13
Championship: 1st place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Ayrton Senna
Nigel Mansell
Michael Schumacher

1993 season

Actual season:

Prost won the championship with Williams and Senna was second with McLaren.

Hypothetical scenario:

Senna would have the same conditions as Prost and would fight for the championship.
His ability in the rain would bring additional wins.

Estimated number of wins: 7
Estimated number of pole positions: 12
Championship: 1st place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Ayrton Senna
Alain Prost
Damon Hill

1994 season

Actual season:

Senna died tragically in Imola. Michael Schumacher won the championship.

Hypothetical scenario:

Senna would have a difficult season with the new regulations and would battle with Schumacher.
His adaptability would also make him successful in technical challenges.

Estimated number of wins: 6
Estimated number of pole positions: 10
Championship: 1st place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Ayrton Senna
Michael Schumacher
Damon Hill

1995 season

Actual season:

Michael Schumacher won the championship with Benetton-Renault.

Hypothetical scenario:

Williams had a competitive car, but less dominant than in previous years.
Senna would still battle Schumacher for the title.

Estimated number of wins: 5
Estimated number of pole positions: 8
Championship: 2nd place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Michael Schumacher
Ayrton Senna
Damon Hill

 

1996 season

Actual season:

Damon Hill won the championship with Williams.

Hypothetical scenario:

Senna would have a better car than in 1995 and would be a major contender for the title.
He would be more consistent than Hill because of his ability and experience.

Estimated number of wins: 8
Estimated number of pole positions: 10
Championship: 1st place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Ayrton Senna
Damon Hill
Jacques Villeneuve

1997 season

Actual season:

Jacques Villeneuve won the championship with Williams.

Hypothetical scenario:

Senna would fight with Villeneuve, but his experience and strategy would give him the edge.

Estimated number of wins: 7
Estimated number of pole positions: 11
Championship: 1st place (Ayrton Senna)
Top three drivers:

Ayrton Senna
Jacques Villeneuve
Michael Schumacher

Ayrton Senna's total statistics after 1997

Wins: 82
Pole positions: 129
Championships: 8

 

 

Apologies if it is obvious to everyone else, but how does Chat GPT factor in team mates? Does it factor in the possibility of who Ayrton Senna's team mate would have been, for example would Williams have fielded Ayrton Senna & Ricardo Patrese in 1992 or would they have opted for Ayrton Senna & Nigel Mansell? The FW14B was a car perfectly suited to Mansell and if Mansell was teamed with Senna there is a better chance the wins, poles, and fastest laps would have been split between them which would give Williams a huge win in the constructors championship but would have meant Schumacher in the Benetton was closer to the champion than he was in reality? Who comes out on top between Mansell & Senna? It was pretty much Mansell's team then, both had the ability to wind each other up and both were temperamental enough to make mistakes. Who gets the McLaren drive in place of Senna? Would they have won 3 races like Senna did or do we give Monaco, Hungary, and Italy to whoever takes the McLaren seat or do we let Senna keep them? Can it really create a true replica unless it knows ever possible driver combination and contract status? 



#16 CSF

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 20:32

The mythology that surrounds Ayrton Senna is so very dull.



#17 TAFormula1

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Posted 19 May 2024 - 21:53

Apologies if it is obvious to everyone else, but how does Chat GPT factor in team mates? Does it factor in the possibility of who Ayrton Senna's team mate would have been, for example would Williams have fielded Ayrton Senna & Ricardo Patrese in 1992 or would they have opted for Ayrton Senna & Nigel Mansell? The FW14B was a car perfectly suited to Mansell and if Mansell was teamed with Senna there is a better chance the wins, poles, and fastest laps would have been split between them which would give Williams a huge win in the constructors championship but would have meant Schumacher in the Benetton was closer to the champion than he was in reality? Who comes out on top between Mansell & Senna? It was pretty much Mansell's team then, both had the ability to wind each other up and both were temperamental enough to make mistakes. Who gets the McLaren drive in place of Senna? Would they have won 3 races like Senna did or do we give Monaco, Hungary, and Italy to whoever takes the McLaren seat or do we let Senna keep them? Can it really create a true replica unless it knows ever possible driver combination and contract status? 

Yeah you would probably need to tell him alot more info to make it more realistic for example in 1993 Prost can't be at Williams because he would never join if Senna was there before etc... I assume in 1992 it took as if Senna and Mansell were teammates and both had similar results but probably choose Senna to slightly win the championship do to more talent.



#18 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 07:03

Apologies if it is obvious to everyone else, but how does Chat GPT factor in team mates? Does it factor in the possibility of who Ayrton Senna's team mate would have been, for example would Williams have fielded Ayrton Senna & Ricardo Patrese in 1992 or would they have opted for Ayrton Senna & Nigel Mansell? The FW14B was a car perfectly suited to Mansell and if Mansell was teamed with Senna there is a better chance the wins, poles, and fastest laps would have been split between them which would give Williams a huge win in the constructors championship but would have meant Schumacher in the Benetton was closer to the champion than he was in reality? Who comes out on top between Mansell & Senna? It was pretty much Mansell's team then, both had the ability to wind each other up and both were temperamental enough to make mistakes. Who gets the McLaren drive in place of Senna? Would they have won 3 races like Senna did or do we give Monaco, Hungary, and Italy to whoever takes the McLaren seat or do we let Senna keep them? Can it really create a true replica unless it knows ever possible driver combination and contract status? 

Basically, the way bots like ChatGPT work is they collate information from around the internet and then produce text based on the patterns they see. So they can only factor in teammates as much as the typical Senna “what if” scenario maker does.

 

In your paragraph alone you’ve given the question infinitely more thought that ChatGPT ever did.

 

Lastly, there’s no such thing as a “true replica” when asking a question like this. It’s completely speculative fiction, which doesn’t mean it can’t be entertaining, but like the initial reply to this thread, totally pointless.



#19 Hrco42

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 07:50

Cool, now let's do one for Alonso if he made better career choices:

2007 - Alonso joins Ferrari - Alonso 2007 champion

2008 - Alonso joins McLaren - Alonso 2008 champion

2009 - Alonso joins Brown - Alonso 2009 champion

2010 - Alonso joins Red Bull - Alonso 2010 - 2013 champion

2014 - Alonso joins Mercedes - Alonso 2014 - 2020 champion

2021 - Alonso joins Red Bull - Alonso 2021 - 2023 champion

 

Alonso total statistics at the end of 2023

Championships: 19

Wins: At least 200



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#20 Peat

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 07:54

Re:OP - Who is Villeneuve driving for in 1996 if Senna is still about?

I don't think he would have come over to F1 at all. 



#21 DW46

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 09:06

An alternate past without JV isn’t worth considering.

#22 Emery0323

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 10:16

I'm reminded of the Keke Rosberg quote: "If my aunt had balls and a mustache, she'd be my uncle."



#23 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 10:36

An alternate past without JV isn’t worth considering.


Villeneuve vs Zanardi in late 90s CART though…

#24 DW46

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 10:37

Villeneuve vs Zanardi in late 90s CART though…


Or JV v JPM for the inevitable tantrums and trash talk.

#25 Risil

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 11:22

Re:OP - Who is Villeneuve driving for in 1996 if Senna is still about?

I don't think he would have come over to F1 at all.

Jacques very much wanted to go to Grand Prix racing, Frank Williams by no means put the idea in his head.

Great question where else he could've ended up though. Nothing worse than coming with lots of hype into an F1 team that's stagnant or declining (which is most of them, let's face it).

Assuming Schumacher is still going to Ferrari for 1996, Benetton might've worked. I get the strong suspicion that their 1996 line-up was driven by "who's available?" Have a hard time seeing Jacques at McLaren but I'm pretty sure they talked while JV was with BAR.

#26 DW46

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 11:29

Jacques very much wanted to go to Grand Prix racing, Frank Williams by no means put the idea in his head.

Great question where else he could've ended up though. Nothing worse than coming with lots of hype into an F1 team that's stagnant or declining (which is most of them, let's face it).

Assuming Schumacher is still going to Ferrari for 1996, Benetton might've worked. I get the strong suspicion that their 1996 line-up was driven by "who's available?" Have a hard time seeing Jacques at McLaren but I'm pretty sure they talked while JV was with BAR.


He had offers in 99 and 01 from Benetton and McLaren. In 99 he was invested in the BAR project. In 01 he got the call from Newey whilst at his contract meeting to extend with BAR.

He later admitted the 01 extension was a mistake and he’d been too loyal to his agent. Blagged his way into Renault in 04 and never quite looked the same again.

#27 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 11:31

Jacques very much wanted to go to Grand Prix racing, Frank Williams by no means put the idea in his head.

Great question where else he could've ended up though. Nothing worse than coming with lots of hype into an F1 team that's stagnant or declining (which is most of them, let's face it).

Assuming Schumacher is still going to Ferrari for 1996, Benetton might've worked. I get the strong suspicion that their 1996 line-up was driven by "who's available?" Have a hard time seeing Jacques at McLaren but I'm pretty sure they talked while JV was with BAR.


To be fair I see Damon, and in a chain reaction, DC being the biggest losers in such a situation. Jacques would partner Ayrton at Williams in 1996, in my head-canon.

#28 PlatenGlass

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 12:14

I've often wondered if Villeneuve, who lost 13-3 to Hill in qualifying, would have looked much better than Michael Andretti had Senna been his team-mate.

#29 DW46

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 12:56

I've often wondered if Villeneuve, who lost 13-3 to Hill in qualifying, would have looked much better than Michael Andretti had Senna been his team-mate.


Dangerously close to Hill > Villeneuve > Frentzen > Hill

#30 7MGTEsup

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 13:09

I've often wondered if Villeneuve, who lost 13-3 to Hill in qualifying, would have looked much better than Michael Andretti had Senna been his team-mate.

 

Andretti's biggest problem was getting to the end of lap 1, if he had managed that I think he would have been in the points on the regular and maybe seen the season out and possibly been there for 1994?



#31 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 13:21

I've often wondered if Villeneuve, who lost 13-3 to Hill in qualifying, would have looked much better than Michael Andretti had Senna been his team-mate.


Jacques gave it 100% and treated it as a full time job, as opposed to Michael who treated it as a series of European driving holidays.

#32 F1matt

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 14:55

Jacques gave it 100% and treated it as a full time job, as opposed to Michael who treated it as a series of European driving holidays.

 

 

He must have earned some air miles that year. Wasn’t Micheal Andretti using Concorde like some people use the tube!



#33 B Squared

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 15:03

As did Mario, but he obviously was able to win on both sides of the Atlantic with success. I find it interesting that after 31 years there are still many that enjoy bringing up Michael's lack of success as a driver in Formula One. Perhaps these attitudes are within some in the decision making process of Andretti having a Formula 1 team and are still grinding that decades-old axe.

#34 F1matt

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 15:32

I think people bring it up because when a driver is given a shot at F1 they normally grasp it and do all they can to prepare for the job in hand, typically relocating to Europe so they are close to the factory to stay abreast of changes and build a relationship with the technical staff, be chomping at the bit to test as much as they can, especially if new parts are updated on the car instead of waiting for the team to ring them and ask the driver to test the car, hiring a personal trainer so they are in the best possible shape for F1 etc.

 

Michael Andretti’s problem was that he wasn’t willing to do this but worse still there was a test driver in Mika Hakkinen who was doing all of the above including watching and learning off Ayrton Senna who went on to be a double world champion for the team.

 

 

The sport had changed massively since Mario Andretti won the title, Nigel Mansell showed a better attitude by relocating his family to America when he competed in the Indycar championship and gave the task the respect it deserved.

 

 

I doubt this has any effect on Andretti looking to enter F1 today, his entry should be given a fair hearing but so should any team in F2 or F3 who are doing well in a spec formula and not in the business of constructing race cars. I hope Michael Andretti’s (and Mario’s) attitude to F1 has changed from Michael’s time in F1 as they are both very quick to blame everyone else for his downfall while not taking any of the blame, maybe they have had plenty of time to reflect in private and come up with a serious GP entry plan. Good luck to them both.



#35 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 15:44

He must have earned some air miles that year. Wasn’t Micheal Andretti using Concorde like some people use the tube!


Fun fact: Concorde’s fuselage is narrow enough to fit down a tube tunnel.

#36 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 15:49

Fun fact: Concorde’s fuselage is narrow enough to fit down a tube tunnel.

Definitely going to bore my wife with that one next time I’m in London.  :smoking:



#37 B Squared

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 16:39

For the record, I was no Michael Andretti fan at that time and I agree with your assessment of his time at McLaren. I was saying the same thing in period. The 92/93 IndyCar calenders were two of the 13 seasons that I worked for CART, so I was paying pretty close attention. I just brought it up as a question that I've had.

#38 F1matt

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 17:23

I share your frustration, it was a great series then and deserved someone to come over and make an impact and the US deserve a competitive F1 driver, handled differently they both could have had one, I don’t think anyone would question Michael Andretti’s talent just his approach to the McLaren drive.



#39 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 19:46

Senna starts his own F1 team and takes Barrichello to championship glory

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#40 Risil

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 20:06

I share your frustration, it was a great series then and deserved someone to come over and make an impact and the US deserve a competitive F1 driver, handled differently they both could have had one, I don’t think anyone would question Michael Andretti’s talent just his approach to the McLaren drive.

If Michael and Little Al had come over in the 80s they'd have been dynamite.

I suppose a point that we don't always remember to make is that they were earning good money in America. By the year 2000 Michael was probably making more than any F1 driver barring the other Michael.

#41 garoidb

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 20:42

If Michael and Little Al had come over in the 80s they'd have been dynamite.

I suppose a point that we don't always remember to make is that they were earning good money in America. By the year 2000 Michael was probably making more than any F1 driver barring the other Michael.

 

Also, would his situation have been so conducive to Indycar team ownership if he had spent seven or eight years in F1 up to 2000? Given that he retired from Indycar at 40 in 2003 (not counting two later one-off Indy 500 starts), can we see him having had a post-F1 Indycar driving career (CART or IRL) in the 2000s? It worked out well for him, all told.

 

Edit: Look at Jacques Villeneuve, for example. He left Indycar for F1, got a position in the strongest team and got himself a title. That's great, but his attempt at team ownership in F1 didn't work out and his F1 and overall driving career petered out slowly. He doesn't have the team leadership role that Michael has now. I'm not saying he wanted it but it could have gone like that for Michael too, even with an F1 title. Who's to say he's not better off with the current scenario?


Edited by garoidb, 20 May 2024 - 20:48.


#42 Collombin

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 21:17

If Michael and Little Al had come over in the 80s they'd have been dynamite


And what about Rick Mears? Those Brabham tests were enough for Herbie Blash to forever refer to Mears as "the great lost world champion".

#43 Risil

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 21:23

And what about Rick Mears? Those Brabham tests were enough for Herbie Blash to forever refer to Mears as "the great lost world champion".

My understanding was that even if he'd wanted to, the bad leg injuries he got in 1984 probably closed that chapter.

Before then, definitely. But again, why would he? What could F1 have offered that winning the Indy 500 for Penske couldn't?

#44 Collombin

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 21:37

Before then, definitely. But again, why would he? What could F1 have offered that winning the Indy 500 for Penske couldn't?


Exactly, that's why it didn't happen. The tests were in 1980 iirc.

#45 Deeq

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 21:45

I read the title as..Serena Williams 🙃
And i have seen & read the thread before..

#46 Lennat

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 21:48

With Senna in a Williams,I think Schumacher would have been less likely to join Ferrari. He could for instance have stayed at Benetton longer and then gone to McLaren. Regardless, the butterfly effect would have been huge on all fronts, and nothing would have been the same (except Schumi would still have won many titles somehow).

#47 William Hunt

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 21:58

I would have loved to have seen Ayrton Senna in a Ferrari. I remember there was one Silly Season year when there were rumours he could go there, but it never materialised.



#48 Ferrim

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Posted 20 May 2024 - 22:12

Andretti's biggest problem was getting to the end of lap 1, if he had managed that I think he would have been in the points on the regular and maybe seen the season out and possibly been there for 1994?


Best example probably being Donington. If you watch the race start, it's not a McLaren looking massively faster than the cars ahead - it's the two of them. But when it comes to pass Wendlinger, Andretti makes a mess of it and both end up out of the race.

Edited by Ferrim, 20 May 2024 - 22:13.


#49 F1matt

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Posted 21 May 2024 - 13:09

I would have loved to have seen Ayrton Senna in a Ferrari. I remember there was one Silly Season year when there were rumours he could go there, but it never materialised.

 

I couldn’t imagine Senna in a Ferrari, the whole thing was wrong for his approach to F1, maybe its because I think of him and Ron Dennis as such a key partnership to make things work. I know there were rumours of Senna going to Ferrari but nothing was mentioned before his death. I think there was a better chance of Marlboro coughing up for a Penske drive in America.

If Senna had survived the Imola accident and carried on in the sport it would have been interesting to see how much influence Michael Schumacher would have had over the sport, I am guessing him rising to the star would have been a lot slower and his influence reduced, some of his antics may have been given harsher penalties.



#50 PlatenGlass

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Posted 21 May 2024 - 13:57

Jacques gave it 100% and treated it as a full time job, as opposed to Michael who treated it as a series of European driving holidays.

I do think Villeneuve did better than Andretti as it happens, but I think his debut season would have been in a slightly different light with Senna as his team-mate.