8 replies to this topic

[Eagle1977]

Here is what I have. Corrections/updates much appreciated.

 

1911 - IMS Museum

1912- IMS Museum

1913 - Sold to E.J. Schroeder following the 1913 race and driven by Ralph Mulford during the season. Sold again in 1915 and then once more in 1916. It was entered at Pikes Peak in 1916, but did not appear. The trail is lost at this point, with the car presumed to have been "used up" and scrapped.

1914 - IMS Museum

1915 - This chassis was run for at least a decade on the IMCA circuit and then likely scrapped.

1916 - The car that exists today is NOT the 1916 winner. The true 1916 winner was likely parted out by Dario Resta in 1918. He fitted another engine to the chassis and raced it for several years until it was likely scrapped. The engine was paired with another Peugeot chassis and raced again at Indy in 1919 with Ray Howard. The engine continued to be raced on the east coast until it faded away and was lost to history.

1919 -  Sold to Alex Sloane sometime prior to 1921 and raced well into the 1930s before it was scrapped.

1920 - It's unclear whether this was the car Chevrolet was driving when he crashed fatally in late 1920. If it was, it was, it was rebuilt and it raced again at Indy until 1922, when Wilbur d'Alene finished 15th. It was later used for dirt track racing and disappears by the mid-20s.

1921 - It was used up on dirt tracks and likely scrapped.

1922 - IMS Museum

1923 - The car that exists today as the 1923 winner is not the 1923 winner. It's a well built replica that was built up using another car. The true winning car was parted out by the end of the 1923 season. The engine went into another Miller chassis. The chassis was maybe used to build a new car. It's unclear what happened to the engine or the chassis.

 

More to come...

[sabrejet]

Simon Pagenaud did a demo at this year's Indy 500 in Gil de Ferran's winning car: it's recently been restored and is still owned by Penske.

[Henri Greuter]

Save yourself the efforts: it's been done, at least much of it:

 

 

 

inrd.gotdns.com/indystuff/win.htm

 

 

 

BTW, I didn't make this list!

Edited by Henri Greuter, 30 May 2024 - 13:29.

[Nigel Beresford]

Simon Pagenaud did a demo at this year's Indy 500 in Gil de Ferran's winning car: it's recently been restored and is still owned by Penske.

Penske still owns all of their Indy winners. Two of them don’t use the actual chassis. All are built as far as possible with the parts which were on the car when it won - suspension, uprights, engine, gearbox etc.
They are maintained in running condition by Penske Restoration and displayed in rotation at the Penske Museum in Scottsdale, AZ.

[Henri Greuter]

Penske still owns all of their Indy winners. Two of them don’t use the actual chassis. All are built as far as possible with the parts which were on the car when it won - suspension, uprights, engine, gearbox etc.
They are maintained in running condition by Penske Restoration and displayed in rotation at the Penske Museum in Scottsdale, AZ.

I do know that he doesn't own the actual monocoque of the 1972 winner but supposedly has a replica of that car that has a lot of the original parts on the winning monicoques.

The genuine 1981 winner is also 'elsewhere' and presumablu out of reach.

 

Lost is wrtitten about the '79 winner but there is reason to assume that this car is also lacking from the collection in AZ.

 

Are the two cars that don't have the actual chassis as you describe listed within the shortlist I gave or are that different cars? BTW I can understand if you are not permitted to go into details about all this.

[Doug Nye]

Penske still owns all of their Indy winners. Two of them don’t use the actual chassis. All are built as far as possible with the parts which were on the car when it won - suspension, uprights, engine, gearbox etc.
They are maintained in running condition by Penske Restoration and displayed in rotation at the Penske Museum in Scottsdale, AZ.

 

 

Sorry, but I fail to see much perceived historic value in a preserved 'winning car' which does not "use the actual chassis".  

 

The chassis is the sole, solitary unifying element in any competition car - even including the complex hybrid dual-structure D-Type Jaguar - and while some would argue that the combination of a forward monocoque and a fully-stressed engine performing as part of 'the' chassis structure renders this argument outdated they are - as far as I am concerned - talking cobblers...  

 

DCN

[Nigel Beresford]

Nobody was saying these two cars are being passed off as the real thing. It was neither stated or implied. Goodyear owns the Donohue 1972 McLaren so the Bettenhausen chassis is used, and the original 1981 car is in private hands. The museum makes no secret of this.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 31 May 2024 - 19:16.

[Doug Nye]

Splendid!  Glad to hear it.

 

I would have expected nothing less, Nigel.

 

DCN

[Nigel Beresford]

Hi Henri, I have never heard anything about the 79 car. I know the guys at ‘Restoration very well indeed and have facilitated contacts with or for them on occasion in the past. I am not aware of any issues about the provenance of the 79 car. It never came up in any conversations but that doesn’t mean there is no substance. As you would expect though, they are super professional and really know their stuff and have extensive archives, and it’s always fascinating to chat with them, but nothing ever came up in conversation about Mears first winner.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 31 May 2024 - 19:33.