43 replies to this topic

[aportinga]

Picked up a comment in Racer that Logan Seargent brings $30 million to the table for Williams???

 

Where does that come from?

 

Looking at other drivers salaries and noted Bottas gets $10 million? I cannot think of a larger waste of money for the worst team on the grid.

 

- KMag gets $5 mill while Hulkenberg gets $2mill?

- Ricciardo gets $6mill and Yuki gets $1mill?

- Albon is making the same as Stroll ($3mill)?

 

https://www.nbcsport...es-2024/544260/

 

 

[P123]

Picked up a comment in Racer that Logan Seargent brings $30 million to the table for Williams???

 

Where does that come from?

 

Looking at other drivers salaries and noted Bottas gets $10 million? I cannot think of a larger waste of money for the worst team on the grid.

 

- KMag gets $5 mill while Hulkenberg gets $2mill?

- Ricciardo gets $6mill and Yuki gets $1mill?

- Albon is making the same as Stroll ($3mill)?

 

https://www.nbcsport...es-2024/544260/

 

On the contrary, that's a well earned $10m wasting time driving for a team that doesn't even try to be half-good.

[FirstnameLastname]

Nice that stroll gets some pocket money as well as an entire F1 team as his plaything.

Never understood why companies want to fund drivers like Sargent… is anyone successfully using him to promote something whereby they are making MORE than the 30mil outlay each year?!

[Beri]

The Sargeant story stems from the belief that his billionaire uncle funds him. Which is something that is unlikely, as his family allegedly isn't that close, and which is a story that persistently came up after his promotion to Williams was announced.
So its something I suspect that has been thrown up by a journo who spotted that his uncle is a billionaire. But the annoying thing is that this rumor refuses to die. It has never been acknowledged nor denied by any of the involved parties, so I'd even go as far that it is just fake news.

[Laster]

- KMag gets $5 mill while Hulkenberg gets $2mill?
- Ricciardo gets $6mill and Yuki gets $1mill?

Hulk was out for 3 years, in order to get back he had to take a massive cut from what he had been earning previously. I don't know how KMag managed to wrangle $5mil though after his year out.

The difference between Ricciardo and Tsunoda is understandable. While Ricciardo has had hard times recently, he is the one with past success and is undeniably a very popular and marketable driver. Yuki is still early in his F1 career and Red Bull typically keep their young drivers on a low (in F1 terms) salary. It's only really when they get into the Red Bull team do they start getting paid considerably more.

The ones that I feel aren't well justified is Perez on $14 million which must take out a big chunk of what his sponsors put in. And Bottas on $10 million because for a team like Sauber it's not great bang for your buck when compared to what other teams get for Albon on $3 million, Hulk on $2 mill, and Tsunoda on $1 mill.

Still I'm always a little skeptical about how accurate these reports are. They're probably somewhere in the ball park but not spot on.

[PayasYouRace]

Nice that stroll gets some pocket money as well as an entire F1 team as his plaything.

Never understood why companies want to fund drivers like Sargent… is anyone successfully using him to promote something whereby they are making MORE than the 30mil outlay each year?!

Duracell are currently using Williams in the advertising in the UK. Neither of the drivers are shown or named though.

[Sterzo]

Never understood why companies want to fund drivers like Sargent… is anyone successfully using him to promote something whereby they are making MORE than the 30mil outlay each year?!

I often read on the forum that a particular driver is there for "marketing reasons." I'm always sceptical about that. From my own admittedly limited knowledge based only on UK company involvement, sponsorship of a driver is usually for the opposite reason - that a board member is enthusiastic about racing and persuades the others to cough up without having a sound business case for it.

 

Some posters keep telling us everyone is motivated only by money, whereas the truth is that even company directors are people, with likes, dislikes, preferences, enthusiasms - and they are human, not coldly rational. In one specific instance a finance director I knew well tried to talk the board into sponsorship, because he was mad about the sport. You read it right: finance director. Bean counter.

[DeKnyff]

Picked up a comment in Racer that Logan Seargent brings $30 million to the table for Williams???

 

This is difficult to believe.

[MattPete]

My impression is that Logan brings no money and is completely Williams funded.

[jcbc3]

I send a question yesterday to racer mail bag to see if they will elaborate.

[Risil]

My impression is that Logan brings no money and is completely Williams funded.

Gosh, why do you think they're sticking with him?

[Taxi]

Hulk was out for 3 years, in order to get back he had to take a massive cut from what he had been earning previously. I don't know how KMag managed to wrangle $5mil though after his year out.

The difference between Ricciardo and Tsunoda is understandable. While Ricciardo has had hard times recently, he is the one with past success and is undeniably a very popular and marketable driver. Yuki is still early in his F1 career and Red Bull typically keep their young drivers on a low (in F1 terms) salary. It's only really when they get into the Red Bull team do they start getting paid considerably more.

The ones that I feel aren't well justified is Perez on $14 million which must take out a big chunk of what his sponsors put in. And Bottas on $10 million because for a team like Sauber it's not great bang for your buck when compared to what other teams get for Albon on $3 million, Hulk on $2 mill, and Tsunoda on $1 mill.

Still I'm always a little skeptical about how accurate these reports are. They're probably somewhere in the ball park but not spot on.

 

Kmag got lucky in the Mazepin affair. He was one of the only experienced drivers available at short notice and Haas could not manage to stick with Mick and some other useless rookie. 

 

I'm not against Danny Ric earning 6 million, i'm against Yuki being explored. 

[Autodromo]

Kmag got lucky in the Mazepin affair. He was one of the only experienced drivers available at short notice and Haas could not manage to stick with Mick and some other useless rookie. 

 

I'm not against Danny Ric earning 6 million, i'm against Yuki being explored. 

I am guessing you meant "exploited" and I would agree.

 

Oscar should get a well-deserved raise in his next contract.

Edited by Autodromo, 13 June 2024 - 13:07.

[Taxi]

I am guessing you meant "exploited" and I would agree.

 

Oscar should get a well-deserved in his next contract.

 

Sorry, in portuguese we use the word "explorado" (explored) in this context apart from the "exploration" context. So "exploited" Yuki is. 

[Autodromo]

Sorry, in portuguese we use the word "explorado" (explored) in this context apart from the "exploration" context. So "exploited" Yuki is. 

And then I left out the word "raise" in my comment about Oscar!  Oops!  Fixed that.  

[IrvTheSwerve]

F1 drivers aren’t really paid that well compared to other top-level sports considering there are only 20 of them and it’s all on them when they’re in the car. $5m a year is ‘only’ $96k per week (before tax, depending on which haven they’re living in!). Compare this to many, many people playing team sports that are easily earning 400k+ per week. It’s only the Hamiltons and Verstappens of the world earning that.

 

Earning 1 or 2 million a year is a pittance for a top-level sportsperson. 

[FirstnameLastname]

F1 drivers aren’t really paid that well compared to other top-level sports considering there are only 20 of them and it’s all on them when they’re in the car. $5m a year is ‘only’ $96k per week (before tax, depending on which haven they’re living in!). Compare this to many, many people playing team sports that are easily earning 400k+ per week. It’s only the Hamiltons and Verstappens of the world earning that.

Earning 1 or 2 million a year is a pittance for a top-level sportsperson.

Poor sods. I’ll start a gofundme

[F1matt]

Doesn’t it depend on how you define salary?

 

 

 I can’t imagine any driver is actually employed by a race team, more likely the driver’s personal company, let’s say Mr Race Driver Ltd (based in tax have A) will earn a fee for his driving & results while Mr Race Driver Promotions Ltd (based in tax haven B) will be paid for his sponsorship commitments. Out of that he will have to fund his insurance premium which will be very high, flights to races, personal trainer, probably a PA, and maybe a personal chef as well as his everyday bills and expenses.

[Autodromo]

F1 drivers aren’t really paid that well compared to other top-level sports considering there are only 20 of them and it’s all on them when they’re in the car. $5m a year is ‘only’ $96k per week (before tax, depending on which haven they’re living in!). Compare this to many, many people playing team sports that are easily earning 400k+ per week. It’s only the Hamiltons and Verstappens of the world earning that.

 

Earning 1 or 2 million a year is a pittance for a top-level sportsperson. 

I suspect that their other partnerships make more than their salary, especially for the lower-paid drivers.  Because they ARE the focus of the team versus just one of a dozen or more team members.

[FirstnameLastname]

Doesn’t it depend on how you define salary?


I can’t imagine any driver is actually employed by a race team, more likely the driver’s personal company, let’s say Mr Race Driver Ltd (based in tax have A) will earn a fee for his driving & results while Mr Race Driver Promotions Ltd (based in tax haven B) will be paid for his sponsorship commitments. Out of that he will have to fund his insurance premium which will be very high, flights to races, personal trainer, probably a PA, and maybe a personal chef as well as his everyday bills and expenses.

Would be interesting to see how much of that they can fit into the contract. Hotels etc. and what the points/win bonuses are

[Taxi]

F1 drivers aren’t really paid that well compared to other top-level sports considering there are only 20 of them and it’s all on them when they’re in the car. $5m a year is ‘only’ $96k per week (before tax, depending on which haven they’re living in!). Compare this to many, many people playing team sports that are easily earning 400k+ per week. It’s only the Hamiltons and Verstappens of the world earning that.

 

Earning 1 or 2 million a year is a pittance for a top-level sportsperson. 

 

I kind of agree. I remember Nelson Piquet being paid 4 million dollars at Benneton... in 1991. F1 drivers risk their lives all the time. Market should not be indiferent to that. Sure Michael, Kimi, Hamilton and Max were a few times the highest paid sportsmen in the world, but they are the exceptions. 

 

We don't know if there are other extra payments, advertising, sponsorship revenues of course, but paying 1 million to Tsunoda and  2 million to Hulk is a joke when any mid quality football player in PL, la Liga or SA ligue earns way more. 

 

And that leads us to the real problem: Rally Drivers. 

[Clatter]

Hulk was out for 3 years, in order to get back he had to take a massive cut from what he had been earning previously. I don't know how KMag managed to wrangle $5mil though after his year out.

The difference between Ricciardo and Tsunoda is understandable. While Ricciardo has had hard times recently, he is the one with past success and is undeniably a very popular and marketable driver. Yuki is still early in his F1 career and Red Bull typically keep their young drivers on a low (in F1 terms) salary. It's only really when they get into the Red Bull team do they start getting paid considerably more.

The ones that I feel aren't well justified is Perez on $14 million which must take out a big chunk of what his sponsors put in. And Bottas on $10 million because for a team like Sauber it's not great bang for your buck when compared to what other teams get for Albon on $3 million, Hulk on $2 mill, and Tsunoda on $1 mill.

Still I'm always a little skeptical about how accurate these reports are. They're probably somewhere in the ball park but not spot on.

In the case of Kmag they needed a driver urgently, which probably gave him a good hand to negotiate with.

[IrvTheSwerve]

I kind of agree. I remember Nelson Piquet being paid 4 million dollars at Benneton... in 1991. F1 drivers risk their lives all the time. Market should not be indiferent to that. Sure Michael, Kimi, Hamilton and Max were a few times the highest paid sportsmen in the world, but they are the exceptions. 

 

We don't know if there are other extra payments, advertising, sponsorship revenues of course, but paying 1 million to Tsunoda and  2 million to Hulk is a joke when any mid quality football player in PL, la Liga or SA ligue earns way more. 

 

And that leads us to the real problem: Rally Drivers. 

 

Yep. I know it's 'first world problems' but there are plenty of football (soccer) players in the UK who play in the second tier (even at my local team) who earn equal or more than Yuki Tsunoda. Very likely earn less than Yuki in terms of merchandise stuff, but I can't imagine that is a huge amount.

 

I wonder if the excellent safety record in modern F1 means that they can't ask for bigger salaries. I suppose there was an element of 'danger money' back then, when you were put in the car with a good chance you'd at least get injured. F1 is now less dangerous than many/most field sports, I would say.

[DeKnyff]

Poor sods. I’ll start a gofundme

 

It would be a very high salary for an average person, but in comparison, there are 2nd division footballers in the main European leagues who earn more than that.

[southernstars]

I wonder if the excellent safety record in modern F1 means that they can't ask for bigger salaries. I suppose there was an element of 'danger money' back then, when you were put in the car with a good chance you'd at least get injured. F1 is now less dangerous than many/most field sports, I would say.

 

Ridiculous concept. The speeds they do and the circumstances means this is still a highly dangerous sport. You can only mitigate so much.

 

Daniel still broke his hand last year. He also still nearly had a tyre land on his head even with the halo. There will always be serious dangerous.

[Clatter]

It would be a very high salary for an average person, but in comparison, there are 2nd division footballers in the main European leagues who earn more than that.

How much money does football generate compared to F1? Suspect football brings in a lot more.

[Taxi]

F1 generates A LOT of money. Enough to pay much more to the protagonists.  There are "incfluencers"  in tik tok making videos  with Yuki or Hulkenberg that are payed a lot more. 

[Clatter]

F1 generates A LOT of money. Enough to pay much more to the protagonists. There are "incfluencers" in tik tok making videos with Yuki or Hulkenberg that are payed a lot more.

But does it generate as much as other sports where salaries are higher. It's the same with a lot of women's sport. They complain the men are paid more, but the men's game generates a lot more money.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Ridiculous concept. The speeds they do and the circumstances means this is still a highly dangerous sport. You can only mitigate so much.

 

Daniel still broke his hand last year. He also still nearly had a tyre land on his head even with the halo. There will always be serious dangerous.

Show me where I said it wasn’t dangerous.

 

Poor Daniel with his little broken hand - that would be laughable in some sports today. My point being that F1 is no longer the death trap it used to be compared to other sports.

[Blundle]

The commercial value of the Premier League swamps F1 hence mid-table clubs paying salaries of £5-6m per year. TV rights alone are worth £130-140m for mid-table sides. 

 

The 'danger money' argument for racing drivers doesn't really stack up when you consider the salaries of police officers, firefighters or members of the armed forces. I don't think danger has ever been factored in to driver salaries and the market has always been determined by driver skill and commercial value.  

[DeKnyff]

How much money does football generate compared to F1? Suspect football brings in a lot more.

I don’t think second division national leagues (which was what my post was about) generate as much money as the F1 World Champioship.

[StevoCBR]

The commercial value of the Premier League swamps F1 hence mid-table clubs paying salaries of £5-6m per year. TV rights alone are worth £130-140m for mid-table sides. 

 

The 'danger money' argument for racing drivers doesn't really stack up when you consider the salaries of police officers, firefighters or members of the armed forces. I don't think danger has ever been factored in to driver salaries and the market has always been determined by driver skill and commercial value.  

Yes, or even compared to motorcycle racers.  Top MotoGP riders probably earn around 30% of top F1 driver salaries, let alone difference to TT racers etc.

[Autodromo]

The other thing to consider when comparing to football is that the cost to maintain an F1 team is far, far higher than the cost to maintain a football club.  A lot of money is going to things other than driver salaries.

[F1matt]

I don’t think second division national leagues (which was what my post was about) generate as much money as the F1 World Champioship.

 

 

We are comparing apples with pears, every professional footballer is paid for his services, from the premier league down to the National league they are all reimbursed for their ability. They are skilled professionals who have to stand out in field of millions. F1 drivers aren't all professional, most of them aren't there on talent but from having the right budget at the right time to stand out from their competitors in the junior formula which is a very small field by comparison, they are then given several years to prove themselves in top flight motorsport. Some of them are their because they have very rich parents or very well connected families. Arguably there are similar skilled drivers in other series such as WEC or Indycar but will never get the chance due to various circumstances, usually money.

 

When we watch the world cup or the Euro's we aren't watching privileged men we are watching the worlds elite footballers, because in football like most sports the cream will always rise to the top. Motorsport will never attain this level, in theory their could be a 13 year boy or girl on a council estate in the UK or anywhere else in the word who steals a car and can drive it as good as a similar aged kart driver but they aint getting to F1, they are more likely to g to jail. If they are brilliant with a football, they could end up at Real Madrid or Manchester United. 

[F1matt]

The other thing to consider when comparing to football is that the cost to maintain an F1 team is far, far higher than the cost to maintain a football club.  A lot of money is going to things other than driver salaries.

 

 

Again its a difficult comparison, I seen some figures for Torro Rosso as they used to be called a couple of years ago and there turn over was  just under $184 million USD, they made a small profit. I can't imagine any PL team could manage on that amount, the team that finishes last is payed $145 million and they usually lose heavily to try and stay in the league, Manchester United generate over $820 million dollars and still made a significant loss last year. 

[Autodromo]

We are comparing apples with pears, every professional footballer is paid for his services, from the premier league down to the National league they are all reimbursed for their ability. They are skilled professionals who have to stand out in field of millions. F1 drivers aren't all professional, most of them aren't there on talent but from having the right budget at the right time to stand out from their competitors in the junior formula which is a very small field by comparison, they are then given several years to prove themselves in top flight motorsport. Some of them are their because they have very rich parents or very well connected families. Arguably there are similar skilled drivers in other series such as WEC or Indycar but will never get the chance due to various circumstances, usually money.

 

When we watch the world cup or the Euro's we aren't watching privileged men we are watching the worlds elite footballers, because in football like most sports the cream will always rise to the top. Motorsport will never attain this level, in theory their could be a 13 year boy or girl on a council estate in the UK or anywhere else in the word who steals a car and can drive it as good as a similar aged kart driver but they aint getting to F1, they are more likely to g to jail. If they are brilliant with a football, they could end up at Real Madrid or Manchester United. 

Yes; I'm trying to square this comment with your other one (with which I agree) that motosports has a high bar for entry in terms of money because you need a car, mechanics, builders and so on.  The same thing that requires money for entry level makes it even more expensive at the top level.  What do you need for a football team?  Trainers, footballs, a couple of coaches, a locker room, some grass :-)  Where is Manchester United spending all their money?  Gold-plated sinks in the locker room?

[F1matt]

Yes; I'm trying to square this comment with your other one (with which I agree) that motosports has a high bar for entry in terms of money because you need a car, mechanics, builders and so on.  The same thing that requires money for entry level makes it even more expensive at the top level.  What do you need for a football team?  Trainers, footballs, a couple of coaches, a locker room, some grass :-)  Where is Manchester United spending all their money?  Gold-plated sinks in the locker room?

 

 

Where football goes in modern football is baffling. 

[New Britain]

Again its a difficult comparison, I seen some figures for Torro Rosso as they used to be called a couple of years ago and there turn over was  just under $184 million USD, they made a small profit. I can't imagine any PL team could manage on that amount, the team that finishes last is payed $145 million and they usually lose heavily to try and stay in the league, Manchester United generate over $820 million dollars and still made a significant loss last year. 

For 2022 ManU's player payroll was £295m, with the payroll of their many hundreds of staff adding many millions to that amount.

[jcbc3]

I send a question yesterday to racer mail bag to see if they will elaborate.

 

And they did!

 

https://racer.com/20...lbag-june-19/6/

[Nathan]

The Sergeant number is made up.
 

Doesn’t it depend on how you define salary?

 

 

 I can’t imagine any driver is actually employed by a race team, more likely the driver’s personal company, let’s say Mr Race Driver Ltd (based in tax have A) will earn a fee for his driving & results while Mr Race Driver Promotions Ltd (based in tax haven B) will be paid for his sponsorship commitments. Out of that he will have to fund his insurance premium which will be very high, flights to races, personal trainer, probably a PA, and maybe a personal chef as well as his everyday bills and expenses.

 

This.  Driver through corps typically sign two contracts, one related to driving, one related to marketing.

 

 

Manchester United generate over $820 million dollars and still made a significant loss last year. 

 

They made a tax accounting loss.  On paper it looks like they lost short of 26 million Pounds, but they also expensed over 170 million in amortization.

Edited by Nathan, 19 June 2024 - 13:35.

[Clatter]

And they did!

https://racer.com/20...lbag-june-19/6/

So he just made the numbers up, and you discussing it on forums is the problem.

[Autodromo]

For 2022 ManU's player payroll was £295m, with the payroll of their many hundreds of staff adding many millions to that amount.

Not being a big follower of football, I was trying to figure out why they would need many hundreds of staff.  With a motorsports team I understand it, but not with a football team.  Guess I'll do some online searching for the answers.

[Bleu]

Not being a big follower of football, I was trying to figure out why they would need many hundreds of staff.  With a motorsports team I understand it, but not with a football team.  Guess I'll do some online searching for the answers.

 

The personnel that regularly travels with team isn't that big but if you add everyone from the ticket sales etc. you get a lot of staff.

[Autodromo]

The personnel that regularly travels with team isn't that big but if you add everyone from the ticket sales etc. you get a lot of staff.

I would agree, but I can't believe those people are paid very much such that their overall payroll is so high.  Anyway, not to get sidetracked.  Thanks for the info!