1300 replies to this topic

[Wuzak]

kumo7, on 12 Nov 2024 - 06:43, said:

We need to consider if the time delta was counted against all the drivers. [/size]

 
You didn't say that.
 
You said he'd beaten Max by 20s+ twice.

 

kumo7, on 12 Nov 2024 - 06:43, said:

Norris gave more than 20 sec to all the drivers, headed by Max.

Pretty sure that had Leclerc/Ferrari not screwed up qualifying in Singapore and started in the top 4 he'd have been 2nd, at least, and a lot closer to Norris than Verstappen was.

[kumo7]

Wuzak, on 12 Nov 2024 - 09:34, said:

 
You didn't say that.
 
You said he'd beaten Max by 20s+ twice.

 

Pretty sure that had Leclerc/Ferrari not screwed up qualifying in Singapore and started in the top 4 he'd have been 2nd, at least, and a lot closer to Norris than Verstappen was.

 

１. No, I did not. So I am saying it.

2. Coulda Woulda Shoulda. There are lots of them.

[taran]

Risil, on 11 Nov 2024 - 16:52, said:

The other factor of course is how well the champion's teammate was performing. Piquet was an excellent driver but there were better options in 1981 than Hector Rebaque.

 

I don't recall what happened to Patrese in 1983, I know he crashed from the lead at Imola but looking at his results he had two points finishes all year, both finishing ahead of Piquet.

 

The WCC is simply the aggregate of the finishes of the team's two drivers. I know this is an extremely obvious point but quite often it's taken as an index of the team's true level of performance and I don't think that's right.

 

Without getting into too much detail, Patrese was a pretty good driver but not top drawer.

He was competitive with Piquet in speed but suffered from dire reliability.

 

In 1982, he just pipped Piquet by 1 point in the driver standings.

In 1983, he couldn't buy a finish to save his life despite qualifying pretty well in general. Perhaps he was too hard on the car, perhaps Piquet was simply sublime in nursing fragile cars to the finish. Piquet was considered a turbo specialist at the time after all. It certainly wasn't a Rebaque or even a Perez kind of teammate comparison.

Edited by taran, 13 November 2024 - 15:41.

[garoidb]

taran, on 12 Nov 2024 - 11:24, said:

Without getting into too much detail, Patrese was a pretty good driver but not top drawer.

He was competitive with Piquet in speed but suffered from dire reliability.

 

In 1982, he just pipped Piquet by 1 point in the driver standings.

In 1983, he couldn't buy a finish to safe his life despite qualifying pretty well in general. Perhaps he was too hard on the car, perhaps Piquet was simply sublime in nursing fragile cars to the finish. Piquet was considered a turbo specialist at the time after all. It certainly wasn't a Rebaque or even a Perez kind of teammate comparison.

 

Piquet had done a lot of testing for the BMW engine and that could come into it. Nevertheless, if Patrese's car was too unreliable then his team didn't deserve to win the WCC. I agree that it wasn't the Rebaque situation. 

[RaceBoyer]

Ragamuffin, on 12 Nov 2024 - 01:22, said:

Maybe that's the hit you take from being a one car team, that the WCC is at risk.

The WDC is at risk too when you only field one competitive car, as you only have one driver with a chance of winning it as opposed to putting two drivers out there with a chance of winning it, (you don't necessarily even need to field a driver as good as Max in the second car, even if you were to put say a Nico Rosberg type in the second seat, then your chances of winning the WDC go up as someone of Rosberg's ability can pick up the pieces and win the WDC occasionally if Max has lots of bad luck with DNF's, timings of SC's and red flags etc.; whereas someone as slow as Checo can't win the WDC for you).

[jonklug]

https://www.racefans...-to-verstappen/

 

Interesting article, analyzing points Lando lost at various venues this season. There was ample opportunity for him to be much closer to Max right now, it's fair to say.

2024 Bahrain Grand Prix

Norris lost four points

2024 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

Norris lost eight points

2024 Chinese Grand Prix – sprint race

Norris lost four points

2024 Miami Grand Prix – sprint race

Norris lost three points

2024 Monaco Grand Prix

Norris lost six points

2024 Spanish Grand Prix

Norris lost seven points

2024 Austrian Grand Prix – sprint race

Norris lost two points

2024 Hungarian Grand Prix

Norris lost seven points

2024 Belgian Grand Prix

Norris lost eight points

2024 Italian Grand Prix

Norris lost three points

2024 United States Grand Prix

Norris lost three points

2024 Brazilian Grand Prix

Norris lost 17 points

[pacificquay]

Absolute rubbish to put every lost point down to "errors by Norris".

[jonklug]

pacificquay, on 14 Nov 2024 - 13:01, said:

Absolute rubbish to put every lost point down to "errors by Norris".

 

It's only his personal mistakes that are counted. It doesn't also include points that the team may have lost him. You can go through the article and see the explanation under each race where they say he lost points. And you can agree or disagree with it of course but it's clear he has lost quite a lot of points on his own. 

Edited by jonklug, 14 November 2024 - 13:04.

[kumo7]

jonklug, on 14 Nov 2024 - 13:03, said:

It's only his personal mistakes that are counted. It doesn't also include points that the team may have lost him. You can go through the article and see the explanation under each race where they say he lost points. And you can agree or disagree with it of course but it's clear he has lost quite a lot of points on his own. 

 

How can you judge it and what is your proof? None, except TV, I am assuming. If in case youhave telemetry, how can you say that the incident was 100% du Norris'?

Also what is the point o this none sense? How many points have Max lost by his own mistales and how can you compare it?

 

At the end of the day, does it matter, if the incidents was because of Norris or teams? 

I say absolutely not. 

Team and driver win and lose together, as long as when we talk about McLaren I know. Perhaps you have other experience, and I am sorry for that. But it does not mean that your numbers make sense at all to say the least... 

[Claudius]

kumo7, on 14 Nov 2024 - 13:27, said:

How can you judge it and what is your proof? None, except TV, I am assuming. If in case youhave telemetry, how can you say that the incident was 100% du Norris'?

Also what is the point o this none sense? How many points have Max lost by his own mistales and how can you compare it?

 

At the end of the day, does it matter, if the incidents was because of Norris or teams? 

I say absolutely not. 

Team and driver win and lose together, as long as when we talk about McLaren I know. Perhaps you have other experience, and I am sorry for that. But it does not mean that your numbers make sense at all to say the least... 

 

Maybe you should take this disagreement with the article instead. It states which mistakes were due to the team and which due to Lando.

[PrinceBira]

kumo7, on 14 Nov 2024 - 13:27, said:

How can you judge it and what is your proof? None, except TV, I am assuming. If in case youhave telemetry, how can you say that the incident was 100% du Norris'?
Also what is the point o this none sense? How many points have Max lost by his own mistales and how can you compare it?

At the end of the day, does it matter, if the incidents was because of Norris or teams?
I say absolutely not.
Team and driver win and lose together, as long as when we talk about McLaren I know. Perhaps you have other experience, and I am sorry for that. But it does not mean that your numbers make sense at all to say the least...

Do we really need telemetry for every situation? Some mistakes were pretty clear cut.

What I don’t like is that the assumption seems to be that Norris has to be 100% perfect. Nobody is, not even Verstappen (simple example would be his second run in Q3 Monaco that he messed up).

[jonklug]

kumo7, on 14 Nov 2024 - 13:27, said:

How can you judge it and what is your proof? None, except TV, I am assuming. If in case youhave telemetry, how can you say that the incident was 100% du Norris'?

Also what is the point o this none sense? How many points have Max lost by his own mistales and how can you compare it?

 

At the end of the day, does it matter, if the incidents was because of Norris or teams? 

I say absolutely not. 

Team and driver win and lose together, as long as when we talk about McLaren I know. Perhaps you have other experience, and I am sorry for that. But it does not mean that your numbers make sense at all to say the least... 

 

I think they explain in the article, you'll have to read it, it is linked in my post. In regards to Max losing points by his own mistakes... those are a lot fewer. Him being on par with Norris on points since Miami speaks volumes. 

[kumo7]

jonklug, on 14 Nov 2024 - 14:54, said:

I think they explain in the article, you'll have to read it, it is linked in my post. In regards to Max losing points by his own mistakes... those are a lot fewer. Him being on par with Norris on points since Miami speaks volumes. 

 

Al right.

 

But we all n¥know that Norris is supre super critical to himself, all the time, more than he need to be. 

And, fortunately yo uare here to count which is what, ... sort of vague self criticism? 

[kumo7]

PrinceBira, on 14 Nov 2024 - 14:13, said:

Do we really need telemetry for every situation? Some mistakes were pretty clear cut.

What I don’t like is that the assumption seems to be that Norris has to be 100% perfect. Nobody is, not even Verstappen (simple example would be his second run in Q3 Monaco that he messed up).

 

Well, see my post above. 

[kumo7]

Claudius, on 14 Nov 2024 - 14:11, said:

Maybe you should take this disagreement with the article instead. It states which mistakes were due to the team and which due to Lando.

 

See mu post above. idem ditto. 

[jonklug]

kumo7, on 14 Nov 2024 - 15:07, said:

Al right.

 

But we all n¥know that Norris is supre super critical to himself, all the time, more than he need to be. 

And, fortunately yo uare here to count which is what, ... sort of vague self criticism? 

 

I am just sharing an article written by a journalist. It's not like Norris reads this forum and I'm causing him distress, get a grip pls. 

[kumo7]

jonklug, on 14 Nov 2024 - 15:12, said:

I am just sharing an article written by a journalist. It's not like Norris reads this forum and I'm causing him distress, get a grip pls.

Thank you, I can keep it down.

You have made big efforts to type it all out, so it appears to me that you had big interests and passion in doing so. I think it just natural to think so,

[taran]

kumo7, on 14 Nov 2024 - 15:41, said:

Thank you, I can keep it down.

You have made big efforts to type it all out, so it appears to me that you had big interests and passion in doing so. I think it just natural to think so,

Are you serious?

In a thread regarding Norris' championship aspirations, a linked article explains that Norris didn't do a good enough job by not maximising every opportunity (and even spells out how they reach their conclusion) and you are banging on how this is unfair criticism because Norris already said he didn't do a good job. If you can't stand to hear criticism of your favourite driver, you shouldn't frequent racing forums. It's not a safe space.

 

Perhaps you can instead try to refute their claims by giving us your view why Norris didn't underperform compared to his car......

[kumo7]

taran, on 15 Nov 2024 - 10:18, said:

Are you serious?
In a thread regarding Norris' championship aspirations, a linked article explains that Norris didn't do a good enough job by not maximising every opportunity (and even spells out how they reach their conclusion) and you are banging on how this is unfair criticism because Norris already said he didn't do a good job. If you can't stand to hear criticism of your favourite driver, you shouldn't frequent racing forums. It's not a safe space.

Perhaps you can instead try to refute their claims by giving us your view why Norris didn't underperform compared to his car......

Hi Taran, I donno what you are revving up. I pointed out that the article reasons its judgements on what Norris said, that is all there to say.

I know Norris has some issues. And it is like any other drivers. Journalists tends to write more articles with exaggerations at the seasons end, I know it is their job, so here is no surprise to me.
I as a fan simply stay cool in these situations and say what i can say and avoid unnecessary emotional discussions.

If you want my emotional reactions, perhaps you might be wise to look twice about what I wrote. I support Norris and McLaren so I do think that I am doing usual things. I know there are other supporters who goes much harder than what I do, if you know what I mean.

[Mc_Silver]

Lando vs Max battles recap.

https://youtu.be/N2msWsymWK4

Edited by Mc_Silver, 15 November 2024 - 13:22.

[kumo7]

Mc_Silver, on 15 Nov 2024 - 13:16, said:

Lando vs Max battles recap.

https://youtu.be/N2msWsymWK4

cool

[cyclist]

https://www.motorspo...rrari/10675684/

 

What I am supposed to make of Landos comments here? It seems like a way to reduce the criticism of his rather dissappointing season, considering the fact that he had such a good car, and the better car than Max for the majority of the season.

I remember 2022 when Max had two DNFs in the first races and Ferrari had a very fast car and he was over 40 points behind Leclerc. Should he have just given up right there? I still feel he is not being tough enough on himself and the team for the fact hey did not manage to exploit the situation they were in. And by that I do not mean he should be crying or sulking but that he should really put his head down and work harder to motivate the team to do better. McLaren is still struggling with the fact that they can not remain a loveable underdog if the want to win the championships like Red Bull or Merc did. They need to be ruthless and they do not operate like this.

 

I think of Red Bull coming into 2009 as the party team, a breath of fresh air. But when they entered the Vettel years they became more and more professional and had had to shed some of this party mentality in the process.

Edited by cyclist, 23 November 2024 - 10:37.

[FirstnameLastname]

The nos have it, the nos have it.

https://www.motorspo...rrari/10676306/

Max says he would have won the championship even earlier in a McLaren or Ferrari. Other drivers have thrown it away.

[brucewayne]

FirstnameLastname, on 25 Nov 2024 - 16:22, said:

The nos have it, the nos have it.

https://www.motorspo...rrari/10676306/

Max says he would have won the championship even earlier in a McLaren or Ferrari. Other drivers have thrown it away.

That’s not true. Max is a very lucky man, that he did not have an opponent in the first races. McLaren and Ferrari will be there from the start in 2025. RB has to step up, otherwise Max will loose.

[PrinceBira]

brucewayne, on 25 Nov 2024 - 16:37, said:

That’s not true. Max is a very lucky man, that he did not have an opponent in the first races. McLaren and Ferrari will be there from the start in 2025. RB has to step up, otherwise Max will loose.

 

Let's crunch some numbers:

 

Standings after China (last dominant race of RB in my view): 

Verstappen: 110

Perez: 85 (-25)

Leclerc: 76 (-44)

Sainz: 69 (-51)

Norris: 58 (-62)

 

Standings today (after Las Vegas):

Verstappen: 403

Norris: 340 (-63)

Leclerc: 319 (-84)

 

Points gained by Verstappen after China:

Versus Norris: 1 point

Versus Leclerc: 40 points

 

So even if you take away the first dominant races of Red Bull, he'd still be ahead of Norris and he still outscored Leclerc. Granted; a 1 point lead after Las Vegas would make a very exciting end of the season...

[garoidb]

brucewayne, on 25 Nov 2024 - 16:37, said:

That’s not true. Max is a very lucky man, that he did not have an opponent in the first races. McLaren and Ferrari will be there from the start in 2025. RB has to step up, otherwise Max will loose.

 

It depends where you draw the line. He currently has a lead of 63 points. His points lead after winning seven of the first ten races was 69 points. In other words, he would still be in strong contention for the title, only six points behind Lando, if the first ten races never happened. Would you bet that he won't overcome that gap in the next two races?

Edited by garoidb, 25 November 2024 - 17:03.

[Ste678]

garoidb, on 25 Nov 2024 - 17:02, said:

It depends where you draw the line. He currently has a lead of 63 points. His points lead after winning seven of the first ten races was 69 points. In other words, he would still be in strong contention for the title, only six points behind Lando, if the first ten races never happened. Would you bet that he won't overcome that gap in the next two races?

Even crazier when you think Max retired from the lead in Australia (technical dnf - while the McLaren was bullet proof) and had two grid penalties (while Lando had none and the Mercedes engine was also 100% reliable).
I was really worried about Lando and that he would walk this after Zandvoort but in hindsight he has a long way to go.
Next year could easily be his year though, you never know.

[AlexPrime]

brucewayne, on 25 Nov 2024 - 16:37, said:

That’s not true. Max is a very lucky man, that he did not have an opponent in the first races. 

That's weird. Was Lando lucky in Netherlands and Singapore to have no opponent?

[Risil]

jonklug, on 14 Nov 2024 - 15:12, said:

I am just sharing an article written by a journalist. It's not like Norris reads this forum and I'm causing him distress, get a grip pls. 

 

To be fair you don't know that. Some of them do. I think it's always worth assuming when you're posting that they might.

 

Not that I see anything wrong with re-posting one of Keith Collantine's graphs (so long as you credit him anyway). Norris objectively made too many mistakes this year to have a reasonable shot at the title.

[AlexPrime]

Risil, on 25 Nov 2024 - 18:12, said:

To be fair you don't know that. Some of them do. I think it's always worth assuming when you're posting that they might.

 

Not that I see anything wrong with re-posting one of Keith Collantine's graphs (so long as you credit him anyway). Norris objectively made too many mistakes this year to have a reasonable shot at the title.

I think Lando's campaign was okayish, a bit like Seb's in 2009 and 2010, to a degree. With hindsight he doesn't seem much worse than Leclerc, who allows himself to be too emotional, he seems to still have the measure of Piastri, despite his ascendance and I think he is naturally faster than Sainz and maybe on par with George. It is Max, who is exceptional and this makes Lando look like a schmuck, but in reality, he was pretty good. Max himself said it is normal to make mistakes in your first campaign and titles can still come. Maybe he will need a season like 2016 Nico - or adversely, bad cars for Max and probably Lewis, neither of which is impossible. I wouldn't be too surprised if they fight for the title with Oscar next year. 

[AlexPrime]

cyclist, on 23 Nov 2024 - 10:31, said:

https://www.motorspo...rrari/10675684/

 

What I am supposed to make of Landos comments here? It seems like a way to reduce the criticism of his rather dissappointing season, considering the fact that he had such a good car, and the better car than Max for the majority of the season.

 

We cope the way we can... yes, you make valid points, but he is known to be a bit more emotional, so he needs to convince himself and while I don't agree with him, the cushion Max had probably didn't make things easy for him, because he was like "Is it really on" and when he realized game is on, it was already a little bit late in the season. 
Thing is, it is a bit like Nico in 2014, when he realized he really has a juggernaut for a rival. Difference is, that they ain't gonna be in the same car next year. 

[BillBald]

AlexPrime, on 25 Nov 2024 - 18:09, said:

That's weird. Was Lando lucky in Netherlands and Singapore to have no opponent?

 

He had Oscar Piastri in the same car.

[Deeq]

PrinceBira, on 25 Nov 2024 - 17:01, said:

Let's crunch some numbers:

Standings after China (last dominant race of RB in my view):
Verstappen: 110
Perez: 85 (-25)
Leclerc: 76 (-44)
Sainz: 69 (-51)
Norris: 58 (-62)

Standings today (after Las Vegas):
Verstappen: 403
Norris: 340 (-63)
Leclerc: 319 (-84)

Points gained by Verstappen after China:
Versus Norris: 1 point
Versus Leclerc: 40 points

So even if you take away the first dominant races of Red Bull, he'd still be ahead of Norris and he still outscored Leclerc. Granted; a 1 point lead after Las Vegas would make a very exciting end of the season...

He was in a dominant car first races than less dominant car several races.
RBR was better car than Ferrari more often than not even after Miami.
Ferrari hade much lower floor 4th than RRR 3rd.. strategy wise the teams are very different "classes".

[MikeTekRacing]

6 races out of a 24 races season is very little. Norris had the better car way more often than that - but nothing to show for it

[brucewayne]

Deeq, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:20, said:

He was in a dominant car first races than less dominant car several races.
RBR was better car than Ferrari more often than not even after Miami.
Ferrari hade much lower floor 4th than RRR 3rd.. strategy wise the teams are very different "classes".

This. For Ferrari, the Barcelona update really influenced the outcome. For McLaren, their big update arrived in Miami and they needed a couple of races to tweak the potential. It would be interesting to compare these numbers after the summer break. I really think RBs big struggles started after the break. Nevertheless, if Max says something like that, he must be very confident that McLaren had the fastest car throughout the year.

Edited by brucewayne, 25 November 2024 - 20:28.

[Bliman]

MikeTekRacing, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:24, said:

6 races out of a 24 races season is very little. Norris had the better car way more often than that - but nothing to show for it

I don't think he had the better car for far more races.

[Bliman]

brucewayne, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:27, said:

This. For Ferrari, the Barcelona update really influenced the outcome. For McLaren, their big update arrived in Miami and they needed a couple of races to tweak the potential. It would be interesting to compare these numbers after the summer break. I really think RBs big struggles started after the break. Nevertheless, if Max says something like that, he must be very confident that McLaren had the fastest car throughout the year.

Also Mclaren started to struggle again the last few races again. I think one of the technical directions has pegged them back a great deal.

[Anja]

FirstnameLastname, on 25 Nov 2024 - 16:22, said:

The nos have it, the nos have it.

https://www.motorspo...rrari/10676306/

Max says he would have won the championship even earlier in a McLaren or Ferrari. Other drivers have thrown it away.

 

Maybe, maybe not. In a McLaren or Ferrari he'd lose points through the team's operational errors just like Norris or Leclerc. Red Bull is still clearly the best team in that area. 

[MikeTekRacing]

Bliman, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:28, said:

I don't think he had the better car for far more races.

from Miami to yesterday there were 16 races where Mclaren was either the better car by a lot, marginally better or at least equal to RB (ver rare).

[brucewayne]

Anja, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:30, said:

Maybe, maybe not. In a McLaren or Ferrari he'd lose points through the team's operational errors just like Norris or Leclerc. Red Bull is still clearly the best team in that area.

In their bad stretch, RB was just a team as the others with the same mistakes. Even Max had really really bad weekends, sometimes back to back.

https://x.com/f1guyd...Osfp9l5bhDKm2ug

Points after the summer break, I see this as a confirmation. With a better teammate, this would be even worse for Max. Nevertheless, a well deserved champion. 2025 will be fun.

[MikeTekRacing]

Anja, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:30, said:

Maybe, maybe not. In a McLaren or Ferrari he'd lose points through the team's operational errors just like Norris or Leclerc. Red Bull is still clearly the best team in that area. 

some are team errors, some are driver errors or diver corrected and we don't see them.

Red Bull make errors too. 3 days ago they were cutting the rear wing on the spot....

[brucewayne]

Bliman, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:30, said:

Also Mclaren started to struggle again the last few races again. I think one of the technical directions has pegged them back a great deal.

At least on low downforce tracks, they seem to have lost their advantage.

[ARTGP]

Anja, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:30, said:

Maybe, maybe not. In a McLaren or Ferrari he'd lose points through the team's operational errors just like Norris or Leclerc. Red Bull is still clearly the best team in that area. 

 

In your view, what were Mclaren's operational errors and how many points did it cost Norris this season? The only real cases for debate are Canada, Spa, and Silverstone.   In Canada you could call the safety car bad luck and not Mclaren's fault (or else you have to say Red Bull bottled Miami because they made Verstappen pit before the safety car).  In Spa, Norris gave Mclaren a load of work to do because he bottled the start. In Silverstone, Hamilton and Verstappen made their own calls which gave them an advantage (Norris bottled the start and every strat call).  In Brazil, Norris was begging to pit while Russell and Verstappen told their teams they wanted to stay out. 

So actually you can't even truly call it Mclaren bad strategy in any race because it was either bad luck or Mclaren having to make lemonade from the lemons that Norris gave them (like needing team orders after bottling the starts in Hungary and Monza and all the places he is dropping on starts). 

Red Bull also had operational errors.  Bad pitstop in Austria. Bad strategy in Hungary. Perez DRS train in Spa. If you really consider it, Red Bull damaged Verstappen's races directly and with 0 fault of Verstappen more than Mclaren did to Norris over the season. 

 

Verstappen would have won in that Mclaren and you don't even need to get into a "my driver is faster than yours" petty argument. Verstappen is just tactically superior. He doesn't bottle starts. 8 for 8 from pole to leading first lap. He doesn't get overtaken around the outside of a chicane (Monza). He doesn't leave doors open on the inside (Austria Sprint T4, COTA T1). He doesn't do all the muppet stuff that Norris does on the first lap and that alone makes every race easier for both the driver and the pitwall. Verstappen would have made Mclaren pitwall look like geniuses because they wouldn't have to put in a day's work most of the time. What is there to do when your driver starts from pole in the fastest car and then disappears?  Contrast that to having to cover for every lap 1 bottle of Norris...

 

 

This is how you cover T1 off in COTA:

 

 

 

What does Mclaren operations have to do with this? My god isn't this stuff obvious? Speed is not the problem. Norris is just tactically nowhere compared to Verstappen. Most drivers seem to treat basic racing tactics like unsolicited advice. Verstappen treats them like its life or death. 

Edited by ARTGP, 25 November 2024 - 21:02.

[Bliman]

MikeTekRacing, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:34, said:

from Miami to yesterday there were 16 races where Mclaren was either the better car by a lot, marginally better or at least equal to RB (ver rare).

No way. Not a chance.

[MikeTekRacing]

reality denial is a thing

[Bliman]

MikeTekRacing, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:55, said:

reality denial is a thing

But what are you going to do about it   (just kidding)? I haven't gone really in depth about it but I seriously doubt that Mclaren had a better car for so many races.  That doesn't seem right at all. Norris and Mclaren aren't great but they were not so bad.

[MikeTekRacing]

Bliman, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:58, said:

But what are you going to do about it   (just kidding)? I haven't gone really in depth about it but I seriously doubt that Mclaren had a better car for so many races.  That doesn't seem right at all. Norris and Mclaren aren't great but they were not so bad.

 

I think they had had quicker car a lot more often than their results show it. If the cars were close or thereabout Max finished in front or at least made it a race. When the car was fast Norris fumbled a few times, throwing away track position at starts for instance (Hungary, Spa, Monza...). Yes, Mclaren made some errors too - but some of that is also being because Norris didn't correct them. Silverstone for instance - he didn't override the team. Brazil Max was clear he is not pitting etc.

I think his season was good for a good driver. But to beat Max he had to be close to flawless when the car was there and left WAY too many points on the table.

With the fastest car Max takes no prisoners.

With a fast and competitive car Max wins more often than not.

With a fast but uncompetitive car Max maximizes things (unless he goes dark mode like Saudi Arabia 21 or Mexico 24).

[Bliman]

MikeTekRacing, on 25 Nov 2024 - 23:21, said:

I think they had had quicker car a lot more often than their results show it. If the cars were close or thereabout Max finished in front or at least made it a race. When the car was fast Norris fumbled a few times, throwing away track position at starts for instance (Hungary, Spa, Monza...). Yes, Mclaren made some errors too - but some of that is also being because Norris didn't correct them. Silverstone for instance - he didn't override the team. Brazil Max was clear he is not pitting etc.

I think his season was good for a good driver. But to beat Max he had to be close to flawless when the car was there and left WAY too many points on the table.

With the fastest car Max takes no prisoners.

With a fast and competitive car Max wins more often than not.

With a fast but uncompetitive car Max maximizes things (unless he goes dark mode like Saudi Arabia 21 or Mexico 24).

It is clear that Max and Red Bull maximize their results all the time. But I don't think Mclaren had so many times the better car. When you have the better car you have the better car. I don't think Norris made many grave errors that a better car wouldn't solve. Also remember that Max has done things this year that were controversial when Mclaren had the better car.

[BillBald]

MikeTekRacing, on 25 Nov 2024 - 20:37, said:

some are team errors, some are driver errors or diver corrected and we don't see them.

Red Bull make errors too. 3 days ago they were cutting the rear wing on the spot....

 

Red Bull usually recover from their errors.

[Sterzo]

In answer to the thread title: No.