153 replies to this topic

[sterlingfan2000]

Renault will pull the plug on its Formula 1 engine operations ahead of the new rules era in 2026.

Renault Statement regarding 2025:

Formula 1 activities at Viry, excluding the development of a new engine, will continue until the end of the 2025 season,”

[ANF]

https://www.motorspo...-2025/10659346/

[Francesc]

Another step to selling the team.

[Secretariat]

End of an era. However, I continue to wonder how, if at all, Horse Powertrain, which is a joint venture between Renault, Geely and Saudi Aramco, factors into this decision making.

[Anja]

A sad day. 

[pup]

I want to know more about their new “F1 Monitoring Unit”. Is this some boondoggle to maintain paddock passes for execs, or just a sweet new TV for the factory break room?

Edited by pup, 30 September 2024 - 16:18.

[Myrvold]

End of an era. However, I continue to wonder how, if at all, Horse Powertrain, which is a joint venture between Renault, Geely and Saudi Aramco, factors into this decision making.

 

As it looks like Viry will be continuing with everything except the F1 stuff, this confuses me as well!

[KWSN - DSM]

A shame, and for F1 a bloody nose in how a manufacturer, and a manufacturer ranking very highly globally now change to become a customer team.

[jonklug]

Went downhill after sacking Cyril

[DJH63]

Not really *that* surprising, it’s accepted fact in the paddock that Merc will be in their own class from 2026 and even with measures to allow others to catch up ‘quickly’ that’s going to be an expensive and time consuming process. Might as well buy in a Merc engine and accept second class citizenship. 

[pup]

Might as well buy in a Merc engine and accept second class citizenship.

McLaren quite comfortable in the cheap seats.

[KWSN - DSM]

Not really *that* surprising, it’s accepted fact in the paddock that Merc will be in their own class from 2026 and even with measures to allow others to catch up ‘quickly’ that’s going to be an expensive and time consuming process. Might as well buy in a Merc engine and accept second class citizenship. 

 

I know it is, but I am dumb enough to still think that we and the paddock do not really know, and will not know until cars start running laps on tracks.

[danmills]

I bet Russell gets thrown there if Max moves to Mercedes.

 

Will they still be called Alpine?

 

They would be dark horses for progress in 2026 with the new Mercedes unit.

Edited by danmills, 30 September 2024 - 16:51.

[Sterzo]

Renault's sales, revenue and profits have gone up as the performance of the team has gone down. It may be that those on the board who see F1 as a distraction (and the team's had a tumultous time at the director level) have won the day, pointing out its irrelevance to overall performance. It certainly hasn't enhanced their image in the last few years. (I'm assuming this is a step towards offloading the team itself, which the Mercedes contract would help with).

[LolaB0860]

 

Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Edited by LolaB0860, 30 September 2024 - 16:58.

[Junky]

This is the ultimate shame for the whole Renault group, in my opinion. It is so embarrasing; it is the type of things that goes way beyond some dozens of Excel lines. Basically, de Meo is saying to the world that the brand he manages is not capable of doing a reasonable job, at least, with the existent technology.

 

[P123]

This is the ultimate shame for the whole Renault group, in my opinion. It is so embarrasing; it is the type of things that goes way beyond some dozens of Excel lines. Basically, de Meo is saying to the world that the brand he manages is not capable of doing a reasonable job, at least, with the existent technology.

 

 

They didn't want to commit the funds required for R&D of the new PU.  Weak stuff, but the rebrand to Alpine was always an odd one, and the surrender flag is almost fully raised.

[Joseki]

Not really *that* surprising, it’s accepted fact in the paddock that Merc will be in their own class from 2026 and even with measures to allow others to catch up ‘quickly’ that’s going to be an expensive and time consuming process. Might as well buy in a Merc engine and accept second class citizenship. 

I genuinely don't remember the last time a major "rumored performance" turned out to be true in F1.

 

In 2012-13 Renault was rumored to be the engine to beat (worst engine in 2014).

In 2017 Ferrari was rumored to be massively behind (almost title contenders).

In 2022 Red Bull was rumored to be hugely behind schedule (won both WDC and WCC).

[pdac]

This is the ultimate shame for the whole Renault group, in my opinion. It is so embarrasing; it is the type of things that goes way beyond some dozens of Excel lines. Basically, de Meo is saying to the world that the brand he manages is not capable of doing a reasonable job, at least, with the existent technology.

 

 

Not really, he's saying that they cannot compete - which could well be that they do not want to throw the same level of resources at the project as other manufacturers are. It's also saying that this is not so important to their brands, which could well be true.

[Anderis]

I genuinely don't remember the last time a major "rumored performance" turned out to be true in F1.

 

In 2012-13 Renault was rumored to be the engine to beat (worst engine in 2014).

In 2017 Ferrari was rumored to be massively behind (almost title contenders).

In 2022 Red Bull was rumored to be hugely behind schedule (won both WDC and WCC).

I don't remember any of the rumours that you mention.

 

But I remember this:

https://forums.autos...moured-in-amus/

[andysaint]

How much did Renault want to come back in, in 2016 as a manufacturer or did f1 seemingly not want to see a team disappear? (Formerly lotus) I don’t get the impression Renault has been fully committed to F1 for a very long time.

[Disgrace]

An embarrassing failure given that they loaded the turbo hybrid gun that killed them. That being said, this move is surely... good?

 

They have no reason to sell, the team is making money. Now those profits will be turbocharged. With a decent chassis in 2026, they could be Williams in 2014/15.

 

The mood in Enstone is probably celebratory. But yes, their identity will be gone and with it any reason to particularly support the team.

[Anderis]

I know it is, but I am dumb enough to still think that we and the paddock do not really know, and will not know until cars start running laps on tracks.

The reports from mid 2013 about Mercedes advantage turned out to be 100% true in 2014, so while I think it's still possible someone would try to make reports in the media without much to back it up, I'm pretty sure the paddock knows more than 0 about the situation. And there's still room for developments such as the other manufacturers finding major gains in the last months before the 2026 season start or Mercedes finding out they have a flaw in their design that'll force them to make some detrimental last minute changes despite very promising initial numbers, sorta like Williams was forced to do with their car in 2011, which was very quick in testing but found out to have an illegal floor and the car lost its pace after the floor was adjusted.

 

Renault ditching their engine for 2026 and Sainz signing with Williams may suggest the word in the paddock is that Mercedes is ahead at the moment. Engineers constantly change teams so there's no way that information about development stays hermetic IMO.

[Disgrace]

This is the ultimate shame for the whole Renault group, in my opinion. It is so embarrasing; it is the type of things that goes way beyond some dozens of Excel lines. Basically, de Meo is saying to the world that the brand he manages is not capable of doing a reasonable job, at least, with the existent technology.

 

More shameful yet would be to persist with the engine project, then arrive in 2026 at the back of the grid with a lemon and all the money spent. If the assessment has been made that Viry can't compete, then he's made the right call to call it off right now.

[Henri Greuter]

Gonaa be interesting to see how Alpine will do in the 2025 season, using engines supplied  by a company that's on the way out.

[Afterburner]

I don't remember any of the rumours that you mention.

But I remember this:
https://forums.autos...moured-in-amus/

I miss the early days of internet translation software:

The competition was the World Champion subscription between bouts fret. At the end of the season of Heppenheim but had always reason to stretch the index finger in the air.

…

In particular, the discussion of the dimensions of the rear tire recently in Hungary is an indication that the V6 turbo from Brixworth has a bit more smoke on the chain.

[pup]

Gonaa be interesting to see how Alpine will do in the 2025 season, using engines supplied by a company that's on the way out.

Well they can’t fall too far.

[Clatter]

Gonaa be interesting to see how Alpine will do in the 2025 season, using engines supplied by a company that's on the way out.

Be just like this season. Doubt it will affect the build quality, but they won't be getting any extra HP

[1player]

Not really *that* surprising, it’s accepted fact in the paddock that Merc will be in their own class from 2026

Source? First time I hear of this fact. Is it because Mercedes has/would have the greatest number of customer teams that somehow guarantees their performance come 2026?

[Nathan]

Can Renault sell their '26-'27 PU participation pass to GM?

[KWSN - DSM]

Do any of the manufacturers actually have a fully build engine on a dyno yet?

[TheAviator]

Embarassing team.

[absinthedude]

A reminder that manufacturers don't stick around forever. 

 

We are *very* fortunate that Mercedes is happy to supply fully competitive engines to customers, and even see them beat the factory Mercedes team. 

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Alpine with Renault PU in my opinion:

 

2021: Alpine 5th in WCC (Chassis score 60%, PU score 70%)

 

2022: Alpine 4th in WCC (Chassis score 70%, PU score 50%*) *Power Unit was unreliable

 

2023: Alpine 6th in WCC (Chassis score 60%, PU score 70%)

 

2024: Alpine 9th in WCC (As of right now) (Chassis score 30%, PU score 70%)

 

I wonder if Renault PU is the main problem!?

Edited by RainyAfterlifeDaylight, 30 September 2024 - 18:27.

[Metronazol]

More shameful yet would be to persist with the engine project, then arrive in 2026 at the back of the grid with a lemon and all the money spent. If the assessment has been made that Viry can't compete, then he's made the right call to call it off right now.

Exactly this - the team itself is now worth a fortune by default; why piss profit down the drain on a substandard engine when you can get one off the shelf for less and still watch your total worth continue to grow, for a director, its beyond a no brainer.

[TheAviator]

Alpine with Renault PU in my opinion:

2021: Alpine 5th in WCC (Chassis score 60%, PU score 70%)

2022: Alpine 4th in WCC (Chassis score 70%, PU score 50%*) *Power Unit was unreliable

2023: Alpine 6th in WCC (Chassis score 60%, PU score 70%)

2024: Alpine 9th in WCC (As of right now) (Chassis score 30%, PU score 70%)

I wonder if Renault PU is the main problem!?

For sure it is if everyone around is driving with 20-30hp more. There is expectation that engines are roundabout in power (~5hp) that they do not drive actual competitive advantage, whereas being up to 30hp down means you are starting with unclawable deficit.

Interesting that FIA agreed with other engine manufacturers and rejected Renaults plead to unfreeze engine again to do one more update.

[OvDrone]

[loki]

Quelle horreur…

 

I thought this was a done deal a couple months ago.

[Alexis*27]

Insanity. What's the point of being there if they're publicly advertising that their engines are pants.

Imagine Ferrari ditching their PUs for Hondas. Showroom sales would plummet.

[Nathan]

Ferrari buyers would care, why would a Civic or Megane buyer?

[LolaB0860]

Well this is the same brand that's been rebadging stock Orecas in LMP racing as their own car for over a decade, so being lazy and/or pretending to be someone else is in their modern blood anyway.

[djparky]

Manufacturers come and go, Renault don't want to spend money going nowhere in F1 so have decided to pull the plug on it.

[Fastcake]

As I said in the other thread, Renault ending their engine operations after several decades of near continuous presence since the original turbo era - if occasionally under someone else's badge - is a big moment for Formula One. Even while Renault had one of their periodic withdrawals from F1, they usually kept a toe in the sport with their engine programme.

 

If we presume Renault will eventually tire of Alpine propping up the lower midfield for yet another season, for a car brand that is hardly a runaway success, that could be the end of their participation for good.

[FirstnameLastname]

Not like the French to wave the white flag and give up

[pdac]

Gonaa be interesting to see how Alpine will do in the 2025 season, using engines supplied  by a company that's on the way out.

 

Well, Red Bull did pretty well in the last season when Honda decided to quit (causing Honda to hang around a bit longer, it seems).

[GreenMachine]

I posted at the time that it was a bad sign that Dan bailed so soon, speculating that he had seen stuff that pointed downhill, or failed to see stuff that was necessary to improve the team.  What we have seen since is classic 'big business knows how to run F1', but eventually they have to put up the white flag, and Flavio's involvement (again) is that flag.

 

Where to now?  I am on the 'sale' bus.  In the meantime, 2025 is looking like a bumpy road for them.   

[George Costanza]

Quite a sad occurrence.

[JimmyClark]

Considering that Renault push themselves as a market leader of hybrid and electric technology in road cars, this is incredibly embarrassing for them. However, it's felt like a rotten operation for years, so maybe this was inevitable.

Still, they could have had this saviour... https://x.com/richen...-qMB4ASLcQ&s=19

[cyclist]

I guess this puts the Enstone team on the market to be sold, as I just don't see any point in them competing anymore.

[pdac]

Considering that Renault push themselves as a market leader of hybrid and electric technology in road cars, this is incredibly embarrassing for them. However, it's felt like a rotten operation for years, so maybe this was inevitable.

Still, they could have had this saviour... https://x.com/richen...-qMB4ASLcQ&s=19

 

F1 is not electric and i would not say it's that hybrid either.