119 replies to this topic

[WonderWoman61]

Here's the Calendar

1, 2, 3 26/27 April Donington Park (National)
4, 5, 6 10/11 May Brands Hatch (Indy)
7, 8, 9 24/25 May Snetterton (300)
10, 11, 12 07/08 June Thruxton
13, 14, 15 21/22 June Oulton Park (Island)
16, 17, 18 02/03 August Croft
19, 20, 21 16/17 August Knockhill
22, 23, 24 30/31 August Donington Park (GP)
25, 26, 27 20/21 September Silverstone (National)
28, 29, 30 04/05 October Brands Hatch (GP)

[Silverstone96]

If it is last year of current tech regs then I certainly wouldn’t expect any teams to be bringing new cars.

[PayasYouRace]

I hope we get a few more cars next year. The grid looked a bit thin at times this season.

[WonderWoman61]

Thought the new regs were coming in 2027

[Silverstone96]

Thought the new regs were coming in 2027

You may well be correct! Was looking for some further info on it to be honest.

Napa are in a funny position, they may feel they have taken the focus as far as they can but if there are only 1-2 years left of the current regs it’s hard to see them justifying the expense.

[BRG]

The old Vauxhall Astra still seems pretty competitive if Brands was anything to go by, and the Focus is a spring chicken in comparison.

 

Anyway, the nature of BTCC means that the chassis isn't the defining feature.  A MG ZS from two decades ago could probably still be competitive, using the current engine and hybrid system.

[Silverstone96]

Astra hasn’t won a race for 5 years now, PMR do a great job with what they have to keep it competitive but these cars are still moving on.

Focus was class of field last season but it was never really more than the 3rd best car this year.

[PayasYouRace]

Yeah I don’t think any of the base model chassis are fundamentally uncompetitive. The Focus looked a lost cause but Motorbase really turned it around in the last couple of years. They just need the right development underneath.

[JHSingo]

I suppose the challenge for any team wanting to build a new car still remains the state of the car market as a whole. Granted, I don't really pay too much attention to it because it's all so bland and uninspiring, but it seems like pretty much everything that is launched these days is an EV, an SUV, or an electric SUV. Is there really that much new metal that a team could choose that would be suitable for NGTC these days? 

Cost aside, that's probably why the same cars appear on the BTCC grid year after year, because there isn't really a great choice to replace them with.  

[PayasYouRace]

Absolutely right on that front. Though didn’t Gow state that the rules also cater for crossover SUVs? It would just take someone to build one. I think the Ford Puma or Kuga would be entirely suitable for a BTCC car (they’re no bigger than the last generation Fiesta and Focus respectively). Similar with most other manufacturers.

[Silverstone96]

I never understood why a team didn’t have a crack building an Alfa Romeo Giulia, RWD and similar dimensions to BMW 3 series.

It would have looked great and been a fan favourite, can only assume there’s something in the engine layout that may have been a hinderance with the rules.

Edited by Silverstone96, 08 October 2024 - 10:51.

[midgrid]

This sounds like Adam Morgan won't be returning with WSR.

[andysaint]

This sounds like Adam Morgan won't be returning with WSR.

Agree looks like it. It’s never really gelled for him and WSR. He does have backing so I hope to see him back in some guise.

The BTCC was short by around 4-6 cars this year. I think 24-26 cars is ideal. The racing did improve with fewer safety cars having some drivers leave.

I don’t particularly hear a lot about plans for next season. Quite a bit seems to happen late on so it will be interesting to see what talks happen early next year.

I do agree re the focus. I think Sutton took that car to places it shouldn’t have been this season.

Will Toyota Gazoo be back? That was a disappointing season for them

The Astra is going to be at the end of its life now will PMR buy another car?

Do WSR have funding to run 3 cars?

I worry for the grid next year, I think it could see fewer cars than this year

[F1matt]

Would a car based on an SUV crossover such as a Vauxhall Mokka or Ford Kuga be able to have a centre of gravity that is low enough to compete with a traditional saloon car?

[Silverstone96]

I’d imagine they could, you could build with the suv shell but it would still need to be lowered to the same ride height as the others, much like how the Brazilian touring cars are

Edited by Silverstone96, 09 October 2024 - 10:14.

[PayasYouRace]

Would a car based on an SUV crossover such as a Vauxhall Mokka or Ford Kuga be able to have a centre of gravity that is low enough to compete with a traditional saloon car?

There’s not a lot of weight in the top of the body of these cars. They’re also not much higher than their equivalent modern hatchbacks and saloons.

[BRG]

Would a car based on an SUV crossover such as a Vauxhall Mokka or Ford Kuga be able to have a centre of gravity that is low enough to compete with a traditional saloon car?

M-Sport (Ford) have used the Puma in the WRC to replace the defunct Fiesta.  It hasn't made any apparent difference, even on the tarmac events.

 

And that pug-ugly Subaru Levorg that was used in the BTCC a few years ago seemed to be OK other than being an offence to the eyes.

[Silverstone96]

It certainly could be done, it’s just whether a manufacturer would see fit to do so as it’s not a route I see a privateer taking.

[PayasYouRace]

I guess the BTCC probably should reflect what’s on the road to some extent.

Looking at the past, when it was ironically called the BSCC, there were a lot more non-saloon body types in the series.

[P0inters]

So NAPA will be replacing the Focus with a FWD saloon from a new manufacturer in 2026. Clearly not worried about the regulation changes. 

[Silverstone96]

So NAPA will be replacing the Focus with a FWD saloon from a new manufacturer in 2026. Clearly not worried about the regulation changes.

Interesting, any more details?

[F1matt]

According to an article from 2 days ago the RAC list these as the top 10 selling cars in the UK:

 

 

Ford Puma         

Kia Sportage      

Nissan Qashqai 

Nissan Juke        

Volkswagen Golf              

Hyundai Tucson

Audi A3

Volkswagen Polo              

Tesla Model Y    

MG HS 

 

 

I don’t think any of them are raced, although Ford and Hyundai are represented. This probably shows the problem TOCA and other touring car organisations have, cars that run in their respective series are no longer a true reflection of what the average family is driving and why it openly appeals to the die hards and not the casual viewer.  Maybe the next regulations should allow some crossovers, coupes, and the traditional tourer.

 

Link: https://www.rac.co.u...cars-in-the-uk/

[PayasYouRace]

I think all those cars could be built into NGTC cars. Well the Tesla with the ToCA engine would be a weird one.

[JHSingo]

I don’t think any of them are raced, although Ford and Hyundai are represented. This probably shows the problem TOCA and other touring car organisations have, cars that run in their respective series are no longer a true reflection of what the average family is driving and why it openly appeals to the die hards and not the casual viewer.  Maybe the next regulations should allow some crossovers, coupes, and the traditional tourer.

 

Link: https://www.rac.co.u...cars-in-the-uk/

 

Yeah, it's what I've felt for a long time now - the 'touring car' (or, at least, my definition of one - the typical four door saloon car) no longer exists. As for touring car racing globally, well it's pretty much an extinct form of motorsport at this stage. 

A while ago I had the idea of the BTCC going down more of a GT4 route, given the broad range of car models that caters to - Toyota Supras, M4s, Mustangs etc. Personally, seeing those types of cars in the series would reignite my enthusiasm far more than some ugly, dreary SUVs. 

[midgrid]

AmD ran a Golf (although I assume a previous model) in the series for several years in the 2010s.

[F1matt]

Yeah, it's what I've felt for a long time now - the 'touring car' (or, at least, my definition of one - the typical four door saloon car) no longer exists. As for touring car racing globally, well it's pretty much an extinct form of motorsport at this stage. 

A while ago I had the idea of the BTCC going down more of a GT4 route, given the broad range of car models that caters to - Toyota Supras, M4s, Mustangs etc. Personally, seeing those types of cars in the series would reignite my enthusiasm far more than some ugly, dreary SUVs. 

 

Does the BTCC then run the risk of clashing with the BRDC and their GT championship? There is also the risk of running against the Cayman series which supports the BTCC. Maybe allowing a choice of 4 doors, coupes, and SUV crossovers might differentiate the series from other forms such as GTs.

[Silverstone96]

Gow would never go down the GT4 route, the NGTC formula and subsequent standard parts and Toca engine give him a lot more control which I struggle to see him giving up

Edited by Silverstone96, 09 October 2024 - 15:15.

[PayasYouRace]

Yeah, it's what I've felt for a long time now - the 'touring car' (or, at least, my definition of one - the typical four door saloon car) no longer exists. As for touring car racing globally, well it's pretty much an extinct form of motorsport at this stage.

A while ago I had the idea of the BTCC going down more of a GT4 route, given the broad range of car models that caters to - Toyota Supras, M4s, Mustangs etc. Personally, seeing those types of cars in the series would reignite my enthusiasm far more than some ugly, dreary SUVs.

There’s already a British GT Chanpionship.

Have the cars of the BTCC ever been that exciting on the road?

[Sterzo]

There’s already a British GT Chanpionship.

Have the cars of the BTCC ever been that exciting on the road?

Alfa Romeo Alfa Romeo Alfa Romeo

[P0inters]

Interesting, any more details?

The article is on Autosport. Apparently the manufacturer also wants them to run a GT program in the future.

[andysaint]

M-Sport (Ford) have used the Puma in the WRC to replace the defunct Fiesta. It hasn't made any apparent difference, even on the tarmac events.

And that pug-ugly Subaru Levorg that was used in the BTCC a few years ago seemed to be OK other than being an offence to the eyes.

One thing that strikes me about touring cars is how low they get them. I can see how the Puma can work in the WRC but I struggle to see them circuit racing

[andysaint]

According to an article from 2 days ago the RAC list these as the top 10 selling cars in the UK:


Ford Puma
Kia Sportage
Nissan Qashqai
Nissan Juke
Volkswagen Golf
Hyundai Tucson
Audi A3
Volkswagen Polo
Tesla Model Y
MG HS


I don’t think any of them are raced, although Ford and Hyundai are represented. This probably shows the problem TOCA and other touring car organisations have, cars that run in their respective series are no longer a true reflection of what the average family is driving and why it openly appeals to the die hards and not the casual viewer. Maybe the next regulations should allow some crossovers, coupes, and the traditional tourer.

Link: https://www.rac.co.u...cars-in-the-uk/

It’s interesting how consumer habits have changed. I don’t particularly like modern cars especially the crossovers. Yes taller is more suitable for families (I’ve just got a Meriva for my young family and I absolutely see the point) but for me they really do lack cabin and boot space.

Looking back to the 90s, some of the cars were derided as salesman cars such as the Vectra. The 850 estate was seen as a joke. But fast forward 20 years they are hailed as some of the best touring cars ever.

Will we look back in 20 years with such fondness of these cars? I don’t think so.

[PayasYouRace]

One thing that strikes me about touring cars is how low they get them. I can see how the Puma can work in the WRC but I struggle to see them circuit racing

What’s the part you’re struggling with?

[Silverstone96]

The article is on Autosport. Apparently the manufacturer also wants them to run a GT program in the future.

Just seen this, very interesting. Seems they feel the focus is cooked and plans with another manufacturer are already well advanced.

Shame they couldn’t bring this for 2025 and take a bit of short term pain, also of note that the new car will carry over into new regs in 2027.

[PayasYouRace]

Would it kill you to post a link?

 

https://www.autospor...-2026/10661596/

[BRG]

One thing that strikes me about touring cars is how low they get them. I can see how the Puma can work in the WRC but I struggle to see them circuit racing

Not sure how much lower you want them to go?

 

More to the point is that it is too short to meet the current BTCC 4.4m minimum length,  As is the VW Polo incidentally.

[F1matt]

Not sure how much lower you want them to go?

 

More to the point is that it is too short to meet the current BTCC 4.4m minimum length,  As is the VW Polo incidentally.

 

 

TBF it makes me look at the Subaru Levorg in a completely new light. What a horrific looking machine I can see why no product partner wants to put their name to that, I am surprised Ford allowed them to put the badge on. 

[PayasYouRace]

What?! That’s an awesome looking rally car.

[F1matt]

What?! That’s an awesome looking rally car.

 

 

I am going to avoid diving down this rabbit hole, its a whole other thread!

[Silverstone96]

Napa did come close to running an Audi A4 a couple of years ago so wonder if they may be revisiting this.

[midgrid]

Scott Sumpton has announced his departure from Restart Racing on social media.

[BRG]

I shall miss him.  

 

Did he race in the BTCC?

[midgrid]

He played an important role in filling the gap between Nick Halstead and the rest of the field.

[Pete_f1]

I hope the future sees a good mix of cars people recognise from the road.

Not to fast and not to wide.

[PayasYouRace]

I only remember him because his name sounds a bit like Sutton, and sometimes if I was not paying attention 100%, I'd get a shock when the commentators mentioned he'd gone off or whatever.

[midgrid]

Unlimited are planning to run a second León for someone to partner DeLeon.

(I only just realised what a good driver name-car name combination this is.)

[Sterzo]

Unlimited are planning to run a second León for someone to partner DeLeon.

(I only just realised what a good driver name-car name combination this is.)

So there's still a SEAT available?

[NewMrMe]

According to an article from 2 days ago the RAC list these as the top 10 selling cars in the UK:

 

 

Ford Puma         

Kia Sportage      

Nissan Qashqai 

Nissan Juke        

Volkswagen Golf              

Hyundai Tucson

Audi A3

Volkswagen Polo              

Tesla Model Y    

MG HS 

 

 

I don’t think any of them are raced, although Ford and Hyundai are represented. This probably shows the problem TOCA and other touring car organisations have, cars that run in their respective series are no longer a true reflection of what the average family is driving and why it openly appeals to the die hards and not the casual viewer.  Maybe the next regulations should allow some crossovers, coupes, and the traditional tourer.

 

 

The problem is that SUVs and crossovers would be a worse starting point for a racing model due to the higher centre of gravity. Agree it is a problem though. If you look back to the heydey of the Super Touring era of the 1990s large hatchbacks were the typical family car.

 

One interesting note from that list is that for VW group cars the traditional hatchbacks are outselling their SUV derivatives.

[Silverstone96]

The problem is that SUVs and crossovers would be a worse starting point for a racing model due to the higher centre of gravity. Agree it is a problem though. If you look back to the heydey of the Super Touring era of the 1990s large hatchbacks were the typical family car.

One interesting note from that list is that for VW group cars the traditional hatchbacks are outselling their SUV derivatives.

1 ford and no Vauxhalls from that list too, times really have changed!

[BRG]

Unlimited are planning to run a second León for someone to partner DeLeon.

(I only just realised what a good driver name-car name combination this is.)

Can they find a driver called de Cupra to fil it?

 

So there's still a SEAT available?

Good joke but see above.....sorry!