Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

BTCC 2025


  • Please log in to reply
124 replies to this topic

#51 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,682 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 15 October 2024 - 17:43

Dick Bennetts was at Brooklands where he confirmed that WSR will run four cars next year - two "full" BMW entries and two MB entries - with two unchanged drivers, presumably Hill and Turkington, in the line-up.

Advertisement

#52 Silverstone96

Silverstone96
  • Member

  • 1,191 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 18 October 2024 - 11:18

midgrid, on 15 Oct 2024 - 17:43, said:

Dick Bennetts was at Brooklands where he confirmed that WSR will run four cars next year - two "full" BMW entries and two MB entries - with two unchanged drivers, presumably Hill and Turkington, in the line-up.


Jake Hill was on MWM this week and said his preference is to stay next season.

I suspect if Bobby Thompson has got his budget together he will be in one of the other BMW’s.

#53 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,682 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 18 October 2024 - 11:20

Andrew Watson is also managed by MB, so he could be a candidate.

I was also catching up on print Auto sports and noticed that a story about Rob Huff competing in Macau this year mentions that he wants to stay with Toyota for 2025.

#54 F1matt

F1matt
  • Member

  • 3,963 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 18 October 2024 - 14:26

This is a positive move for the championship which should see 4 quick drivers in four quick BMW’s chuck in Tom Ingram who is quick in everything, Ash Sutton and Dan Cammish who are quick enough to be at the sharp end in a slowing Focus, Josh Cook who is quick in a Toyota, that leaves us plenty of consistent drivers who can pick up wins and points to keep them in the championship hunt, even if the grid is smaller than it has been in the past.



#55 F1Frog

F1Frog
  • Member

  • 949 posts
  • Joined: August 21

Posted 20 October 2024 - 21:48

I’ve been watching the 2022 season back and it is really convincing me that if they can’t get Cook, the best option for Excelr8 as teammate to Ingram would be to bring back Gordon Shedden. He would be on a similar level, probably, to Cammish and Turkington and really support Ingram’s title bid well.

#56 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 51,612 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 20 October 2024 - 22:00

What is Shedden doing nowadays?



#57 Silverstone96

Silverstone96
  • Member

  • 1,191 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 21 October 2024 - 09:04

Working at Knockhill I think

#58 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,682 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 28 October 2024 - 19:18

Excelr8 confirms a rebranding to new title sponsor Vertu, and the continuation of Toms Ingram and Chilton in two of its seats.

#59 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 33,723 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 October 2024 - 20:57

It appears to be more of a Rothmans/Winfield thing than a new sponsor as such.



Advertisement

#60 WonderWoman61

WonderWoman61
  • Member

  • 2,038 posts
  • Joined: December 21

Posted 29 October 2024 - 11:24

Hope the green is integrated better before Media Day.

#61 Silverstone96

Silverstone96
  • Member

  • 1,191 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 29 October 2024 - 12:17

Yes certainly an interesting livery, at least it will stand out!

No news on Zelos coming back though.

#62 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 51,612 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 October 2024 - 13:29

Anyone got any links to this news?

#63 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,682 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 29 October 2024 - 13:40

PayasYouRace, on 29 Oct 2024 - 13:29, said:

Anyone got any links to this news?

 

https://btcc.net/tea...25-btcc-season/



#64 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 51,612 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 October 2024 - 14:44

Gives me Sasol Jordan vibes.

#65 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 33,723 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 31 October 2024 - 13:45

Some bombshell news: hybrid is being dropped for 2025. 100% sustainable fuel will be introduced to maintain green credentials, and turbo boost will become the new ballast/hybrid performance differentiator.

 

This seems odd. They finally perfected the hybrid formula this year. They refer to the last three years as the "hybrid era" but three years is not an era. This doesn't sound like a move planned in advance. Cosworth can't be happy about this.

 

There must be more to this than meets the eye. Presumably the issue is cost and a further decline in grid numbers. With teams running 4+ cars, a team pulling out has become a larger problem.

 

I suppose the good news is that cars will become 55kg lighter, which should make the cars more interesting to watch. But surely there's no way the initial plan was to run hybrids for only three years.



#66 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 51,612 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 31 October 2024 - 13:50

That really is a bombshell.

However, while hybrids have their advantages, there is an environmental impact in manufacturing batteries so sustainable fuel and lighter cars are a path I fully support. Less complex cars should reduce costs too. The grid was so thin at times last year.

#67 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 33,723 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 31 October 2024 - 14:02

The grid would absolutely be too small if we lost two more cars. I can only guess they've conceded that the pandemic and geopolitics-induced cost rises that came as hybrid development was already well underway was more of a problem than the "a smaller grid is no problem" rhetoric suggested.



#68 Silverstone96

Silverstone96
  • Member

  • 1,191 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 31 October 2024 - 14:48

Big news, not sure what to make of it other than Gow possibly being proactive to prevent any more teams going under.

Fully support lighter cars and hope this turbo boost idea works at increasing the power as it still feels like these cars are a bit underpowered relative to the grip they have.

Main thing is it preserves a healthy grid.

Edited by Silverstone96, 31 October 2024 - 14:50.


#69 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 51,612 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 31 October 2024 - 15:17

I also don’t think that the all electric goal set by most governments is realistic. I fully expect them to go back on that and focus on sustainable fuel and allow ICE production again.

#70 F1matt

F1matt
  • Member

  • 3,963 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 31 October 2024 - 16:08

This is big news, and a very quick turnaround for the teams and technical partners. I haven’t heard any team owners or driver speak publicly about the hybrid system or the cost issue but I am guessing things have been going on behind the scenes for some time now and TOCA have reacted. I can’t recall any retirements because of hybrid issues or if teams need extra technical staff at the track to deal with the systems.



#71 WonderWoman61

WonderWoman61
  • Member

  • 2,038 posts
  • Joined: December 21

Posted 31 October 2024 - 16:20

So, Hybrid Power in the BTCC, success or failure?

#72 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 33,723 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 31 October 2024 - 17:42

On the racing, a failure for two years, then a success in year three. And it probably would have continued to be a success based on 2024.



#73 chdphd

chdphd
  • Member

  • 3,093 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 31 October 2024 - 18:04

Shame about the hybrid. I liked it. I didn't find it very easy to follow, but it was a much better approach than success ballast.



#74 WonderWoman61

WonderWoman61
  • Member

  • 2,038 posts
  • Joined: December 21

Posted 31 October 2024 - 22:01

Considering the teams that got priced out of the series due to the costs of the hybrid....

#75 ArchieTech

ArchieTech
  • Member

  • 4,371 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 31 October 2024 - 22:28

The announcement article on the BTCC site:

 

https://btcc.net/btc...hybrid-departs/

 

Interesting too that the real time information on boost deployment won't be given through the timing system any more, presumably to avoid the defending car immediately being told to use it simultaneously to defend.



#76 F1Frog

F1Frog
  • Member

  • 949 posts
  • Joined: August 21

Posted 01 November 2024 - 01:17

I would say a failure. The racing was still exciting in 2022-2024 but in spite of the hybrid, which was only a negative.

#77 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 27,063 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 01 November 2024 - 09:38

The hybrid system has proved to be a far better means of handicapping than the previous added success ballast system.  So not a failure.  Replacing it with a turbo boost system will work but it will not be any better.



#78 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 51,612 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 01 November 2024 - 09:44

Neutral I guess. Neither a failure or a success. It was just there.

#79 Silverstone96

Silverstone96
  • Member

  • 1,191 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 01 November 2024 - 09:53

Would agree it was a far better way at handicapping than ballast.

Question is, do we still need handicapping really? It’s close enough at the front that I don’t think we do.

Race 3 reverse grid provides enough jeopardy as it is.

Advertisement

#80 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 27,063 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 01 November 2024 - 10:00

Silverstone96, on 01 Nov 2024 - 09:53, said:

Question is, do we still need handicapping really? It’s close enough at the front that I don’t think we do.

Race 3 reverse grid provides enough jeopardy as it is.

If you get rid of ALL the handicapping, it would be a BMW walk-over as the RWD car is far superior as a racing machine to any of the FWDs.  They are therefore handicapped by extra weight.  Then there are differing boost levels for different models already to equalise performance. That is BOP stuff to equalise the cars.

 

The ballast/hybrid/boost thing is aimed at equalising the drivers to provide closer racing, and it has worked quite well over the years.  



#81 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 51,612 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 01 November 2024 - 10:03

These threads were full of complaints a couple of seasons ago that there wasn’t enough handicapping to keep the racing exciting. I never thought it got that bad though.

I think the use of a temporary boost, being hybrid or just turbo, is far superior to success ballast.

#82 Peat

Peat
  • Member

  • 9,371 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 01 November 2024 - 10:05

F1matt, on 31 Oct 2024 - 16:08, said:

This is big news, and a very quick turnaround for the teams and technical partners. I haven’t heard any team owners or driver speak publicly about the hybrid system or the cost issue but I am guessing things have been going on behind the scenes for some time now and TOCA have reacted. I can’t recall any retirements because of hybrid issues or if teams need extra technical staff at the track to deal with the systems.

 

I seem to recall alot of grumbles at the beginning which all magically disappeared at the same time. I assumed Gow had something to do with that.

I've not really followed BTCC in this 'era' but it struck me as a bit of a waste of money and an over complification. People watch TC for the door banging, not the technology. 



#83 F1matt

F1matt
  • Member

  • 3,963 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 01 November 2024 - 10:19

WonderWoman61, on 31 Oct 2024 - 16:20, said:

So, Hybrid Power in the BTCC, success or failure?

 

 

 

I don't think it affected the series that much, drivers didn't have to adapt to much and the same drivers were still at the sharp end of the grid and the right man won the tile each season. Maybe that is the issue, maybe there wasn't enough change to really notice, if TOCA had gone for a smaller engine such as a 1.0 turbo which isn't uncommon now in road cars and combined that with a hybrid unit with the reduction in weight it might have made a visible difference without lap times coming down to much. I do think bio fuel is more in line with BTCC fans thinking though, so a good move IMO. 

 

 

 

Peat, on 01 Nov 2024 - 10:05, said:

I seem to recall alot of grumbles at the beginning which all magically disappeared at the same time. I assumed Gow had something to do with that.

I've not really followed BTCC in this 'era' but it struck me as a bit of a waste of money and an over complification. People watch TC for the door banging, not the technology. 

 

 

Alan Gow is very good at this, he definitely operates to the book of Bernie.  If it keeps the teams happy and helps keep the grid healthy it is a good choice. 



#84 F1Frog

F1Frog
  • Member

  • 949 posts
  • Joined: August 21

Posted 04 November 2024 - 23:34

I realised that Brazil 2024 in F1 has a lot of similarities to Silverstone race two in 2023. There, Jake Hill had just closed the gap and was on pole again, ready to take a huge chunk out of Sutton’s championship lead and give himself a great chance going into the final round, with Sutton at the back of the grid. Instead, Hill was unlucky with the engine problem, and Sutton drove the race of his life to win from 23rd on the grid, and end Hill’s title challenge once and for all.

#85 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 51,612 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 05 November 2024 - 07:17

F1Frog, on 04 Nov 2024 - 23:34, said:

I realised that Brazil 2024 in F1 has a lot of similarities to Silverstone race two in 2023. There, Jake Hill had just closed the gap and was on pole again, ready to take a huge chunk out of Sutton’s championship lead and give himself a great chance going into the final round, with Sutton at the back of the grid. Instead, Hill was unlucky with the engine problem, and Sutton drove the race of his life to win from 23rd on the grid, and end Hill’s title challenge once and for all.

Hopefully that’s a good omen for Lando for next year then.



#86 andysaint

andysaint
  • Member

  • 809 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 05 November 2024 - 07:50

Pleased to see hybrid go. Reduce costs is good. Reduce weight in the cars is good. It look like at times this season that the cars were too heavy

#87 Silverstone96

Silverstone96
  • Member

  • 1,191 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 05 November 2024 - 08:44

F1Frog, on 04 Nov 2024 - 23:34, said:

I realised that Brazil 2024 in F1 has a lot of similarities to Silverstone race two in 2023. There, Jake Hill had just closed the gap and was on pole again, ready to take a huge chunk out of Sutton’s championship lead and give himself a great chance going into the final round, with Sutton at the back of the grid. Instead, Hill was unlucky with the engine problem, and Sutton drove the race of his life to win from 23rd on the grid, and end Hill’s title challenge once and for all.


Actually all the more as Ash’s drive was in the dry, one of the best I have seen in person.

#88 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,682 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 06 November 2024 - 10:15

Jake Hill confirmed to continue with WSR.  No surprise there, but always a relief when a reigning champion is able to defend their crown.



#89 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,682 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 06 November 2024 - 14:45

More details: WSR are keen to return to four entries, and perhaps expand to five.  Additional entries could be made for Aiden Moffat and Andrew Watson, who have sponsor and driver management connections with the team.



#90 Silverstone96

Silverstone96
  • Member

  • 1,191 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 07 November 2024 - 09:08

Almost unnoticed but in the various changes here the engine freeze is an interesting if unsurprising one, no more development but wonder if they may be looking at something more adventurous for 2027 now the sustainable fuels are a thing.

https://btcc.net/btc...er-rule-tweaks/

Would love to see normally aspirated engines back although it’s unlikely!

#91 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 27,063 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 07 November 2024 - 09:31

Small turbocharged engines are now the norm.  Are there any n/a engined cars on the market at all other than top-line sports and GT machinery?



#92 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 51,612 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 07 November 2024 - 09:48

Lexus use naturally aspirated engines.

#93 Frood

Frood
  • Member

  • 11,156 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 07 November 2024 - 10:16

The Corolla is a car on the current grid that has an N/A option. Some small cars still have small N/As such as the Hyundai i10. Mazda still use larger displacement N/A engines as well.

#94 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 27,063 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 07 November 2024 - 10:23

Yes, there are a few exceptions - my own Clio hybrid has a n/a engine unfortunately,   But turbos are the norm these days



#95 Silverstone96

Silverstone96
  • Member

  • 1,191 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 07 November 2024 - 10:53

NA engines just sound better but if the turbos have to stay I hope they can do something to make them sound better than the current sack of bees we have currently!

#96 F1Frog

F1Frog
  • Member

  • 949 posts
  • Joined: August 21

Posted 14 November 2024 - 18:16

Andrew Watson has departed Speedworks, with Ronan Pearson heavily rumoured to replace him. I can't recall many drivers with such a disparity in performance between wet and dry than Watson, and I hope he returns to the grid. There have been rumours he could join Jake Hill at the MB side of WSR, with Aiden Moffat on the works side alongside Turkington.



#97 Silverstone96

Silverstone96
  • Member

  • 1,191 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 14 November 2024 - 22:30

The potential showed when he was in the PMR Vauxhall but for whatever reason it never really happened for him at Toyota.

#98 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 27,063 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 15 November 2024 - 17:22

Watson and Huff were both at the wrong Toyota team.  Gazoo Racing seemed to be about as capable as the Toyota F1 teams of fond memory.  Whereas the other Toyota team could win races.



#99 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,682 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 20 November 2024 - 16:29

We have a new team, Vortx Racing, planning to compete in 2025: https://www.vortx.racing/.

Rumours suggest that they will run the ex-Restart Cupras for Scott Sumpton and Nic Hamilton. This would also mean that Restart will change cars.

Advertisement

#100 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 27,063 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 20 November 2024 - 17:18

Any indication who Vortx are?  The website is strong on rhetoric and trying to encourage sponsors but is there any track record for this crew?