7805 replies to this topic

[AlexPrime]

Charlie showed that he is indeed a tough teammate, although the gap to Ham was not that big. The car, sadly, seems mediocre and the team made very poor decisions.

[Bliman]

Eyeshield, on 16 Mar 2025 - 10:45, said:

Very pedestrian like from Hamilton, almost seemed a little too relaxed. Possibly lacking confidence in the car? Also how is he still learning about the different modes and buttons on the steering wheel? Very amateurish.

pedestrian like? He was stuck behind Albon. His pace looked fine and similar to Leclerc.And he didn't put a foot wrong where every top driver made mistakes. This was a good race from him.

[Bliman]

w1Y, on 16 Mar 2025 - 11:13, said:

So if Lewis had pitted at the same lap as Max would that have put him in contention for a podium.

Seems like the team was floundering a bit.

I noticed that the the car was so slow on that last corner too. Noticed it in qualy and today.

Bit of work to do but only one race.

Yeah imo he would have been at the podium but they messed up.

[garoidb]

sofarapartguy, on 16 Mar 2025 - 11:18, said:

Something tells me Ham is not gonna win a race anymore.. 

 

Ferrari have won races in the previous three seasons. That's no guarantee they will win this year or next but things change within seasons and its quite unlikely they will fail to win some races IMO.

 

For Lewis not to win a race during his tenure at Ferrari would be a shame, though. It would take the sparkle off the whole experience. I don't think we will need to wait that long for it, though.

[brucewayne]

https://autoracer.it...za-enigma-sf-25

They don’t seem to have a solution in hand. Classic Ferrari.

Edited by brucewayne, 16 March 2025 - 11:43.

[Bendo]

Is everything on that site fact?

[brucewayne]

Bendo, on 16 Mar 2025 - 11:45, said:

Is everything on that site fact?

Duchessa is the best source, I would say.

[Raikkinen]

Tbf Hamilton and his race engineer seem to be a mismatch.
Lewis sounded like he was annoyed, but holding himself because not wanting to stir up the young relationship.

Edit, typo's

Edited by Raikkinen, 16 March 2025 - 11:51.

[sofarapartguy]

Raikkinen, on 16 Mar 2025 - 11:50, said:

Tbf Hamilton and his race engineer seem to be a mismatch.
Lewis sounded like he was annoyed, but holding himself because not wanting to stirr up the young relationship.

 

I never liked that RE to be honest. He did terrible job in the past as well but Carlos was just overruling ridiculous pit wall decisions most of the time to save the day.  

 

Ham is in for a hard time unfortunately. 

Edited by sofarapartguy, 16 March 2025 - 11:54.

[Raikkinen]

sofarapartguy, on 16 Mar 2025 - 11:53, said:

I never liked that RE to be honest. He did terrible job in the past as well but Carlos was just overruling ridiculous pit wall decisions most of the time to save the day.

Ham is in for a hard time unfortunately.

Agree!

[akshay380]

First post in a Ferrari thread. 😅😅

I watched the main feed and LH onboard simultaneously for the entire race. That means the radio comms too. My observations.
1. They should be building up the chemistry pretty fast. I’m sure it’ll happen or RE will change.
2. LH drove well considering it’s his first race. Snap oversteer in so many instances but he was able to keep it on track.
3. When VES pitted, Ferrari pit wall clearly had enough time to decide to pit Lewis or not.
In one race, LH and Ferrari fans have united!

In general, Lewis main job at the team is to set the process right and for sure he has the means to get them done.

Onwards and upwards!

[vlado]

Raest, on 16 Mar 2025 - 09:50, said:

Yes but we couldn't have that at Ferrari as it would upset all those (not so) great people that have been producing (nowhere near) excellent cars for so long. RB seem to go well this year, Fred might poach a few more engineers from them. I

It really is an absolute technical/engineering defeat, but no one wants to admit it.

In the past 15 years they’ve had

Alonso
Vettel
Hamilton
Leclerc

All drivers capable of winning titles, so it’s 100% NOT a driver issue.

Some argue that they have the engineering depth and talent but it’s a management issue, so I wonder how long it will take to kick the current boss out, but that’s obviously not the problem.

They have flashes of brilliance, but if you average out the cars that have come out of the factory in the last 16 years you will get “3rd force” at best.

What gets me the most is not only that they can’t produce the fastest car, but they can’t even match whatever the English teams conjur up year after year.


No one wants to admit this of course..

[Raest]

brucewayne, on 16 Mar 2025 - 11:40, said:

https://autoracer.it...za-enigma-sf-25

They don’t seem to have a solution in hand. Classic Ferrari.

This is why I am really annoyed and bitchey. With the single exception of F1-75, which was flawed and not the optimal long-term solution but worked in that year, every time they go for a new concept they muck it up.

There will always be some design flaw, somewhere, that they will have missed and either they'll spend 3/4 of the year before they manage to fix it (whilst everyone else is upgrading their cars) or fail to do so, wrting the year off. 

Usually the problem is then sorted for the next season and the car is decent but the other teams have, in the meantime, moved the goalposts further. So, we'll get a few wins, maybe come somewhat close to either championship if the others stumble

(like last year) and ultimately fail, only less spectacularly. 

I won't be surprised if this year the issue is the front suspension, not because it's pullrod, but because they probably miscalculated the effect it would have either on the COG of the car or the interaction with the floor. 

And I was thinking exactly the same point that Duchessa made at the end of his article. If it's not an easy fix, then they will have to write-off the year early, to focus on another new concept which they'll also, probably muck up. 

It's never ending.

McLaren went through the same phase but they got at the other end in the end. Ferrari's continuing yo-yoing between bad/mediocre and "close but no cigar" seasons is excruciating. 

 

Edit: Regarding Adami: 

He's probably the best race engineer the team had since Stella left (and that may say something) so quit bitching about him cause it'll only get worse. 

Edited by Raest, 16 March 2025 - 12:15.

[garoidb]

vlado, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:07, said:

It really is an absolute technical/engineering defeat, but no one wants to admit it.

In the past 15 years they’ve had

Alonso
Vettel
Hamilton
Leclerc

All drivers capable of winning titles, so it’s 100% NOT a driver issue.

Some argue that they have the engineering depth and talent but it’s a management issue, so I wonder how long it will take to kick the current boss out, but that’s obviously not the problem.

They have flashes of brilliance, but if you average out the cars that have come out of the factory in the last 16 years you will get “3rd force” at best.

What gets me the most is not only that they can’t produce the fastest car, but they can’t even match whatever the English teams conjur up year after year.


No one wants to admit this of course..

 

They have had ex-WDC Kimi as well, another big signing (twice). The thing is that there have been two dominant teams in 15 years and Ferrari have often been second to whichever one of them is winning. Only Alonso took the challenge for titles to Red Bull in 2010-2013 and only Vettel did to Mercedes from 2014 to 2020 or so. We could criticise Mercedes for the times they have been third or fourth best, times when they were being beaten by Ferrari, and also Red Bull the same. Ferrari are not and have not been a basket case and many people were optimistic for Lewis joining them until about a day and half ago!

Edited by garoidb, 16 March 2025 - 12:20.

[DeKnyff]

Bendo, on 16 Mar 2025 - 11:45, said:

Is everything on that site fact?

 

More than anything, they state the already known, very obvious things, but as the author has a (supposedly true) Italian name, some worship him as if he was a real Ferrari insider. Same thing happened with that "Turrini" guy in the past, a completely fake expert.

[vlado]

brucewayne, on 16 Mar 2025 - 11:40, said:

https://autoracer.it...za-enigma-sf-25

They don’t seem to have a solution in hand. Classic Ferrari.

He doesn’t usually jump to conclusions like that so there is either real panic inside the team or he is just a frustrated fan like the rest of us … I guess we will find out soon enough.

LEC saying that China doesn’t suit the car is just horrible tho… like, it’s a proper race track man :/

Edited by vlado, 16 March 2025 - 12:20.

[Raest]

garoidb, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:15, said:

They have had ex-WDC Kimi as well, another big signing (twice). The thing is that there have been two dominant teams in 15 years and Ferrari have often been second to whichever one of them is winning. Only Alonso took the challenge for titles to Red Bull in 2010-2013 and only Vettel did to Mercedes up from 2014 to 2020 or so. We could criticise Mercedes for the times they have been third or fourth best, times when they were being beaten by Ferrari, and also Red Bull the same. Ferrari are not and have not been a basket case and many people were optimistic for Lewis joining them until about a day and half ago!

Every team has good seasons and bad seasons. Ferrari's bad seasons are sligtly better than most but their best seasons always fall short. I'd rather they hit rock bottom like McLaren did then win something than always be no lower than 4th, no higher than 2nd. 

[lewislorenzo]

vlado, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:19, said:

LEC saying that China doesn’t suit the car is just horrible tho… like, it’s a proper race track man :/

The hype train has fully derailed then.

Maybe playing down expectations

[vlado]

garoidb, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:15, said:

They have had ex-WDC Kimi as well, another big signing (twice). The thing is that there have been two dominant teams in 15 years and Ferrari have often been second to whichever one of them is winning. Only Alonso took the challenge for titles to Red Bull in 2010-2013 and only Vettel did to Mercedes from 2014 to 2020 or so. We could criticise Mercedes for the times they have been third or fourth best, times when they were being beaten by Ferrari, and also Red Bull the same. Ferrari are not and have not been a basket case and many people were optimistic for Lewis joining them until about a day and half ago!

Right, maybe 3rd force is harsh, but one can also argue that the reason they’ve been able to compete for 2nd overall is all of the driver talent we listed, especially Alonso, what he did was quite special in my opinion.

[sourav1480]

sofarapartguy, on 16 Mar 2025 - 11:18, said:

Something tells me Ham is not gonna win a race anymore..

You must be an astrologer

[Raest]

lewislorenzo, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:23, said:

The hype train has fully derailed then.

Maybe playing down expectations

There wouldn't have been a hype train if it wasn't for Lewis. We (as in us Ferrari fans) are old hands at this, but his (and yours-i.e. his fans) enthousiasm was contagious. 

[vlado]

lewislorenzo, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:23, said:

The hype train has fully derailed then.

Maybe playing down expectations

You can’t say I didn’t keep your expectations in check.

It’s still a bit early, just wait for Suzuka, but LEC’s comments and Duchessa’s report are a bit extra concerning at this stage.

I feel bad for HAM fans and even felt bad for Hamilton yesterday because I think he genuinely wants to help the team. Maybe the extra pressure will help long run but.. I wouldn’t put too much faith in that.

[garoidb]

Raest, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:27, said:

There wouldn't have been a hype train if it wasn't for Lewis. We (as in us Ferrari fans) are old hands at this, but his (and yours-i.e. his fans) enthousiasm was contagious. 

 

I think the depression is a bit contagious too. All is not lost by any means. 

[George Costanza]

Raikkinen, on 16 Mar 2025 - 11:50, said:

Tbf Hamilton and his race engineer seem to be a mismatch.
Lewis sounded like he was annoyed, but holding himself because not wanting to stir up the young relationship.

Edit, typo's

Lewis really misses Peter Bonnington for sure.

[lewislorenzo]

vlado, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:27, said:

You can’t say I didn’t keep your expectations in check.

It’s still a bit early, just wait for Suzuka, but LEC’s comments and Duchessa’s report are a bit extra concerning at this stage.

I feel bad for HAM fans and even felt bad for Hamilton yesterday because I think he genuinely wants to help the team. Maybe the extra pressure will help long run but.. I wouldn’t put too much faith in that.

I just expected more I guess. Everything we were hearing was positive.

The possible ride height stuff is extremely jarring too. That is something you shouldn’t mess up IN YEAR 4 OF THE REGULATIONS

I feel for Charles too…especially as it seemed they turned the corner last year

[Raest]

garoidb, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:30, said:

I think the depression is a bit contagious too. All is not lost by any means. 

It's called "learning from the past" mate (and becoming depressed in the process). 

[George Costanza]

vlado, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:07, said:

It really is an absolute technical/engineering defeat, but no one wants to admit it.

In the past 15 years they’ve had

Alonso
Vettel
Hamilton
Leclerc

All drivers capable of winning titles, so it’s 100% NOT a driver issue.

Some argue that they have the engineering depth and talent but it’s a management issue, so I wonder how long it will take to kick the current boss out, but that’s obviously not the problem.

They have flashes of brilliance, but if you average out the cars that have come out of the factory in the last 16 years you will get “3rd force” at best.

What gets me the most is not only that they can’t produce the fastest car, but they can’t even match whatever the English teams conjur up year after year.


No one wants to admit this of course..

If you got back further, Alain Prost couldn't do it either. Only Michael has done it multiple times.

IMHO the problem isn't the drivers, they had plenty of great drivers, the technical experience is lacking. Remember in '96, they got Michael but even he had some issues with the car in the very beginning of '96. Of course IMHO, I don't believe any of those drivers are as good as Michael was at his peak of his career, but that's a different topic to talk about, but Ferrari needs another Ross Brawn to change this around.

Edited by George Costanza, 16 March 2025 - 12:39.

[Astandahl]

Seeing Hamilton this bad in the wet was borderline depressing.

 

Not his fault though, there isn't much you can do with a slow car these days. 1.5s slower than McL.

 

Leclerc has been clowned for being slow in the wet when it is absolutely no true. Just drove absolutely awful cars and we are seeing the same **** happening with Lewis now (a driver who has won 18 races affected by rain).

Edited by Astandahl, 16 March 2025 - 12:49.

[Disgrace]

On the radio thing, Sainz and Leclerc have been bickering with their Ferrari engineers for years.

[Victor]

To the Hamilton fans joining the Ferrari thread for the first time, I say: don’t worry, this is just how things work around here. Better races will come.

[Mc_Silver]

https://youtu.be/SuyI5vyd8Ns

[vlado]

Astandahl, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:43, said:

Seeing Hamilton this bad in the wet was borderline depressing.

Not his fault though, there isn't much you can do with a slow car these days. 1.5s slower than McL.

Leclerc has been clowned for being slow in the wet when it is absolutely no true. Just drove absolutely awful cars and we are seeing the same **** happening with Lewis now (a driver who has won 18 races affected by rain).

Yea I guess I am too harsh on LEC in mixed conditions considering he’s probably never driven a car capable of winning on a wet track but you how they say “the car doesn’t matter in the rain”


Also, you will get people to tell how Hamilton is past his peak so his performance in the rain currently can’t be compared to his 18 previous wins on a wet track

[Bliman]

Astandahl, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:43, said:

Seeing Hamilton this bad in the wet was borderline depressing.

Not his fault though, there isn't much you can do with a slow car these days. 1.5s slower than McL.

Leclerc has been clowned for being slow in the wet when it is absolutely no true. Just drove absolutely awful cars and we are seeing the same **** happening with Lewis now (a driver who has won 18 races affected by rain).

Why do you say he was bad in the wet? Almost every top driver made big mistakes. While Hamilton catapulted to the front and didn't put a foot wrong. Meanwhile Leclerc made a mistake.

[vlado]

Victor, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:51, said:

To the Hamilton fans joining the Ferrari thread for the first time, I say: don’t worry, this is just how things work around here. Better races will come.

Better races will 100% come along, it will be incredible if they didn’t considering the starting point here, but a world title?

I don’t think most Hamilton fans are here for the occasional good race…

[Raest]

George Costanza, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:39, said:

If you got back further, Alain Prost couldn't do it either. Only Michael has done it multiple times.

IMHO the problem isn't the drivers, they had plenty of great drivers, the technical experience is lacking. Remember in '96, they got Michael but even he had some issues with the car in the very beginning of '96. Of course IMHO, I don't believe any of those drivers are as good as Michael was at his peak of his career, but that's a different topic to talk about, but Ferrari needs another Ross Brawn to change this around.

I used to think that (and still think it's more likely than not) but then you look at what McLaren did and it may be management related. Prodromou has been chief aero guy at McLaren since 2014 and despite having the reputation of an excellent aerodynamicist most of the cars he signed off were bad. Then Brown restructured the top management people, promoted Stella to TP and got Marshall (who AFAIK was the only heavy-hitter he got, Seidl and Keys were hyped but nothing special), invested heavily in infastructure and here they are. 

[Astandahl]

Bliman, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:54, said:

Why do you say he was bad in the wet? Almost every top driver made big mistakes. While Hamilton catapulted to the front and didn't put a foot wrong. Meanwhile Leclerc made a mistake.

He was slow.

Edited by Astandahl, 16 March 2025 - 12:58.

[George Costanza]

Raest, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:57, said:

I used to think that (and still think it's more likely than not) but then you look at what McLaren did and it may be management related. Prodromou has been chief aero guy at McLaren since 2014 and despite having the reputation of an excellent aerodynamicist most of the cars he signed off were bad. Then Brown restructured the top management people, promoted Stella to TP and got Marshall (who AFAIK was the only heavy-hitter he got, Seidl and Keys were hyped but nothing special), invested heavily in infastructure and here they are.

I think it's also management related too. It is a combination of factors of why Ferrari are struggling. I don't know how they will fix it. I personally think they should have made Ross Brawn the Team Principal after he left Mercedes, but it didn't happen.

I feel bad for Charles because he's been there a long time now.

Edited by George Costanza, 16 March 2025 - 13:02.

[Bendo]

Astandahl, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:57, said:

He was slow.

And yet when it got really wet he was one of the few that didn't make a mistake. Different ending if he had followed Max into the pits.

[vlado]

Just to be clear my rant about the them not being able to compete on the engineering front is strictly related to the aerodynamic / chassis side , the engine department is top tier.

[GiorgioF1]

Seems like the relationship between Lewis and his race engineer is a match made in hell.

 

But this was predictable.

[Astandahl]

Bendo, on 16 Mar 2025 - 13:01, said:

And yet when it got really wet he was one of the few that didn't make a mistake. Different ending if he had followed Max into the pits.

I know. I'm not saying Lewis is bad.

It's due to the car that is terrible.

[ferrarista]

https://x.com/Cl16__...181851248525700

Here it’s Charles, then we have Lewis who, if given the correct info, would have stopped as well.

The team letting down its jewels of drivers once again.

[Topsu]

"It's gonna get heavier later, stay out" Unless they were gambling for a red flag, I don't know what was the expectation.

Edited by Topsu, 16 March 2025 - 13:14.

[MortenF1]

I don’t know how people can say the pace was not there on inters, ‘cause the way he was glued to Albon despite being as quick as the telehandlers on the straight… I think he would’ve been a lot quicker had he had free air.
Good pace on slicks.

About Adami, yes he sounds about as energetic and inspiring as dying man talking through a voice box, but if his skills in race car engineering is top notch, that’s not important.
(…but I don’t think I would mind if Jock Clear stepped in. I think Hamilton likes to feel at least some form of engagement and energy from his engineer.)

[vlado]

ferrarista, on 16 Mar 2025 - 13:05, said:

https://x.com/Cl16__...181851248525700

Here it’s Charles, then we have Lewis who, if given the correct info, would have stopped as well.

The team letting down its jewels of drivers once again.

Sad state of affairs.

Did he suggest splitting the strategy at some point as well?

Edited by vlado, 16 March 2025 - 13:15.

[renzmann]

Eyeshield, on 16 Mar 2025 - 10:45, said:

Very pedestrian like from Hamilton, almost seemed a little too relaxed. Possibly lacking confidence in the car? Also how is he still learning about the different modes and buttons on the steering wheel? Very amateurish.

Scrolling through the thread, I was about to post this. Glad you already did!

 

It's baffling the critique the race engineer gets from some of the posters here - including remarks about his Italian accent (how dare he, at an Italian team?) - while the guy has to deal with the new star driver who hasn't bothered learning the freaking steering wheel    The poor guy only wanted his driver to maximize the car's potential, yet was told to leave him alone. I mean...

 

And yes, strategy was bad, but Hamilton's race was quite horrible. I saw him being caught napping a couple of times, and be overtaken at places where it shouldn't be allowed to happen. Including by his team-mate. If I were Hamilton, I wouldn't moan about cars that are difficult to handle until China.

[FLB]

Topsu, on 16 Mar 2025 - 13:13, said:

"It's gonna get heavier later, stay out" Unless they were gambling for a red flag, I don't know what was the expectation.

Vasseur says they thought that particular shower was going to be shorter (in time) that it turned out: CANAL+ F1 ®: ""On a pris les mauvais choix" Entame de saison difficile pour Ferrari : Charles Leclerc est 8e, Lewis Hamilton 10e ❌ #AustralianGP #F1" — Bluesky (video en francais)

[ferrarista]

vlado, on 16 Mar 2025 - 13:02, said:

Just to be clear my rant about the them not being able to compete on the engineering front is strictly related to the aerodynamic / chassis side , the engine department is top tier.

No problem, We are all annoyed by this team, once again over promising and under delivering, also you were one of the few to have the feet firmly on the ground and most of your posts are sensible and rarely completely out of the reality.

Regarding what you say, I generally have had the opinion that the talent is there, but it is not channelled the way it should to make a difference.
Take Mclaren, it took to change a few pieces of the puzzle and take away any blame culture, look where they are now, just for comparison two years ago they were on the last row.

At this point it is a matter (and always has been, IMO) of giving too low performance targets.
Take this last Duchessa article, one source inside the team says that China is less suited to the car than Melbourne.

FFS, you MUST design the car to be quick at Suzuka, SHanghai, Barcelona, not at the Monaco’s, the Baku’s; F1 history tells how it must be designed and they still persist in circumventing the issue as if it solves by itself with God’s help.
****, Carlos has asked them in any possible language that they had to improve in the long corners, now we are in 2025, they tell the world that they want to finally win and now, first race, they say the car doesn’t like a China layout?

I absolutely think the talent is there, Serra will have just to monitor the various departments and what they are working on, he has so much experience of how a F1 winning car is built, for this reason I think we are not lost at sea yet.

Edited by ferrarista, 16 March 2025 - 13:20.

[Bliman]

Astandahl, on 16 Mar 2025 - 12:57, said:

He was slow.

Why do you say he was slow? He was stuck behind Albon for a good portion of the race and in the rain he catapulted to the front without faults. How could you assess his real pace?

[ferrarista]

Astandahl, on 16 Mar 2025 - 13:04, said:

I know. I'm not saying Lewis is bad.
It's due to the car that is terrible.

How people who pretend to talk and write about F1 cannot (or don’t want?) understand that the car is the most important factor in the wet as well, is beyond me.