75 replies to this topic

[loki]

ESPN reportedly will not renew.  Looks to be between NBC and Netflix.  Similar to Sky a Netflix deal will likely bring more money but at the expense of number of viewers.

https://sports.yahoo...-134636618.html

 

 

Also a piece in the Times that's glowing but minimized the fact F1 is still a pimple on a dog’s butt in terms of ratings.  It also mentions Amazon potentially in the mix.

 

https://www.nytimes....userId=12505127

[LolaB0860]

Whoever it is, I wish they bring the in-house commentary team back. There used to be so many English language alternatives for F1 10-20 years ago, in US and UK and Australia and Asia, but now everyone just uses either the stock Sky comms feed or stock F1 TV comms feed and it's very stale.

[PitViperRacing]

God I hope Netflix get it so I don't have to watch Sky.

[917k]

*shrug*

 

I like Brundle and Crofty.

[Ali_G]

Whoever it is, I wish they bring the in-house commentary team back. There used to be so many English language alternatives for F1 10-20 years ago, in US and UK and Australia and Asia, but now everyone just uses either the stock Sky comms feed or stock F1 TV comms feed and it's very stale.

Australia has used UK commentary for 30 years I thought?


Weirdly Ireland always had separate comms until Sky bought the Irish rights.

[Ali_G]

The US viewing numbers from ESPN are staggeringly low, at best 1 million viewers even after the success of the Netflix series, as individual stand-alone races the 3 currently in the US are presumably doing well, but F1 have clearly not broken into the US market, Cadillac's entry will or at least very much should make a dent upwards, but based on numbers and driver lineup as we think it can not imagine anything especially noteworthy.

[old man yelling at the sky]
So dragging out my usual complaint, host the races in countries where F1 is liked, loved and appreciated.
[/old man yelling at the sky]

How does F1 compare to NASCAR, Indycar and MotoGP for American viewership numbers?

[jonpollak]

How does F1 compare to NASCAR, Indycar and MotoGP for American viewership numbers?

Why are you asking him?… .


NASCAR still leads the TV numbers. Although the Indy 500 is the biggest single event nationally. F1 gets about the same numbers as Indycar on a Network broadcast. Moto GP is on Tru-Tv and a streaming service called B/R add on.. The problem with F1 numbers is the time of day it is aired live. (Except the 3 US races which are almost double the rest)

Our OP would have the best info on all that.
Jp

[pup]

The US viewing numbers from ESPN are staggeringly low, at best 1 million viewers even after the success of the Netflix series, as individual stand-alone races the 3 currently in the US are presumably doing well, but F1 have clearly not broken into the US market, Cadillac's entry will or at least very much should make a dent upwards, but based on numbers and driver lineup as we think it can not imagine anything especially noteworthy.

[old man yelling at the sky]
So dragging out my usual complaint, host the races in countries where F1 is liked, loved and appreciated.
[/old man yelling at the sky]

1m+ average audience isn’t anything to sneeze at, especially considering that it was half that when espn signed up. I believe that UK viewership is in the 1.5-2 million, so honestly not that far off from the sports biggest market. Plus Austin has become one of the top attended races, and attendance for all three US races is over a million. So, the fans are here and the market is growing - I just think that espn splitting their coverage over three networks and a separate streaming service is confusing to most viewers and keeps casual viewers from converting to season-long viewers. And for those season-long viewers, I’d be curious how many US viewers are siphoned off by F1TV vs other countries. I’d suspect that the venn diagram of f1 fans and cable cutters in the US is a near circle. Anecdotally, I watch every race but I’ve never watched a single session on espn. The same would be true for me if they went to NBC; but if Netflix took over, I’d likely drop the app subscription and I don’t think I’d be alone in that.

[Rjpscr]

I'm sad because if Netflix or Amazon get's it for exclusive rights for streaming, that means probably goodbye F1TV 

[FLB]

I'm sad because if Netflix or Amazon get's it for exclusive rights for streaming, that means probably goodbye F1TV 

That would be a likely scenario, IMHO.

[Arska]

The US viewing numbers from ESPN are staggeringly low, at best 1 million viewers even after the success of the Netflix series, as individual stand-alone races the 3 currently in the US are presumably doing well, but F1 have clearly not broken into the US market, Cadillac's entry will or at least very much should make a dent upwards, but based on numbers and driver lineup as we think it can not imagine anything especially noteworthy.

 

 

Haas in F1 didn't get USA excited. Cadillac won't do that either unless they're successful.

[404KF2]

Even then, nah....

 

There's too many furriners in that thar series.

 

Don't need tariffs to stop it from being popular there.

[FLB]

One thing that needs to be remembered is *who* owns ESPN (i.e. Disney). They can make money from F1 from other ways beside broadcast. For instance, Disney has a close relationship with General Motors (Cadillac), so they could conceivably have a partnership with F1 in one of their parks : BREAKING: Test Track at EPCOT Will Revert to General Motors Sponsorship - WDW News Today

 

There is already a Cadillac Lounge on the Disney Wonder cruise ship (although F1 has a partnership with MSC Cuises) : disneycruise.disney.go.com/onboard-activities/cadillac-lounge/?

[loki]

For a minute there I thought you were talking about the Mickyard.  Having a parking lot oval was so on brand for the IRL.

[FLB]

For a minute there I thought you were talking about the Mickyard.  Having a parking lot oval was so on brand for the IRL.

Uhh... No 

 

 

More about the fact that Mary Barra sits on Disney's board 

Edited by FLB, 16 February 2025 - 01:33.

[loki]

Why are you asking him?… .


NASCAR still leads the TV numbers. Although the Indy 500 is the biggest single event nationally. F1 gets about the same numbers as Indycar on a Network broadcast. Moto GP is on Tru-Tv and a streaming service called B/R add on.. The problem with F1 numbers is the time of day it is aired live. (Except the 3 US races which are almost double the rest)

Our OP would have the best info on all that.
Jp

You pretty much summed it up.  Having them on at crack of arse o’clock doesn’t help.  Japan and Australia are a good time.  Miami did 3 mil.  Had a great slot.  Most non US are a shade more than a mil.   A few less.  FP and quali far fewer.  Most of the FP are stream only.  The 500 got 5.3mil average. It’s been good for around 5 mil or so with a few exceptions for about 10 years. 

 

I reckon F1 may have tossed out some base numbers and The Mouse passed.  They seemed gung ho after last season.  For them $90mil isn’t that much but these days everyone is pinching pennies even if you’re flush with cash.

[loki]

1m+ average audience isn’t anything to sneeze at, especially considering that it was half that when espn signed up. I believe that UK viewership is in the 1.5-2 million, so honestly not that far off from the sports biggest market. Plus Austin has become one of the top attended races, and attendance for all three US races is over a million. So, the fans are here and the market is growing - I just think that espn splitting their coverage over three networks and a separate streaming service is confusing to most viewers and keeps casual viewers from converting to season-long viewers. And for those season-long viewers, I’d be curious how many US viewers are siphoned off by F1TV vs other countries. I’d suspect that the venn diagram of f1 fans and cable cutters in the US is a near circle. Anecdotally, I watch every race but I’ve never watched a single session on espn. The same would be true for me if they went to NBC; but if Netflix took over, I’d likely drop the app subscription and I don’t think I’d be alone in that.

 

A mil for live sports on network is just above a rounding error.  Population of the UK 68 mil or so.  Population of the US almost 350 mil or so.

[Afterburner]

How does F1 compare to NASCAR, Indycar and MotoGP for American viewership numbers?

We were having this discussion in the IndyCar thread—about a million per race on average, but all of them get wrecked by NASCAR, which somehow manages to draw an average of 3 million viewers per race even when people are chasing it across multiple TV networks.

For context, as (I assume) loki says, racing is literally a rounding error in the US sports landscape. Headline NFL and college football games draw 10-20 million viewers per game. The Super Bowl last weekend was watched by 120 million viewers. Racing in general draws about as many viewers as FCS football games—the second-tier division of college football (beneath the ~130 schools in the first tier), which is basically football’s version of F3.

[F1 Mike]

Australia has used UK commentary for 30 years I thought?

Weirdly Ireland always had separate comms until Sky bought the Irish rights.

Just to add to this, although slightly irrelevant to the discussion in hand... Irish coverage took live channel 4 commentary for a while, even if channel 4 wasn't live themselves.

Hopefully the next rights holder in the US is a step forwards. ESPN is widely available as it is, but Netflix would probably reach whole new audiences. I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

[Ali_G]

Just to add to this, although slightly irrelevant to the discussion in hand... Irish coverage took live channel 4 commentary for a while, even if channel 4 wasn't live themselves.

Hopefully the next rights holder in the US is a step forwards. ESPN is widely available as it is, but Netflix would probably reach whole new audiences. I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

I’m thinking of RTE only. Setanta were taking C4 comms I assume?

[pup]

Population of the UK 68 mil or so. Population of the US almost 350 mil or so.

I thought you were giving reasons for F1 not to chase the US market.

[pup]

Speaking of race start times and how that limits the US market, I think the thing about switching F1 to a streaming service like Netflix in the US is that their customers don’t have the same intrinsic expectations as traditional media viewers for viewing events live. I think there’s a mindset shift that lowers the value of that and it’s easier for customers to say they’ll watch it on their own schedule and just avoid spoilers as best they can.

Anecdotal again, but my least favorite races have always been the ones in nearby time zones. The race is Sunday breakfast fare to me and it tics me off a bit when the race hasn’t been run by the time the bacon’s ready.

Edited by pup, 16 February 2025 - 17:00.

[Nemo1965]

Speaking of race start times and how that limits the US market, I think the thing about switching F1 to a streaming service like Netflix in the US is that their customers don’t have the same intrinsic expectations as traditional media viewers for viewing events live. I think there’s a mindset shift that lowers the value of that and it’s easier for customers to say they’ll watch it on their own schedule and just avoid spoilers as best they can.

Anecdotal again, but my least favorite races have always been the ones in nearby time zones. The race is Sunday breakfast fare to me and it tics me off a bit when the race hasn’t been run by the time the bacon’s ready.

 

I think you've got a point there, but here's a strange thing I noticed at least in the Netherlands in my neck of the woods: watching events live - or even watching programs together - has become much more a thing for younger audiences than for older viewers who choose their own time and place to watch either sport-events or programs. I was always surprised that my students were adamant of watching F1-races or soccer-matches live, and for special tv-programs (like Idols) organized watching parties the specific day it was broadcasted!

(Watching things in replay on their iPad or laptop they reserved for airplane flights or other moments they needed diversions).

 

So... I'm curious how this would play out in Europe. I have not done or read any research on different ways of viewing content in Europe vis-a-vis the US, so if anyone here is more enlightened, please enlighten me!

[TennisUK]

How does F1 compare to NASCAR, Indycar and MotoGP for American viewership numbers?

When I’ve looked it’s a bit more than Indycar these days, and a bit lower than NASCAR (which is a lot lower than it used to be. Slots in practical time zones are similar to NASCAR.

The demographic for F1 is pretty dreamy for advertisers (and media owners…) compared to either of those two series, though.

[Jim Thurman]

 

[old man yelling at the sky]

So dragging out my usual complaint, host the races in countries where F1 is liked, loved and appreciated.

[/old man yelling at the sky]

Like Azerbaijan and UAE? 

[loki]

Speaking of race start times and how that limits the US market, I think the thing about switching F1 to a streaming service like Netflix in the US is that their customers don’t have the same intrinsic expectations as traditional media viewers for viewing events live. I think there’s a mindset shift that lowers the value of that and it’s easier for customers to say they’ll watch it on their own schedule and just avoid spoilers as best they can.

Anecdotal again, but my least favorite races have always been the ones in nearby time zones. The race is Sunday breakfast fare to me and it tics me off a bit when the race hasn’t been run by the time the bacon’s ready.

The races have been available on a stream for years on NBC and ESPN.   Functionally the same as Netflix.  Streaming mentality is normal over here.  There is no Netflix v. “traditional media” segregation.  Everyone streams.  Old, young, rich, poor.  The Netflix play from F1’s position isn‘t increasing the base so much as it’s increasing the revenue.  Same as the Sky deal.

[loki]

When I’ve looked it’s a bit more than Indycar these days, and a bit lower than NASCAR (which is a lot lower than it used to be. Slots in practical time zones are similar to NASCAR.

The demographic for F1 is pretty dreamy for advertisers (and media owners…) compared to either of those two series, though.

Cup averages about 3 times the ratings of F1.  When something like Daytona isn’t postponed it’s 8-9 times.  It’s substantially larger.  About a third of the season is during NFL which is a complete ratings buzzkill.

[loki]

Like Azerbaijan and UAE? 

That depends.  Which Emirate?…  

[August]

We were having this discussion in the IndyCar thread—about a million per race on average, but all of them get wrecked by NASCAR, which somehow manages to draw an average of 3 million viewers per race even when people are chasing it across multiple TV networks.

For context, as (I assume) loki says, racing is literally a rounding error in the US sports landscape. Headline NFL and college football games draw 10-20 million viewers per game. The Super Bowl last weekend was watched by 120 million viewers. Racing in general draws about as many viewers as FCS football games—the second-tier division of college football (beneath the ~130 schools in the first tier), which is basically football’s version of F3.

At least some years ago F1 was very much on the level of NASCAR in the 18-49 demographics, at least when both were on cable. F1 got less boost from being in broadcast TV, maybe because it's so rare that its fans are going to get cable anyway whereas NASCAR has so many races on broadcast TV that you may be less inclined to get cable to see the rest of the races.

 

But in terms of overall viewership, NASCAR is way ahead. But it's quite different age demographics.

[Ali_G]

When I’ve looked it’s a bit more than Indycar these days, and a bit lower than NASCAR (which is a lot lower than it used to be. Slots in practical time zones are similar to NASCAR.

The demographic for F1 is pretty dreamy for advertisers (and media owners…) compared to either of those two series, though.

I find it amazing how many new fans F1 has found in the US the last few years. So many zoom calls I’ve been on where people have asked me if I watch F1 and if I watch Drive to Survive. Crazy the amount of exposure it’s given the series.

[r4mses]

F1 booming so hard in the USA that ESPN cant handle the demand? :shockedemoji:

[NCB619]

Whoever it is, I wish they bring the in-house commentary team back. There used to be so many English language alternatives for F1 10-20 years ago, in US and UK and Australia and Asia, but now everyone just uses either the stock Sky comms feed or stock F1 TV comms feed and it's very stale.

 

 

Australia has used UK commentary for 30 years I thought?


Weirdly Ireland always had separate comms until Sky bought the Irish rights.

Australia has used the UK comms for as long as I can remember (1994 onwards).

We've had locals throw to and from breaks (because I think back in the day, our breaks were like 30sec-1min shorter than in the UK, so needed some filler). But has always been Walker, Allen, Legard, Croft, Brundle, et al, for that 30 year period you mentioned. Not 100% sure how long before that, but thought the Murray was there beforehand too.

[AustinF1]

ESPN reportedly will not renew.  Looks to be between NBC and Netflix.  Similar to Sky a Netflix deal will likely bring more money but at the expense of number of viewers.

https://sports.yahoo...-134636618.html

 

 

Also a piece in the Times that's glowing but minimized the fact F1 is still a pimple on a dog’s butt in terms of ratings.  It also mentions Amazon potentially in the mix.

 

https://www.nytimes....userId=12505127

Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please NOT NBC.

[AustinF1]

*shrug*

 

I like Brundle and Crofty.

Yep, and I'll take them anytime over all the crap NBC would bring.

[jonpollak]

Fox is now bossing car racing.

👍
Jlp

[AustinF1]

I think you've got a point there, but here's a strange thing I noticed at least in the Netherlands in my neck of the woods: watching events live - or even watching programs together - has become much more a thing for younger audiences than for older viewers who choose their own time and place to watch either sport-events or programs. I was always surprised that my students were adamant of watching F1-races or soccer-matches live, and for special tv-programs (like Idols) organized watching parties the specific day it was broadcasted!

(Watching things in replay on their iPad or laptop they reserved for airplane flights or other moments they needed diversions).

 

So... I'm curious how this would play out in Europe. I have not done or read any research on different ways of viewing content in Europe vis-a-vis the US, so if anyone here is more enlightened, please enlighten me!

I've noticed the same with my boys (18 & 21). IMHO it's connected to their desire (addiction) to watch s/m reactions or react on s/m themselves in real time. I, on the other hand, couldn't care less if I watch live or delayed.

Edited by AustinF1, 18 February 2025 - 17:15.

[amerikalei]

Speaking of race start times and how that limits the US market, I think the thing about switching F1 to a streaming service like Netflix in the US is that their customers don’t have the same intrinsic expectations as traditional media viewers for viewing events live. I think there’s a mindset shift that lowers the value of that and it’s easier for customers to say they’ll watch it on their own schedule and just avoid spoilers as best they can.

Anecdotal again, but my least favorite races have always been the ones in nearby time zones. The race is Sunday breakfast fare to me and it tics me off a bit when the race hasn’t been run by the time the bacon’s ready.

You're not alone.  Ideally I like my F1 done by 10-11AM so I can get on with the weekend day chores, family responsibilities, etc. 

[pup]

Yep. ‘Breakfast with F1’ is a thing in the US and frankly should be a part of their advertising imo.

[Jim Thurman]

Yep. ‘Breakfast with F1’ is a thing in the US and frankly should be a part of their advertising imo.

On the West Coast, for the Pacific Time Zone, I always loved the Australian and Asian rounds. Dinner time to 10:30PM to 11:30PM start times.

[Mario5]

No idea.

 

 

How does F1 compare to NASCAR, Indycar and MotoGP for American viewership numbers?

For 2024, NASCAR averaged 2.9 million viewers per race, Indycar averaged 1 million viewers per race, F1 averaged 1.1 million viewers per race

[JacnGille]

You pretty much summed it up.  Having them on at crack of arse o’clock doesn’t help.

DVR like I do. 

[nissan_gtp]

DVR like I do. 

that’s why F1 TV is so great, watch live, or later, or start even if the race is half done 

[pdac]

that’s why F1 TV is so great, watch live, or later, or start even if the race is half done 

 

Wow, I wish you could do that with terrestrial or satellite TV ... oh, what was that?

[loki]

DVR like I do. 

Most of the casual sports viewers on network would watch it live.  The wouldn’t bother to find it later.  That’s why daytime live on network does better than cable only.

[jonpollak]

This is another reason network keeps linear TV alive.
There’s a great interview with Roone Arledge on the national psyche of TV watching on that amazing Television Academy Foundation Interviews (@FoundationINTERVIEWS) channel.
Pay the 20 bucks and revel in the depth and breadth of this tremendous resource.

Jp

[JacnGille]

Most of the casual sports viewers on network would watch it live.  The wouldn’t bother to find it later.  That’s why daytime live on network does better than cable only.

"Most casual viewers" are not going to watch Live at 2:30 AM. Which is exactly what my reply addressed.

[aportinga]

At least some years ago F1 was very much on the level of NASCAR in the 18-49 demographics, at least when both were on cable. F1 got less boost from being in broadcast TV, maybe because it's so rare that its fans are going to get cable anyway whereas NASCAR has so many races on broadcast TV that you may be less inclined to get cable to see the rest of the races.

 

But in terms of overall viewership, NASCAR is way ahead. But it's quite different age demographics.

 

I think only a quarter of Nascar fans are 18-34. F1 has the fastest growing average when it comes to that demographic - growing at a faster rate than Nascar in the States.

 

14% are under 25, 30% are 25-34, 20% are 35-44, 20% are 45-54 and 17% are over 55

[aportinga]

For 2024, NASCAR averaged 2.9 million viewers per race, Indycar averaged 1 million viewers per race, F1 averaged 1.1 million viewers per race

 

Indycar was just under 1 million actually. And if you take out the Indy500, the rest of the schedule shows just above 625,000.

 

Miami helped tremedously with a 3.1 rating but when you consider the time of the majority of races on the F1 schedule, it's much better than what many would expect.

 

Start some of those NASCAR races at 630AM and see what they pull 

Edited by aportinga, 18 February 2025 - 19:10.

[loki]

 

Start some of those NASCAR races at 630AM and see what they pull 

At ‘Dega they’d still be up from the campground parties the night before…

[aportinga]

Of course - it's a party.

Edited by aportinga, 19 February 2025 - 20:07.