732 replies to this topic

[Wes350]

beachdrifter, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:14, said:

While I've been out of the loop with most things F1 for years, and don't even know Lawson, I was surprised to see in the predictions thread that almost everyone thought he would be a disaster at Red Bull.

 

So why did they give him the seat in the first place, if it was so predictable?

 

There are behind the scenes goings on that we are not privy to, and have no idea of.

 

There is also the phenomenon of being too close to the problem...

 

 

 

MikeTekRacing, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:12, said:

the shortcomings suit him. he can no longer make everything happen with it, but they are in his range of dealing with.

That's why they stuck with this direction, because until a point last year he was fine with it, so the team decided to just ignore the other driver saying it's the wrong path

 

Yup. This is their problem.

 

Like Albon said; Max's tolerance's for the quirks of the car are on another level.

 

But it is an absolute beast to drive for everyone else whose fathers are not named Jos...

 

In my opinion; The car is what it is at this point in the development cycle. RB will not put the resources into a concept reboot with the 2026 regs just around the corner.

 

What RB needs Right Now; is someone that can make it work, and drag that hot-mess into Q3 on the regular to support Max.

 

And at this point, anyone will do.

Edited by Wes350, 25 March 2025 - 21:49.

[MJB5990]

Say Yuki is out in Q1. Then what? Gasly, Albon, Perez and now Lawson. They can't all be the second coming of 2009 Ferrari Luca Badoer.

[thegamer23]

Nice way to potentially end two (Lawson, Tsunoda) young drivers careers in the space of a few weeks.

Red Bull drivers management is questionable.

.

Edited by thegamer23, 25 March 2025 - 21:31.

[jonklug]

Alfisti, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:09, said:

This has played out PERFECTLY for Tsunoda. If he rocks up and lays an egg, people will just go "see, the car is rubbish r built around max" or whatever, if he makes Q2 he looks like a genius. 

 

I grow tired of saying it, but the car isn't slow and tough to drive because of Max Verstappen. 

[Joseki]

If Tsunoda flops and Lawson is somewhat decent in the VCARB, genuinely what does Red Bull do?

 

How do they move from there?

[PrinceBira]

Joseki, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:32, said:

If Tsunoda flops and Lawson is somewhat decent in the VCARB, genuinely what does Red Bull do?

How do they move from there?

Well that’s clear isn’t it?

Lawson then to replace Verstappen.

[Gravelngrass]

None of the most serious F1 sites has confirmed this.

[jonklug]

Bliman, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:26, said:

The car suits him pretty well. You could see when it didn't suit him so well because Perez was immediately faster or very close to him.

 

You're talking about the season where Max Verstappen came from 9th on the grid to beat Perez who started on Pole in Miami? Your argument actually proves that RedBull don't build "cars for Verstappen". The fact that Checo got worse and worse in the car shows the path they took made the car harder to handle for all drivers - as acknowledged by Verstappen himself. This is a car made on computer simulations that has to be driven like on that simulation to work. They didn't do that because of Verstappen, but they are incredibly lucky that he is still able to drive it like that. Most other driver's can't. RedBull need to fix their car, not because they built it for Verstappen - but because they built a bad car while trying to make it faster. 

Edited by jonklug, 25 March 2025 - 21:36.

[renzmann]

Reportedly, Verstappen is pretty angry about sacking Lawson. Makes it extra weird they would go for an extreme decision like this.

 

Either Lawson is making an ass of himself behind the scenes, or they actually try to spare him further humiliation at RBR, I reckon. I guess it's the latter, since he will be able to go on at Racing Bulls.

[Disgrace]

renzmann, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:38, said:

Reportedly, Verstappen is pretty angry about sacking Lawson. Makes it extra weird they would go for an extreme decision like this.

 

Either Lawson is making an ass of himself behind the scenes, or they actually try to spare him further humiliation at RBR, I reckon. I guess it's the latter, since he will be able to go on at Racing Bulls.

Maybe Max wanted the sack himself, in order to drive the Racing Bulls car.

[Ivanhoe]

jonklug, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:35, said:

You're talking about the season where Max Verstappen came from 9th on the grid to beat Perez who started on Pole in Miami? Your argument actually proves that RedBull don't build "cars for Verstappen". The fact that Checo got worse and worse in the car shows the path they took made the car harder to handle for all drivers - as acknowledged by Verstappen himself. This is a car made on computer simulations that has to be driven like on that simulation to work. They didn't do that because of Verstappen, but they are incredibly lucky that he is still able to drive it like that. Most other driver's can't. RedBull need to fix their car, not because they built it for Verstappen - but because they built a bad car while trying to make it faster. 

That’s about what Newey said about it.

Quote

I think Red Bull, from what I could see, the car was – already the ’24 car and through the very last stages of ’23 as well, I would say – starting to become more difficult to drive. And of course Max [Verstappen] could handle that if you like, it didn’t suit him but he could handle it.

“Checo [Sergio Perez] couldn’t, so you also started through [the] ’23 season to see more of a difference in performance between the teammates, Max and Checo. That carried into the first part of ’24 but the car was still quick enough to be able to cope with it.

“It’s something I was starting to become concerned about, but not many of the people in the organisation seemed to be very concerned about.

“From what I can see from the outside – but I don’t know – the guys at Red Bull, this is no criticism but I think they just perhaps through lack of experience kept going in that same direction, and the problem became more and more acute to the point that even Max found it difficult to drive,” Newey added.

[Jellyfishcake]

I'm surprised this has happened so soon, but in a way, the media pressure almost hyped it up to the point it felt like Red Bull are actually just following the rumour.

 

Anyway, Lawson hasn't done a good job, but that said with car troubles and barely any pre-season running Red Bull haven't exactly done a good job either.

 

Will be interesting to see how Tsunoda gets on, he is much more experienced than Lawson, and likewise Hadjar v Lawson at Racing Bulls will be an interesting match up, can Lawson salvage his F1 career or will he be out mid season and replaced by Lindblad once he is 18...

[beachdrifter]

renzmann, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:38, said:

Reportedly, Verstappen is pretty angry about sacking Lawson.

Why?

[Darnswim]

Nicktendo86, on 25 Mar 2025 - 20:23, said:

This simultaneously makes perfect sense and is absolutely nuts all at the same time. I’m gobsmacked.

It's the logical decision. Shame that the idiots at RBR took 2 races to realise it, ruining the confidence of a young driver in the process. Sackable offence in all honesty.

[scheivlak]

Disgrace, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:02, said:

Late Soviet Red Bull Racing.

Making quick decisions usually wasn't very Soviet style

[renzmann]

beachdrifter, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:44, said:

Why?

Presumably because he thinks the car is the problem, not Lawson.

 

https://www.gpblog.c...t-red-bull.html

[danmills]

Do or die really for Yuki, even a great season at Racing Bulls was never going to do that much for his 2026 prospects bar earn him another extension.

 

He's got nothing to lose, I've never hoped more for a driver to absolutely hit the ground running.

 

A good show here after a flurry of disappointment will elevate his stock massively.

 

Rain? A podium? Imagine.

 

Top 10 on debut would be satisfactory I think.

Edited by danmills, 25 March 2025 - 21:49.

[TomNokoe]

Jellyfishcake, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:43, said:

I'm surprised this has happened so soon, but in a way, the media pressure almost hyped it up to the point it felt like Red Bull are actually just following the rumour.

Yup, I felt similar. It really rubs me the wrong way. Treat the sport with some respect FFS!

[Dutchrudder]

Liam looked like he knew he was cooked in his interview during quali at the last race.

See how Yuki gets on, I have a sneaking suspicion that Max is performing miracles in a dog of a car, Yuki probably deserved the shot ahead of Lawson, though, but to promote and then drop after 2 races is an utter disgrace from RedBull!

[Ivanhoe]

What a joke this team has become since Mateschitz passed away.

[F1Lurker]

It would be hilarious if Yuki out qualifies and out races Max in Japan. Heads would explode all around.

[Chillimeister]

I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb to say, he won't.

[OvDrone]

Joseki, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:32, said:

If Tsunoda flops and Lawson is somewhat decent in the VCARB, genuinely what does Red Bull do?

 

How do they move from there?

That's easy:

• Move Hadjar to RBR
• Move Tsunoda and Lawson to Super Formula
• Move Perez and Ricciardo to RB for one last showdown
• If Hadjar fails in two gps, move Lindblad to RBR

Edited by OvDrone, 25 March 2025 - 22:02.

[beachdrifter]

TomNokoe, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:53, said:

Yup, I felt similar. It really rubs me the wrong way. Treat the sport with some respect FFS!

In the past, I felt like it was the opposite with them: They kept choosing unproven drivers and stuck with them way too long, after it was long clear that things wouldn't improve. "He has until Race X.... ok, now he has until Race Y... ok, next season he gets another chance."

[Darnswim]

F1Lurker, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:57, said:

It would be hilarious if Yuki out qualifies and out races Max in Japan. Heads would explode all around.

Yuki is one of my favourite drivers, but the guy struggled for 2 season against Gasly at AT (ok, one of them was his debut season but still...). No chance he out-performs the best driver in F1, with a new car that he has never driven. If he does, then logic is ****ing useless because nothing makes sense.

[jonklug]

Ivanhoe, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:42, said:

That’s about what Newey said about it.

 

You know it's funny. I noticed this in 23. Said it here in the 2nd part of the year when Verstappen was still winning - that the advantage was gone and no way was Checo finishing constantly off the podium in what was supposedly a rocketship. Verstappen was already driving the wheels off that car to keep winning, McLaren in Silverstone and Qatar really gave them a run for their money - it was a sign of what was to come. But of course many dismissed it as "trying to make Verstappen look better". Not much has changed sadly, but I will continue to point out the truth. 

[Darnswim]

beachdrifter, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:01, said:

In the past, I felt like it was the opposite with them: They kept choosing unproven drivers and stuck with them way too long, after it was long clear that things wouldn't improve. "He has until Race X.... ok, now he has until Race Y... ok, next season he gets another chance."

Really? They replaced Gasly and Kyvat really early (considering Kyvat had a good 2015). The only one that they gave time was Albon.

[ArchieTech]

It's literally 10 days since Australia qualifying! Hardly time to catch your breath and reportedly out of the team. Brutal, as someone said above.

 

Assuming the reports are true then:

 

For Liam I hope this is a chance to thrive with less pressure and a more neutral car. Pierre Gasly continued his career and is doing well.

 

For Yuki it's a great opportunity, and either he does better, or confirms that the second seat really is cursed. More upside than downside for him

Edited by ArchieTech, 25 March 2025 - 22:08.

[beachdrifter]

Darnswim, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:03, said:

Really? They replaced Gasly and Kyvat really early (considering Kyvat had a good 2015). The only one that they gave time was Albon.

 

Exactly the one I had in mind. That was nerve-wrecking at the time. And then they still chose the wrong guy.

Edited by beachdrifter, 25 March 2025 - 22:04.

[vlado]

Was Lawson good in the juniors? Why struggling so much?

[JL14]

All I have to say about this is that if the report is true, Honda is very stupid to cough up a million or 10 since it's pretty clear Red Bull (has already come to the decision it) doesn't really have a choice than put Yuki in the seat and see how that pans out.

[GiorgioF1]

Another one thrown in the pit for Max to obliterate.

 

This will be like hitting a brick wall for Yuki after the reality hits.

[Afterburner]

ClubmanGT, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:03, said:

Be interesting to see if Tsunoda suffers the same sort of gremlins Lawson has had, or whether he gets a clean run at it. Or whether Honda has something up their sleeve for a home race with a home driver in terms of turning the wick up like Toyota used to (although from memory that was more about fuel levels when they were doing it).

I mean, it's early in the season, but would be funny if they just ran the power unit to the point that it'll blow up 3 laps into FP1 at the following race just to get Tsunoda a win in Japan.

 

I'm also of the thought that Tsunoda has more to gain than lose here. If he does well it'll be all him, if he does poorly, well, there's not a shortage of people who've done poorly in that car and he's got a low bar to clear!

 

My mind goes back to Fisichella replacing Badoer at Ferrari in 2009. Tsunoda will hope it goes a little more like Verstappen replacing Kvyat in 2016.

[sportyskells]

erm cue the intro change (1st one of the season and we thought doiohan would be 1st gone)

Edited by sportyskells, 25 March 2025 - 22:09.

[pdac]

They could have had Yuki in that seat months and months ago. That says so much about the competence of the management.

[PrinceBira]

F1Lurker, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:57, said:

It would be hilarious if Yuki out qualifies and out races Max in Japan. Heads would explode all around.

Would be fantastic as we can then finally kill the nonsense about how the car was only designed for Verstappen.

Or will we then get ‘yeah it’s designed for Verstappen ánd Tsunoda, as desired by Honda obviously’?

[Marklar]

Darnswim, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:01, said:

Yuki is one of my favourite drivers, but the guy struggled for 2 season against Gasly at AT (ok, one of them was his debut season but still...). No chance he out-performs the best driver in F1, with a new car that he has never driven. If he does, then logic is ****ing useless because nothing makes sense.

to be fair in their 2nd season they were close. 

 

 

Darnswim, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:03, said:

Really? They replaced Gasly and Kyvat really early (considering Kyvat had a good 2015). The only one that they gave time was Albon.

They replaced Kvyat mostly because while his performance was very average they had with Max a driver in the wings that would be wasted, this is clearly currently not the case.

Gasly got half a season, which is what I suspected Lawson would get before this year. Mind you, partly thanks to how far away the midfield was Gasly's results werent that bad in relation to Verstappen, so it made sense that he got more time

I think Lawson deserved to get Suzuka at least though. To at least get the chance to prove that there is potential in him since this is the first track he actually knows.
 

thegamer23, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:27, said:

Nice way to potentially end two (Lawson, Tsunoda) young drivers careers in the space of a few weeks.

Red Bull drivers management is questionable.

.

will certainly be interesting what they do next

I suspect if Tsunoda doesnt last the season (and the odds are likely I reckon) he will get tossed out entirely and Hadjar promoted, then Lindblad gets promoted to Racing Bulls.

I guess after this they would consider either Lindblad or Colapinto. Let's see how many scenarios they will play through at the end   

I think personally one change is fine (even if this is too early), they are essentially correcting their mistake, but they really shouldnt spend all year rotating drivers out of this seat because the longer the season goes the harder it actually will be to adapt to a car that Verstappen has most likely mastered even more by then.

[jonklug]

PrinceBira, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:08, said:

Would be fantastic as we can then finally kill the nonsense about how the car was only designed for Verstappen.

Or will we then get ‘yeah it’s designed for Verstappen ánd Tsunoda, as desired by Honda obviously’?

 

No, in that case the "built for Verstappen" brigade would call Max washed/overrated. "See I told you he wasn't all that". They have a line prepared for each scenario. 

[garoidb]

JL14, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:06, said:

All I have to say about this is that if the report is true, Honda is very stupid to cough up a million or 10 since it's pretty clear Red Bull (has already come to the decision it) doesn't really have a choice than put Yuki in the seat and see how that pans out.

 

It might be worth a lot to them to get it sorted for the Japanese Grand Prix.

[Bliman]

jonklug, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:35, said:

You're talking about the season where Max Verstappen came from 9th on the grid to beat Perez who started on Pole in Miami? Your argument actually proves that RedBull don't build "cars for Verstappen". The fact that Checo got worse and worse in the car shows the path they took made the car harder to handle for all drivers - as acknowledged by Verstappen himself. This is a car made on computer simulations that has to be driven like on that simulation to work. They didn't do that because of Verstappen, but they are incredibly lucky that he is still able to drive it like that. Most other driver's can't. RedBull need to fix their car, not because they built it for Verstappen - but because they built a bad car while trying to make it faster.

They made the fastest car possible and in the beginning it didn't suit him and you saw it. Perez also said he wasn't pleased the development didn't go his way the season went on.

[JL14]

garoidb, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:11, said:

It might be worth a lot to them to get it sorted for the Japanese Grand Prix.

 

But why? With Yuki in the Racing Bulls they were pretty much guaranteed a pretty decent showing from Yuki, while for his first weekend in the Red Bull chances on that are much less as he will have to get up to speed with that car in any case.

[balmybaldwin]

beachdrifter, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:44, said:

Why?

Scared of Yuki?

[beachdrifter]

balmybaldwin, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:17, said:

Scared of Yuki?

 

Probably!

 

I just thought the way Max talked about Lawson suggested to me he neither liked nor thought highly of him as a driver.

Edited by beachdrifter, 25 March 2025 - 22:22.

[JHSingo]

To use a Dr Marko expression: embarrassing. 

Serious questions need to be asked about what the hell is going on at Red Bull at the moment. For a team so successful, they're such a shambles. 

[garoidb]

JL14, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:17, said:

But why? With Yuki in the Racing Bulls they were pretty much guaranteed a pretty decent showing from Yuki, while for his first weekend in the Red Bull chances on that are much less as he will have to get up to speed with that car in any case.

 

There can be plenty of publicity and anticipation in the build-up to the Grand Prix. That's most of the coverage the Grand Prix will receive. It's a big promotion for Yuki and the reflected credit will be on Honda. Before the racing starts, the sky's the limit as to how well it might all go.

[ClubmanGT]

vlado, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:05, said:

Was Lawson good in the juniors? Why struggling so much?

 

He was OK, not Vandoorne good but he was up the front a bit. Won TRS in 2019 (beat Armstrong), runner up in 2020 (finished ahead of Tsunoda and Colapinto), finished runner up in Superformula, finished runner up on the DTM (beat his team mate, Albon) and only didn't win DTM as a result of one of the dirtiest bits of cheating in the history of motorsport and vowed never to go back. Got out of single seaters and into a GT3 with close to tin-top experience and got rammed out of the final round and then Mercedes pulled some equally shady stuff to get one of their drivers over the line. 

 

 

He had quite a gap of actual racing as well while he was on reserve duties for RB. 

 

E: So yea, he can adapt to a bunch of different stuff and it's one of the reasons I don't entirely but the 'car set up for Max' argument. I think the car is just bad. I won't hold Tsunoda going out in Q3 against him, but I will be extremely skeptical if he suddenly gets on the pace with Max given Lawson was close to him at VCARB and Lawson's versatility. At that point I'd be wondering out loud how much of Liam's limited running time was deliberate given how quickly they appear to be prepared to sack him. 

Edited by ClubmanGT, 25 March 2025 - 22:40.

[PayasYouRace]

Yuki should have had the seat in the first place, IMO. Hope he can do something with that car.

[thermonuclear]

Knowing the Japanese fans as we do, they'll be a healthy number of them there already kitted up in overalls and helmet and ready to jump in the RB21 if Tsunoda isn't on it by FP2.

[Laster]

Autosport now reporting it too.

[Dutchrudder]

ClubmanGT, on 25 Mar 2025 - 22:32, said:

He was OK, not Vandoorne good but he was up the front a bit. Won TRS in 2019 (beat Armstrong), runner up in 2020 (finished ahead of Tsunoda and Colapinto), finished runner up in Superformula, finished runner up on the DTM (beat his team mate, Albon) and only didn't win DTM as a result of one of the dirtiest bits of cheating in the history of motorsport and vowed never to go back. Got out of single seaters and into a GT3 with close to tin-top experience and got rammed out of the final round and then Mercedes pulled some equally shady stuff to get one of their drivers over the line.

https://www.youtube....h?v=FNVm62BFuss

He had quite a gap of actual racing as well while he was on reserve duties for RB.

E: So yea, he can adapt to a bunch of different stuff and it's one of the reasons I don't entirely but the 'car set up for Max' argument. I think the car is just bad. I won't hold Tsunoda going out in Q3 against him, but I will be extremely skeptical if he suddenly gets on the pace with Max given Lawson was close to him at VCARB and Lawson's versatility. At that point I'd be wondering out loud how much of Liam's limited running time was deliberate given how quickly they appear to be prepared to sack him.

That’s a hell of a lot of experience for a young fella, a lot more than the usual crop of formula experienced kids that come through. I guess it’s kinda top class in sports cars, and maybe that’s why RBR feel entitled to stress test them fast when they actually get into F1.

Don’t know if they are truly happy with the results of what they are doing, I tend to think of all the drivers that have come through they can only really count Vettel, Max, and maybe Danny Ric as successes that have benefited their top team, while a fair number of have gone on to do a decent job in F1 for other teams, but flamed out in the top RBR team.