56 replies to this topic

[MP4/?]

I can't understand why there are so many brazilian drivers envolved in F1 and CART... Since Senna I have never seen again another great brazilian racer... Look this list:

- Barrichello
- Marques
- Diniz
- Rosset
- Zonta
- Burti
- Bernoldi
- Gugelmin
- Kannan
- Christian Fittipaldi
- Roberto Moreno
- Gil de Ferran (he won last year title, but he was not impresive)

CART have quited from Rio, and F1 seems not to interested in Interlagos... So I think that there are few commercials reasons..

Good brazilian drivers were Emerson, Nelson and Ayrton, but... that is a long time ago

[312 PB]

uh oh ... :yawn:

[NYR2119935]

mmmmm hot Brazilian girls on beaches of rio wearing minature thongs and going topless

[senninha]

I still don't understand why so many hated for Brazil?

This poor Southamerican country may sucks.
Its drivers are stolen places of "God chosen" europeans. Why?

I'll only reply it, if someone did any decent comment. Until now, i read only bias.

How sad...

[dutra]

You forgot some others like Max Wilson, Bruno Junqueira, Cristiano da Matta and the most important at this moment:
Helio Castro Neves
There are a lot brazillian drivers around the world, but 10 years without a title.
The problem in Rio is that the Mayor is crazy. We are losing the motocycling GP too.

[KinetiK]

Originally posted by dutra
You forgot some others like Max Wilson, Bruno Junqueira, Cristiano da Matta and the most important at this moment:
Helio Castro Neves
There are a lot brazillian drivers around the world, but 10 years without a title.
The problem in Rio is that the Mayor is crazy. We are losing the motocycling GP too.

Crazy??? <-- that sort of crazy? Or is he just an idiot? Would you elaborate a bit as I'm not familiar with the situation.

[Pikachu Racing]

Senninha

I still don't understand why so many hated for Brazil?

I don't know but maybe it's sponsorship packages for Brazilian drivers right now. Sorry to say this, but it seems likely true. Diniz and Parmalat; Big Mo and Hollywood (now Felipe and Hollywood); Alfonso and GM Brazil; Marco Greco and Int. Sports; I think Tony Kanaan did when he arrived at Indy Lights; Rosset and whatever he brought to Tyrell (I maybe wrong). Hey remember some Euro drivers brought sponsorship too.

What many fail to realize that Brazilians, too, take the road along with Europeans with the start in kart racing. They are pretty good drivers but some are left with bad cars or awful direction in racing that causes some to fail to show their potential. Remember Andre Ribeiro? He's got potential to be champion in CART but decide jump to Penske hoping to get one in the career-killing move. One season in the ill-fated Penske chassis and he quit racing. It's sad to see him out.

They say Brazilian soccer team is overrated. Wait, they did lost the World Cup to France.

[MP4/?]

Originally posted by senninha
I still don't understand why so many hated for Brazil?

This poor Southamerican country may sucks.
Its drivers are stolen places of "God chosen" europeans. Why?

I'll only reply it, if someone did any decent comment. Until now, i read only bias.

How sad...

I have nothing against Brazil... I have been there twice and I can say that is a beautiful country, and the people there are very nice... That's not the topic...

I'm talking about the drivers...

[Simioni]

Originally posted by MP4/?
I can't understand why there are so many brazilian drivers envolved in F1 and CART... Since Senna I have never seen again another great brazilian racer... Look this list:

You're right, none of them are great. How exactly does that make them undeserving of their places? Last time I checked most drivers in any grid aren't great. No one thinks of them as great, so how are they overrated?

Every year a few titles and buckets of wins are earned by brazilian drivers in international motorsports. Among the top open-wheel series (F1, CART and F3000) you could gather a group of 10 brazilian drivers whose talent on average would top that of any other nation. Currently there isn't one exceptional driver among them, but brazilians are still pretty much a majority among top level drivers. And then of course there's the heritage of 80 GP wins and 8 WDC titles. I fail to see your point, if there is any.

[Simioni]

Senninha,

Ever heard of paranoia?;)

[MP4/?]

Originally posted by dutra
You forgot some others like Max Wilson, Bruno Junqueira, Cristiano da Matta and the most important at this moment:
Helio Castro Neves
There are a lot brazillian drivers around the world, but 10 years without a title.
The problem in Rio is that the Mayor is crazy. We are losing the motocycling GP too.

Max Wilson has not showed very much, Bruno is doing nothing with the car that last year Montoya lead the most number of laps, Cristiano let's see...

Helio "if you attempt to pass me I will block you" Castro-Neves, has the best car in the championship... He is doing pretty good, but he was detroyed buy Montoya in a poor Toyota last year... whenever I know that he finished ahead of Juan... But number not all the time reflects the truth...

[dutra]

The Jacarepagua Circuit belongs to the city. Well, the mayor said that the city is broked and they don´t have the money to promote the race (4 million dollars) and they only could pay 1 million. The governor diceded to help and pay the rest. They are politic enemys and the mayor decided to prohibit the state help. That´s the story.
Just to compare: With the F1 GP the city of São Paulo collects 80 million dollars.

[NYR2119935]

Originally posted by dutra
You forgot some others like Max Wilson, Bruno Junqueira, Cristiano da Matta and the most important at this moment:
Helio Castro Neves
There are a lot brazillian drivers around the world, but 10 years without a title.
The problem in Rio is that the Mayor is crazy. We are losing the motocycling GP too.

yes please tell everyone about the Mayor of Rio and why he is kicking the CART and bike races out????
I really want to know inside story of this.

[senninha]

Originally posted by MP4/?
I can't understand why there are so many brazilian drivers envolved in F1 and CART... Since Senna I have never seen again another great brazilian racer... Look this list:

- Barrichello
- Marques
- Diniz
- Rosset
- Zonta
- Burti
- Bernoldi
- Gugelmin
- Kannan
- Christian Fittipaldi
- Roberto Moreno
- Gil de Ferran (he won last year title, but he was not impresive)

CART have quited from Rio, and F1 seems not to interested in Interlagos... So I think that there are few commercials reasons..

Good brazilian drivers were Emerson, Nelson and Ayrton, but... that is a long time ago

Well, let's see:

Until now, Piquet counted 39 victories for brazilian driver on international categories. Last year was more than 100 victories.

About the sporsorship: it's makes me laugh!!!! So, Brazil spent all his money on racing drivers. Only ciggar companies (majority from USA) has some interests in Brazil. Parmalat is a partner of Pedro's dad and the ITALIAN company.

Analisys driver by driver:

Barrichello - brazilian F-ford champion; European F-Opel cahmpion, brit F-3 champion ; 3th in his first F3000 year; driver winner in F1; teamate of the best driver in activity. (but, he wasn't brit to get into Williams and Mclaren as DC, wich had a ridiculous results. compared to Rubens) - very decent driver (above the media)

Marques - won F3000 races and NEVER had a good car - but still young (26). Decent driver.

Diniz - i picked him only to prove your stupid theory. Congratulations! But , at least, Diniz did some points in F1 (a lot never did) and outqualified Jean Alesi (99) and did a good role against WDC Hill and Panis. Hated for beeing a rich guy.

Rosset - runner-up on F3000 - didn't do the big step in F1, got out and never raced anymore.

Zonta - Southamerian F3 champion - F3000 champion - Fia GT champion, and still young. So ...

Burti - runner-up on brit F3 (AHEAD BUTTON). Has only 8 races in F1. So...

Bernoldi - only 7 races in F1. So....

Gugelmin - brit F3 champion - did a podium in F1 race. Cart winner. Decent driver.

Kanaan - Indy lights champion - Cart winner - still young - is destroing Zanardi

C. Fittipaldi - Southamerican F3 champion - F3000 champion - had some points in F1 - Cart winner

Roberto Moreno - F2 runner up - F3000 champion - did a podium in F1 - Cart winner

Gil de Ferran - Brit F3 champion - 3th (twice) in F3000 - never raced in F1 - Cart winner - Cart champion - GREAT DRIVER

Raul Boesel - FIA GT champion.

I know you did your very best trying to bash brazilian drivers. But take a look in your list of bad drivers. Here we have:

13 INTERNATIONAL TITLES!!!! (so, the rest of the world makes brazilian soooo good)

Including: 3 in top cathegories; 5 in F3; 3 in F3000


Just wait the reply of the best ones !!!

[senninha]

Now, the brazilians drivers "hidden" for MP4/? :

Emerson Fitipaldi - championships: brit F-Ford; 2 WDC's at F-1; once at Cart; 2 INdy 500 wins. 14 victories in F1 and 22 at Cart.

Nelson Piquet - championships - brit F3 - 3 WDC's F-1. 23 victories and 22 poles in F1.

Ayrton Senna - championships - brit FF-1600 and 2000, brit F3 - 3 WDC's F1. 41 victories and 65 poles.

Jose Carlos Pace - 1 race victory in F1.

Due it: BRAZIL IS THE MOST SUCCESFUL COUNTRY IN F1 - 80 VICTORIES!!!!

The new generation is comming:

1 - Felipe Massa - champion both italian and european F- Renault even losing some races due the schedulle (won Kimi, but as a SA didn't go to F1). In 2001. two races, two victories at European F-3000;

2 - Antonio Pizzonia - brit F-Renault champion. brit F3 champion. In 2001: best rookie in F3000

3 - R. Sperafico - champion on Italian F3000 last year

4 - Bruno Junqueira - southamerican F3 champion - F3000 champion - Cart revelation;

5 - Hoover Orsi - 2001: F Atlantic leader

6 - Felipe Giaffone - 5th in standings in his first IRL year

7 - Nilton Rossoni - F Barber Dodge champion last year

New generation wich already have results:

8 - Helio Castroneves - runner up in Indy lights (lost to Kanaan) - 5 victories at Cart - Indy 500 actual winner

9 - C. da Matta - Indy Lights champion - 3 races winner at Cart


more 23 INTERNATIONAL TITLES for Brazilian drivers !!!


sorry if i forget any other GREAT BRAZILIAN DRIVER.

AFTERALL, THERE ARE SO MANY....

[senninha]

Originally posted by dutra
You forgot the F3000 title last year of my ex-neighbor Bruno Junqueira.

No , dutra, i'm not. IT's just because MP4/? didn't have the guts to criticize Bruno too....

[dutra]

Hey, were´s my reply?

[MP4/?]

Dear senninha:

Barrichello: hasn't been able to do something against Schumi, also his victory in F1 I think that was the luckiest victory ever in a Grand Prix race (even more than the one that had Schumi in Spain)... I don't see him as a consistent driver... actually I doubting if he deserves a sit in a F1 car...

Tarso: Has been outraced and autqualified by every team mate in F1 and CART (with a super decent car last year)... I was very surprised when he get a sit in Minardi...

Diniz: Was outqualified and outraced by every partner.... He drove a F1 car only because of his money...

Rosset: I have to say something?

Zonta: won every championship he raced until 1998... then he couldn't do anything against Villeneuve... How bad was his job? Look at this year Panis performance outqualifing and outracing Jacques... Also in the Canada Grand Prix he was detroyed by Trulli showing that he is not prepared for a F1 sit again...

Burti: has shown nothing

Bernoldi: has shown a lot blocking Coulthard in Monaco ;) has been outqualified and outraced by Verstappen... I think that he will be fired next year...

Gugelmin: has been in a trip in CART... He has done nothing... this year he has a decent car and nothing too...

Kannan, Moreno and Fittipaldi: average drivers.... In CART is no so dificult to take a victory... The series is very competitive and there are a lot of yellow flags, so strategy counts a lot, sometimes more that driver's skills...

De Ferran: With the best car he won a championship.... Before nothing...

Helio "blocking" castro-neves.... He crashed many times Montoya... he couldn't take the championship last year from De Ferran...

[MP4/?]

senninha:

As I said in the starting post I admired: Senna, Emerson Fittipaldi and Piquet...

actually I have to say that I started watching F1 in 1981 because of Piquet...

[ehagar]

Brazil has a very strong karting community and their drivers are well prepared by the time they get to Europe. They also are viewed as heros about on par to their football (soccer) players and some thereby become well supported (Tony Kanaan had to do it the hard way I think though...)

Timing is everything to getting into F-1. Notice that there are more Spanish drivers now? Well, Spain is starting to look beyond two wheels sometimes (although, lets face it Bikes are king in Spain). Hence you have Marc Gene, PDL, etc...

If the timing were right, Jordi Gene would be in F-1 years ago.

[senninha]

Originally posted by MP4/?
Dear senninha:

Barrichello: actually I doubting if he deserves a sit in a F1 car...

I THINK ONLY GOD DESERVES A F1 CAR IN YOUR HUMBLE OPINION. ATLEAST RESPECT THE PROFESSIONAL WICH HAS MORE THAN 7 YEARS IN THIS JOB OR JUST ASK J. STEWART.

Tarso: Has been outraced and autqualified by every team mate in F1 and CART (with a super decent car last year)... I was very surprised when he get a sit in Minardi...

FIRST MINARDI ATTEMPT SAID THE OPPOSITE, SORRY HE HAS NO MONEY AND DON'T HAVE BRIATORE AS A MANAGER. AND, OF COURSE, HIS PAYTON COYNE SWIFT FORD WAS THE BEST CAR LAST YEAR AT CART!!!

Zonta: won every championship he raced until 1998... then he couldn't do anything against Villeneuve... How bad was his job? Look at this year Panis performance outqualifing and outracing Jacques... Also in the Canada Grand Prix he was detroyed by Trulli showing that he is not prepared for a F1 sit again...

SO, ZONTA IS A BAD DRIVER? ZONTA WILL MAKE YOU EAT YOUR WORD FASTER THAN YOU THINK.

Burti: has shown nothing

DID HE HAD TIME TO SHOW SOMETHING?

Bernoldi: has shown a lot blocking Coulthard in Monaco ;) has been outqualified and outraced by Verstappen... I think that he will be fired next year...

THE SAME AS BURTI, AND BTW, IN QUALIFYING THERE'S 4x4 AGAISNT JVe...

Gugelmin: has been in a trip in CART... He has done nothing... this year he has a decent car and nothing too...

Kannan, Moreno and Fittipaldi: average drivers.... In CART is no so dificult to take a victory... The series is very competitive and there are a lot of yellow flags, so strategy counts a lot, sometimes more that driver's skills...

I THINK IT'S EASIER WIN IN F1 WITH MCLAREN OR FERRARI OR WILLIAMS THAN IN CART.

De Ferran: With the best car he won a championship.... Before nothing...

YES, GREAT FERRARI- TRACTION CONTROLLED CAR HE HAD.
BTW: THE SAME CAR AS FRANCHITTI AND TRACY, FOR EXAMPLE. IN WICH WORLD ARE YOU?

Helio "blocking" castro-neves.... He crashed many times Montoya... he couldn't take the championship last year from De Ferran...

I FELT SOME "FEAR" FROM YOU ABOUT CASTRONEVES ... AS I REMEMBER HE CRASHED ONCE WITH JPM.

[senninha]

Originally posted by MP4/?
senninha:

As I said in the starting post I admired: Senna, Emerson Fittipaldi and Piquet...

actually I have to say that I started watching F1 in 1981 because of Piquet...

After what i read, i think you have guts to bash even GOD, if God is brazilian...

[Mr. Salty]

Wish I could list this many American drivers to bitchfight about.........

[ehagar]

Originally posted by Mr. Salty
Wish I could list this many American drivers to bitchfight about.........

Unfortunately, it seems everyone in North America is infatuated with NASCRAP. At least Paul Edwards is trying and being mildly sucessful.

Without corporate support for US (or Canadian) drivers in open wheel ranks it looks highly improbable.

[coyoteBR]

I beg to differ about some drivers:

Roberto Pupo Moreno: more than a decent driver, he made miracles with some of worst cars ever on F-1. It isn't every driver that manages to drive and adapted F-3000 in a F-1 G-Prix. While everyone talked about the impressive new talented kids, "Baixo" fighted for CART c'ship last year.

Tarso Marques: Again and again - his job is to develop Alonso's car. His own equipment is much slower. Even so, he was the personal choice of Giancarlo Minardi, who was very prised with the sucessful first run of Tarso on his team, years ago. Besides, for those who complain about massive sponsor investment on brazilian drivers, Tarso Marques has no company backing him up.

Like someone said, the race sport works on cicles. Don't we have great drivers from Finland, wining everything at the top categories? How about Germany, with Ralf, Frentzen, not to mention Him?
Spain is raising like a powerful force, with very talented de la Rosa and fast drivers like Alonso and Oriol Servia.

Brazil had, almost non-stop, Emmo, Piquet and senna. That raised the expectations of every driver from this Green and yellow lands. Also created the culture of racesports here. If the media show, why my company won't put money on that car or kid?

[BRG]

Why are all Brazilian drivers expected to be brilliant?

Just like every other country, Brazil produces some drivers that ARE brilliant (Senna, Emerson), some that are good (eg Piquet), some that are average, some that are mediocre, and some that are crap (you can fill in names for yourselves for the latter categories).

Anyone who says that, if a driver comes from Brazil, he must be another Senna, is just being ridiculous.

[birdie]

Someone said with 80 victories Brazil has won more than any other country. According to Forix GB has won 187 and Brazil are in second place.

[BRG]

Originally posted by birdie
According to Forix GB has won 187 and Brazil are in second place.

Damn, now there will be some specious attempt to divide the British wins up into English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish...

[molive]

Good post Coyote.

I also thought about this "wave" thing. Germany is high at the moment, but Brazil can come back to the top in a few years...I´m just waiting to see if the best Brazilian driver (at the moment) is going to have a crack at F1: HELIO. But if he doesn´t I´m sure there are plenty of good talent waiting in the ranks (I do have some expectations regarding Pizzonia). So, at least if nothing too serious change the economical or political situation, CART, F1 and other high level series will always have some Brazilians fighting for the top positions.


To birdie: Yes, but GB´s glories are mostly from the past and the Brazilians only started making it a few decades ago (since the 70s) so, give us some time and we´ll catch´em up...;)

[BRG]

Originally posted by molive
GB´s glories are mostly from the past

Mostly from the past? We have a more recent WDC, and a more recent GP winner than Brazil. Britain has produced race winners and champions steadily since the late 1950s and we are still producing them.

[titrisol]

MP4/ what's your point?
if brazilian drivers suck, where are the drivers from anywhere else?

Brazilians have PASSION for what they do, and that's something not many guys can say.

Which would be your alternatives? I don;t know much about F-3 or F-3000 but LatinAmerica has great drivers that would make car races a lot of fun if they had the money/sponsor to race.

Argentina, Mexico, and Colombia could be real powerhouses for car & moto racing if they had the resources.

[gray_cat]

Originally posted by BRG
Damn, now there will be some specious attempt to divide the British wins up into English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish...

You wouldn't be so uptight about such division if it was St.Andrew's you were waving, I recon ;)

[molive]

OK BRG, so let´s take it from the mid seventies on (say, from 75) and see who got more wins, poles and championships.

No actually, itps better if we take the Nº of drivers/win ratio and see who fairs better....I´m sure GB used like 1000 drivers to get those 187 wins...

[gray_cat]

Originally posted by molive
No actually, itps better if we take the Nº of drivers/win ratio and see who fairs better....I´m sure GB used like 1000 drivers to get those 187 wins...

Well, Molive, come think of it, it is only one win per race you can get - number of drivers present is hardly relevent ;)

[molive]

Graycat, yep, but if GB had, say, 30 drivers in the last 2 decades, while Brazil had 10 you can do the math and see that they´ll have more chances of winning. If you go further and see how many Brits and Brazilians got top rides in that period...etc, etc...

All pointless. actually.

Britain invented Soccer, Brazil perfected it.
The same with F1 driving.

[Montre-AL]

Yes we must "drive" out these Brasileiros in order to make
room for more Buttons.

[BRG]

Why has this been turned into a Brazil versus Britain row? These are the top two countries for F1 success - OK, Britain had a head-start and Brazil has done well in a shorter time. But I don't see any reason to argue about it?

Shouldn't the question be why haven't France, Germany, Italy Japan and the USA done as well as either Brazil or Britain? Some serious under-achievement there, I reckon!!

[pebe1973]

The key to this question is how the big the marketplace is in country's like Brazil.

Large marketplace=more sponsor money= better and more drives for country men.

You see the same thing in Germany at the moment: 1 real star ( M schumacher) gets the marketplace F1 minded= big companies see the potential and cough up large sums of money= better and more drives for country-men HHF, Heidfeld, RSchumacher.

IMO Japan needs one real F1 star to create the same effect in their country

[molive]

Originally posted by pebe1973
The key to this question is how the big the marketplace is in country's like Brazil.

Large marketplace=more sponsor money= better and more drives for country men.

You see the same thing in Germany at the moment: 1 real star ( M schumacher) gets the marketplace F1 minded= big companies see the potential and cough up large sums of money= better and more drives for country-men HHF, Heidfeld, RSchumacher.

IMO Japan needs one real F1 star to create the same effect in their country

You may be right abut the market size being a factor, but the talent has to be there first. I mean, the guys have to go out, prove themselves worthy of sponsorship and then get some backing. Also, the racing "culture" has to exist.

The public will only buy your product if they´re interested in whatever you´re sponsoring, right? If market power alone was enough to make good drivers then China and the US would have plenty of racers in F1 and CART.

I´m sure that it´s the same for Japan. First there has to be somebody good enough to deserve Sony or other big company´s name attached to him. (remember Hiro Matsuchita (sp?)) he got the full backing of Panasonic and still didn´t make it to the top.

[The Kanisteri]

I think Brazilian F1 pilots are UNDERRATED (except Ayrton Senna da Silva R.I.P )

Because they need massive load of cash to get drive and speak weird language most of us are underrating them and thinking: 'What the that geek-with-rich-parents are doing here anyway, perhaps he has cash but for god sake he can't drive at all!!!'

Shame on you Europeans!

[pebe1973]

Molive

Your right that talent is a important factor.

My germany-example proves that:

MSchumacher has enormous talent.

I only suggested that the size of the marketplace determines if not so talented F1-drivers get a seat in F1.

And than we have the factor ' nationalistic' . Brazilians like whatever country-men are doing in any sports.

In Soccer for example there are also much Brasilians. Many could not match the expectations.

So maybe the formula is: big marketplace+1 enormous talent= large ammounts of sponsormoney+' nationalistic' enviroment= many drivers of the same countru ( many cannot live up to the expectations)

[molive]

Yep. Maybe you´re right. I think some sponsors are just throwing their money around and hoping that they might catch a big fish (like a new Senna or Piquet) which would bring them great coverage. Others are just happy to have their name linked to a high profile sport like F1 and don´t care if their driver is not the best.

I remember the case of "Banco Nacional". It´s a small Brazilian bank . They don´t advertize much and nobody actually cared about them untill their pupil, whom they sponsored since the early stages, make it big. Everytime Senna wore a hat with the "national" logo it was worth millions of free-ride advertisement. It´s gotta be one of the most sucessful cases of money-back sponsorship in sports. Since Senna died, however, they disappeared from the sport scene, and I never heard of BN again...weird.

I find it strange that a big Brazilian company currently investing in F1 (Petrobras, who provides fuel for Williams and Lubricants to Jordan) doesn´t have it´s name attached to a driver. Instead they go for teams who don´t even have Brazilians.

[pebe1973]

I think Nacional is now involved with tennisstar Kuerten....

As for your comment on the USA: they started their own F1-like series.

[molive]

Originally posted by pebe1973
I think Nacional is now involved with tennisstar Kuerten....

I think you´re wrong.

As far as I remember, Kuerten is sponsored by Rider (shoe makers), Diadora (Italian sportswear) and Banco do Brasil (the country´s biggest bank).

[dutra]

Nacional Bank bankrupted years ago. Unibanco bought it.
Why everybody still saying that brazilians don´t have problems to find sponsors. We lost Indy because nobody cared about. It´s the only thing that holds the enormous talent of ours driver. Tarso Marques doesn´t have a single partner from Brazil. The only company that do a big sponsorship program is Petrobras.
About Helio and Gil de Ferran. Somebody could have the best car of the track without be a great driver.

[coyoteBR]

Originally posted by molive


I think you´re wrong.

As far as I remember, Kuerten is sponsored by Rider (shoe makers), Diadora (Italian sportswear) and Banco do Brasil (the country´s biggest bank).

Also by Globo.com, internet provider.

Senna: in the begining, he was sponsored by the bank Banerj, thad decided to stop the relationship when AS was already on Europe. Nacional just jumped in.

Now, a question about sponsorship: I see, on TV, these lesser categories of north-american motorsport (formula Dodger and such). Now, if you could see Brazil's Formula Chevrolet, or even the F-3, its a amazing difference. Most of the cars, here, run without any sponsor name - when the drivers get on the podium, their overalls bears no logo at all (well, maybe Sparco's ;) )
Even some Stock-Cars (our Nascar) cars are clean of sponsorship.

We also lack long-term relationships, like molive said, it's common to a brand lauch their racing team with a lot of media noise and, the next year, simply drop the project. Pepsi, for instance, is expert on this yo-yo partnership.

Exceptions: the great Ingo Hoffman and Castrol; Banespa (bank) Volleyball team; Banco Real (bank) and tennis tournments

[molive]

Ingo keeps amazing me...the guy is one of the oldest in the field and keep on kicking arse....how does he do it? I wonder what he would have done if he went to open-wheel racing in his early career.

[Williams]

Originally posted by BRG
Damn, now there will be some specious attempt to divide the British wins up into English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish...

Couldn't resist

=============
England - 115 wins
=============
Mansell 31
D. Hill 22
Moss 16
G.Hill 14
Hunt 10
Brooks 6
Surtees 6
Hawthorn 3
Herbert 3
Collins 3
Gethin 1

=============
Scotland - 64 wins
=============
Stewart 27
Clark 25
Coulthard 11
Ireland 1

=============
Ireland - 9 wins
=============
Watson 5
Irvine 4

Adds up to 188, Forix says 187, go figure...

[senninha]

Originally posted by BRG
Why are all Brazilian drivers expected to be brilliant?

Just like every other country, Brazil produces some drivers that ARE brilliant (Senna, Emerson), some that are good (eg Piquet), some that are average, some that are mediocre, and some that are crap (you can fill in names for yourselves for the latter categories).

Anyone who says that, if a driver comes from Brazil, he must be another Senna, is just being ridiculous.

Agree; and never will have another Senna.

IMHO,the actual problem for brazilian drivers is who has a good sponsorship and is able to do a jump to F1, normally are the averages and mediocres drivers.
But it is F1 system guilty. To be F1 driver you should be a good "product". It's more important than be a talented driver.

You can see clearly in my list. There a lot of talent brazilian drivers. It's not a coincidente win THAT number of international titles.
But, the drivers got into F1 since some time are the less impresive of that list. Let's see: Rosset, Diniz, Burti, Bernoldi and Marques simply doesn't have such a good "curriculum vitae" than a lot of drivers wich found USA "market".

People wich only see F1 (the majority) keeps under impression there are only average drivers from Brazil, actually. Unluckily, these are the "F1 products".

I already said here: brazilian's best drivers are in USA,place wich they have more oportunities when not have enough money (the majority of them). Look, Penske is something like Ferrari in USA and they have 2 brazilian drivers due their competence.

But i trust of lot in Felipe Massa (THIS IS BRAZILIAN FUTURE) and Antonio Pizzonia (CAN BE, IF DO THE RIGHT STEP).

[magic]

senna's shoes are too big to fill.