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Ecce Homo 1905 , 1921 - 1937 , 1950 - 1958 race results


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#1 Roman

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Posted 25 June 2001 - 09:16

You can see my pages www.eccehomo.cz where are the results I have. But all of them are not complete. I am looking for any other information on these hill climb and circuit races. For example, I am not absolutely sure, in which years the race was cancelled (1931,1932,1934,1935,1955,1956 - not racing by my information..., but for example in 1937 was raced or not??). Thank for any comment! :eek:

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#2 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 26 June 2001 - 11:53

Roman,
I had secretly hoped that you would be the person to supply the rest of the world with information about the Czech mountain races before WW II. If you don’t have it, who in your country would know? What about the library in Prague? Also, please correct any mistakes or omissions you find in the list below.

[b]Ecce Homo 7.750 km/4.816 mi[/b]

1905 May 18	Hildesheimer (Mercedes)

1921			 ? (Tatra T 3.6-liter)

1922			 ? (Tatra)

1923			 Vermirovsky (Tatra)

1924 Sep 21	Salzer (Mercedes)

1925 Sep 20	Kinsky (Steyr)

1926 Sep 12	Cenek Junek (Bugatti)

1927 Sep 28	Cenek Junek (Bugatti)

1928			 Bondy (Bugatti)

1929 Sep 22	Stuck (Austro Daimler)

1930 Sep 7	Vermirovsky (Tatra-Special)

1933 Sep 10	Pohl (Bugatti)

1936 Sep ?	Pohl (Bugatti)

1937 			 Preskowicz (Bugatti)


#3 Roman

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Posted 27 June 2001 - 05:05

I am trying to do what can I do... But it is very difficult! I have some results from 1905 (not from czech but from austrian press) the names of drivers could be bad written, because of bad read "schwabach". BTW unfortunately I did not find anybody, who has more info than me, but my info are too uncomplete.
1905 Vienna-Wroclaw-Wienna competition (Ecce Homo was a part of the second stage)

1. - Arnold Hildesheimer, Mercedes 60HP, Dr. Arnold, Hildesheimer, 4:57,000,1. 4-valve,1. +24HP
2. - Franz Quiedenus, Bock & Hollender 60HP, Fr. Quiedenus, 5:17,000, 2. 4-valve, 2. +24HP
3. - Karl Graf von Schönborn, Lohner Porsche 70HP, Karl Graf von Schönborn, 5:19,000, 3. 4-valve, 3. +24HP
4. - Jerie, Mercedes 45HP, Alb. Jerie, 6:00,000, 4. 4-valve, 4. +24HP
5. - Hieronimus, Spiz Wagen 24HP, M. Spiz, 6:15,000, 1. 4-valve, 1. 24HP
6. - Hugo Graf Boos-Balbed, Mercedes 40HP, Hugo Graf Boos Balbed, 6:16,000, 5. 4-valve, 5. +24HP
7. - Harnisch, Mercedes 24HP, Vela von Rarzag, 6:20,000, 2. 4-valve 2. 24HP
8. - Franz, Bock & Hollender 35HP, Bock & Hollender, 6:20,000, 6. 4-valve, 6. +24HP
9. - Ruzicela, Mercedes 28HP, Ruzicela 6:40,000, 7. 4-valve, 7. +24HP
10. - Egon Spanner, Mercedes 24HP, M. Spanner 7:02,000, 3. 4-valve, 3. 24HP
11. - Graf Rünigl, Peugeot 18HP, Graf Rünigl 7:36,000, 4. 4-valve, 4. 24HP
12. - Mittag, Baparb Clement 24HP, Fr. Hornlüb, 7:56,000, 5. 4-valve, 5. 24HP
13. - Hollender, Bock & Hollender 14HP, Bock & Hollender, 9:09,200, 1. 2-valve, 1. 2-val
14. - Zolberth, Oldsmobile 7HP, J.L. von Risch, 9:43,200, 1. 1-valve, 1. 1-val
15. - R. Sierde, Bock & Hollender 16HP, R. Sierde, 10:08,000, 6. 4-valve, 6. 24HP
16. - E. Hub, Maurer Union 6HP, Edgar Hub, 10:19,000, 2. 1-valve, 2. 1-val
17. - Rils, Opel Darracq 8HP, Robert Rils, 11:22,000, 3. 1-valve, 3. 1-val
18. - Löffler, Peugeot 12HP, Johann Löffler , 11:28,000, 2. 2-valve, 2. 2-val
19. - Bauer, Oldsmobile 7HP, J.L. von Risch, 11:42,000, 4. 1-valve, 4. 1-val
20. - Zeitlinger, Peugeot 10HP, Josef Zeitlinger, 11:45,000, 3. 2-valve 3. 2-val
21. - Trinlaud, Dürlopp 18HP, Fr. Trinlaud, 12:18,000, 7. 4-valve, 7. 24HP
22. - Bleiweis, Baby Peugeot 6HP, Brunnbauers, 16:10,000, 5. 1-valve, 5. 1-val
23. - Elbogen, Panhard 6HP, Heinrich Elbogen, 18:59,000, 4. 2-valve, 4. 2-val
-----
Some people in my country says, that the very first competition on the hill was taken in 1904, where Karl Graf von Schönberg won with Lohner Porsche 70HP Panhard, but it is probably bad information (?????)

To your data:

1921- Klabazna - Tatra
1922- Mittermüller - Tatra
1923-Sep 23, I have 1st - Rützler - Steyr (5:54,9), Vermirovsky (8:03,8) 1st in 1100cc car
1928-Sep 16
1930-Vermirovsky Tatra-Sport
1937-Sep 9, I have 1st Sojka, Bugatti, but as I said before - I am not sure, if this race was really raced. I have W. Proskowetz, not Preskowicz, have you some comment for 1937 race?

YOu have only the winners, or more finishers? I have really plenty of entries from that years, but not many finishers...

#4 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 27 June 2001 - 08:23

Originally posted by Roman
.....1937-Sep 9, I have 1st Sojka, Bugatti, but as I said before - I am not sure, if this race was really raced. I have W. Proskowetz, not Preskowicz, have you some comment for 1937 race?.....

Roman,
Are you sure the race took place on Sep 9, 1937? This happened to be a Thursday! Races had previously all taken place on a Sunday. How could the promoter have attracted a paying crowd on a Thursday? Any explanation? Could it be an error?

My only source for the 1937 Ecce Homo race is Die großen Rennjahre by Erwin Tragatsch on page 252 and this is all he wrote (in German) about this event:
“….Florian Schmidt won on his Bugatti T51A ahead of Bruno Sojka on Bugatti T37A. ……
“… Fastest man in the sports car class: Jan Kubicek on Bugatti, a T35B-(2261 cc, 8-cylinder), which once belonged to the racing stable of the Junek family.”

It seems to me that this race was staged as a national event and therefore might not have received any mention in the foreign press. Can you look at any old Newspapers in your Prague library or have they been lost in WW II?

All I know about the 1950 Ecce Homo race is that Bruno Sojka got killed during practice when his brakes failed.

#5 Roman

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Posted 27 June 2001 - 10:49

Oh, sorry the 1937 was held on Sep 5-1937! I will try do contact the Prague library. Thank you very much for the info from the book.

Bruno Sojka died in 1951 not 1950 where he won the race, see Ecce Homo 1950 if you change the adress year by year, you can see all my and only official results.

#6 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 28 June 2001 - 06:55

Roman,

Thanks for letting me know how to find your pages. As I now can see, you have assembled quite an impressive list and I am surprised that so much data exists or more appropriately that you were able to find all that stuff. The few items I know about Ecce Homo and which are missing from your list, I will let you know of course. Additionally I can supply several missing first names and nationalities of drivers. Are you interested in that also?

I am aware of the Austrian "Allgemeine Automobil Zeitung", which had reported about many races in your country because of the frequent participation of Austrian drivers and cars during the twenties. I don't have a complete run of old magazines and therefore there are gaps in my collection and knowledge.

For many years now I am working on a list of Mountain Climb Winners 1897-1949. This list shows only the winner of each event; otherwise such a project would become too large. Such a list requires an incredible amount of time and stamina. I have presently registered about 1400 events and have probably another 600 to go. I would appreciate if you will help me with the other Czechoslovakian races, which unfortunately I have mostly from German language magazines. Please correct mistakes, also in language and inform me about the missing ones. I only know the following:
  • Zbraslav-Jiloviste (Prague), 1908, 1911, 1913-1914, 1921-1931
  • Schober Mountain - Schöberberg (Rumburg or Prague?), 1922-1928
  • Brno-Sobisice, 1924-1929
  • Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad), 1924-1926
  • Eichwald-Zinnwald (Erzgebirgsrennen), 1924-1925
  • Pilsen-Tremosna, 1924
  • Lochotin-Tremosna, 1925
  • Reichenberg, 1925
  • Karlsbrunn, 1925
  • Keilbergrennen, 1925
  • Knoviz-Volsany (Knobis-Wolschau), 1926, 1928,
  • Olmütz Mt. Climb, 1926
  • Dobrany-Pilsen, 1926
  • Svaty Kopecek (Saint Hill), 1926-1927
  • Pürglitz Mt. Climb (Fort Pürglitz, Prague), 1929
  • Ploskovice-Ober-Rzepsch (Litomerice), 1931-1932
  • Czechoslovakian Mt. Race? Sep 10, 1936


#7 Roman

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Posted 28 June 2001 - 11:10

I am interested in everything you can have and I did not (nationality, spelling correction, car type, first name....)

I will try to help you with the hillclimb winners in my country.

Zbraslav-Jiloviste (Prague), 1908, 1911, 1913-1914, 1921-1931
Schober Mountain - Schöberberg (Rumburg or Prague?), 1922-1928
Brno-Sobisice, 1924-1929
Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad), 1924-1926
Eichwald-Zinnwald (Erzgebirgsrennen), 1924-1925 (?)
Pilsen-Tremosna, 1924 (nearby Plzen)
Lochotin-Tremosna, 1925
Reichenberg, 1925 (?)
Karlsbrunn, 1925 (? nearby Brno????)
Keilbergrennen, 1925 (?)
Knoviz-Volsany (Knobis-Wolschau), 1926, 1928, (?)
Olmütz Mt. Climb, 1926 (Olomouc, nearby Ecce Homo-Sternberk)
Dobrany-Pilsen, 1926 (nearby Plzen)
Svaty Kopecek (Saint Hill), 1926-1927 (nearby Olomouc!)
Pürglitz Mt. Climb (Fort Pürglitz, Prague), 1929
Ploskovice-Ober-Rzepsch (Litomerice), 1931-1932
Czechoslovakian Mt. Race? Sep 10, 1936 (Ecce Homo????)

I will try to find anything about the races, several of them I have never heard about....
I know that "Allgemeine Automobil Zeitung" wrote about Ecce Homo 1905 (what do you thing about the 1904 race there?). Have you some copy of the Allgemeine Automobil Zeitung or only some rewriting?

#8 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 29 June 2001 - 09:28

Originally posted by Roman
.....I know that "Allgemeine Automobil Zeitung" wrote about Ecce Homo 1905 (what do you thing about the 1904 race there?). Have you some copy of the Allgemeine Automobil Zeitung or only some rewriting?

Roman,
I made copies only of some pages from the AAZ (A) 1926-1927 and 1929-1937, when I was in the library of Das Deutsche Museum in München. I found there also some numbers (1929-1937) of A-Z Motorwelt, the magazine of the CAMS or Ceskoslovensky Automobilovy Klub pro Moravu a Slezsko (Czechoslovakian Automobile Club for Moravia and Silesia).

#9 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 01 July 2001 - 04:33

Roman,
Here is a bit additional information for 1921 and 1922. It is mixed with your information.

1st Ecce-Homo (Sternberg)
1921, month/day ?
1. Josef Klabazña (CS) (Tatra T 4-cyl., 3.6-liter) possibly racing car class, 7m45.6s
1. Josef Veřmiřovski (CS) (Tatra T 4-cyl., 3.6-liter) possibly sports car class, 8m13.2s
Other finishers: Jiro Tacheci (CS)
Source: Erwin Tragatsch: Die großen Rennjahre


2nd Ecce-Homo (Sternberg)
1922, month/day ?
1. R. Müttermüller (?) (Tatra) possibly racing car class, 6m52.6s
Other finishers: Jiro Tacheci (CS), Fritz Hückel (CS)
Source: Erwin Tragatsch: Das grosse Renn- und Sportwagenbuch , pg. 306
Erwin Tragatsch: Das große Rennfahrerbuch, pg. 169

#10 David McKinney

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Posted 01 July 2001 - 17:42

Hans/Roman:
Events not on your list:
1924 - Lochotin hillclimb at Pilsen
1927 - Knoviz-Volsany, and Heiligen
1932 - Sudeten (or in Germany?) - event held 28 August
1935 - Bohdance - or circuit event? (24 August); Jeneralke hillclimb
1936 - Mlada Boleclav - circuit event?
Regarding the location of Schöberberg - I have reference to it being in northern Bohemia (which is probably of no help)

#11 kabouter

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Posted 02 July 2001 - 00:11

Roman,

The driver who ended 5th in 1905 is presumably Otto Hieronimus, the most successful Austrian driver of the beginning of the century, who in 1905 rode various races for Spitz (not Spiz as in your result).
Braunbeck's Sportlexicon Automobilismus from 1910 states the following (but in German) about the Vienna-Wroclaw-Vienna of 1905:

The Austrian AC organised a long distance race Vienna-Wroclaw-Vienna from 17 to 20 May, in which 25 (note: not 26) competitors took part. The route was 817 km long. The program was:
1st day Vienna-Olmütz-Vienna (205.1 km)
2nd day Wroclaw (203.4 km)
3rd day Olmütz
4th day Vienna.

Result:
1st class (single-cylinder cars), Robert Milch (Opel 8 hp)
2nd class (two-cylinder cars), Jos. Zeitlinger (Peugeot 10 hp)
3rd class (multi-cylinder cars until 24 hp), Anton Spanner (Mercedes 24 hp)
4th class (multi-cylinder cars over 24 hp), Dr. A. Hildesheimer (Mercedes 60 hp).

On the 1st day a race over 1 km took place near Groß-Jedlersdorf. The winner was Count Schönberg with a Lohner-Porsche electrical car in 55 s. On the 2nd day a hill climb over 4 km with a height difference of 250 m took place on the Ecce Homo mountain near Sternberg (Olmütz). The winner was Dr. Hildesheimer with a 60 hp Mercedes in 4.57

I cannot find any mention of a 1904 Ecce Homo hill climb.

#12 Roman

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Posted 02 July 2001 - 07:05

kabouter - thank you very much for the correction!

Ad location:
Karlsbrunn = "Karlova Studanka" in Silezia (Moravia) or "Karle" in Bohemia
Eichwald-Zinnwald (Erzgebirgs)= Dubi-Cinovec (Krusne hory)
Keilberg = Klinovec?
Pürglitz = Krivoklat (castle)
Zinnwald = Cinovec
Reichenberg=Liberec
Schöber, Schöberberg = hill Stozec (662m), Luzicke hory

#13 Marco94

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Posted 02 July 2001 - 08:14

kabouter,

did already you write your introduction in the Introductions thread? A little explanation of who you are, where you have your bankaccount and what your PIN number is... Anyway, van harte welkom. Nice http 404 error message. :-)

Do you by any chance have some more data for me on the pre-1922 races on the Solitude near Stuttgart?

#14 Eugen

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Posted 02 July 2001 - 08:58

Some informations about Czechoslovak hillclimbs :

Schöber - nearby Rumburg

"Brno - Sobisice" - correctly Brno - Sobìšice (1924 -1929), 5 km N from Brno, now oldtimer hillclimb race

"Pilsen - Tremosna" and "Lochotin - Tremosna" is same race nearby Plzeò (german Pilsen)- correctly Lochotín - Tøemošná (1923-1925)
10 km N from Plzeò

"Knoviz-Volsany (Knobis-Wolschau), 1926, 1928" - correctly Knovíz - Olšany (near Slaný, 20 km NW from Prague)

"Karlsbrunn" - Karlova studánka 30 km W from Krnov in Silesia

Rudolf Mittermüller (CS) - Tatra works racer in early twenties

#15 Roman

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 07:04

after some time......

to Hans E. - you wrote "My only source for the 1937 Ecce Homo race is Die großen Rennjahre by Erwin Tragatsch on page 252 and this is all he wrote (in German) about this event:
“….Florian Schmidt won on his Bugatti T51A ahead of Bruno Sojka on Bugatti T37A. ……
“… Fastest man in the sports car class: Jan Kubicek on Bugatti, a T35B-(2261 cc, 8-cylinder), which once belonged to the racing stable of the Junek family.”


is it possible to make a scan copy of the article?????? THANKS A LOT!!!