43 replies to this topic

[RaggedEdge]

From http:www.autorace.com

Salo on Ferrari's resources
Mika Salo stood in for Michael Schumacher in the
99 season when Schumacher's injuries sustained
in the British GP prevented him from competing.

Mika Salo said that he is sure Ferrari will put all
their resources behind Michael Schumacher for
the championship title and according to Salo
there is no reason why Schumacher can't do it.

He explained: "He's got the biggest, the richest
and the best team 110% behind him, which is
something every driver would dream to have. He
just has to say what he wants and he will get it
immediately".

He in turn elaborated on Ferrari's resources when
he said: "I walked around the Ferrari factory and
it is just amazing. They have so much resources,
so much experience, it's all that together. They
are developing things now that they will probably
use in five years. They had things in the car
which some other teams have never heard of.
They have been running those kind of things for
five years already, that's how much they are
ahead. They have so much resources like their
own test circuit at Fiorano. They can just at any
time of the day - evening, 10 o'clock - roll out
the car and do a few laps and nobody will
complain about the noise".


Disclaimer for all paranoid air-heads there: There is no malicious intent behind this topic. Just plain boring cut-and-paste.

[The Swerve]

Salo thinks he'll be driving a Ferrari one day. I think he is mistaken.

[Czesc]

Well said Swerve.

I can't help wondering what McLaren's factory looks like. They've won three out of the last four championships and if Ferrari is as good as Salo claims, then McLaren has to be something out of this world.

[Todd]

Salo's frame of reference needs to be considered. He hasn't driven for McLaren, Williams, or even Benetton or Jordan. I'm a little surprised that Arrows or BAR didn't have an impressive enough facility to prepare Mika, but I think there can be no doubt that Lotus of '94 and Tyrrell's shell of the '90s wouldn't compare to Ferrari.

[mono-posto]

Salo has never driven for the above teams, but that is not to say that he has never visited thier factories. But of course he would not have seen any 'top-secret' developement work. I would be surprised if he even saw the 'really good' stuff at Ferrari either. After all they knew he was just a fill-in. Nope, there wasn't any, "Hey Mika, check out this new material. 10 time stonger than Carbon and 3 time lighter!! Cool huh?"

Hey, I would be impressed!;)

[f li]

Can we come back to this if MS loses? NB: I am not saying that he will. I am say "IF he loses with "GOD" on his side!

[RedFever]

I think Salo didn't say anything new. At the same time, I am sure Olivier Panis could say pretty much the same things about McLaren. These two teams are getting ahead of the competition in terms of capabilities. I think Williams might join in a year and Jaguar as well. But for now, it's silver & red.

[Rich]

"They can just at any
time of the day - evening, 10 o'clock - roll out the car and do a few laps and nobody will
complain about the noise".

Hmmm, last time they did that MS cricked his neck and was out for nearly a week. Looks like even Ferrari have their limits.

Salo's interview is very interesting, but it begs the obvious question - 'Yes Mika, but with all that super-duper stuff at your disposal, why were you almost stone last in Austria, lapped at Hungary, out of the points at Spa and running behind two SuperTec cars at Monza?'

[BlackCat]

Rich - you're right, but somehow i think it's better than Rubens will do...

[Rogue]

Hmmm, ot sure about him performing better than Rubens, but I agree with the rest that Ferrari is unlikely to have many more tricks and resources up their sleeves than the other major teams, aside of their own test track.



------------------
Rogue
f-1@ihug.com.au

[Dsilence]

Let's all hope that Frans MSH Notices that Ferrari (according to Salo) has things in cars no one else has ...

[Go wild Frans MSH]
.D-Silence.

[Todd]

The Ferrari engine looks tiny.



The shop with F399s in the bays.



Ferrari also uses computers!

McLaren on the other hand:



Employs the child rapist from the first "Dirty Hairy" movie...



and an old man with a hammer!

It is amazing what they achieve with fewer resources then a US prom committee!

[Grano]

Well there you have it Todd! All of MacLArens success is only due to the fantastic driving skills of Häkkinen

[BRG]

As I live near Woking, I can tell you that "Paragon" the new McLaren HQ currently under construction looks mighty impressive from the outside. It is an all new facility, built on a green field site (a former farm) and will have direct access to a small airfield (Fairoaks). I have also seen the Williams HQ at Grove, which is also very impressive but will be outshone by McLaren.

Frankly. either facility makes Ferrari's rather old buildings look pretty shabby. Of course, you can't really judge by outside appearances, but I think that we can assume that no expense will be spared inside McLaren either.

Anyway, it is on the results on the track that matter and we will see in a very short time who has done the best job. Sorry, but I think it will be McLaren again ( I am no McLaren fan, but you can't argue with their recent success).


------------------
BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[RedFever]

recent success is no indication of future success. Wasn't Williams dominating the 90s? where have they been in the past 2 years?

[Todd]

BRG,

I was kidding in my post. The way it turned out was determined by Ferrari giving Planet-F1 access to take some nice photos of their shop. The McLaren photos were the best ones from McLaren's own "shop tour" feature in their web site. It seems they have more to hide, or their paranoid. I guess I'd be paranoid too, if I were the type of slime that would do what they tried in Malaysia.

------------------
Forza Michael Schumacher,
Todd

[FordPrefect]

well really what else would you expect Salo to say.
Todd, that was quite funny

has anyone tried this, if you morph a head shot of Salo with DC you get a head that's ........ NORMAL.
I'm amazed.

with apologies to all FP

[jack and gilles]

Todd,

"I guess I'd be paranoid too, if I were the type of slime that would do what they tried in Malaysia".

While I don't want to dredge up the barge board debate again, I'm surprised your definition of slime includes someone who tries to ensure that everyone plays by the accepted set of rules.

[Todd]

J&J,

That isn't really what they tried now, is it? They didn't risk having Ferrari fix the problem and still beat them. They waited until they lost on the track to protest. If they'd pointed it out pre-race, Ferrari could have "play(ed) by the accepted set of rules." That is why they are slime.

[jack and gilles]

Todd,

I understand your position that the timing of the McLaren protest does not look good, but I belive they would have looked like the villain regardless of the timing. For example, had they protested before qualifying, they would have been accused of trying to steal a pole; had they protested after qualifying they would have been accused of trying to capture a pole they had lost on the track and so on. I don't see any way for them to register the complaint and not be sullied by it.

[Dazed and confused]

So Mclaren is to blame if Ferrari can't build cars that are legal? It's perfectly ok for Ferrari to build something illegal and then blame Mclaren for not noticing and protesting soon enough about it? Shoudln't Ferrari be the one to make sure that their cars are legal? Obviously they can't do it, so someone else has to.

[Dazed and confused]

I guess Ferrari has a permission to try make their cars go faster with illegal parts and if other teams don't accept it, it is their duty to leave a protest before the qualifying session. Othervise they are slime.

[jack and gilles]

Dazed and Confused,

I was not suggesting that McLaren is to blame for the fiasco, in fact quite the opposite. I was hoping to point out that there was no time during a GP weekend that they could register their complaint and not have their detractors claim that they had chosen an inappropriate time to do so.

[mono-posto]

About the disqualification, McLaren can't be blamed for when they noticed the 'illegal' bardge boards, but the timeing was convienent enough to 'secure' the championship.

And about predicting McLaren's future based upon their last two years....
A fund here in the states performed at 64% for 1997 which was very good for it's holdings. I dumped abunch of money into it, anticipating future success of the fund and in 1998 it barely returned 7%. There is no way to say,"Oh McLaren have to do it in 2000, because they did it the past two years in superior fashion." Don't put your money on it.

[BRG]

But which Fund would you put your money into if you had to choose between two - one that had been profitable for the last two years (McLaren) or one that had not (Ferrari)? If you reckon that you would give your money to the loser fund, just because they promise that THIS year will be the one, well. I'm glad your not my financial advisor.

Who won the last Grand Prix (a clue - the car wasn't red)?

------------------
BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[MattC]

Originally posted by BRG:
As I live near Woking, I can tell you that "Paragon" the new McLaren HQ currently under construction looks mighty impressive from the outside. It is an all new facility, built on a green field site (a former farm) and will have direct access to a small airfield (Fairoaks).

BRG:
Do you know if they are planning a proper test circuit on the Fairoaks, or will they just drive up and down the runways?!?

Any idea what public access will be like for their testing there? (I live just a few miles down the A320!)

BTW: It's a damn fine roundabout they've built, isn't it? Especially now that they've stopped covering it with mud every week.

[Smooth]

BRG: Who won the WCC last year, with their #1 driver on the bench? Pretty impressive considering the campaign was headed by one Eddie Irvine!! Put that in your pipe and smoke it. And as far as the investing, I would NEVER base my choice on past performance, or promises of future success. A simple bit of research will tell me where to 'gamble'. (That and an iron stomach )

[This message has been edited by Smooth (edited 03-08-2000).]

[BRG]

Smooth

Well, you do it your way, and I’ll do it mine - I know which of us will end up in the red! All I said was that McLaren won the last GP and the last two WDCs. If you want to stand statistics on their head in an attempt to prove that this means that Ferrari are the better bet for this year, good luck to you. I know where my money will be.

MattC

It is a very fine roundabout, isn't it. I have a friend who works at Fairoaks and there has apparently been a lot of behind the scenes talking between Ron Dennis and Alan Mann (who owns Fairoaks - and is another old racer of course if you remember the early racing Twincam Escorts). I think that McLaren will have a private taxiway and apron.

Ron surely wants to take over Fairoaks as a test facility (it has long been his ambition to match Ferrari in this respect) but I can’t see him getting planning permission, It is deep stockbroker belt country and the locals are pretty influential. Many already hate the noise from the airfield - I can’t imagine what they would do if someone started testing F1 cars at the end of their gardens! But if he does get his way, you bet your boots there won't be any access for us mere mortals.

Of course, McLaren bought Lydden Hill a few years ago as a new factory site and ready made test track, but I think that fell foul of the planners.

I am not very sympathetic to Ron and the boys. They used the military test track at Longcross some years ago to test transmissions. Jonathan Palmer ran an unsilenced McLaren up and down all day and got the locals hugely steamed up. Most never even knew the test track was there before. We used it for rallies and guess who got the fallout from McLaren’s days work? We now have stringent noise rules, frequent hassle from protesters and regular visits from local council environmental health officers. Gee, thanks a bunch, Ron!

As I said earlier, I am no McLaren fan, but I still reckon they’re the best bet for 2000. We’ll see on Sunday!!!


------------------
BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Smooth]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BRG:
Smooth

Well, you do it your way, and I’ll do it mine - I know which of us will end up in the red!

Really? Well how would you know? Pointless discussion, but the fact that you would even think to base an investment on past performance alone shows how small fry an invester you must be! (Of course, you imply that you put money on sport, so I guess question answered! )
And as far as 'stats', well you brought up last year!

My point was last years performance has weight, but is clearly no indication of future performance. By that theory, wouldn't it ALWAYS be the same team as WCC and WDC?

BTW: I am doing it my way, and there need be no doubting how well I am ending up!

[mono-posto]

If we were to continue with this investing analogy of racing, it could be said that banking on a team due to last years performances is rather silly. In the real world, we look at the long term. How has the fund (ie. team) done over the past 5 years, 10 years or since the incepetion of the fund (ie. team)? McLaren has statistacally been the best team over the past 5 and 10 year terms and both Ferrari and McLaren have impressive performances since their respective inceptions. But another thing investors (i.e. race fans) need to look at is something called 'trends'. And a true analytical prospectus of these two teams would yeild the logical conclusion that Ferrari is making greater improvements over McLaren as they (Ferrari) have continually improved over the past five years whereas McLaren has fluctuated more and really had two excellent "high-yeild" seasons. Ferrari seems to be a "fund" that is focused on slower long term growth and establishing a strong base and McLaren comes across as being a more 'volatile' market. They will have great 'high yeild' years and then poor returns. Ferrari is recuperating from a low point (1988) and has slowly been improving since. It would seem that this coming season they finally will at least match McLaren in terms of performance and will eventually exceed them. IMHO

------------------
"If I had to live my life over again, I'd be a plumber."
-Albert Einstien

[BRG]

So I was wrong when I said "I’m no McLaren fan, but you can’t argue with their recent success".

There are clearly those who can. Oh well, we all see things differently and time will tell who is right.


------------------
BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Yelnats]

The funds that Ferrari ahs at it's disposal is a massive advantage that can only be exploited by a supremely well organized and managed team. Since Ferrari's death they have suffered from a lack of direction compared to one man outfits like McLaren and Williams.

Decisions are much easier to arrive at when the boss is an experienced and powerfull individual. Of couse this guy can get it wrong on occaision (Williams!) and lose critical staff (Newey) but when he gets it right, look out! Managment by committe will give you a good product but it takes a strong smart guy at the helm to produce a dominant racecar.

Without Schumacher's efforts Ferrari would be running a poor second, not fighting for a title as they have for the last few years. It was Shumacher that deprived McLaren of several wins last year and without him Eddy would have 10 or 15 points further down the rankings.

Salo's observations only confirm that Ferrari like all top teams are developing along multiple routes to avoid missing a good idea. This year may prove to be Ferraris but if Schumacher dos'nt get the credit now, history will surely reward him later.

[Pacific]

And hopefully some day Mika Hakkinen also gets the credit that is due to him helping develop the McLaren, since he's been with the team since the beginning of 1993 as a test-driver and of course replaced Michael Andretti. Hakkinen is going into his 8th season of service with McLaren. Not too many guys stay with a team that long. It looks like Schumacher will end up with eight seasons at Ferrari, with his recent announcement.

I'd expect the teams with strong factory backing to all end up advanced: McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Jaguar, BAR, and Toyota. We'll see what happens with the other teams. They aren't quite as certain. If Benetton ends up with strong Renault backing. It'd be cool if Nissan (somewhat the same thing) became involved with Arrows in F1. Jordan will have to find somebody. There are rumors Jordan and Peugeot could end up together again, but Peugeot isn't like what BMW is with Williams or Honda with BAR. Prost is looking for a customer Mercedes it looks like, looks like Sauber with have Petronas for a while, and Minardi will have their Fondmetal engine. Those last three are probably in a bit of trouble, especially Minardi. The only hope is that some more manufacturers become involved in F1 like General Motors.

[magic]

[pRy]

I had the pleasure of seeing inside the Ferrari road car factory at Maranello just before Monza, and believe me, my oppinion of how well this team runs changed massively. They are professional, whilst at the same time, working under such an amazing name, that every single one of their employees loves their job, and is 110% professional about how they do their job. Deffinatly a magical place.

[HSJ]

They had things in the car
which some other teams have never heard of.
They have been running those kind of things for
five years already, that's how much they are
ahead. They have so much resources like their
own test circuit at Fiorano. They can just at any
time of the day - evening, 10 o'clock - roll out
the car and do a few laps and nobody will
complain about the noise

I'm hoping RD's Death Star will balance things out! Go McLaren!

[Smooth]

Originally posted by BRG
Smooth

Well, you do it your way, and I’ll do it mine - I know which of us will end up in the red! All I said was that McLaren won the last GP and the last two WDCs. If you want to stand statistics on their head in an attempt to prove that this means that Ferrari are the better bet for this year, good luck to you. I know where my money will be.


As I said earlier, I am no McLaren fan, but I still reckon they’re the best bet for 2000. We’ll see on Sunday!!!

So I was wrong when I said "I’m no McLaren fan, but you can’t argue with their recent success".

There are clearly those who can. Oh well, we all see things differently and time will tell who is right.

So how did that work out for ya?

[RaggedEdge]

What is this - revival of ancient threads day?

Anyway, Salo was on to something well over a year ago - Ferrari certainly had something up their sleeve in the development front.

Lets see if McLaren now finally having a wind tunnel will do as good for them as it did for Ferrari.

[Smooth]

Originally posted by RaggedEdge
Lets see if McLaren now finally having a wind tunnel will do as good for them as it did for Ferrari.

McLaren have had as much access to a wind tunnel as Ferrari have, it is of little relevance whether they own it or rent it. it is close enough to their HQ that it is not a huge problem as it is for Jaguar, who use a tunnel in California!

McLaren will, I think, not take a huge step back up next year, as they have announced that Ilmor will be introducing a new engine platform. To me that spells hand-grenade for at least the first half of the season. Combine that with a talented, but inexperienced driver in one of the seats, and I think Mac is on track for yet another rebuilding year. If the new engine pans out, and looks good for '03, they will be fighting not only BMW, but Renault and Ferrari. Long term, I am sure they will be fine, short term, I would not paint such a rosy picture.

[Todd]

I see that BRG never learns anything or tires from being wrong all of the time. Pitiful.

[RaggedEdge]

Originally posted by Smooth


McLaren have had as much access to a wind tunnel as Ferrari have, it is of little relevance whether they own it or rent it. it is close enough to their HQ that it is not a huge problem as it is for Jaguar, who use a tunnel in California!

I do not think this is true - I understand they have co-shared British Aerospace wind tunnel which:
a) certainly is not located at Woking
b) probably not designed to F1 at all rather than for aeroplane (parts)?
c) might not have been suitable for 100% scale models

Paragon has, I believe, already now running 100%-scale wind tunnel. As a consequence, Ferrari has been quite a bit advantaged over McLaren in aerodynamics over the last two years.

[BRG]

Smooth

It's a fair cop, I lost my life's savings! Can I hire you as my investment broker?

Oh, and Todd - I have learnt one thing - not to take any notice of the bilge that you trot out.

[Mr Melvin]

I think they used the Paragon wind tunnel for this years car. The trouble was that it was wrongly calibrated and thats why the McLaren has been a dog this year. Ferrari's new wind tunnel became operational in 1997, but the 2000 car was the first to be completely designed by it. Again it took a while to calibrate it correctly.

[sargon13]

McLaren on the other hand:

Employs the child rapist from the first "Dirty Hairy" movie...


and an old man with a hammer!