65 replies to this topic

[klipywitz]

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Originally posted by Jdcasas
Barrichello: 100 % right....

ahem! Ralf.... loser....

Jdcasas: 100 % right....

ahem! Ralf... still a really bad loser...

[BARnone]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chui
Now, what do I think will happen next year? I dunno. It depends on the cars. As for within Williams-BMW? Bayerische Motoren Werke, GmBH is STILL a Deutsche company - as is Ralf. The possibility of one driver receiving more favorable equipment is very real in ALL Grand Prix teams. Ralf is worth more to BMW, GmBH than Juan is... Never forget that. Given a choice they'd much rather Ralf to win than Juan just as Honda will do everything possible to assist Sato...

uh --- didn't Ralf give up his German citizenship to live in Austria?

(Sorry - I am not anti-Ralf - just couldn't resist).

BARnone.

[pole sitter]

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Originally posted by arnulfo182
Honestly I don't see why anybody likes Ralf....He doesn't have an aggressive driving style the fans like.

Not all fans like an agressive driving style. Fast and efficient driving does not necessarily mean aggressive. Is MS an aggresive driver? I wouldn't say so, still he has a lot of fans. He can be aggressive only when he needs to, which is a part of the package of a truly great driver.

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He's not a consistent winner,

By consistent you mean he does not win every race? Ralf's been consistently quick in the last 3 years with Williams and he's achieved a lot, struggling with often unreliable and inferior machinery. In recent races, he was outclassed by JPM. So what? Each driver has slumps in performance from time to time.
I'm sure he'll return to form next year.

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and he bends the rules even more than Michael.

Examples?

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If nothing else, Ralf is an idiot for thinking that he can use the press to rattle his teammate.

The mind games between teammates is an integral part of F1 life. Prost-Senna, Prost-Mansell, etc are recent examples. Ralf is not contractually obliged to love JPM.

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(and to the people who say overall Ralf had the edge throughout the year: face it, the pendulum of superiority has swung Monty's way and it looks like it's staying there)

Wait till next year. I'm not saying Ralf will destroy JPM, I'm saying that if Ralf returns to form (I'm sure he will), it's gonna be an interesting year.

[Chui]

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Originally posted by Toyoter


I don't think it's necessarily true that Ralf is worth more to BMW than Juan. JPM has become quite popular in the U.S., which is most likely BMW's largest market, not to mention all of South America. Ralf doesn't seem to be particularly popular anywhere. Even Berger has been spending a lot of time recently praising Juan. JPM is extremely charismatic and unquestionably much more marketable than the sour and sullen Ralf. If BMW is smart, they'll be praying for Juan to win the WDC next year.

NEVER underestimate ethnicity and nationality in this world. It's very naive to assume that it plays no role.

Why would Honda want a Japanese driver? Why would Frank like to have a British driver and BMW a German driver? You really think that Scuderia Ferrari wouldn't prefer that Michael was an Italian?

And while we're at it race also plays a great factor. Remember Willy T. Ribbs in F3000?

This world 'aint always pretty, but it's all we've got.

[BMW FW22]

Ok

in this case RB is right

but what about Australia (Frentzen) Brazil (RS) Malaisia (RS)

[Jaybee]

Wonder what Michael thought when he heard this ??

[Slyder]

He'll probably track our IPs down, find out where we live, go to our houses and kick our asses.

I don't think Ralf is a loser, He's a talented racer, the only thing I see with him is that he has tendencies to crack under pressure, just like Damon Hill was. He wants to prove himself that he's not Michaels baby brother, and unfortunately, he tries too much that he screws up.

I think that's always been the problem with brothers, anyone here that has brothers will maybe tell you the same.

[Rudolf]

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Originally posted by Slyder
He'll probably track our IPs down, find out where we live, go to our houses and kick our asses.

I don't think Ralf is a loser, He's a talented racer, the only thing I see with him is that he has tendencies to crack under pressure, just like Damon Hill was. He wants to prove himself that he's not Michaels baby brother, and unfortunately, he tries too much that he screws up.

I think that's always been the problem with brothers, anyone here that has brothers will maybe tell you the same.

I think the part about him trying to prove that he's not just Michael's little brother is very true but I think that it was more obvious at the beginning of '97. Now he seems to be more focused on himself but imagine being Michael's little brother?!?!

I think he is under a lot of pressure to perform and to come from under Michael's shaddow and this year he's takien a big step forward to proving himself even more, despite what anti-ralf people may say.

[baddog]

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Originally posted by Chui


You really think that Scuderia Ferrari wouldn't prefer that Michael was an Italian?

Actually ferrari have long resisted hiring italians.. Giancarlo Fisichella would be in the ferrari these last 2 years if he wasnt italian.

Shaun

[berge]

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Originally posted by baddog


Actually ferrari have long resisted hiring italians.. Giancarlo Fisichella would be in the ferrari these last 2 years if he wasnt italian.

Shaun

true:up:
something about "we already have enough pressure on us as it is, we don't need to increase it"

[klipywitz]

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Originally posted by berge


true:up:
something about "we already have enough pressure on us as it is, we don't need to increase it"

Ferrari has resisted hiring Italians because Enzo wanted all the attention for himself. If Ferrari won with an Italian driver, the driver would get all the glory in Italy -- and that is something Enzo wasnt prepared allow.

Nowadays, given the more internatoinal aspect of F1 (more than it used to be, although it was always international), I dont think that would be particularly true, though.

[baddog]

mmm kilpywits, I dont think its much of a secret that ferrari have definitely avoided italian drivers in RECENT years.. nothing to do with enzo who is long dead, much to do with a wish to not be swamped by newspaper insanity every weekend

Shaun

[Chui]

"Actually Ferrari have long resisted hiring Italians... Giancarlo Fisichella would be in the Ferrari these last 2 years if he wasn't Italian."

Shaun


Chalk and cheese, Shaun. Scuderia Ferrari, the Tifosi, the Italian media, the Vatican - and let's not forget the Venetian "Black" Nobility [ie, the Agnellis, Recanatis, etc] would love to have an Italian WDC. To suggest that Giancarlo Fisichella is the equal of Michael Schumacher is ludicrous. My point is that it would be a great boost to the national pride [yes, there is still such a thing] of all things Italian. If Fisichella was/were the true equal of Michael in every respect I'd fully expect that Ferrari would have hired him instead of Michael.

For some odd reason there is this incredible bond between Brazil and Italy as well. I know that the Fascists did make it to Brazil, though I primarily associate Germany and Brazil, even though the Italians were there as well. They are also predominately Catholic which, no doubt helps. There were rumors that Ayrton Senna was looking at Ferrari and they, him before his untimely death.

In today's "Political Correct" world it isn't deemed "proper" to speak in such a manner, but let's drop the naivete [an admirable trait for kids, puppies, kittens & the like, but not adults] and call a spade a spade. It's nationalistic pride on the line in any and everything that even hints at international competition. To deny this is to deny self. Of course, one hires drivers, team principles, etc from other nations. You wish to have the best you can find and when the best come from another part of the world or nation you take them with little regard to nationality, ethnicity or whatever. However, given the option of equal talents/skills, etc I'd be willing to wager that most people would choose "their own." Most corporations are no different I'd assume even though you find Europeans running some so-called American transnational corporations.

For Honda, I recall Lotus having to accept Saturo Nakajima and now Jordan feels compelled to accept Sato. I'm not at all surprised. The Germans are no better [or worse, depending on perspective] than the Japanese in this regard. Personally, I do not hold it against them. Despite all of the Socialist/Communist ideological aims of reducing the world's population to a blended morass of humanity, Nationalism, Ethnic pride does not really go away. It can merely be supressed. For a time.

Let us only hope that BMW, GmBH can live with Ralf and Juan settling this matter on the 17 tracks next year as opposed to political haranguing... especially if Juan begins to assert himself as successfully as he has the last seven races of this year. If he does then I cannot imagine them pulling strings, but watch the first five races or so. The ability for the car to receive signals from the motorhomes should not be discounted for any and all teams, either, despite it being illegal...

In summary: I wouldn't make any assumptions about "fairness" in heated international competition.

[Bee]

Watched the race again.
As for the second excursion into the chicane goes (after 130R), Ralf made a deft move when Rubens came up on the inside. I believe Ralf thought he had the line (same line he had used before) and Rubens thought he could dive inside. Although Ralf tried to close the door he felt it better to give way and cut across the chicane then cause a shunt. I have no doubt he was mad at Rubens. Shades of Prost/Senna at Suzuka in 1989, albeit without the shunt and push-start.

[padovani]

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Originally posted by Chui

(...)

For some odd reason there is this incredible bond between Brazil and Italy as well.

(...)

There was a lot of immigration from Italy to Brazil in the end of the 1800s and the early 1900. Lots of people here in Brazil have Italian roots. That's the case, for instance, of Rubens Barrichello (you can tell by his name). (And myself!)

One other thing that may contribute to a bond between brazilians and italians is that we tend to have a somewhat similar temper.

[klipywitz]

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Originally posted by baddog
mmm kilpywits, I dont think its much of a secret that ferrari have definitely avoided italian drivers in RECENT years.. nothing to do with enzo who is long dead, much to do with a wish to not be swamped by newspaper insanity every weekend

Shaun

Heyas, Shaun...

I do think Enzo set the pace -- as his family itself let show in a couple of occasions (will try to find the evidence when I have some more time).

But, hey, Alesi was brought in -- and I guess that was the closest they got. I think being swamped by newspaper insanity every weekend is part of being Italian.
There is always a tragedy going on according to the Italians... hehehe..
If that were the cause (which I think it is part of it), then why only worry about it now? I mean, the Italian press has always been a tad, lets say, eager?

Now, the reason for saying that Brazil and Italy are closely related is that the largest Italian colony outside Italy is in Brazil. (Funny enough, Brazil also has the largest Japanese colony outside Japan. The true melting pot, go figure) In fact, the two countries share many characteristics... Some Italian words were absorved into Portuguese, so was some food, Brazil is the largest Catholic country in the world, outgoing personalities, etc... There is your 30 seconds of useless trivia.