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A Letter from Dan Gurney


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#1 paulb

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Posted 02 November 2001 - 16:58

The topic came up in the PC about the correct designation for certain AAR Formula 1 cars. I inquired to AAR on the subject. Here is the response from Dan Gurney, himself:

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#2 Toyoter

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Posted 02 November 2001 - 17:14

That is a really cool letter. Very interesting stuff from one of my favorite racing icons. Thanks for posting that :D :up:

#3 rdrcr

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Posted 02 November 2001 - 17:50

Originally posted by paulb


Dan Gurney -

....I think I can call my car anything I want to no matter what other experts think and have conjured up through the years, and our official name is:

Eagle Gurney-Weslake V12 Formula 1 car.

That is the name that the fans know and understand....


Good of you to write and find out the real deal. Cool reply.

The man has spoken. So I guess that settles that.

#4 Wolf

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Posted 02 November 2001 - 19:34

Thanx for sharing, Paulb! :) BTW, I remember the issue of designation discussed in here some time ago, I can look it up if You want... For what is worth, my uneducated ™ guess would be T(itanium) 1(st) G(urney).

#5 Frank de Jong

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Posted 02 November 2001 - 20:02

Well, I'm shocked. Experts like us should know how to designate a car, and now Dan puts us on our feet again.
Still, the Climax 2.7 engined version is often referred to as T1F. :confused:
So the G probably doesn't stand for Gurney? :stoned:

#6 Don Capps

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Posted 02 November 2001 - 21:42

Although there are a number of contemporary sources for the T1F, T1G, and T2G designations of the various Eagles, it makes sense where the source for such information comes from if you ponder for a millisecond on the ordinal nature of the letters....;)

Also, I wonder if Bill Gavin -- I think he was doing the PR for AAR in the early days -- ever endorsed these notions about the Eagle designations? After all, on the cover of the June 1966 R&T it says: "EAGLE T2G."

Personally, a "Mark 1" -- F1 car, "Mark 2" -- Indy car, "Mark 3" -- F/A car, "Mark 4" -- Indy car, "Mark 5" -- F/A car really works better for me -- with the chassis numbers really coming into play here:

Mark 1: 101 - 104
Mark 2: 2xx
Mark 3: 3xx
Mark 4: 4xx
Mark 5: 501 - 509 (that no. I have seen)

Justin, where are you? Karl, Ditto! Dan, triple Ditto!!!

#7 Wing Ding

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Posted 03 November 2001 - 14:47

The Eagle Gurney-Weslake V12 Formula 1 Car...

Very cool response from Dan Gurney paulb... The "T1G" designation sure gets a lot of print not to have been accurate... It's crazy how things like that happen...

Has Dan Gurney written a book? If he hasn't... please tell him I for one would buy it...

#8 Jhope

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Posted 03 November 2001 - 20:38

Originally posted by paulb

We do not know and have long given up correcting such things, although we are not happy that the engine is often now called just a "Weslake" instead of a "Gurney-Weslake" which is analgous to calling the present Mecedes F1 engine an Ilmor.

... In any event, I think I can call my car anything I want to no matter what other experts think and have conjured up through the years, and our official name is:

Eagle Gurney-Weslake V12 Formula 1 car.

That is the name that the fans know and understand.


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#9 paulb

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Posted 04 November 2001 - 02:57

Nice pic :up: , Jhope, thanks.

#10 paulb

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Posted 06 November 2001 - 02:29

Bring this to the top so folks can see the original letter.

#11 Jhope

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Posted 06 November 2001 - 17:59

Thnaks for the original letter Paul. Much appreciated. I thought this thread would produce more responses. I'm stumped!:confused: I know little of Dan, and I hoped this would help me with gaining knowledge of him. Oh well.

#12 paulb

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Posted 07 November 2001 - 04:01

Jhope, that was my thinking as well. I figure that while the thread is being viewed, the letter says what it says with no grey area.

#13 rdrcr

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Posted 07 November 2001 - 04:33

Let me capsulate a bit from one of our esteemed residents here in Newport.

Daniel Sexton Gurney was born April 13, 1931, in Port Jefferson, Long Island, to John Gurney, a Metropolitan Opera star, and his wife Roma Sexton. Following high school, his family moved to Riverside, California, where Dan developed his driving skills by weaving through Southern California orange groves. He graduated from Menlo Junior college and served two years with the United States Army, most of that time overseas in the Korean War. After serving in the army, his racing career, which started with a Triumph TR2 in 1955, spanned 15 years. Then he bought a Porsche and won a couple of races in 1956. Two years later, he was driving on the Grand Prix circuit. He won the French Grand Prix in 1962 and finished in the top five in the World Driving Championship standings four times in five years.

Dan has had two very successful careers A) Racing Driver B) Racecar Manufacturer and Team Owner. During that time he became the top road racing star in America, as well as one of the most popular F1 Grand Prix drivers ever. Gurney etched himself a place in racing lore with exciting battles against drivers like Jimmy Clark, John Surtees, Jack Brabham, Graham Hill, Phil Hill and many others on the classic road courses of the Nuerburgring, the Targa Florio and Monte Carlo. He remains the only US citizen to win a Grand Prix in a car of his own construction.

With his success, the Dan Gurney fan club flourished, with a worldwide membership that included people from behind the Iron Curtain. In fact, at one point, Car and Driver magazine launched a "Dan Gurney for President" campaign that is periodically resurrected.

By the time he retired from active driving in 1970, Gurney had raced in 303 events in 20 countries with 25 different makes of cars winning 48 races and finishing on the podium an additional 41 times! Among his most important victories: 7 Formula One races (four Grand Prix World Championship events), 7 Indy Car races, 5 NASCAR Winston Cup stockcar races (all 500 mile races in Riverside, California), and two second place finishes at the "Indy 500". Additionally he captured wins in Trans-Am, Can-Am and Sports car races including the endurance classics at the Nuerburgring, Daytona, Sebring and Le Mans. He claimed 32 career pole positions and started on the front row of the grid an additional and astonishing 58 times! The many "races that got away", i.e. those that Dan was leading - often by a considerable margin - but could not finish due to mechanical problems, made him almost as famous and popular as the wins.

This versatile and winning record made Dan the first driver ever to win races in the four major categories of motorsports: Grand Prix, Indy Car, NASCAR and Sports Car. To this day he is one of only two drivers in history (the other being Mario Andretti) who have ever accomplished that.

While his second career as a race car manufacturer of the Eagles as well as team owner of AAR started while he was still actively driving, it went into full gear upon his retirement in 1970. At that time he bought out AAR co-founder Carroll Shelby and has been sole owner, chairman and CEO of the company ever since. AAR has been designing and manufacturing race cars with great success during the last 30 years, winning 8 Championships and capturing 78 victories and 83 pole positions, including the Indy 500 and the 12 hours of Sebring and 24 Hours of Daytona. 66 drivers from around the globe have been employed at AAR between the years 1965 and 2000, the last one being Dan's son Alexander Gurney who raced in the Atlantic Series.

Eagles bought by customers raced on the Indy circuit and Formula A/5000 circuit with great success, capturing numerous victories, most notably the Indy 500 twice with Bobby Unser in1968 and Gordon Johncock in 1973, plus 3 Championships in Indy Cars and Formula A.

A member of various Motorsports Halls of Fame, Gurney has been a pioneer of racing innovations. In 1971 he developed the Gurney Flap (wickerbill), an invention which has been adopted by the automobile racing and aviation industries throughout the world. He was the first race car driver to introduce a full-face helmet to Indy Car racing as well as Grand Prix racing. He was instrumental in launching the rear-engine revolution in Indianapolis in 1963. He is the only American in modern day Grand Prix racing who built and raced his own Formula One car to victory (1967 Grand Prix of Belgium). His exuberant gesture of spraying champagne into the crowd from the victory podium in Le Mans 30 years ago has been emulated worldwide by winners ever since.

One of the original founders of Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART), Gurney came up with the name and acronym. He was instrumental in bringing Monte Carlo-type street car racing to the United States and became a co-founder of the Long Beach Grand Prix in 1974 where he continued to serve on its Board of Directors for 24 years.

Gurney is no stranger to Hollywood either. A member of the Screen Actors Guild since 1965, Gurney has appeared in such motor racing films as 'Winning', 'A Man and a Woman', and 'Grand Prix'. His win of the 'Cannonball Run' across the United States in 1971 inspired his friend and co-pilot Brock Yates to write the screenplay for the 'Cannonball' movies. His long term relationship with Toyota started in 1982 when Dan was hired by the company to do TV commercials for the introduction of the Supra. This relationship has resulted in three Drivers and three Manufacturers championships for the auto maker.

An avid reader of political and military history, Gurney loves old movies, opera, cigars, travelling to historical places and riding motorcycles. Gurney and his wife, Evi, who was a junior executive in the public relations/press department of Porsche in Stuttgart and a well-known motorsports journalist in Germany during the sixties, have two sons. Dan has four grown children from his first marriage and three grandchildren. They live in Newport Beach, California.


His record in F1:

F1 starts: 86 (87 races)
Total points: 133.0
Points per start: 1.546 (Avg.)
First F1 entry: 05-07-1959 - Grand Prix of France
Last F1 entry: 18-07-1970 - Grand Prix of Great-Britain
First win: 08-07-1962 - Grand Prix of France
Last win: 18-06-1967 - Grand Prix of Belgium
First pole: 05-08-1962 - Grand Prix of Germany
Last pole: 14-06-1964 - Grand Prix of Belgium
First fastest lap: 28-12-1963 - Grand Prix of South-Africa
Last fastest lap: 06-08-1967 - Grand Prix of Germany
Wins: 4.651% (4)
Finishes on podium: 22.093% (19)
Finishes in points:36.047% (31)
Poles:3.488% (3)
Fastest laps:6.977% (6)
Retirements:50.000% (43)
Leading:38x in 16 GPs, 1554.71 km, 194 laps


1959:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of France 12 28 Scuderia Ferrari (Ferrari) Radiator
Grand Prix of Germany 2 3 3 16 Scuderia Ferrari (Ferrari)
Grand Prix of Portugal 3 6 5 16 Scuderia Ferrari (Ferrari)
Grand Prix of Italy 4 4 3 36 Scuderia Ferrari (Ferrari)

1960:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of Monte Carlo 14 12 24 Owen Racing Organisation (BRM) Suspension
Grand Prix of the Netherlands 6 2 15 Owen Racing Organisation (BRM) Accident
Grand Prix of Belgium 11 8 Owen Racing Organisation (BRM) Engine
Grand Prix of France 7 11 10 Owen Racing Organisation (BRM) Engine
Grand Prix of Great-Britain 10 6 8 5 Owen Racing Organisation (BRM)
Grand Prix of Portugal 2 5 24 Owen Racing Organisation (BRM) Engine
Grand Prix of the U.S.A. (Riverside) 3 7 16 Owen Racing Organisation (BRM) Overheated

1961:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of Monte Carlo 5 10 9 4 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of the Netherlands 10 6 13 7 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of Belgium 6 10 6 20 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of France 2 9 4 12 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of Great-Britain 7 12 10 10 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of Germany 7 7 7 9 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of Italy 2 12 7 46 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of the U.S.A. (Watkins Glen) 2 7 2 12 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)

1962:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of the Netherlands 8 10 12 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche) Gearbox
Grand Prix of Monte Carlo 5 4 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche) Accident
Grand Prix of Belgium 20 23 Autosport Team Wolfgang Seidel (Lotus) Did not start
Grand Prix of France 1 6 3 30 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of Great-Britain 9 6 8 8 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of Germany 3 1 3 7 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of Italy 13 7 9 16 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)
Grand Prix of the U.S.A. (Watkins Glen) 5 4 6 10 Porsche System Engineering (Porsche)

1963:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of Monte Carlo 6 24 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham) Differential
Grand Prix of Belgium 3 2 18 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of the Netherlands 2 14 18 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of France 5 3 18 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of Great-Britain 2 9 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham) Engine
Grand Prix of Germany 13 10 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham) Gearbox
Grand Prix of Italy 14 5 2 24 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of the U.S.A. (Watkins Glen) 6 6 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham) Chassis
Grand Prix of Mexico 6 4 6 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of South-Africa 2 3 1 9 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)

1964:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of Monte Carlo 5 3 16 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham) Gearbox
Grand Prix of the Netherlands 1 2 16 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of Belgium 6 1 1 15 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of France 1 2 5 22 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of Great-Britain 13 3 4 16 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of Germany 10 3 2 15 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of Austria 4 1 15 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham) Suspension
Grand Prix of Italy 10 2 2 16 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of the U.S.A. (Watkins Glen) 3 4 16 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham) Oil pressure
Grand Prix of Mexico 1 2 16 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)

1965:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of South-Africa 9 8 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham) Ignition
Grand Prix of Belgium 10 5 15 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of France 5 14 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham) Engine
Grand Prix of Great-Britain 6 7 7 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of the Netherlands 3 5 16 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of Germany 3 5 15 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of Italy 3 9 12 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of the U.S.A. (Watkins Glen) 2 8 8 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)
Grand Prix of Mexico 2 2 1 8 Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham)

1966:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of Belgium 15 27 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Not classified
Grand Prix of France 5 14 26 Anglo American Racers (Eagle)
Grand Prix of Great-Britain 3 16 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Engine
Grand Prix of the Netherlands 4 10 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Oil leak
Grand Prix of Germany 7 8 12 Anglo American Racers (Eagle)
Grand Prix of Italy 19 30 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Engine
Grand Prix of the U.S.A. (Watkins Glen) 14 15 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Clutch
Grand Prix of Mexico 5 9 15 Anglo American Racers (Eagle)

1967:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of South-Africa 11 9 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Suspension
Grand Prix of Monte Carlo 7 23 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Fuel pump
Grand Prix of the Netherlands 2 15 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Injection
Grand Prix of Belgium 1 2 1 36 Anglo American Racers (Eagle)
Grand Prix of France 3 9 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Fuel leak
Grand Prix of Great-Britain 5 9 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Clutch
Grand Prix of Germany 4 1 9 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Halfshaft
Grand Prix of Canada 3 5 10 Anglo American Racers (Eagle)
Grand Prix of Italy 5 7 8 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Engine
Grand Prix of the U.S.A. (Watkins Glen) 3 11 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Suspension
Grand Prix of Mexico 3 11 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Radiator

1968:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of South-Africa 12 6 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Oil leak
Grand Prix of Monte Carlo 16 19 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Engine
Grand Prix of the Netherlands 12 18 Motor Racing Developments/ Brabham Racing Organisation (Brabham) Throttle
Grand Prix of Great-Britain 6 13 24 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Fuel pump
Grand Prix of Germany 9 10 14 Anglo American Racers (Eagle)
Grand Prix of Italy 12 21 Anglo American Racers (Eagle) Engine
Grand Prix of Canada 4 11 Bruce McLaren Motor Racing (McLaren) Radiator
Grand Prix of the U.S.A. (Watkins Glen) 4 7 14 Bruce McLaren Motor Racing (McLaren)
Grand Prix of Mexico 5 14 Bruce McLaren Motor Racing (McLaren) Suspension

1970:
Grand-Prix Pos. Startgrid FL Startnr. Team Comment
Grand Prix of the Netherlands 19 32 Bruce McLaren Motor Racing (McLaren) Engine
Grand Prix of France 6 17 17 Bruce McLaren Motor Racing (McLaren)
Grand Prix of Great-Britain 11 10 Bruce McLaren Motor Racing (McLaren) Oil pressure


Others here will able to recall specific stories of his racing days I'm sure.


Regards -

rdrcr

#14 goGoGene

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Posted 07 November 2001 - 18:14

tanja in the AAR Westlake Eagle while at US GP 2000.

http://members.atlas...ges/M@eagle.htm

ggg

#15 karlcars

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Posted 08 November 2001 - 21:31

Dan hasn't written a book about his driving career yet, but I have.

#16 Allen Brown

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Posted 10 November 2001 - 10:40

I agree with Don that the early cars were referred to as Mark 1, Mark 2 etc and the chassis numbers do appear to have been derived from this: so 101, 102 etc for the Mk 1 1966 F1 car, 201, 202 etc for the Mk 2 1966 Indy car (I have seen those numbers somewhere - I will find the original comtemporary reference).

But this may just be a coincidence because I'm not sure what the Mk 3 Eagle was and I'm not sure which series of cars used 301, 302 numbering. I would guess 301, 302 etc were the 1967 Indy Eagles and 401, 402 etc were the 1968 Indy Eagles but that is just speculation. Anybody know anyone who owns a '66, '67 or '68 Indy Eagle? Anyone ever seen a 1960's Eagle chassis plate?

What I do know is that 501, 502 etc were the 1968-69 Formula A Eagles. An Autoweek advert on 28 Feb 1970 attempts to sell 503 and 504 and other, secondary, sources refer to numbers up to 512. Motor Sport records 511 for a FA Eagle at the 1971 Questor GP. But was the FA Eagle the Mk 5? I can't say for certain that I know.

The next chassis number I know for sure is 7201, the first 1972 Indy Eagle as quoted in Karlcars' 1976 "Gurney's Eagles". So, at some point, the chassis numbers had changed to use the year.

The only "Type number" quoted by Karlcars is the 755 1975 Formula 5000 Eagle.

Does anyone else have any real facts. What do we really know about Eagle Marks and chassis number, as opposed to what we think we know?

Come on, Karlcars, we need you!

Allen

#17 Allen Brown

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Posted 10 November 2001 - 11:03

Aha

Just found a reference to 401 being a 1968 Indy Eagle. So that fits:

CHUCK HAINES SENDS EAGLE & HOWMET TO GOODWOOD FESTIVAL
American presence at the Goodwood Festival June 11-12 is featured with a large group of Champ/Indy cars. Chuck is sending the first 1968 Eagle-built #40-1 and the spectacular ’67 Howmet Turbine Enduro Racer built by McKee.

from http://www.victoryla...ghts_Jun98.html

I wonder how much Chuck could add to this discussion?

Allen

#18 fines

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Posted 12 November 2001 - 19:48

I'm a little bit intrigued by the fact that Dan states that the F1 car(s) were built in Santa Ana. Then what the heck did they manufacture in Rye at all?



__________________
Here in the streets of American nights
Rise to the bottom of the meaning of life
Studied all the rules, and I want no part
But I let you in just to break this heart
Even though it was only one night
It was ****in' strange

New York City Cops - The Strokes (2001)

#19 Vrba

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Posted 12 November 2001 - 20:19

What Dan Gurney should have told us is what name was written in the footers (I don't know the English term for the table containing positions and other details about the drawing) of technical drawings for the car. I suppose there was some name that referred to whole project, i.g. the whole car.
His preferred name is OK because Eagle built only one type of F1 car. Had they built its successor, type numbers would have appeared very publicly :-)

Hrvoje

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#20 Wing Ding

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Posted 13 December 2001 - 05:19

Dan Gurney for President!

#21 Wing Ding

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Posted 13 December 2001 - 05:35

Originally posted by karlcars
Dan hasn't written a book about his driving career yet, but I have.


What's the name of the book and where is it available?

#22 Bernd

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Posted 13 December 2001 - 06:13

Dan Gurney : The Ultimate Racer
Karl Ludvigsen

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Available from most good Motorbook stores.

#23 BMW FW22

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Posted 13 December 2001 - 19:02

Gurney rulez

i remember he posted here some post :up:

#24 Wing Ding

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Posted 20 December 2001 - 15:43

Originally posted by Bernd
Dan Gurney : The Ultimate Racer
Karl Ludvigsen

Available from most good Motorbook stores.


I'm hoping this is one of my Christmas presents... :cool:

#25 Doug Nye

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Posted 26 February 2002 - 20:46

May I upset an apple cart? The recent thread about Eagle T1G, T2G, etc - and Dan's response...???
I visited the Gurney Weslake AAR facility at Rye in 1966 and we wrote the story up for 'Motor Racing' magazine in the UK - and then published a major feature complete with 1:24-scale drawings of the car - the rights for which cost our company a fortune, by the way - in our companion magazine 'Miniature Auto'. The designation of the car was that cited to us by Dan's people - though he was not present at the time of our visit. And I can tell you it was.... It was

Uuuuurrggghhh! Thud....

#26 Don Capps

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Posted 26 February 2002 - 21:01

I think Doug fell right about in the same place Karl did, perhaps a tad to the right....

....and near where the rest of us hit the floor when we read Dan's letter.



Doug, another heartfelt welcome to the Not-necessarily-so Forum....

#27 DEVO

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Posted 26 February 2002 - 21:26

Ok... being a little nit picky... anybody notice the two ways of using the number one? In Dan's official naming of the car... he uses a one ("1") and a two ("2") for twelve ("12") but then uses what looks like a lower case "L" for the one in Formula 1. Either that or it's another font.

I'm sure he meant "1" (one) and not l "L", why use 2 fonts for the number one? :)

BTW... it is pretty cool to see a letter from Dan Gurney.

#28 David McKinney

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Posted 26 February 2002 - 22:06

Doug, if you had 1:24 scale drawings that suggests to me the car was in Rye? And if so, doesn't that mean it was built in England? Or perhaps only the protoype was?

#29 Justin Gurney

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Posted 26 February 2002 - 22:25

no.

#30 Doug Nye

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Posted 26 February 2002 - 23:32

Errrrrummm - I'm just coming round - wha' happened???? I seem to remember a very shiny thing looked like a tube with a hole in the top... those funny spikey panel clips that sheet metal workers use - it's all hazy......uuuuuuuurrrrggghhh....

DCN

#31 bira

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Posted 26 February 2002 - 23:36

Originally posted by DEVO
Ok... being a little nit picky... anybody notice the two ways of using the number one? In Dan's official naming of the car... he uses a one ("1") and a two ("2") for twelve ("12") but then uses what looks like a lower case "L" for the one in Formula 1. Either that or it's another font.

I'm sure he meant "1" (one) and not l "L", why use 2 fonts for the number one? :)

BTW... it is pretty cool to see a letter from Dan Gurney.


it's not a lower case "L", it's a capital I. Like World War One is WWI and World War Two is WWII :)

#32 Doug Nye

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Posted 27 February 2002 - 11:05

Okay - not messing about now... Eagle designations.

In 1965 Dan commissioned former Lotus designer Len Terry to create his new team's F1 and Indy cars for him. Len had begun his career designing his own sports and Junior cars under the name 'Terrier'. He created the Gilby cars for Syd Greene and his son Keith. Though they were known publicly as 'Gilby', Len - being an orderly-minded kind of chap - gave them a 'Terrier' project number of his own.

Colin Chapman spotted real talent and engaged Len to make the stressed-skin hulled Lotus 25 truly raceworthy. They developed it ultimately into the Type 33. Len regarded those cars - and the 1965 Indy-winning Lotus 38 as designs somebody else had started - so he recalls today he didn't really give them 'Terrier' project numbers. Then Dan made him a good offer, and he went off to California for the AAR Eagle project(s).

Point one - to Len those initial series Eagles would be his design from the ground up - so when he drew them the F1 variant was in his work portfolio the 'Terrier T9'. Check Len's book but from memory he thinks this is correct...

His original drawings for the project would have adopted his normal working procedure, based upon that used by Ford, in which each drawing identification serial would have been prefaced by 'Car model', then a letter to indicate which area of the car the drawing featured - as in 'A' chassis - 'B'body - 'C' front suspension - 'D' rear suspension, etc - and then a basically 3-digit serial to specify the individual drawing. Thus the very first chassis drawing for example would have been serialled '(Car Model code)-A-001'.

The car model code that Len chose - repeat, that Len chose - was 'T' for 'Terry', '1' for first version, and 'G' for Gurney - Eagle T1G - Indy version = T2G.

It would probably have been AAR F1 team manager Bill Dunne who told us about this being the car's type number - a la Lotus 25 or BRM P83 - in 1966.

The monocoques were fabricated solely in California - absolutely not in the UK - with ex-Team Lotus sheet metal man John Lambert amongst the build team. The Rye facility in England was little more than a race preparation shop with Weslake's adjoining engine shop not really giving Dan the tools this superb driver deserved.

Dan probably won't accept the above - but it's what we were told at the time - and what Len has just confirmed to me this bright and sunny morning...

Sorry about winding you all up previously...

DCN

#33 Don Capps

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Posted 27 February 2002 - 14:27

Doug, Some many months ago, that is what a number of us had surmised as the situation -- Len Terry having his own nomenclature for the cars while the team referring to them by the official team designation. However, it is always good to hear from Dan, Len, and you and others on things like this....

#34 DEVO

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Posted 27 February 2002 - 17:15

bira, Ok I thought it could have been an "I" as well.... still same question. :)

#35 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 August 2002 - 00:39

As featured on the cover of R & T...

...note the designation down the bottom...

Posted Image

Scan courtesy of Bernd...

#36 Wolf

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Posted 15 August 2002 - 01:19

Ray, the link doesn't work... And it is the error in uppercase/lowercase letters (extension being in lowercase letters) : http://members.atlas...gleR&Tcover.jpg :) Thnx for sharing it.

#37 Bernd

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Posted 15 August 2002 - 01:43

Just to clear things up I didn't scan that myself. I just found it on the web somewhere.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that Dan as he says "has no idea" where the designation came from. It's been called that by the media ever since the cars were debuted.

#38 bournenville

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Posted 15 August 2002 - 02:03

Dan,perhaps you didnt care at that moment about chassis denominations,you only cared about Winning...and you did it in the most wonderful,majestic,daunting,challenging circuit,SPA.
You are a true number one.Thank You!

Ignacio

#39 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 August 2002 - 03:01

Originally posted by Wolf
Ray, the link doesn't work... And it is the error in uppercase/lowercase letters (extension being in lowercase letters) : Posted Image :) Thnx for sharing it.


Beats me, Wolfie... it's all right now, and it still doesn't come up!

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#40 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 September 2002 - 00:59

Just because I found it and thought I'd share...

And maybe because we recently had that question from Adam Joyce about Len Terry...

Posted Image

#41 Mark Beckman

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Posted 13 September 2002 - 03:01

No that cant be right, its called a TG1 and I should know cause I'm a pimple faced 19 year old who wasnt even alive then.

Dan Gurney ? Who's he ? Isnt he that Guy running for President ?? :rotfl:


Posted Image

Posted Image

#42 paulb

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Posted 13 September 2002 - 03:47

Great images, Mark!

I wish I was old enough then to be a part of that club.

BTW all, at the end of this month, I'm going to lose the webspace I have the letter posted at. I will eventually put it on my Atlas space but I'm a little cyber-challenged to post it there. So if anyone wants an electronic copy of the letter, you can of course grab it from here, or I can send the TIFF file or I can get a color copy made and mail it.

Thanks, TNFer's for all the great info on the Eagle Gurney-Weslake V12 Titanium Formula 1 Grand Prix car.

#43 fines

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 14:37

Thankfully for us historians, when filing his entries for the 1966 Indianapolis 500, Mr. Gurney was considerate enough to tag chassis numbers to his entries, and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway was considerate enough to give this info out along with a list of entries for the race, and by another good stroke of fortune one newspaper, the Kokomo Morning Times of Kokomo, Indiana (remember, the Beach Boys hit? :D) was considerate enough to print a copy of this entry list, together with the Eagle chassis information, in its April 19 issue.

Sadly, though, Messrs Weinberger & Wilseck, Hopkins and Klug were not nearly as considerate as that and obliterated that very piece of information in their respective entries, thereby obfuscating the issue of AAR's initial production run of Indy Cars to the extent of 50 %! :mad: Since, according to the statutes of the Unanimous Historians (UH) convention in 1967 (anonymously ratified in 2008), all significant historical information that can't be authenticated to more than half its original volume [i.e. 51 %, Ed.] has to be considered incomplete and, henceforth, redundant, I am hereby released from the obligation to post said information here. :p









































JOKE! :D

Joe Leonard, Eagle #202
Lloyd Ruby, Eagle #204
N. N., Lotus 38/3
Dan Gurney, Eagle #201

[bow]Thanks for listening![/bow]

#44 M Needforspeed

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 14:01

Originally posted by fines
Thankfully for us historians, when filing his entries for the 1966 Indianapolis 500, Mr. Gurney was considerate enough to tag chassis numbers to his entries, and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway was considerate enough to give this info out along with a list of entries for the race, and by another good stroke of fortune one newspaper, the Kokomo Morning Times of Kokomo, Indiana (remember, the Beach Boys hit? :D) was considerate enough to print a copy of this entry list, together with the Eagle chassis information, in its April 19 issue.

Sadly, though, Messrs Weinberger & Wilseck, Hopkins and Klug were not nearly as considerate as that and obliterated that very piece of information in their respective entries, thereby obfuscating the issue of AAR's initial production run of Indy Cars to the extent of 50 %! :mad: Since, according to the statutes of the Unanimous Historians (UH) convention in 1967 (anonymously ratified in 2008), all significant historical information that can't be authenticated to more than half its original volume [i.e. 51 %, Ed.] has to be considered incomplete and, henceforth, redundant, I am hereby released from the obligation to post said information here. :p


Michael ,


Zimmerman book on the Eagle racing cars has been released too from the obligation to FIND the information....  ;)

Michel

#45 aaron

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 06:04

I think I can help a little with the Indy chassis numbers. I own 2 of these cars and they have the priginal tags. Also several current pwners , through their own investigations, traced accurate histories and between us we came up with a pretty accurate history. I don't know how to attach the spreadsheet but anyone who wants it can email me at alewis@rovercoaches.com.au. Regards, Aaron.