389 replies to this topic

[BRG]

There is a photo in Peter Robinson's MN Championship book for the year(s?) the IoW Rally was MN Ch (1965?) of a Cortina GT ascending the stage with several other competitors including Martin Holmes walking along the promenade to the stage start in the background.

[Sterzo]

I hope this is an appropriate place to post. Each day the on-line Times includes a news story "From the Archive", one hundred years ago today. Today's is:

 

'From The Times: August 31, 1922

A Motor Speed Carnival took place at Southsea last week. It attracted the most powerful racing cars in the kingdom, including several that have made recent motoring history in the Grand Prix, Tourist Trophy and Brooklands races.'

 

It tells us amongst other things that:

 

'Another correspondent declares that the cars were rushing along at more than 80 miles an hour. It should be noted, however, that the top speed touched at the Carnival proper was 73mph, which was done by Count Zborowski’s well-known 300hp “Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang”.'

 

Here's a link to the page, though you won't see much without an account, and I'd better not breach copyright by reproducing more.

 

https://www.thetimes...roads-8gjmbjmw8

[Vitesse2]

https://archive.ph/bzNRI

 

It was incidents like that - plus some unsanctioned motorcycle racing on country roads - which led to the ban on events on public roads. Ironically, Sir William Joynson-Hicks, the Home Secretary to whose lot it fell to 'persuade' the RAC that public road events could no longer be sanctioned and who issued a memo to that effect to all Chief Constables at around the time of the Kop accident in 1925, had been Chief Executive of first the Motor Union and then - after their merger - of the Automobile Association, only relinquishing the post in 1922.

[arttidesco]

 

In the commentary mention is made of the competitors arriving in Cowes 'with 600 miles behind them' before the first stage, can anyone enlighten me as to what the purpose of the 600 miles might have been ?

 

Also did anyone notice the rather speedy cyclist at 44 secs ?

[RS2000]

In the commentary mention is made of the competitors arriving in Cowes 'with 600 miles behind them' before the first stage, can anyone enlighten me as to what the purpose of the 600 miles might have been ?

 

Also did anyone notice the rather speedy cyclist at 44 secs ?

 It says test not stage. Until the RAC Rally had special stages in 1960, virtually all UK rallies involved aimlessly driving a route around the country for enormous distances to little effect with a few very short "tests" added in. A relic of pre-war "Reliability Trials" when few cars could last such distances. 

[arttidesco]

 It says test not stage. Until the RAC Rally had special stages in 1960, virtually all UK rallies involved aimlessly driving a route around the country for enormous distances to little effect with a few very short "tests" added in. A relic of pre-war "Reliability Trials" when few cars could last such distances. 

 

Thanks BRG so was this the fore runner of the RAC as we used to know it ?

[BRG]

Thanks BRG so was this the fore runner of the RAC as we used to know it ?

It was rs2000 you need to thank, but just to say that the RAC Rally dates from 1932 so long predated this IoW Rally.  Back then it was a very different beast to the one we knew in the 1970 onwards (until its recent demise), more akin to the historic endurance rallies of today, with regularity sections and driving tests.  

 

As a side point of interest, the Island Stages, a successor to the  IoW Rally was run again a few days ago, after a lay-off of some 30 years.

[arttidesco]

It was rs2000 you need to thank, but just to say that the RAC Rally dates from 1932 so long predated this IoW Rally.  Back then it was a very different beast to the one we knew in the 1970 onwards (until its recent demise), more akin to the historic endurance rallies of today, with regularity sections and driving tests.  

 

As a side point of interest, the Island Stages, a successor to the  IoW Rally was run again a few days ago, after a lay-off of some 30 years.

 

Indeed thanks RS2000 

[Steve99]

For the record, Louth Rotary Club is holding a vintage hill climb event on closed roads at Scamblesby, Lincs, this Saturday, just off the A153 and close to where such an event was held on Caulkwell Hill in, I think, 1906. Should be fun!

[Rupertlt1]

I recently visited here — Kinsham Raceway, kart track near Presteigne.

 

RGDS RLT

[bradbury west]

Back in post 334 D Richmond is probably the celebrated engineer Daniel Richmond of Downton Engineering fame.

Roger Lund

[john aston]

Jonathan Meades, a writer I enjoy immensely  , grew up in Salisbury and his family knew the Richmonds well . Meades ' An Encylopedia  of Myself' describes Daniel as a benign soul (if promiscuously bisexual and an alcoholic) , but his Ferrari driving wife  Bunty was reportedly wildly eccentric and reference is made to the 'palaeolithic    crudeness of her demeanour'. 

[Rupertlt1]

HARROW C.C.

Driving Tests, Heston, 25th August 1957

Class A: 1. P. B. Jones (Anglia); 2. A. B. Holt (A35); 3. J. Wolchover (Vauxhall Victor),

Class B: 1. A. C. Westwood (Dellow); 2. Miss Daphne Freeman (Wilson Ford Special); 3. R. G. Forster (M.G. TD),

Class C: 1. A. F. Bray (T.E.S.T. 1); 2. L. N. Needham (TR3); 3. S. M. Actman (TR2).

 

What do we know about the Wilson Ford Special, registration LUM 290? Also seen at Rivenhall Airfield, near Witham, Essex, 16th June 1957.

 

This post points to a sprint being held at Heston Aerodrome?

 

https://forums.autos...r/#entry7156088

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 27 January 2023 - 12:17.

[Rupertlt1]

Hoton Sprint, Loughborough College M.C., Sunday 7 October 1951

"being part of an old aerodrome"

Autocar, 12 October 1951, Page 1250

 

RGDS RLT

[Vitesse2]

Logically, that would be RAF Wymeswold, although it was still operational at that time.

[Rupertlt1]

Also scheduled: Hoton Speed Trial, Loughborough College M.C., 18 April 1952

 

RGDS RLT

[pete53]

I haven't seen any mention of Maghaberry airfield circuit in Northern Ireland, which was used for motor bike racing in the 60s through to the early 70s.

[Rupertlt1]

As a preliminary to the Circuit of lreland at

Easter, the Armagh and D.M.C. will be

holding a trial on 2nd April, with the

start at Moira. Co. Down. and with

driving tests at Maghaberry airfield.

Autosport, 25 March 1955, Page 374

 

RGDS RLT

[Rupertlt1]

TARRANT RUSHTON SPRINT

We are advised by the 750 M.C. that

in the Tarrant Rushton Meeting on

26th October, Classes 9 and 10 were

combined, the results being: 1, G.

Parker (3,442 S. Jaguara), 21.40 secs. 2,

D. H. Sessions (2,443 Healey), 22.09

secs; 3, G. Shea-Simonds (3,917 Allard),

22.31 secs. In Class 4, third place goes

to C. Wick (Jaguar Mk. VII), whose run

occupied 24.88 secs.

Autosport, 7 November 1952, Page 589

 

RGDS RLT

[Vitesse2]

Tarrant Rushton is a former RAF base used for glider operations in WW2. There are some references to it having been used for supply drops to SOE and SIS, but I doubt that's correct - alphabetically it's very close to both Tangmere and Tempsford, which were both used by Special Duties squadrons, so maybe some sort of misreading?

 

Operational base for Flight Refuelling Ltd for many years from 1948 onwards, as well as for civilian gliders and light aircraft. Closed 1980. Used several times for sprints and recently proposed as a venue for closed circuit bicycle road racing.

 

https://iamapolarbea...shton-airfield/

[Rupertlt1]

Tarrant Rushton is a former RAF base used for glider operations in WW2. There are some references to it having been used for supply drops to SOE and SIS, but I doubt that's correct - alphabetically it's very close to both Tangmere and Tempsford, which were both used by Special Duties squadrons, so maybe some sort of misreading?

 

Operational base for Flight Refuelling Ltd for many years from 1948 onwards, as well as for civilian gliders and light aircraft. Closed 1980. Used several times for sprints and recently proposed as a venue for closed circuit bicycle road racing.

 

https://iamapolarbea...shton-airfield/

 

Plaque at Tarrant Rushton:

 

Dedicated to the gallant crew of Halifax G-George

from 298 Squadron which successfully towed

5 Gliders with their brave soldiers to Normandy and

Arnhem. Also, 15 Special Operations Executive and

Special Air Service missions to France, Holland and

Luxembourg during 1944.

Squadron Leader G. H. 'Buster' Briggs, Sergeant A. E. Law

Pilot Officer H. D. Pope, Flying Officer Robert Searles

Flying Officer Bob Seymour and

Flying Officer Gilbert Tonge. 

 

(I may have some more evidence. I have visited there on a number of occasions. The gliders were towed from Tarrant Rushton, carrying the troops which captured the Pegasus Bridge in Normandy on 'D' Day.)

 

Keywords: Handley Page

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 26 September 2023 - 11:26.

[Vitesse2]

I stand corrected! https://en.wikipedia...98_Squadron_RAF

[Rupertlt1]

Vitesse2

I've got a bee in my bonnet about Tarrant Rushton. It was the launchpad for the 'D' Day invasion, visited by both Eisenhower and Montgomery. If you go there you will find little to enlighten you. Contrast this with the museum and attractions at the Pegasus Bridge in Normandy.

From a motor sport perspective both Graham Hill and Hazel Chapman competed there. See above.

We are poor at preserving our history.

The loss of the runway at Tangmere is also grievous, although there is a splendid museum. Of course they still fly at Goodwood, formerly RAF Westhampnett, and I can see the Spitfires flying regularly from my house.

 

RGDS RLT

[john aston]

You  are  right about preserving our history . In my part of Yorkshire we are blessed with medieval abbeys , the occasional castle and some lovely stately houses. All deserve their  brown tourist signs and are beautifully preserved.

 

I'm also surrounded by WW2 airfields and the infrastructure of most- Nissen huts , hangars , runways , control towers, pill boxes  -   is rotting away and soon will be forgotten. I am not a fan of the country's  obsession of reliving past wars in print and film , but I would like to see more recognition of the hastily built air fields from where so many young men took their last journey , including my uncle . 

 

In my area there is RAF Leeming, Topcliffe , Dishforth, Catterick, Skipton on Swale, Croft , Tholthorpe , Clifton Moor, Dalton , Linton on Ouse , Elvington, Melbourne , Pocklington, Church Fenton   as well as some I've forgotten. We have the remains of an Italian PoW camp near Thirsk too, slowly falling down in empty fields.     

 

Visitor to Croft race circuit can still see plenty of WW2 era concrete(always in a distinctive light brown) , and also the remains of what  I think is an air raid shelter near the chicane .     

[Rupertlt1]

Hutton Cranswick Airfield sprint, East Yorkshire Car Club, Sunday 21 June 1964

RGDS RLT

[Fred Gallagher]

As a preliminary to the Circuit of lreland at

Easter, the Armagh and D.M.C. will be

holding a trial on 2nd April, with the

start at Moira. Co. Down. and with

driving tests at Maghaberry airfield.

Autosport, 25 March 1955, Page 374

 

RGDS RLT

Only a year and a bit late to this discussion but driving tests, as we knew them then, at Maghabbery were a big part of my life in motor sport in the late 60s and early 70s.

[Rupertlt1]

Chedworth Airfield speed trial, Cheltenham M.C., Whit-Saturday 1951

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 02 December 2024 - 10:24.

[BRG]

Chedworth?   That's interesting, as we used to regularly run around and through the old airfield on the public roads on night rallies.  It was a favourite section on Cotswolds rallies.  I often wondered why it was never used for motor-sport, but I was not looking far enough back!

[Rupertlt1]

Southsea M.C. Windmill Hill Closed Speed Hill-Climb, 24 May 1947

Said above to be near Horndean?

For report see Motor Sport, July 1947, Page 188

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 10 December 2024 - 05:38.

[BRG]

Southsea M.C. Windmill Hill Closed Speed Hill-Climb, 24 May 1947

Said above to be near Horndean?

For report see Motor Sport, July 1947, Page 188

RGDS RLT

There is a windmill at Chalton, just to the east off the A3 Portsmouth Road near Clanfield (a little north of Horndean).  It is reached by a dead end road from the A3, which may be private and so could have been used?

[Rupertlt1]

North Staffs M.C. Speed Trials, Peplow Airfield, Childs Ercall, near Market Drayton. — 3rd May 1952, Start 11.30 am.

 

See also Attingham: https://forums.autos...-5#entry8569513

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 03 January 2025 - 14:00.

[Rupertlt1]

1922: "The hill climb at Hyden Hill and the speed trial at Basing Park"

Petersfield and District Motor Cycle and Light Car Club.

Hyden Hill, East Meon; Basing Park, Privett, Hampshire.

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 13 January 2025 - 15:42.

[BRG]

Would the "Hyden Hill" course have been East Meon Road from Clanfield up to Hyden Cross?   Or alternatively up Hyden Farm Lane from the Bat and Ball pub at Hambledon, scene of one of the oldest cricket clubs in the world.

 

At the top was Leydene House, which became HMS Mercury during WW" and remained a naval training base until 1993.  

[Rupertlt1]

Hyden Hill Climb

30 July 1922: measured mile

29 April 1923: "a distance of just beyond half a mile"

12 August 1923: mile "bad bend at the top"

3 May 1924: measured half-mile (Portsmouth and District Motor Cycle and Light Car Club.)

22 June 1924: two-fifths of a mile

Mostly motorcycles, some cars.

No sign of these events in Sprint by T. R. Nicholson.

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 14 January 2025 - 00:00.

[Bloggsworth]

Imay have missed seeing them, but Corby and Scarborough.

[BRG]

Hyden Hill Climb

30 July 1922: measured mile

29 April 1923: "a distance of just beyond half a mile"

12 August 1923: mile "bad bend at the top"

3 May 1924: measured half-mile (Portsmouth and District Motor Cycle and Light Car Club.)

22 June 1924: two-fifths of a mile

Not sure that helps much.  Neither East Meon Road nor Hyden Farm Lane has a "bad bend at the top" as far as I can see from the map unless the route used the Hyden Cross junction.  Both could host courses of those distances.

[Geoff E]

Hyden Hill Climb

 

The Daily Mirror in June 1908 has a photo from an event in which the participants were Naval Officers.

In the photo was a Lt Ballantyne on a 3.5 h.p Triumph, having exited a right-hand bend.

 

An event in July 1912, Portsmouth & District Motor Club. Fastest time - JG Kimber.

 

Also an event in Sept 1913, Southampton & District Motor Club. (the event included sidecars and cycle-cars)

Edited by Geoff E, 14 January 2025 - 15:05.

[Vitesse2]

Given the apparent preponderance of bikes, perhaps these were events held under ACU sanction rather than RAC? AFAIK Nicholson only used motoring magazines for his research, so the two-wheel magazines might have covered them - he also ignored some climbs which had peculiar (in the sense of unique) rules. I investigated one a little while back on Snake Hill near Glossop in 1906, which was run to a very weird handicap formula.

 

From the Manchester Courier - Monday 10 September 1906

MANCHESTER MOTOR CLUB.
HILL CLIMBING COMPETITION.

The Manchester Motor Club decided their hill climbing contest on the Snake-hill, Glossop, on Saturday. It was carried out on somewhat different lines to the general body of such competitions, and was not a mere test of speed. A handicapping formula had been adopted, which had for its basis the weight of the car and its passengers; horse power and time; diameters and number of cylinders, all having values which were considered and calculations made conjunction with the time test. Whether such a formula is popular is open to question, many ot the prominent personages in the motor world preferring the tost of speed alone. In this particular instance, however, it gave great satisfaction, and will be repeated. All cars were to be fully equipped petrol touring cars with passengers aboard varying from one to three, according to the full seating capacity of the car. The competition was arranged in five classes, the value of the car determining same. The values were from £200 to £750 and over.

Not the first at Snake Hill, but none of them are in Nicholson's book. If he knew of them he'd probably have dismissed them as gymkhanas.

[Rupertlt1]

7 May 1950:

Up to 1,300 c.c. sports

1st: L. J. Woods (1,087-M.G.) 1min 18.8 sec

2nd: A. C. B. Chapman (1,172-Lotus) 1min 20.6 sec

Gravesend Airport, Speed Trials, Maidstone & Mid-Kent Motor Club, Sunday 1 October 1950

22 September 1951

14 September 1952

I've been trying to identify a photograph of Allard-Mercury, KLD 5, and the distinctive four-storey control tower at Gravesend Airport gave it away.

I think the driver is Tony Rumfitt but when? Ex-Imhof.

Rumfitt appeared on the cover of Autosport, 29 September 1950, in Allard, JYH 613:

https://www.motorspo...arch=1018188458  

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 26 January 2025 - 08:08.

[Macca]

The Daily Mirror in June 1908 has a photo from an event in which the participants were Naval Officers.
In the photo was a Lt Ballantyne on a 3.5 h.p Triumph, having exited a right-hand bend.
 
An event in July 1912, Portsmouth & District Motor Club. Fastest time - JG Kimber.
 
Also an event in Sept 1913, Southampton & District Motor Club. (the event included sidecars and cycle-cars)

This is my part of the world, only 2 miles away; if you can post the photo or a link to it, I might be able to tell where it is.

Another idea for location is the long straight uphill road called East Street from the direction of Hambledon towards the Bat and Ball pub, where there is a nasty right-hand bend if going on to Clanfield.

Paul M