47 replies to this topic

[RedFever]

Much speculation surrounds Ayrton Senna's encounter with Eddie Irvine after the 1993 Japanese GP. The following is a transcript of that now infamous event ...
The scene: Eddie Irvine is sitting alone on a table in the Jordan cabin. Jordan's commercial manager, Rubens Barichello and several other people, mostly Team members, are also present. Suzuka was Irvine's first ever F1 race and everyone is watching a re-run of the Senna-Hill-Irvine incident.
Suddenly the door opens and in walks Ayrton Senna accompanied by Norman Howell, director of communications for McLaren and Giorgio Ascanelli, Senna's engineer.
Senna is looking for Irvine, but either he doesn't see him or he doesn't recognise him. Eddie Irvine raises his hand and Senna walks over to him ...
Irvine : Here!
Senna : What the **** do you think you were doing?
Irvine : I was racing!
Senna : You were racing? Do you know the rule that you're supposed to let the leaders come by when you're a back marker?
Irvine : If you were going fast enough, it was no problem.
Senna : I overtook you! And you went three times off the road in front of me, at the same place, like ****ing idiot, where there was oil. And you were throwing stones and all things in front of me for three laps. When I took you, you realised I was ahead of you. And when I came up behind Hill, because he was on slicks and in difficulties, you should have stayed behind me. You took a very big risk to put me out of the race.
Irvine : Where did I put you in any danger?
Senna : You didn't put me in any danger?
Irvine : Did I touch you? Did I touch you once?
Senna : No, but you were that much from touching me, and I happened to be the ****ing leader. I HAPPENED TO BE THE ****ING LEADER!
Irvine : A miss is as good as a mile.
Senna : I tell you something. If you don't behave properly in the next event, you can just rethink what you do. I can guarantee you that.
Irvine : The stewards said "No problem. Nothing was wrong."
Senna : Yeah? You wait till Australia. You wait till Australia, when the stewards will talk to you. Then you tell me if they tell you this.
Irvine : Hey, I'm out there to do the best for me.
Senna : This is not correct. You want to do well. I understand, because I've been there I understand. But it's very unprofessional. If you are a back marker, because you happen to be lapped ...
Irvine : But I would have followed you if you'd overtaken Hill!
Senna : You should let the leader go by ...
Irvine : I understand that fully!
Senna : ... and not come by and do the things you did. You nearly hit Hill in front of me three times, because I saw, and I could of collected you and him as a result, and that's not the way to do that.
Irvine : But I'm racing! I'm racing! You just happened to ...
Senna : You're not racing! You're driving like a ****ing idiot. You're not a racing driver, you're a ****ing idiot!
Irvine: You talk, you talk. You were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Senna : I was in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Irvine : Yes. I was battling with Hill.
Senna : Really? Really? Just tell me one thing. Who is supposed to have the call? You, or the leader of the race who comes through to lap you?
Irvine : The leader of the race.
Senna : So what have you done?
Irvine : You, you were too slow, and I had to overtake you to try to get at Hill.
Senna : Really? How did I lap you if I was too slow?
Irvine : Rain. Because on slicks you were quicker than me, on wets you weren't.
Senna : Really? Really? How did I come and overtake you on wets?
Irvine : Huh?
Senna : How come I overtook you on wets?
Irvine : I can't remember that. I don't actually remember the race.
Senna : Exactly. Because you are not competent enough to remember. That's how it goes you know.
Irvine : Fair enough. Fair enough. That's what you think.
Senna : You be careful guy.
Irvine : I will. I'll watch out for you.
Senna : You're gonna have problems not with me only, but with lots of other guys, also the FIA.
Irvine : Yeah?
Senna : You bet.
Irvine : Yeah? Good.
Senna : Yeah? It's good to know that.
Irvine : See you out there.
Senna : It's good to know that.
Irvine : See you out there ...
Appearing to turn away Senna then turns back and hits Irvine with his left hand. The blow lands on the right side of Irvine's head. Irvine loses his balance and falls off the table. Senna is still shouting as he is hustled towards the door.
Irvine yells "Insurance claim there!"
Senna (leaving) retorts "You got to learn to respect where you're going wrong!"


So, what do you think??????

[harbin]

Senna was a great driver, but basically an ass on the personality side, at least when something unexpected like this happened. Reminds me of the Schumi/Coulthard incident at Spa a few years ago.

[Peeko]

Cool!! A WAV file would be sweet!! Where did you get the transcript??

[DJS]

I'm with Senna, 100%...
Shame he could never hit for ****

[desmo]

I lost some respect for Ayrton and gained some respect for Eddie that day.

[Keith Steele]

I guess Eddies quick wit only works for his snappy one liners. Senna cornered him in the arguement, admited he didnt remember, than still remained cocky. Strange. I always liked Irvine because he got under Senna's skin, and I was never a big fan of Senna's. Oh well, reads kinda like two children on a playground.

[Ricardo F1]

Handbags, as some might say. Either way I'm with DJS and Senna, Irvine should have stayed behind him.

[John B]

And this, mind you, was after Senna had WON the race...

[SpaRCo]

Now that was funny

[Hooster]

If this transcript is true, then Senna goes down as a total asshole in my book. That is not the way a civilized grown up human being behaves. There is no excuse for something like that.

[Mosquito]

RedFever,

Thanks for the transcript. How did you get it? I bet it came somewhere out of the McLaren archives. I always disliked Irvine for doing that stupid move. I think he just saw a chance to show off that he could beat the great Senna. Man! That was some bad weather and a silly thing by Eddy. Some say they dislike Senna for this one, but bar the slap at Eddie, I think he sounds very well behaved and self-constrained (sp?). And I think I can understand why he lost it in the end. I think visuals of Eddie being mister smart-ass would help us judge the situation.

[Cociani]

I also think Irvine was being a bit of a Jackass but there is never a good excuse to throw the first punch. IMO only an immature brat starts a fist fight.

[Lantern]

What suprises me is the reaction from a lot of people on the board. What I mean is.... How come ya get upset at someone yelling at another person instead of the physical harm done? A punch in a situation like that is never called for....especially a cowardly sucker punch.

[Lantern]

Not saying that the yelling was mature

But, it was a far less cowardly and asinine as the punch.

[Hooster]

Amen to that, Lantern.

[Mosquito]

Lantern,

I think it's easy for us to judge. Imagine the combined stress of the race, the pooring rain (it was real bad!), and the adrenaline rush from leading / winning and then little freshman Irvine doing this stupid stuff.

Could you imagine these combined stimula? We all know how emotional Senna could be, remember him shouting in his car and fainting after winning his Brazil home race? That's stress and high pressure being released. Senna just topped off in the end. I do not approve, but I can understand and my sympathy in THIS case is with Senna.

[RainyDay]

irvine might be an idiot sometimes but I have to say that the guy is cool. while senna was using expletive words, irvine remained calm.luckily for senna that a bigger irvine didn't retaliate to the smaller,sucker-punching senna.

[Hendy]

You guys have to realize that this is a top line athlete. There is a pecking order in F1 and Eddie F***ed with the wrong dude. The greatest driver in the world having some wanker unlapping himself in his first race...that is cheeky. Senna would have gotten by at the next corner anyway. As a side note, Senna was drinking scotch with Berger after the race as that's their big blow out and was taunting him to punch his lights out...Senna bit and the rest is history.

[Hooster]

I don't care how many races a driver wins. If he fails to do so with dignity it's not worth anything. It's hard to imagine anyone with respect for themselves behaving the way Senna did. I can't respect anyone like that.

It seems to me winning was just too important for Senna and he was blinded by it. He did some other regretable things like ramming Prost on purpose.

[Mosquito]

Hooster, don't forget Prost took out Senna the year before, only Prost was smarter and made it look like he just closed the door.

And, Eddie is just a big an asshole in the exchange as Senna is emotional and loosing self-control.

I just prefer Sennas emotional approach above Eddies smartass approach. I don't approve of both...

[John]

From the conversation alone, Senna had it all over Irvine. No sense in being a smart ass when you are wrong not only on the track, but arguing the point later on. For the racing aspect of it, Senna was right.

But the respect Senna was trying to command of Irvine was completely thrown out the door by punching him. He should have realized he won on every level, and just walked away.

[mono-posto]

How did Senna expect to earn Irvines respect by calling him a '****ing idiot'. That is how you lose respect, not gain it.

[AlesiGOD]

This transcript does seem fake to me, but anyway Irvines a jerk and he deserved that punch!

[Linus27]

Senna, great driver but a complete terry **** witt off track. Don't tell me, God told him to do it. Yeah right. No respect at all. He just wanted to be the Daddy and didn't liked being out raced by a rookie. LOSER.

[Elspeth]

At a following race or testing or something, Berger set up boxing ring ropes around Senna's car & hung boxing gloves from car mirror.

[HB?!]

Irvine was showing off, Senna got pist off. Neither of the attitudes was comendable, but I hope someday Irvine will see he is not as great a driver as he thinks he is. And knowing Irvine's reputation for beign a smart-ass, I probably would have punched him too. Hehehe, and Senna put him to the ground!

[Nikolas Garth]

The below quote comes from the moderator of Formula 1.co.uk who is a Eddie fan and good fellow. I just wanted to throw his opinion into the mix. Personally I am unconcerned about this issue.

Where in the rules does it say a driver is not allowed to unlap himself ? Let's take this to the silly zone. Driver 'A' is leading the race and laps driver 'E' who is in 5th place. Driver 'A's car then starts to experience a problem - he get's stuck in 4th gear. According to Senna's argument since driver 'A' is still leading the race driver 'E' must slow down and stay behind him. NONESENSE !

For whatever reason after passing irvine Senna slowed and was taking an inordinate amount of time trying to pass Hill or for whatever reason decided to sit behind Hill. That was stopping Irvine in his battle for 4th(?) place. In order to get on with his race and fulfill his obligation to his employers he was duty bound to do all he could to get that place (I wish a few more drivers thought like that !). The only way he could do that was to unlap himself, a perfectly legal and reasonable manouvre.

Senna was reportedly drunk when this incident took place. If he had an issue he should have taken it through official channels but he knew he didn't have a leg to stand on. His performance, if that is a true transcript, was shameful and the result of an ego dented by the fact that the new boy in an inferior car was able to pass him.

[stoopid]

Red: where did you find this? why no source? it seems a bit suspicious to me.

These incidents occured before i ever really got into F1, but if the transcript is accurate, hats off to Irvine.

Senna may have been a good racer but that doesn't give one the right to act like an idiot. He deserved Irvine's smartass approach. Hitting Irvine was just stupid.

[magnum]

And didn't eddie get dq'd for three races a short time later for dangerous driving? Maybe that slap didn't do much good - but Senna knew what was coming.

[Ricardo F1]

Eddie was an idiot. The reason Senna took time to pass Hill was because he didn't need to do anything stupid in bad conditions. Senna, like Schumacher, is one of those people who always stress safety requirements in F1 (then take people off the circuit deliberately while racing!!!) - EI overtaking was dangerous given the conditions.

[Pacific]

I think after racing with Schumacher Eddie knows where he stands. Eddie proved to everyone last year he was better then damn near everybody thought he was, I think. He doesn't get much credit. He was the perfect teammate for Michael Schumacher because of his mental toughness. His smart aleck manner probably helped all the Schumacher pressure just slide off his back. Irvine had fun *ucking with Coulthard and get wins when Hakkinen went out. (Of course Schumacher was injured for all of his wins except Australia, which had its circumstances too. Eddie would have never won with both Michael and Mika together in a race finishing. But, he's not a bad driver. I'm not certain though, if he's the right man to lead a team like Jaguar. Herbert seems to have lost his confidence already. Neither Herbert or Eddie are real team leaders in my opinion. That's something special that McLaren has, both Mika and DC could be team leaders. I said my ultimate driver pairing would be Villeneuve and DC and I have sound reasons for that. You can pair Schumacher and Hakkinen together, but will they really have any chemistry?

I can picture Irvine with that "Insurance Claim" remark.

[P1 Pyrsol]

When you have an opportunity to get your lap back you take it whether you're passing Fangio, Senna, Schumacher or Long Duck Dong.

[Fisticus]

I was a huge Senna fan, never really been a big Eddie fan, but i do like to laugh at his unconventional & colourful approach..
anyway i don't think theres any thing wrong with what he did on the track. No-one has a right to be anywhere on the track, so go for it, i say.
Imagine the outcry & sour faces if it happened again now to Schumi or Hak.!!

[Simioni]

Here's a description of what happened on the track:

Senna, on wets, laps Irvine, also on wets. On the same lap, the two close on Hill, who has just taken on slicks on a drying track, and is still picking up pace. Senna gets on his tow to pass on the straight before 130R, but Martin Brundle's wheel is bouncing across the road, so Senna backs off. Around 130R, Senna is showing his nose to Hill, but Irvine simply takes the chance to dive around the outside of Senna into the chicane. Hill and Irvine then battle fiercely for one and a half lap in front of Senna, touching wheels and all. Irvine goes wide and Senna dives on the inside, with only a few inches between them. Senna loses 15s of his lead to Prost in those 3 laps.

On the racing aspect of it, Irvine was clearly wrong. As for the transcription above, we can't make a judgement only by the words. According to those who were there, Irvine behaved like a brickwall. Senna, temperamental as he was, lost it. No excuse can be given for such behavior. If he had a fault, it was that he could be a real arrogant asshole when it came to his racing. Those of you trying to diminish him as a man based in one single event (which you didn't even witness) don't deserve better judgement, however.

[SpaRCo]

Well Redfever how about you tell us all where you found this transcript.

[szs]

http://www.ayrton-se...nna/suzuka.html

[Daemon]

I never did think much of Senna attitude, and this just highlights the fact. May have been a brilliant driver, but what an arrogant prick. I'm surprised Irvine didn't lay him out on the first time he was called an ****ing idiot. I sure as hell no I wouldn't have someone in my face doing that, World champion or not....

[DJS]

I think that Eddie proved Ayrton's accusations were true throughout the 94 season: Brazil (causes big accident by not looking in his mirrors), Imola (punts Herbert off the track 'coz he forgot to brake), plus he appealed against the FIA's ruling for Brazil and got kicked out for three races.

Add to that Melbourne 97 and a few other 'First-lap *uckups'...

When he keeps his head together and his mouth shut, Eddie can put in a good performance, but he is not the best out there as the result at Suzuka last year proved.

[senna]

I think once you have been laped you should retire from the race because you are obviously too slow.I also think Senna should have hit him a little bit harder.

[doohanOK]

I'd like to know the actual human source of this text.

But nonetheless, interesting....

Irvine is the backmarker, he has to give way, full stop.

Senna is 100% in the right.

And Senna had a great career, unlike Irvine.....

regards,
doohanOK.

[Pacific]

"Irvine didn't."

Meanwhile, while all the arm-chair drivers who make how much money a year watching Irvine race F1 and make how much money..
Who also obviously know Irvine's a failure since they have absolutely no F1 experience.

I think most of the Irvine detractors are probably just jealous. That's pretty much true of all the F1 drivers. So many people talk such big **** here, but if it ever came time to go up against a failure like Eddie Irvine, I know who I have my money on: Eddie Irvine. A little respect might be in order from Mazzacane on up the grid. Because it ain't like I'm talking to Alain Prost or perhaps Gerhard Berger on this BB. (Two guys who might actually show up. Unfortunately Senna isn't alive to defend himself.) I don't think you could call any of the current F1 drivers failures at all. If they're failures God only knows what that makes all of us.

[Yelnats]

DoohanOK' "Senna had a great carreer, Unlike Irvine" .... I think Eddie would disagree with that, he's still alive! {;->

But to be fair to Irvine he was in his first race and Senna should know that this type of thing happens and wrote it off as another rookie **** UP. Particularly as he won the race!

Irvine's big problem was that it took him 3 years to get over those type of screwups, In 96 he wacked JV a few times and earned the nick name "Irv the swerve" for a while. But Eddie's a model of correctness now, almost makes one wish for the good-old-days!

P.S. As true as this transcript rings, I find it hard to imagine someone taking all this down word for word. Had a recorder running, did they?

[Andi]

I wonder if Senna also punched his pit crew when they put on the tires too slow.
????

[Louis Mr. F1]

the full conversation was captured by an Autosport journalist (who was in the Jordan pit celebrating at the time), and according to him, when he saw Senna charging in, he sensed something was going to happen and turned on his tape recorder. It was published in the Autosport 93 Japanese GP issue.
Also, it was reported that actually Berger had advised Senna that he should go to the Jordan pit to have a face-to-face confrontation with Irvine.
Good to see Irvine crashed out of the next race in Australia.

[Louis Mr. F1]

Now i just re-checked my copy, the headline of the front cover says "Punch-up in Japan"

In the first news page, it describes the following:

Autosport's Japanese correspondent Adam Cooper was in the Jordan office in the Suzuka paddock after the race on Sunday, when Ayrton Senna attacked Eddie Irvine. Here is what he saw and heard:

Eddie Irvine is sitting on a table. Also in the room are Rubens Barrichello, Ian Philips, half a dozen team members and myself. We are enjoying a TV re-run of the Hill/Irvine/Senna dice.
The door swings open,and Ayrotn Senna enters with his engineer..............The atmosphere is tense. Sensing that something is about to happen, I switch on my tape recorder.

then is the full conversation as provided.

It was reported at the time that Senna put his 1994 championship campaign on jeopardy because of the fight. It was believe the FIA was trying to use the opportunity to make life difficult for Senna to spice up the 94 title fight. With hindsight, i wished they had banned him for the 94 season or the first few races, maybe he'd still be with us today. Silly thoughts.

[kenny]

LouisF1, yeah I remeber that, If Senna did one more bad thing, the FIA would ban him for 2 races in 1994...it makes you wonder doesnt it..what if...

Of all the jokes Berger pulled on Senna, I think this one was the worst one, pressing him to go to Irvine

[RedFever]

Sorry, I was away, but I see others posted my source already. The website is built and maintained by Senna fans and the human source has been pointed out already.

PS. If I, as a driver, I see the opportunity to pass the guy in front of me (Hill in this case), I'd dive in and attempt the pass. If Senna wasn't able to pass a slower Hill, I can't sit and jerk around. I am new and I have possibly only a few GPs to impress someone and get a permanent seat in F1. Senna'a indecision caused Eddie to do what he did. I would have done the same.

[F1DADDY]

###### REMATCH ######

In the blue corner weighing in at 17Kg (including ego), Irv the (oops didn't see ya there Aryton) Swerve.

In the red corner weighing in at 15Kg (including jaw) David (hey I drive an F1 car, a lear jet can't be that tough) Coulthard (Filling in for Senna)


Let the steel cage match, WDC slapdown commence.



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F1DADDY, Who's ya Daddy