87 replies to this topic

[Pete Stowe]

Quote

Originally posted by Don Capps.
In the US, perhaps the best place I have come across that sees the world through the sames lenses that most of is the International Motor Racing Research Center at Watkins Glen. They try very hard and have assembled a great deal of information -- which is there and available. The staff is superb and very helpful.

Having visited the Watkins Glen library last year I can thoroughly endorse everything Don’s said. Here in the UK we also have the National Motor Museum Library at Beaulieu. In addition to thousands of books they also have runs of all the British magazines from the 1900s onwards ; again, I’ve always found the staff to be extremely helpful and enthusiastic.

[Fred Gallagher]

Rather than start a new thread this seemed to be the place to ask for some advice.

When putting consecutive volumes (Autocourse for example) on a shelf do you start on the right or on the left?

My instinct has always been to start on the right, using the logic that the end of, say, 1965 is adjacent to the start of 1966. The problem is that everyone who comes to visit asks why my books are all the wrong way round! They think that one to ten should read left to right as it would on a printed page. Even my wife and father-in-law (who built all the shelves) are of that opinion.

Any opinions out there?

Fred

[Giraffe]

Morning Fred! In the Moslem world for example, your's would be the instinctive way to lay them out, as they read books from back to front, literally! (I rather expect in China too?)
There will inevitably be some EEC legislation on this I would have thought; my advice to you Fred, is to contact your Euro MP.

[ensign14]

Deffo left to right. Same with alphabetical order, Allison on the left, Zborowski on the right.

[bigears]

To be honest, I don't put them in alphabetical order, I put them in order of book sizes.

Starting with the largest book on the left onwards to the smallest book on the right hand side.

[Giraffe]

ensign14, on Jul 9 2009, 10:42, said:

Deffo left to right. Same with alphabetical order, Allison on the left, Zborowski on the right.

The alphabet is static and immovable, but this is all to do with chronology; should the first come first, or should the latest come first? Which reminds me, mine need sorting out so we need to resolve this quickly so I can crack on with it!

Edited by Giraffe, 09 July 2009 - 09:51.

[Rob]

ensign14, on Jul 9 2009, 10:42, said:

Deffo left to right. Same with alphabetical order, Allison on the left, Zborowski on the right.

Zunino on the right, surely?

Although I don't remember seeing any books on him.

[David McKinney]

I've never thought twice about it - left to right always seemed completely logical
With unbound stacks of mags the oldest ones tend to be on the bottom and the newest on the top - but it's a lot easier if they're bound and on shelves
Marque books, biographies etc are shelved alphabetically from left to right (by subject, not author)

[Giraffe]

I think what Fred is saying is that Autocourse, for example, would ostensibly be towards the left, but would you run 1966 to 2008 left to right, or 2008 to 1966?

[Fred Gallagher]

Rob, on Jul 9 2009, 10:56, said:

Zunino on the right, surely?

Although I don't remember seeing any books on him.

....and Aaltonen on the left!

I'm still confused however. When I bind magazines the magazines in the binder go right to left when you look at the spine, so it seems logical to continue like that. If I sort the volumes left to right then issue number 1 (the start of volume 1) will be adjacent to issue number 52 (the end of volume 2). My way issue 26 (end of volume 1) is adjacent to issue number 27 (start of volume 2)......

Does no one agree?

Fred

[David McKinney]

I see your logic Fred, but that would surely apply only if the mags are unbound?
If you need to look at, eg, December 1965 and January 1966 consecutively, you're going to have to take each volume off the shelf...

[Giraffe]

i.e. the latest issue would always be on the left, Fred?

[Fred Gallagher]

Giraffe, on Jul 9 2009, 11:07, said:

i.e. the latest issue would always be on the left, Fred?

Living proof.....




Fred

[Odseybod]

Just to throw a bit more mud into the water, I've just done a very random check on the spine of various mags and books. Almost without exception, the text (title. issue date, whatever) is the right way up when the front cover is uppermost. To my addled brain, that would suggest that if they're stacked vertically on a shelf, the convention is to read along them from left to right (having turned one's head through 90 degrees, of course). So maybe the chronology should move in the same direction?

[ensign14]

Rob, on Jul 9 2009, 10:56, said:

Zunino on the right, surely?

Although I don't remember seeing any books on him.

If he ever does write an autobiography I'm going to need new shelves.

[Fred Gallagher]

ensign14, on Jul 9 2009, 11:26, said:

If he ever does write an autobiography I'm going to need new shelves.

Aaltonen to Zasada is my range.



Fred

[Giraffe]

Just a thought Fred, are you left-handed? This may have some bearing on it. I'm a lefty, and my inclination is to follow your "latest to hand" layout.

[Fred Gallagher]

Giraffe, on Jul 9 2009, 11:46, said:

Just a thought Fred, are you left-handed? This may have some bearing on it. I'm a lefty, and my inclination is to follow your "latest to hand" layout.

Nice idea, but no.

Fred

[Hamish Robson]

My Autocourses and Rallycourses go left-to-right, as do sundry other annuals, publications and, for example, my Tamiya Catalogue collection.

As for the "collection" or "library" question, I buy a lot of my books because I'm interested in the subject so that would be my library, but there's a cross-over with, say, Autocourse, as I'm always on the lookout for older editions. Which then becomes a collection within my library !!?!

[Fred Gallagher]

Hamish Robson, on Jul 9 2009, 12:08, said:

My Autocourses and Rallycourses go left-to-right, as do sundry other annuals, publications and, for example, my Tamiya Catalogue collection.

As for the "collection" or "library" question, I buy a lot of my books because I'm interested in the subject so that would be my library, but there's a cross-over with, say, Autocourse, as I'm always on the lookout for older editions. Which then becomes a collection within my library !!?!

I love both the early and late Autocourses. The problem I have is with 1957 and 1958. The content was pretty minimal yet the magazines each cost between £50 and £100.

The completist in me would like to have them but I know I would rarely refer to them so have so far resisted.

Fred

[Henri Greuter]

Doug Nye, on May 26 2002, 20:56, said:

I most decidedly do - and believe me, writing 'our' kind of books is a surefire way of avoiding any such 'accumulation'...

DCN

I know what you mean with that one....
But (in my case) the satisfaction about the achievement, as well as the fun it brought still makes it worth all the while.


other then that, my books are in the Library Room within my house.
Question answered Don?

henri

[Vitesse2]

Odseybod, on Jul 9 2009, 11:23, said:

Just to throw a bit more mud into the water, I've just done a very random check on the spine of various mags and books. Almost without exception, the text (title. issue date, whatever) is the right way up when the front cover is uppermost. To my addled brain, that would suggest that if they're stacked vertically on a shelf, the convention is to read along them from left to right (having turned one's head through 90 degrees, of course). So maybe the chronology should move in the same direction?

You haven't got much in foreign languages then ;) Most British and American publishers tend to run the spine title from top to bottom, but the convention in Europe tends to be the exact opposite

Edited by Vitesse2, 09 July 2009 - 12:17.

[PCC]

Fred Gallagher, on Jul 9 2009, 14:02, said:

I'm still confused however. When I bind magazines the magazines in the binder go right to left when you look at the spine, so it seems logical to continue like that. If I sort the volumes left to right then issue number 1 (the start of volume 1) will be adjacent to issue number 52 (the end of volume 2). My way issue 26 (end of volume 1) is adjacent to issue number 27 (start of volume 2)......

I think it has to do with how we physically use books, and making sure that the first item chronologically is also the first one we see. When binding journals into a single volume, the assumption is that we will look through them from the beginning to the end of the volume, which would put the earliest issues on top - which will be on the right once it's on the shelf. With a series spread out on a shelf, however, the assumption is that we will scan it in the same way we read - left to right, which will put the earliest volume on the right. It may seem contradictory, but in fact both conform to the conventions of how we read. And that's the way every research library I've seen sorts its periodicals.

I really enjoyed the discussion of library vs. collection. My books are primarily for research, but there is also a bit of the 'collector' in me, in that I am fascinated by books that are also beautiful objects. To me, a book does homage to its content by being well-bound, having a beautiful cover, using a well-chosen typeface, being printed on quality paper, having (where appropriate) beautiful illustrations, and being made to last. A beautifully crafted book is a source of great pleasure - as long as it is not wasted on rubbish content.

[Fred Gallagher]

PCC, on Jul 9 2009, 13:46, said:

I think it has to do with how we physically use books, and making sure that the first item chronologically is also the first one we see. When binding journals into a single volume, the assumption is that we will look through them from the beginning to the end of the volume, which would put the earliest issues on top - which will be on the right once it's on the shelf. With a series spread out on a shelf, however, the assumption is that we will scan it in the same way we read - left to right, which will put the earliest volume on the right. It may seem contradictory, but in fact both conform to the conventions of how we read. And that's the way every research library I've seen sorts its periodicals.

Thank you Peter for that very well reasoned point. I can see that it's going to be a long few weeks moving things around.....

Fred

[PCC]

PCC, on Jul 9 2009, 16:46, said:

With a series spread out on a shelf, however, the assumption is that we will scan it in the same way we read - left to right, which will put the earliest volume on the right.

...except this bit should have read "...left to right, which will put the earliest volume on the left." Oops! Hopefully it still made a bit of sense. Good luck moving those books, and don't drop any issues of Autocourse on your toes....

[Stephen Miller]

[quote name='Don Capps' date='Jun 12 2002, 21:17' post='889915']


Paid plug -- In the US, perhaps the best place I have come across that sees the world through the sames lenses that most of is the International Motor Racing Research Center at Watkins Glen. They try very hard and have assembled a great deal of information -- which is there and available. The staff is superb and very helpful. There are few other place close as well, but I have to put my in the Watkins Glen column.

I agree for the the International Motor Racing Research Center at Watkins Glen! When I first visited the Watkins Glen Library in the early 90's, I was impressed with the section devoted to motor sport in the main public library branch of this small town . It involved about 8-10 feet of floor to ceiling shelves of nothing but motor sport books in one corner of the Library. I must have spent a half an hour or so reviewing, with many volumes I had heard of before but never seen, plus ones I had never even heard of!

Returning in 2008 I found a whole new motor sport devoted building, I think bigger than(although attached to) the main public Library(still the same size as before). I must have spent at least 2 hours just reviewing the titles on the shelves let alone flipping pages. And the upstairs is chocked full of magazine volumes.

They also have a media room with running video and a really nice conference/reading room.

You could probably be very happy just living there!

Stephen

[cooper997]

Fred Gallagher, on Jul 9 2009, 21:42, said:

Aaltonen to Zasada is my range.



Fred

Sorry to go off topic, but Fred can you share a little info on 'Flying Finn 2008 - Rauno Aaltonen' please? You've raised my curiosity about it and where copies can be found. Is it in English?

Thanks

Stephen

[Fred Gallagher]

cooper997, on Jul 10 2009, 01:44, said:

Sorry to go off topic, but Fred can you share a little info on 'Flying Finn 2008 - Rauno Aaltonen' please? You've raised my curiosity about it and where copies can be found. Is it in English?

Thanks

Stephen

In 2006 the AKK, who organise the World Championship Rally Finland, decided to honour famous Finnish rally drivers. The first was Henri Toivonen, then Timo Makinen in 2007 and Rauno last year. I believe this year it will be Hannu Mikkola.

There is a small display in the foyer of Rally HQ with a suitable car and a good collection of photographs. The photographs are also published in a 36 page booklet as shown.

I'm sure you can find an address for the Finnish Federation and ask if they have any copies left.

Fred

[D-Type]

Consecutive volumes: Tricky if you think about it!

(1) If you put magazines in a loose leaf binder normally the oldest is on the bottom. But, if the pages are consecutively numbered like Motor Sport used to, then the page numbers won't be in sequence
(2) Take the magazines out of the binder or put them on a pile and again the oldest is on the bottom
(3) Assuming they're stiff enough to stand on edge, if you pick the pile up and put it on a bookshelf, then the oldest will be on the left.
(4) Go into a public library and you will find that biographies are ordered by subject and fiction and everything else by author with A on the left
(5) If they have any multi-volume book like an encyclopedia, Volume 1 is on the left
(6) If they have yearbooks, or things like Wisden*, again the oldest or lowest is on the left
(7) If you have a group of lockers then the lowest number is on the left

Apart from the page number sequence of multi-volume thingies, it appears that as we read from left to right we intuitively arrange things that way as that's the way we'll look for them.

Sorry Fred, I think you are in a minority on this one.

Library or collection? And what to do with it when you go to the top paddock? Food for thought and I'll come back when I've thunk.



*Wisden - a yearbook about a stick and ball game

[cooper997]

Fred Gallagher, on Jul 10 2009, 17:40, said:

In 2006 the AKK, who organise the World Championship Rally Finland, decided to honour famous Finnish rally drivers. The first was Henri Toivonen, then Timo Makinen in 2007 and Rauno last year. I believe this year it will be Hannu Mikkola.

There is a small display in the foyer of Rally HQ with a suitable car and a good collection of photographs. The photographs are also published in a 36 page booklet as shown.

I'm sure you can find an address for the Finnish Federation and ask if they have any copies left.

Fred

Fred,

Thank you for bringing me up to speed on the Aaltonen & Makinen booklets. Shall see if I can track them down.

Stephen

[ac_Masaryk]

I have some books, mainly from Portugal, and many portuguese magazines. But I am also a reader, not a collector. If I can find articles on internet, like thoise from 8W, it's very good.

[terry mcgrath]

Does any reader have a set of "Top Gear" the magazine of the Scottish Sporting Car Club ?
I would be very keen to obtain copies either originals, Microfiche copies, scanned copies or photocopies.
I am not sure how many pages are in each copy?
Several Australian magazines the libraries has have copied old magazines microfiche/microfilm for posterity.
Love to hear from anyone who can add any info on this title

terry

[fbarrett]

Friends:

On some subjects--Porsche and Alfa Romeo, mainly--I'm a book collector, but on others, not so much. If an automotive book interests me, was written by a great author, or gets terrific reviews, I'll consider buying it no matter the subject. Sometimes this pays off. A few years ago I had the opportunity to write a book on Shelby cars, never a main interest for me, but my library already contained most of the good books on that topic. Friends wanting to research various subjects also benefit from the general aspect of the library. I never hesitate to acquire a book on an esoteric subject, because owning a book about a specific car is often far easier and much less fuss than owning the car itself! For instance, I'll never own a Ferrari or a Frazer-Nash, but my library has a selection of good titles on both makes. I never met either Enzo or Archie, but books help me to understand them.

Frank

[SWB]

It would have been good to have a poll at the begining of this thread to see where the balance is. But I can't afford to collect books, so I only buy books that I need for my work.

That said, over the years those essential books have become very collectable and the prices have risen alarmingly, to such an extent that I do now treat them with some respect, rather than something to have opened out all over the floor.

Steve

[Lemnpiper]

Greetings All,


Oddly enough just last saturday (Nov 7th 2009 ) the main branch of the Richmond Va Library had a book sale to help create added space on the shelves. Naturally there was much run of the mill books on cooking and gardening and audio cassets of novels along with tons of paperback novels which didnt appear to promising to me .As i was leaving with a few music related books one of the clerks mentioned that in another room there was a sale goin on with extra "special collections" that were getting sold.
Upon poking around some above avg Civil War related manuscripts and illustrated art tablebooks what do i spy but a 1946 edition of Floyd's Clymer's Indy 500 annual in rather decent condition for $25!
As i handed it to the lady working at the desk she remarked she was glad someone had decided to buy it cuz it had sat neglected thru at least 3 prior sales with no takers. This book is packed with info on the war2 years .If there was a "barn finds"section for books this would qualify.( i believe this bookwas donated to the library and ended up as surplus)
Plus i must thank the folks here at this forum for alerting me to these books so when i stumbled across one i knew to to buy it. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH !
Plus it shows execellent research material is still coming to market as local libraries hold sales as they try to maintain what they believe the majority of thier customers need.So dont overlook what you local library may offer up for sale from time to time.



Paul

[ryan86]

For me, I'd say a library, but I've not spefically got it particularly for any research on the topic - I think it's more than I want to know that it's there to go back to if needs be. I've not got anything particularly rare, but having got into the habit of picking up a second hand books cheaply on Amazon, and going into charity shops to see if there's anything interesting.

[T54]

Quote

Upon poking around some above avg Civil War related manuscripts and illustrated art tablebooks what do i spy but a 1946 edition of Floyd's Clymer's Indy 500 annual in rather decent condition for $25! love.gif
As i handed it to the lady working at the desk she remarked she was glad someone had decided to buy it cuz it had sat neglected thru at least 3 prior sales with no takers.

The barbarians are not at the gate, they are already inside the gate... congrats on a good purchase. I am still looking for a couple of years (1958...) and I LOVE the Clymer books. I also have the original painting of the cover of the 1961 issue in my office, I found it in a swap meet years ago...

Edited by T54, 22 February 2010 - 02:22.

[tinkerwinker]

Having just found this forum, I would class myself as a library collector, something around 1500 ish books, and all bought for the enjoyment of owning and reading books about a fascinating subject. The interent has certainly helped expand my collection of the old and rare copies, and I suppose like all collectors, I buy to own, but with the knowledge, that should I ever fall on hard times, they are a sound investment, and so much more enjoyable than some share certificates.

Edited by tinkerwinker, 17 May 2010 - 21:02.