Jump to content


Photo

Alternative Nurburgring?


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 2F-001

2F-001
  • Member

  • 3,666 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 23 October 2002 - 17:18

Last week I treated myself to the recently published ''75 Jahre Nürburgring" - my German is very weak, but the book has many interesting pictures I'd not seen before and is, by the standards of modern mass-produced volumes, very nicely produced.

The section towards the end about the 'new' GP track, opens with a map showing a track layout that bears only passing resemblence to what actually got built. I can only assume this was a proposed layout at some stage...
Does anyone know anything more about this?

(The caption below the map reads: ''Der Erste Entwurf des neuen Rings sah die Möglichkeit vor, auf zwei unabhangigen Teilen des Kurses gleichzeitig Rennen auszutragen'' - which I think means something like, the initial drawings for the new Ring(s) looked at the possibility of two circuits that could each stage races at the same time).

Advertisement

#2 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,350 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 23 October 2002 - 17:26

I remember the magazines publishing a picture of the 'new' Nurburgring. In fact, I think I still have it. If no-one else posts it in the next few hours, I'll look for it and put it up.

#3 Rediscoveryx

Rediscoveryx
  • Member

  • 1,720 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 23 October 2002 - 17:48

Originally posted by Barry Boor
I remember the magazines publishing a picture of the 'new' Nurburgring. In fact, I think I still have it. If no-one else posts it in the next few hours, I'll look for it and put it up.


That would be great!

I can't recall hearing anthing about a proposed alternative layout

#4 danielking

danielking
  • Member

  • 32 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 23 October 2002 - 18:04

Proposals for the 'New Nurburgring' from 1978 can be found at http://www.racingcir...oposalAnim.html

#5 Rediscoveryx

Rediscoveryx
  • Member

  • 1,720 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 23 October 2002 - 18:06

Originally posted by danielking
Proposals for the 'New Nurburgring' from 1978 can be found URL=http://www.racingcircuits.net/Germany/NurburgringProposalAnim.html]here[/URL].


Thanks :up:

#6 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,350 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 23 October 2002 - 18:08

For those too lazy to look, here is the one published in Motoring News.
Posted Image

I can't make up my mind whether this would be better, worse or no different from the one they built!

#7 2F-001

2F-001
  • Member

  • 3,666 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 23 October 2002 - 18:14

Wow - that's great Daniel!
The layout shown in the book I mentioned is ''1979 proposal'' on that site.

#8 MichaelJP

MichaelJP
  • Member

  • 853 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 23 October 2002 - 18:23

Those are interesting - I've often wondered why they never tried to capture any of the Nordschleife's character on the new circuit, with it's dramatic camber and gradient changes?

- MichaelJP

#9 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,350 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 23 October 2002 - 20:30

I've often wondered why they never tried to capture any of the Nordschleife's character on the new circuit, with it's dramatic camber and gradient changes?



An easy one to answer. In a word - ECCLESTONE. Or rather, 2 words - ECCLESTONE/MOSELEY.

#10 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,635 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 23 October 2002 - 21:09

I have another word... I don't think this has ever been suggested before on this subject...

Television... I wonder what decisions about circuit layouts are made for the sake of television?

#11 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,350 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 23 October 2002 - 21:14

The thing is, Ray, television rights for F1 these days are basically controlled by one man. I refer you back to my previous post. :(

#12 Slyder

Slyder
  • Member

  • 5,453 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 23 October 2002 - 21:15

Originally posted by Barry Boor
For those too lazy to look, here is the one published in Motoring News.
Posted Image

I can't make up my mind whether this would be better, worse or no different from the one they built!


IMO, this layout is excellent, more challenging and exciting than the existing one. Pity they didn't considered it.

I still think they should've kept the Sudshleife, the only thing was to modify it a little to make it up to date's standards. It would've been great, since it would've managed to keep the aspect of the old Nurburgring intact, but they didn't see it that way.

#13 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,635 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 23 October 2002 - 22:38

Originally posted by Barry Boor
The thing is, Ray, television rights for F1 these days are basically controlled by one man. I refer you back to my previous post. :(


I realise this, Barry... but my point was that the demands of television (ie. what looks good on television) are different to those that might motivate a circuit designer who is seeking to provide a test of drivers that is truly testing, or that appeals to the spectators on site.

#14 StickShift

StickShift
  • Member

  • 5,386 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 24 October 2002 - 05:35

Originally posted by Barry Boor

Posted Image


Anyone know the reason why they opted for the shorter version that we currently are stuck with?

#15 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,635 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 24 October 2002 - 05:39

Referring to posts 9, 10, 11 and 13 should give you a clue...

The line of least resistance.

#16 MichaelJP

MichaelJP
  • Member

  • 853 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 24 October 2002 - 08:58

Originally posted by Slyder
IMO, this layout is excellent, more challenging and exciting than the existing one. Pity they didn't considered it.


It still suffers from the "modern circuit disease" of being a combination of straight lines and constant radius turns.

Originally posted by Slyder
I still think they should've kept the Sudshleife, the only thing was to modify it a little to make it up to date's standards. It would've been great, since it would've managed to keep the aspect of the old Nurburgring intact, but they didn't see it that way.


Yes, that would have been so much better, but presumably much more expensive.

- MichaelJP

#17 LaurensDeJong

LaurensDeJong
  • Member

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 24 October 2002 - 13:47

Originally posted by MichaelJP


It still suffers from the "modern circuit disease" of being a combination of straight lines and constant radius turns.


That reminds me. Can anyone here identify any increasing or decreasing radius turns on the Nordschleife?

#18 Uwe

Uwe
  • Member

  • 707 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 24 October 2002 - 14:46

Originally posted by LaurensDeJong
That reminds me. Can anyone here identify any increasing or decreasing radius turns on the Nordschleife?

Being at work ;) I don't have my Ring map available, but if memory serves me right I'd say Aremberg and Galgenkopf (though I'm not that shure about Aremberg).

#19 Vilcornell

Vilcornell
  • Member

  • 72 posts
  • Joined: September 02

Posted 24 October 2002 - 15:29

the real thingh is that there was not the need to build a new track :p

Just slow down the cars......

Advertisement

#20 MichaelJP

MichaelJP
  • Member

  • 853 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 24 October 2002 - 15:49

Originally posted by LaurensDeJong

That reminds me. Can anyone here identify any increasing or decreasing radius turns on the Nordschleife?


Depends on how you classify them, as you know, many turns on the NS have curved entry or exits or lead into another turn in a complex way.

Reminds me of that old chestnut about how many corners there are on the NS... :)

- MichaelJP

#21 2F-001

2F-001
  • Member

  • 3,666 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 24 October 2002 - 17:53

Your knowledge of the Ring is legendary, Laurens, so I guess this is issued as a challenge (?) ;)
I'd say Kallenhard qualifies as a reducing-radius corner - although as Michael says, some of that is down to the line one might take rather than just the route taken by the tarmac.
(I was tempted to say that Eschbach had an expanding radius - but it was just MY LINE that had an expanding radius which put me on the grass on the right last time I was there...)

#22 LaurensDeJong

LaurensDeJong
  • Member

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 29 October 2002 - 11:19

Tony, yes -- that was meant as a challenge. And also as a reminder that you don't need increasing or decreasing radius turns to create a fantastically challenging circuit.

Galgenkopf and Kallenhard do indeed appear on the maps not to be constant radius turns. Thanks, Michael and Tony.