18 replies to this topic

[m.tanney]

The American Library of Congress's American Memory Collection is an online archive with a large collection of historic photographs. Among them are over 200 pictures of the Elgin road races. Just go to the link below, and search for "Elgin" and "races". Remember to pick the "limit search to photos and prints" option on the right and the "match all of these words" option. Your search results can be displayed either as a list or gallery style.

http://memory.loc.go...m/mdbquery.html


The site has some other racing photos, including a few nice ones of Louis Meyer at the end of the '28 Indy 500, but the Elgin pictures make up the bulk of the racing shots.
Enjoy,

Mike

[Don Capps]

I put in a search for "automobile racing" and found 618 images, which includes the Elgin material. I am going to make time to look at many of these carefully since I have already seen some superb images from the 1916 season of Dario Resta and others, including several great shows of the starting grids of several of the events. Something I was really intrigued by was that a number of the images actually have the names of those a number the usually anonymous racing/riding mechanicians.

Wow, the George Eastman material and now this! I am one Happy Camper!

[Hans Etzrodt]

Mike and Don,

Over three years ago, I researched the Elgin subject and have accumulated a 3.5 inch thick stack of copies from contemporary newspapers, programs or interesting correspondence plus pictures of my own production in color slides about program covers plus other items, but nothing earthshaking. In my free time I wrote after work for about 4 weeks or so, covering the startup and first event but then got distracted by discovery of TNF and eventually lost interest in the project.

I presently have good large copies of about 80 Elgin pictures but really need more, especially one covering the later years of this event. Do you have any idea what the prices are to obtain copies from those additional Elgin pictures discussed by both of you?

[robert dick]

Elgin photos available from the Chicago Historical Society (the link contains a lot of them) :
Eight years ago the price for a copy was 76,- $ (for a 1/1 copy + one-time publishing rights + postage to Germany).

[Hans Etzrodt]

SEVENTYSIX DOLLARS ???

[robert dick]

Confirmation :
Seventysix US-Dollars!

[robert dick]

Photo prices :
Current price at the Bibliothèque Nationale/Paris and the Conservatoire des Arts et Métiers/Paris = between 100,- and 120,- Euro per copy (including one-time publishing rights).

Photos for private use only (without publishing rights) from the Mercedes or Peugeot archives = 20,- Euro per copy.

[m.tanney]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Do you have any idea what the prices are to obtain copies from those additional Elgin pictures discussed by both of you?

Hans,

The photos on the Library of Congress website are from the Chicago Daily Times collection, which is held by the Chicago Historical Society. Its price for a B&W print from an existing negative (all of the scanned photos have copy negatives) is $10. In cases where a new negative has to be made, it's $20. Those are the prices for personal use. The publication fees are much higher. For publication by a "for-profit entity", it's $75. For a "non-profit entity", it's only $25. The fee schedule can be found at:

www.chicagohistory.org/collections/fees.html

It's probably no use arguing that, "I could never turn a profit on a book about the Elgin road races", even if it is true. In fact, given that those 220 or so pictures of the Elgin races would cost over $16,000US for for-profit publication, it would, I would think, be utterly impossible to turn a profit.

Could you create a non-profit entity for such a purpose - an "Elgin Road Races History Project"?. Possibly work a reasonable honorarium into the budget? Or would the red tape involved be far too great? Perhaps this is where the (now dormant?) idea of a motor racing historical society might come in handy - as a non-profit entity under whose auspices such projects could be published by commercial publishers. One often sees books published jointy by commercial publishing houses and museums, universities, and other non-profit foundations, institutes, etc.

But, as I know absolutely nothing about "non-profit entities", publishing, or much else for that matter, I'd best just shut-up. Still, the issue of reproduction fees is one that seems to plague motorsports historians (what's a racing book without lots of neat pictures?). So, too, is the whole matter of publishing a book which appeals neither to the mass market, or to university presses (the main publishers of unprofitable books). One can't help but wonder how many great books are sitting in drawers because the author either couldn't find a publisher, or couldn't afford the illustrations.

Mike

[Hans Etzrodt]

Mike and Robert thanks for your help explaining the price issue. I will try to find out by how far the picture price comes down for members of the Chicago Historical Society or do you happen to know the discount rate for members already? Either way, it should result in additional savings.

[m.tanney]

Originally posted by Don Capps
Wow, the George Eastman material and now this! I am one Happy Camper! [/B]

Don,
Glad you like it. The more I look, the more I find - including some nice shots of the Maywood board track, which is identified as "Speedway Park".
Unfortunately, nothing from the 1917 races (I have a particular interest in Pete Henderson, who won a 50 miler that year).
Are you familiar with the Florida Memory Collection?

www.floridamemory.com/PhotographicCollection/

It has some nice pre-WW1 photos of the Ormond Beach racers (Willie K., Bruce-Brown, ets.), a few shots of the Fulford board track, some '20s sprint cars and, of course, a lot of really nice land speed record stuff (Segrave, Lockhart, Keech, Campbell).
I wonder how many other state historical societies/archives have photo collections online?

[Phil Harms]

What an interesting selection of photos on the LOC/Chicago site. Of special interest is the what seems to be just about a complete collection of the starters for many of the Elgin races. We have all seen photos of the top tier drivers --- Tetzlaff, Wilcox, DePalma, Oldfield, etc. But for many of the second or third tier drivers ---- Maisonville, Heinemann, Monkmeier, Rainey and so many others -- I've never seen photos of most of them. I keep an album of driver cockpit shots for ID purposes and I'll be able to add probably over a 100 from this one site. The downloaded photos aren't very high resolution but good enough for reference purposes.

In addition, I have never seen any of these photos in any publication -- book or magazine. I've got almost a 100 Elgin photos but none of these. And evidently all are identified as well.

In the few weeks I've known of this forum I've discovered the Eastman site, the Kreb photos and now gosh knows how many LOC/Chicago photos. And I haven't even started searching through the Florida link. This forum is better than an evening with Google.

Are all of these sites listed on a website I haven't found yet? Thats a project that someone should undertake.

[robert dick]

Pete Henderson :
There are a few photos showing Pete Henderson on :

www.lib.auburn.edu/archive/flyhy/101/eddie.htm

It’s called “the Rickenbacker papers”, the main subject being the racing career of Eddie Rickenbacker (or Rickenbacher before WWI). There is a batch of photos showing the 300 cubic inch Maxwell, and hence Pete Henderson.
When just trying, the website did not load. I don’t know if it is dead currently. In any case the Auburn library has these photos.

= = = = = =

The San Diego Historical Society has no collection concentrated on auto racing, but a lot of beautiful material:

http://www.sandiegoh...w/mainphoto.htm

http://www.sandiegoh...autos/autos.htm

[Don Capps]

I have started the laborious process of scanning the "Chicago" material for names of the riding mechanicians to link them with the appropriate driver. And to follow-up on what Phil said, I am seeing the photographs of many drivers for the very first time. Hopefully, I can wrap this up later today. This is just great stuff!

[m.tanney]

Originally posted by Don Capps
I have started the laborious process of scanning the "Chicago" material for names of the riding mechanicians to link them with the appropriate driver.

Yes, the mechanics are an interesting group, especially as so many went on to become successful drivers in the AAA (O'Donnell,Murphy,DePaolo) and elsewhere (IMCA champ Fred Horey).
So, now that we have photos and stats (courtesy of Phil Harmes and motorsport.com), all we need is someone to write up history of the Elgin races. Hans...

Originally posted by Phil Harms
Are all of these sites listed on a website I haven't found yet? That's a project someone should undertake.

I learned of them from postings on the American racing history group on Yahoo which, BTW, seems to have solved its spam problem. I haven't been able to find any site listing all of these online photo archives, but I'm still looking. You're right, it certainly would be a useful resource.

[robert dick]

A lot of wonderful photos at :
http://lcweb2.loc.go...m/mdbquery.html
search for example "Cobe Cup Race" or "Barney Oldfield"...

[xkssFrankOpalka]

We had a rally retracing the old Elgin Road Races. Mostly there, there is a Memorial at the Start Finish line. I have a dash badge from the Cobe Cup at Crown Point, Ind.

[boynton2222]

My father, Oliver Temme, was a starter at the August 26, 1910 Elgin car race. Where did you say I can get pix of the starters? I have a program showing his name as starter.

Joane Temme Smith

[boynton2222]

If you "search" The Elgin National Road Race , you will find a complete report on the Elgin races written by a Jeff Michel.

Joane Temme Smith

[HistoricMustang]

This should be the circuit layout based on article. Let me know of any corrections. What a great history.

Henry

http://www.kalracing...ces_History.htm

http://www.kalracing...ces_History.htm