14 replies to this topic

[humphries]

Can anyone provide information on the earlier editions of the Limonest- Mont Verdun hill climb, organised by the A.C. du Rhone, up to the year 1968?

I believe the first event was held in 1905 and in April through to 1908. It may not have been held in 1909-1910 but was again held in May 1911 and 1912. The 1912 event was referred to as the VI edition and I think it was won by J.Deydier in a Cottin Desgouttes in 2 min 25.6 secs. On 26/5/1913 Fritz Erle won in the mighty Benz in 2 min 2.5 secs.

The problem for me is that the 1926 event was claimed to be the XIV edition. It was definitely held on 27/5/1923 ( Rene Thomas Delage ), 25/5/1924 ( Robert Benoist Delage ) and 7/6/1925 when Benoist lowered the time to 1 min 50.8 secs. Emmanuel Baboin won 16/5/1926 in his Bugatti 35 in 2 min 28.2 secs. Was it raining or was the course lengthened? So, was the event also run in 1914 or/and between 1920-1922?

I have two dates but no results for 12/6/1927 and 3/6/1928.

Then a big break to 22/9/1957 when somebody called Pittet won in his Ferrari 750S Monza in 2 min 19.2 secs, nothing for 1958, then 27/9/1959 when Andre Testut won in a 250F followed by Bernard Collomb in a Cooper-Climax in 1961. Charles Vogele won on 20/9/1964 in his 2.7 Brabham-Climax in 2 min 4 secs and other Swiss drivers on 16/9/1966 ( Harry Zweifel McLaren-Oldsmobile 1 min 50.1) and in 1967 with Georges Gachang in his Cegga-Ferrari 3.0 recording 1min 48.8.

Was the Limonest event held in 1958, 1960, 1962, 1963, 1965 and 1968 or between 1929-1956?

None of the above is Gospel! Any help with dates or results would be much appreciated.

John

[Hans Etzrodt]

John – since my research interest goes only up to 1950, I cannot help you with the “modern” stuff. I am presently assembling a listing of Mountain/Hill-Climbs or at least the few I can piece together between 1897 and 1949. I run into particular problems with the French events where I have big gaps or lack information most of the time and the Limonest Climb near Lyon is not different.

--- May 26, 1913 was a Monday. As a date I had June 1, but this was an assumed date. But the Monday seems to be suspect.
--- For 1922, I have a calendar date of May 28. By my calculation this should have been the 10th event.
--- The June 12, 1927 event was won by Louis Chiron (Bugatti) according to Marcor. I have no information on circuit length or car type.
--- For 1928, I also have June 3 as a calendar date but do not know if the event really took place.
--- The 1928 date is the last year where I have a planned event at Limonest.

[Marcor]

1- 1905
2- 1906
3- 1907
4- 1908
5- 1911
6- 1912, in May
7- 1913, Outright winner = Erle (Benz), 2 m 02 s 5/10, new record.
8- 1920, 5 September, Org: Motocycle Club de Lyon, no results, maybe only for motorbikes.
9- 1921: 24 April, Outright winner = Lecot (Bugatti), 1400 cc racing car class, 3 m 01 s, 3.740 km.
10- 1922: 7 May, Outright winner = Rougier (Voisin 18 HP Sport), + 3 L Touring car class, 2 m 12 s, 3.7 km.
11- 1923: 27 May, Outrightr winner = Thomas (Delage), + 4 L Racing car class, 2 m 20 s 2/5, 3.7 km, rain, 11th edition.
12- 1924: 25 May, Outright winner = Benoist (Delage 6 cyl 5.6 L), Racing car, 1 m 51 s, new record, 3.740 km.
13- 1925: 7 June, Outright winner = Benoist (Delage 6 L), racing car, 1 m 50 s 4/5, new record.
14- 1926: 16 May, Outright winner = Babouin (Bugatti 2 L), 2 L racing car class, 2 m 28 s 1/5, 3.7 km, bad weather.
15- 1927: 12 June, Outright winner = Chiron (Bugatti 2 L), 2 L racing car class, 1 m 49s 3/5, new record, 3.7 km.
16- 1928: 3 June, Outright winner = Dhome (Darmont-Morgan), cyclecar 1100 cc, 2 m 02 s 1/5. (To be confirmed !!!)

3.740 km or 3.7 km, obviously the same length (round problem ?)...

Sources: Les Sports, La Meuse, L'Etoile Belge, Neptune (Belgian newspapers), Le Figaro, Le Temps (French newspapers).

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Marcor
.....9- 1921: 24 April, Outright winner = Lecot (Bugatti), 1400 cc racing car class, 3 m 01 s, 3.740 km......

Is this Francois, the taxi driver?

[Marcor]

Yes, François Lecot, Bugatti agent and dealer at Lyon.

[humphries]

Marc

Thanks for the info. Any chance of fuller details for 1921,22,27 and even 28?

What a pity you do not research 1940s,50s and 60s! Again thanks.

John

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Marcor
Yes, François Lecot, Bugatti agent and dealer at Lyon.

The subject of that fabulous magazine article?

"The Strange Passion of Francois Lecot"...

[Hugo Boecker]

Originally posted by humphries

What a pity you do not research 1940s,50s and 60s! Again thanks.

Just one from the sixties:

18 sep. 1960 Harry Zweifel Cooper Monacco

and could the 1957 winner be: Francoise Picard he drove a 750S in that time.

[Marc Ceulemans]

22 Apr. 1906: J. Collomb (120 HP Mors racing car), 2m 28,2s
21 Apr. 1907: G. Deydier (70 HP Cottin-Desgouttes), 3m 01s
26 Apr. 1908: fastest = X (Berliet racing car), 2m 50s
21 May 1911: J. deydier (Cottin-Desgouttes racing car), 2m 25,6s

[gerard BARATHIEU]

HUMFRIES,

do you have a photo of the 250F of Andre TESTUT in 1959 ?

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by Marcor
Yes, François Lecot, Bugatti agent and dealer at Lyon.

Marc, is it Lecot or Lescot ?

François Lescot won 1921 at Limonest; 1926 at Torigni (Saint-Lô) and two months later at Monrepos (Bordeaux).

[Marc Ceulemans]

Hans, I’ve just realised Lecot and Lescot were not the same person !


1 : François Lecot, from Lyon
From 1920 to 1925, he competed principaly in his area : Limonest, Laffrey, Planfoy, Mont-Ventoux, … He drove Brescia-type Bugatti, Diatto, etc…



2 : Lescot
There’s 2 mentions of François Lescot in Vol 2 of the Black Books:
25 July 1926, Grand prix de la Marne, Bugatti 35, winner
13 March 1927, Grand Prix de l’Ouverture, Bugatti 37A (but a 2-liter unsupercharged model !), 2nd

From my data, I also have Lescot (I have to check if the forename is indicated but I have a doubt, I’m sure I was influenced by the Black Books)
4 April 1926, course de côte de Torigni, Bugatti 2 L, 1st
9 May 1926, Course de côte de l’Alouettes, Bugatti 2 L, 1st
16 May 1926, Championnat automobile des Aviateurs, St-Germain, Bugatti 2 L racing car, DNF + FL
End of June 1926, Course de côte de Monrepos, Bugatti 2 L, 1st
16 August 1926, Course de côte de la Croix Saint-Robert, Bugatti 2 L, finisher


As Lescot was winner of the second Grand Prix de la Marne, I’ve remembered that I have some historical articles about that race. In Automobilia n°3, June 1996, François Jolly wrote that Lescot was the pseudo of the leading industrialist Lebaudy.


QED

PS : One more confusion in the Black Books ?

[Hans Etzrodt]

Marc - thanks for your finding. I will change information on my hill climb list accordingly, to the best of my understanding.

[humphries]

Gerard

I do not have a photo of the Masrati 250F, 2521, used by Testut in 1959 but there are a number of TNFers who are Maserati experts and they probably have a photo.

John

[Hugo Boecker]

Long ago but not forgotten

Originally posted by humphries
Can anyone provide information on the earlier editions of the Limonest- Mont Verdun hill climb, organised by the A.C. du Rhone, up to the year 1968?

I believe the first event was held in 1905 and in April through to 1908. It may not have been held in 1909-1910 but was again held in May 1911 and 1912. The 1912 event was referred to as the VI edition and I think it was won by J.Deydier in a Cottin Desgouttes in 2 min 25.6 secs. On 26/5/1913 Fritz Erle won in the mighty Benz in 2 min 2.5 secs.

The problem for me is that the 1926 event was claimed to be the XIV edition. It was definitely held on 27/5/1923 ( Rene Thomas Delage ), 25/5/1924 ( Robert Benoist Delage ) and 7/6/1925 when Benoist lowered the time to 1 min 50.8 secs. Emmanuel Baboin won 16/5/1926 in his Bugatti 35 in 2 min 28.2 secs. Was it raining or was the course lengthened? So, was the event also run in 1914 or/and between 1920-1922?

I have two dates but no results for 12/6/1927 and 3/6/1928.

Then a big break to 22/9/1957 when somebody called Pittet won in his Ferrari 750S Monza in 2 min 19.2 secs, nothing for 1958, then 27/9/1959 when Andre Testut won in a 250F followed by Bernard Collomb in a Cooper-Climax in 1961. Charles Vogele won on 20/9/1964 in his 2.7 Brabham-Climax in 2 min 4 secs and other Swiss drivers on 16/9/1966 ( Harry Zweifel McLaren-Oldsmobile 1 min 50.1) and in 1967 with Georges Gachang in his Cegga-Ferrari 3.0 recording 1min 48.8.

Was the Limonest event held in 1958, 1960, 1962, 1963, 1965 and 1968 or between 1929-1956?

None of the above is Gospel! Any help with dates or results would be much appreciated.

John

Here are my contributions so far

22.09.1957  Francioise Picard  Ferrari Monza 750 S	   2:19,2

1958		?????????????

27.09.1959  Andre Testut	   Maserati 250F			

18.09.1960  Harry Zweifel	  Cooper Manacco  

1961		Bernard Collomb	Cooper-Climax

1962		?????????????

15.09.1963  Charles Vögele	 Brabham Climax 2.7	   1:58,8		  

20.09.1964  Charles Vögele	 Brabham_Climax 2.7	   2:04,2

19.09.1965  Georges Gachnang	  Cegga-Maserati		   

19.09.1966  Harry Zweifel	  McLaren Oldsmobile	   1:50,1

1967		Georges Gachnang   Cegga-Ferrari 3,0l	   1.48,8

1968		Pierre Maublanc	FIAT Abarth 2000SP