88 replies to this topic

[bobbo]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Can't possibly wish for that...

We'd have been denied the beauty of the Eagle.

Yeah, Ray, I agree, but maybe the Eagle would have come along about 1968-69 and had a Cosworth V8 . . .and maybe another WC for Dan?

Love playing "coulda been" sometimes!

Bobbo

[Ray Bell]

An Eagle's not an Eagle without that long lean Weslake V12...

Shame on you!

[cm50]

Guys,

At a particular time in life I would have put Jan Magnassun in anything. I saw this guy before the realities of modern motor racing overtook him...... he was awesome. Why otherwise would Sir Jackie have employed him. The first time I saw him Snetterton 1962........but knew him well and realised that talent isnt everything :

[cm50]

many sorries that was of course 1992..Foundation Racing .....Mick Goldney....Formula Ford......and then he got stuffed

[René de Boer]

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
From the lowlands:
Michael Bleekemolen & the Lotus "B" team in 1979
Huub Rothengatter & Tyrrell 1981 (He was outgunned by Alboreto. Perhaps a wise choice)
Jan Lammers & March 1993
Jos Verstappen & Honda

And what about Jos Verstappen in a McLaren? After all, that was the first F1-car he drove after winning the German F3-title with Willi Weber's WTS-team in 1993.

Moreover, I have always wondered what Jason Watt could have achieved, had it not been for his terrible accident. I am quite sure that he could have gone all the way. Still, remarkable what he has achieved ever since, both in and outside a race car. A really great character!

[Pieter]

Originally posted by René de Boer


And what about Jos Verstappen in a McLaren? After all, that was the first F1-car he drove after winning the German F3-title with Willi Weber's WTS-team in 1993.

The McLaren was Jos his second car, he drove the Footwork in October 1993.

[Ray Bell]

Nothing...

Pics of the cars with the Weslake engine just look... well... sexy. Just right, a good looking engine to go with a beautiful car.

[cheesy poofs]

Gilles Villeneuve and his own team... :

[Vicuna]

Ivan Capelli in anything other than a March/Leyton House in 1989, most of 1990 and 1991.

Ivan Capelli being given a fair crack at Ferrari in 1992.

Riccardo Patrese somewhere other than Alfa in 84/85, and not at Brabham in 86/87.

Gilles in a FW07.................or a BT49

[Falcadore]

If Enzo had gone another way and picked Alan Jones in 1977 instead of Gilles Villeneuve as AJ later said was possible.....

Or for that matter AJ in the four wheel drive Williams that didn't get banned....

Lauda and the fan car longer than a race......

Fisichella to Ferrari in 2001

Rindt staying with Brabham another year

Schumacher and the Jordan 192 Yamaha

[Falcadore]

Fangio and the D50???

[Falcadore]

Guess they don't get to shaft Peugeot quite so thoroughly. And maybe the Chrysler (Lamborghini) motor gets to hang around a bit longer too???

[Mohican]

The opening post of this thread mentioned Rinnie Peterson going to McLaren for 1979; perhaps hust as well that did not happen. Poor Ronnie would not have been amused by the McLaren implosion, not after suffering Lotus, March and Trrell in 1975-77.
Actually, he was very fast and competitive in the March 761; the record book does not show it due to the non-existent reliability of the thing.

However, back to the thread: what about Ronnie taking over as no 1 driver for UOP Shadow in early '75 ?

First of all, he would have severly altered history by making Shadow winners two years earlier than Alan Jones. Indeed, 1975 would have turned out to be Lauda vs Peterson for the title, Fittipaldi would have been nowhere. Further, UOP may well have continued in 1976 - and Shadow would have been a real force that year as well.
Further, the Shadow team would not have fallen apart the way it did, Hunt would not have been in a position to capitalise on Fittipaldi's development work of the M23, F1 would have had a totally different standing in the US, etc, etc.

Ronnie and Shadow was to my mind always THE lost opportunity of the 70's.

[gdecarli]

Nearly one year after latest post, I add a new combination I have just read. For sure it's not so interesting as the previous ones, but as I found I don't want to waste it.

OK, in 1981 Manfred Winkelhock could have replaced Jan Lammers on ATS #9 from Belgium GP, for all following GP. Previously he had already agreed to race Germany GP.

Indeed, reality was quite different: Lammers left the team, but he was replaced for all remaining GP by Slim Borgudd, who had already raced San Marino GP as second drivers. Winkelhock first GP on ATS was only at Kyalami 1982, so even agreed Germany GP 1981 was not raced.

Source: Autosprint 20/1981, page 86 (issue between San Marino and Belgium GP)

Ciao,
Guido

[swintex]

Stefan Bellof in anything.

[D-Type]

Suppose Roy Salvadori had decided not to join Aston Martin and joined Brabham at Cooper in 1959. He was at his peak at that time and would in all probability have taken points from Jack on occasion. Then we might have seen Tony Brooks as champion in a Ferrari. Would the rear engined revolution been delayed? Or could we have seen Stirling take the championship?

And who was it suggested Tony Brooks in the 1962 BRM?

Jackie Stewart going to Ferrari? The cars weren't that brilliant between 1964 and 73 so might his career have never taken off?

Ascari in a Ferrari in 1954 -55? Or even a Maserati? Fangio and Mercedes would certainly have not found it as easy!

Going into fantasy-land

Archie Scott Brown in a Vanwall. Given his 1956 performances in the Connaught, it might have been. Or Archie in a Cooper? The oversteer would have suited his style.

A motivated Tony Brooks in a Lotus 18 or later a 25

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by Ralliart
... After his sensational debut with McLaren, apparently Villeneuve heard from ferrari and only Ferrari (if other teams were interested in him, I've never heard) but no definite word for a long time and had to call them back under false pretenses whereupon he was asked to come to Maranello. If another team had contacted him in the interim (like McLaren), that's food for thought.

Ferrari were also evaluating the possibility of Alan Jones at the time they plumped for Villeneuve. If Jonesy had been picked instead it would have changed the entire face of F1 for the next five or six years.


But also - if the relationship between Moss and Il Commandetore (sp) had been happier than what it was.....

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by D-Type
Suppose Roy Salvadori had decided not to join Aston Martin and joined Brabham at Cooper in 1959. He was at his peak at that time and would in all probability have taken points from Jack on occasion. Then we might have seen Tony Brooks as champion in a Ferrari. Would the rear engined revolution been delayed? Or could we have seen Stirling take the championship?

Or supposing Salvadori succeeded in convincing his mate Brabham to join him at Aston Martin, now where does THAT place the rear drive revolution....

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
Jim Clark in a Lotus 72

[Ruairidh]

Gilles in a Lotus in 1979.

[Falcadore]

or perhaps in a Williams

[BertlF]

I remember reading (maybe is was one of Berger's own books), that Gerhard Berger has informally agreed to drive for Williams in 1996 - then came Jacques Villeneuve from CART - presumably cheaper than Berger.

Imagine Berger in 1996/1997 in a Williams fighting it out against Schumacher, Hill etc.

Has anybody more background on this?

Bert

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by petefenelon
I reckon if Gilles was going to go anywhere it would've been Brabham - Bernie could've had him instead of Piquet - or, knowing Bernie, could've had him and Piquet... that pretty much locks up the 80s, after BMW get the engine reliable... Put Gilles into a decent Gordon Murray car and you wouldn't see him for the dust, I reckon.

I'm drooling here, projecting him forwards a few years, with a 1400bhp BMW 'grenade' qualifying engine in '86.....;)

He was negotiating with McLaren during '81 I understood.
Given his anger about Pironi's behaviour in '82, I can imagine him to accept the offer.
I was told Autosport magazine printed an article about what McLaren would have looked like if Gilles made it to McLaren, I missed that edition...

Regrettably, the BMW 1000+ grenades were only good when put into a Benetton, Brabham was going off since '85 already. perhaps not if Gilles would ahve been with them but that remains a perhaps.


Henri Greuter

[Pikachu Racing]

In other racing:

Dale Earnhardt/Junior Johnson. Junior Johnson was set to give Dale Earnhardt a contract to drive for him to replace Darrell Waltrip. Earnhardt wrecks Waltrip at Richmond and Johnson cancels his offer. (source: Darrell Watrip autobiography)

Tony Stewart at Indy 2003. He showed up on last day of qualifying with rumors swirling he was attempt to qualify in the last hour but never did. It was most likely a publicity stunt.

Ryan Briscoe at Indy 2006. Was set to qualify in AJ Foyt machine on the last minutes but never made it on track.

[caneparo]

Moss was actually hired by Ferrari to make a race in Bari. But when he arrived in Puglia he noted that his car had been given to Taruffi. Then he decided that he would have never driven for Ferrari. Actually he drove the Ferrari GTO and was supposed to join the team but he had that accident that ended his carreer.

Something similiar happened to Stewart. He was called to Maranello to sign a deal for 1968. When he arrived in Italy he put in contact with Jacky Ickx who told him that he had been hired by the italian team. Then Stewart called Gozzi telling he was fouled and Gozzi assured that Ickx had not been hired but then he said that Ickx told him like that and the meeting didn't happen

[Vincenzo Lancia]

Originally posted by cm50
Guys,

At a particular time in life I would have put Jan Magnassun in anything. I saw this guy before the realities of modern motor racing overtook him...... he was awesome. Why otherwise would Sir Jackie have employed him. The first time I saw him Snetterton 1962........but knew him well and realised that talent isnt everything :

Sorry (or maybe proud as I seem to be the first) to quote a 3 year old post, but I happen to agree. Jan Magnussen won more races when he won the british f3 championship than Ayrton Senna did when he did the same....

Don't agree about the year 1962 though...

Apart from that I'd like to see even the elder Fangio handle a rear-engined car. According to roumors I THINK I can recall he was VERY fast when driving early 60'es F1 cars.

I'm sure someone can enlighten me on this....

[David M. Kane]

Cheesy Poofs...Gilles own team? I followed a Sports Racer recently that I think had two skimobile motors...it did 2:24 around Road America which is very respectable. How about an Italian chassis by DeTomaso with 8 skimobile motors?

Email me please!

Ciao,

[Keir]

Amon/Rodriguez @ Ferrari 1970

[David M. Kane]

Keir:

Pedro/Chris would have been awesome; now that I would have loved to see!

[D-Type]

Wasn't the original agenda that, having cut their teeth in the Mercedes sports car team MS and his peers would move to West-McLaren-Mercedes to produce an all-German team?

But Frentzen etc never bloomed, and MS went to Ferrari instead.

[FerrariV12]

Originally posted by D-Type
Wasn't the original agenda that, having cut their teeth in the Mercedes sports car team MS and his peers would move to West-McLaren-Mercedes to produce an all-German team?

But Frentzen etc never bloomed, and MS went to Ferrari instead.

Possibly. On the 1991 F1 Review video, they interviewed Tom Walkinshaw, then of Benetton, about signing Schuey towards the end of '91, and he said words to the effect that they had a contract with Schumacher until the end of 1995, with the exception of if the Mercedes factory entered F1, then they would have the right to re-acquire his contract. I'm not sure whether this only applied to a 1955-style full blown works effort, rather than as an engine supplier to Sauber and McLaren. I think Mercedes didn't actually take a stake in McLaren until long after 1995, or did they?

[StraightEdge]

Almost combination. Sam Hornish was close to jumping from IRL to NASCAR few years earlier in 2004 driving for DEI. A certain owner put the kibosh on it
https://twitter.com/...544358771576836

Edited by StraightEdge, 13 February 2022 - 01:49.

[dbltop]

Probably a good thing . Hornish was terrible in Nascar. I was at Darlington the year he drove the #77 and he rubbed the number off the right side door three times!!!

[BRG]

Don't they say that rubbin' is racin'?

[rl1856]

Lots of great "what ifs" !

 

Godiva V8 actually being developed in period would have had far ranging impact.   

 

Aston Martin entering their GP car in 1957 or 1958....instead of 1959, with Roy Salvadori as #1.....and if in 1957 possibly Tony Brooks for support.

 

Tony Stewart in F1.  He had the talent, could take anything and put it at the front of the grid, and saw a new car/series as a challenge to be overcome.  However, he preferred to stay close to home, and was never happier than driving in a dirt track race at track no one heard of, just for the fun of it.

 

Tony Brooks in a '62 BRM.   We lament how he was treated in 1961, however his scathing letter written during his departure may have changed how BRM operated their GP team.  If one considers the performance of Richie Ginther, it may be fair to conclude that he and Hill were given more or less equal cars, which was a main point of criticism from Brooks during his tenure with the team.

 

Phil HIll at BRM in 1962.  BRM did consider him, and he did meet with Tony Rudd (?) but he stayed at Ferrari.    Phil HIll at Cooper- with a mechanic who prepared the car correctly !

 

Surtees remaining at Ferrari in 1966....a WDC, his for the asking.

 

Mario Andretti arriving in F1 earlier, and devoting more time to F1 overall.

 

BRM running a standard 2 car team instead of trying to dominate the grid by shear numbers.  The cars were good c1970-72 but suffered from reliability and preparation deficiencies.  For that matter, what if they used the successful 1.5 V8 to create a V12, instead of the complex H16 ?.  They may have enjoyed enough success to have kept JYS.

 

Cevert living on.  Likely that the 007 would have been a different chassis, as it was more or less designed for driver's who did not have the native ability of Stewart and Cevert.  The chassis was front line in 1974-75-76, and formed the basis for the P34.

 

Revson surviving and being a contender for the 74 WDC.  Then Ronnie as co #`1 in 1975.

Edited by rl1856, 15 February 2022 - 13:36.

[WonderWoman61]

Michael Andretti had a Ferrari contract for 1992.

[WonderWoman61]

John Nielsen and the secret Volkswagen 1980s F1 project.
https://www.motorspo...980s-f1-project

[jeffbee]

Clay Regazzoni in a DFV powered Tecno.

[WonderWoman61]

John Nielsen and the secret Volkswagen 1980s F1 project.
https://www.motorspo...980s-f1-project

For further proof:
https://forums.autos...80s-f1-project/