22 replies to this topic

[Rainer Nyberg]

This is a mystery that has haunted me for some time, there seems to be no consensus on the spelling of poor Jean-Christophe often nicknamed 'Jules'.

You get many hits on both versions of his spelling on both Google and Atlas BB. Seems like that french websites are more leaning towards BOUILLON. Among others, Pescarolo Sports has his name spelled that way.

FORIX has him as BOULLION, and his signature there doesn't give much clue either.

Maybe somebody knows for sure or has a picture of him in his race-suit or a pic of him in a car with his name clearly on the car....!?

[cheesy poofs]

Rainer,

Try this link . It should answer your question.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Thanks for the image, and it says BOULLION on the race-suit too....

Seems like a recent pic with 'Jules' in his Pescarolo Sport outfit...

But they seem to have problems with the spelling too...

http://www.pescarolo...asp?nb=70&tri=1

BOUILLON on the headline but BOULLION a couple of lines further down...

[Vitesse2]

Boullion is correct. If it was Bouillon, his name would translate as "Mr Soup"!

I suspect computer spellcheckers may be guilty of changing Jules' name ....

[ensign14]

Y'know, I thought this thread was about Pierre 'Levegh'...

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by ensign14
Y'know, I thought this thread was about Pierre 'Levegh'...

Velgh

But I've always wondered: is Jean-Christophe related to Pierre? And thus to Velgh, which would provide a family link to the dawn of motor racing.

[Olivier Favre]

I think the real name of "Levegh" was Bouillin ...

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by Vitesse2


But I've always wondered: is Jean-Christophe related to Pierre?

No.

[Prostfan]

Another question related to this: Is the voiturette-driver from around 1910 called Giosuè Guippone or Giuppone?

[Muzza]

Originally posted by Prostfan
Another question related to this: Is the voiturette-driver from around 1910 called Giosuè Guippone or Giuppone?

pyrytus sent me an e-mail on this concern about two weeks ago and I have to agree with him: it is Giosuè Giuppone.

First, "Guippone" does not "sound right" in Italian (I am paraphrasing Guido in his comments about Giovanni Salvati - and not "Salvatti").

More important than that, pyrytus did some research and found that there is nobody in Italy with "Guippone" as a surname. Giuppone, even though a rare name itself (there are less than 45 people in Italy with this name!), does exist and it is mostly found in Piemonte.

Somehow someone (mostly likely a French journalist) made an error, maybe a typo, many years ago and the mistake was propagated - to the point that, today, references spelling "Guippone" outnumber the correct form.

Regards,


Muzza

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by Muzza
Somehow someone (mostly likely a French journalist) made an error, maybe a typo, many years ago and the mistake was propagated - to the point that, today, references spelling "Guippone" outnumber the correct form.
Muzza

Which yet again confirms what I have been saying for a long time: The web is populated by vast numbers of plagiarists who have no concern whether the material they display is correct or not. So "most common spelling" or "most common date" seem to be more often the wrong one, rather than the right one.

[Tim Murray]

Look at the many people who spell the very common name Giuseppe as 'Guiseppe'. Poor old Giuppone has very little chance.

[humphries]

To some extent I have to agree with Barry. Plagiarists are commonplace on the net in general.

The most plagiarised author concerned with race facts and figures, away from the mainstream, is Paul Sheldon. Often I look at sites, or the bibliographies in published books, and the pot-boilers have listed virtually every book and periodical they can think of in order to give the impression they have done some huge amounts of research.

When you look at these lists you realise all the pre-Sheldon books listed could not have provided much of the information, and neither could have all the magazines listed.

For me the most annoying aspect are the claims of some folk that they have also compiled records as detailed as Paul Sheldon's when it is obvious all they have done is to revise a few mistakes and added extra information to Sheldon's vast research. A large amount of what they display they would have had absolutely no clue about without the Black Books.

As TNfers know the Black Books and their addenda were produced some time ago now and with the coming of the internet fresh information is being provided all the time, plus Paul and his associates have continued with their detailed research.

I will bet you one thing; when the second editions are produced the plagiarists are going to have a lot of copying to do!

John

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
Look at the many people who spell the very common name Giuseppe as 'Guiseppe'. Poor old Giuppone has very little chance.

Funny thing; I was going to raise this one as an example.

When I was a kid, a friend (actually more of an enemy than a friend, come to think of it) always called Farina "Gwee-sepp" Farina.

I knew nothing of the Italian language at the time, but was fairly sure that wasn't right. I clearly remember trying to confirm the spelling, at least, as "Giu-, not Gui-" but was surprised at how often it was spelled the latter way in Australian publications (the way he wanted to believe was correct).

Years later, I finally discovered that the common Italian name I had heard over the years, "Je-seppi" was actually the "Giuseppe" I'd always wondered about.

If I'd had a computer... and the Internet... and TNF... and someone to pay for it all, I wouldn't have had to agonise over it for so many years.

I had the same problem after reading in a magazine that a car had a "DOHC" engine.

Kids these days probably don't realise how easy it is for them to find answers to just about any question known to mankind.

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by humphries
...the Black Books and their addenda were produced some time ago now and with the coming of the internet fresh information is being provided all the time, plus Paul and his associates have continued with their detailed research.

I will bet you one thing; when the second editions are produced the plagiarists are going to have a lot of copying to do!

John

Is this a fact?

Will there be second editions of the Sheldon "Black Books" (and the blue ones too, I hope).

I would like to think so, given all the corrections that have emerged via TNF.

Perhaps there should be collaboration between Sheldon and the TNF experts - at the very least at the proof-reading stage.

[humphries]

Although the publication date is some way away ( years rather than months, I fear ) the Black Books and Blue Books are to be combined plus masses of additional material covering F.Libre ( Argentina to Zimbabwe, well Rhodesia ! ), Formula A/5000, AAA etc etc.

Some of the information that has appeared on TNF, plus far more information that hasn't appeared on TNF, has already been added to the records, some of it acquired years ago. Remember the first volume of the Black Books appeared in 1987 and the addenda and other books covering the years up to 1970 were all published by 1994, a long time before TNF came into existence.

During this 10 to17 year period Paul Sheldon and his associates have been revising and back-filling continually, but understandably the information is subject to copyright.

I have always maintained that because Paul actually got his show on the road, despite imperfections, many historians and enthusiasts have had access to and benefitted from a most useful reference source.

But whenever the second editions appear you can guarantee someone will unearth some new information straight afterwards, probably one of the people directly involved with the Bluey-Black Books!

Some TNFers already have contributed to the F1R and there are others whose contributions would be greatly valued. So long as they do not expect a financial return or access to the master CD their help would be appreciated but as they say, no time-wasters please.

John

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by humphries
I have always maintained that because Paul actually got his show on the road, despite imperfections, many historians and enthusiasts have had access to and benefitted from a most useful reference source.

I absolutely agree. They are wonderful books, and we owe Paul and all his collaborators grateful thanks.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Tim Murray


I absolutely agree. They are wonderful books, and we owe Paul and all his collaborators grateful thanks.

If I could pick a volume, it would be my Desert Island Book. Probably 1 for all the obscure cyclecar races. And thanks especially to Betty 'Neubauer Nemesis' Sheldon!

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by Barry Lake
Funny thing; I was going to raise this one as an example.

When I was a kid, a friend (actually more of an enemy than a friend, come to think of it) always called Farina "Gwee-sepp" Farina.

Even funnier: in Italy Giuseppe Farina in known as Nino Farina

Right spelling of Giuseppe should be something similar to Juseppe in English, in such a way:
- JU like in Judy
- SEP like in September
- PE like in pet

(more or less)

By the way, when I was a child, I liked a driver called Gilles Villenevue: do you know him?

Ciao,
Guido

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by gdecarli
Even funnier: in Italy Giuseppe Farina in known as Nino Farina

Yes, and it was probably decades later that I learned that!

I suppose the writers in the English-language magazines that we read in those days didn't feel familiar enough with him to call him by his nickname.

[David McKinney]

We must have read different books, Barry
I always knew he was Nino - possibly from a reference in some "boys' book"?

BTW gdecarli, I don't get the joke

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by David McKinney
BTW gdecarli, I don't get the joke

The joke is that while some English-speaking wonder if Giuseppe or Guiseppe is right and how to pronunce it; here in Italy we use only his nickname, much easier to write and to pronunce!

Ciao,
Guido

[David McKinney]

doh