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1911 French Grand Prix


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#1 fines

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 10:29

Does anyone have the complete results of this race? All I could come up with in a hurry was William Court's report in Power & Glory:

1 Victor Hémery, #13 Fiat S61, 12 laps, 7:06'30", 52.5 mph, SP 9

not classified:
Ernest Friderich, #14 Bugatti T13, 10 laps, flagged (7:16'50"), SP 10
Fernand Gabriel, Rolland-Pilain (1911 GP), 9 laps, flagged (8:04'38.6"), SP 13
? Leduc, Côte (1911 VL), 8 laps, retired? (6:19'33"), SP 14
Arthur Duray, Lorraine-Dietrich (1906 GP), ? laps, differential, SP 3
Victor Rigal, #11 Rolland-Pilain (1911 GP), ? laps, ?, SP 7
? Barriaux, Alcyon (1911 VL), ? laps, ?, SP 2
Maurice Fournier, Corre-La Licorne (1907 GP), ~ 5 laps, fatal accident, SP 1
Jacques Fauquet ("Anford"), Rolland-Pilain (1911 GP), 2 laps, axle, SP 11
Paul Rivière, Excelsior (1911 VL), ~ 2 laps, timing gears, SP 5
? Deydier, #12 Cottin-Desgouttes (?), ~ 1 lap, steering (?), SP 8
? Anthony, #10 Porthos (1908 GP), 1 lap, cylinder, SP 6
? Ollier (Olier?), Côte (1911 VL), ~ 1 lap, cylinder, SP 12
C. de Vere, Côte (1911 VL), 0 laps, retired, SP 4

did not appear:
? ?, Lorraine-Dietrich
? ?, Lorraine-Dietrich
? ?, Lorraine-Dietrich
? ?, (Lion-)Peugeot
? ?, (Lion-)Peugeot
? ?, (Lion-)Peugeot
? ?, Hispano-Suiza
? ?, Hispano-Suiza
? ?, Hispano-Suiza
? ?, National
? ?, National
? ?, National
? ?, (Marquette-)Buick

Can anyone add something, like numbers, laps completed, reason for retirement, type of car, first name etc. Anything? :cat:


__________________
If you prick us, do we not bleed?
If you tickle us, do we not laugh?
If you poison us, do we not die?
And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?
If we are like you in the rest
We will resemble you in that

If a Jew wrong a Christian
What is his humility?
Revenge!

If a Christian wrong a Jew
What should his sufferance be by Christian example?
Why, revenge!

The villany you teach me I will execute
And it shall go hard but I will better the instruction

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#2 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 11:30

Michael - how do you do it? :lol: Always springing surprises. :confused: Now a 1911 French GP!? :p

#3 Vitesse2

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 12:43

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Michael - how do you do it? :lol: Always springing surprises. :confused: Now a 1911 French GP!? :p


Baffled me for a moment too, Hans! But Michael's referring to the AC de l'Ouest's GP de France aka the Grand Prix des Vieux Tacots.

All I can add is that King-Farlow has a different average speed: 56.71mph. Rendall (Chequered Flag) just says Friedrich (sic :rolleyes: ) was ten minutes behind - no mention of two laps!

#4 GIGLEUX

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 19:45

Michael, be careful with French GP which usually connected with the Grand Prix de l'ACF (from 1906 up to 1967). From 1968 we have the Grand Prix de France (F1 WC event).
Before that we have some Grands Prix de France:
-in 1911 organized by the AC de la Sarthe et de l'Ouest
-in the thirties, organized by the Moto Club de France
-in 1949 at Reims, organized by the fédération of the main AC
-in 1952 a serie of races calld Grands Prix de France.

The 1911 event:
Raced near Le Mans on a triangular circuit of 54,600 km to be covered 12 times (655,200 km).

Entry list:
N.1 Koechlin Koechlin DNA
N.2 Fournier M. Corre-La Licorne
N.3 Barriaux Alcyon VL
N.4 Porporato Grégoire DNA
N.5 Duray Lorraine-Dietrich
N.6 De Vere Côte VL
N.7 Mathis Mathis DNA
N.8 Boulay Ford DNA
N.9 Rivière Excelsior VL
N.10 Anthony Porthos
N.11 Rigal Rolland-Pilin
N.12 Deydier Cottin-Desgouttes
N.13 Hémery FIAT
N.14 Friederich Bugatti VL
N.15 Fauquet Rolland-Pilain
N.16 Olier Côte VL
N.17 Coosemans Excelsior VL DNA
N.18 Gabriel Rolland-Pilain
N.19 Leduc Côte VL
N.20 Faudi Excelsior VL DNA
N.21 X X DNA

DNA= Did not Arrive
VL= Voiture Légère= Light Car

Classification:
1. Hémery 12 laps 7.06.30 91,173 km/h (other source: 91,265 km/h)
2. Friederich 10 laps 7.16.50 74,995 km/h (other source 7.56.15 74,311 km/h)
3. Gabriel 9 laps 8.04.38.6 (or 8.04.26.6)
4. Leduc 8 laps 6.19.33

First indication is from E.Cohin book, second one from La Vie au Grand Air.

Michael, I can also provide positions of first six cars lap by lap if you are interested.

#5 Vitesse2

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 22:05

King-Farlow's speed must be derived from Jean-Maurice's "other source", since it's within 0.1mph.

Thing is, I make the average speed 91.759km/h = 57.028mph! :

#6 fines

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 22:41

Thanks very much, Jean-Maurice! :clap: :clap: :)

Originally posted by GIGLEUX
Michael, I can also provide positions of first six cars lap by lap if you are interested.

Yes, I am! :cat:


__________________
But if the cause be not good
The king himself has a heavy reckoning to make
When all those legs and arms and heads
Chopped off in a battle
Shall join together at the latter day
And cry all 'We died at such a place'

Some swearing, some crying for a surgeon
Some upon their wives left poor behind them
Some upon the debts they owe
Some upon their children rawly left

I am afeared there are few die well
That die in a battle
For how can they charitably dispose of any thing
When blood is their argument?
Now, if these men do not die well
It will be a black matter
For the king that led them to it

#7 fines

fines
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Posted 31 August 2003 - 22:50

I also found another first name: Cyril de Vere


__________________
But if the cause be not good
The king himself has a heavy reckoning to make
When all those legs and arms and heads
Chopped off in a battle
Shall join together at the latter day
And cry all 'We died at such a place'

Some swearing, some crying for a surgeon
Some upon their wives left poor behind them
Some upon the debts they owe
Some upon their children rawly left

I am afeared there are few die well
That die in a battle
For how can they charitably dispose of any thing
When blood is their argument?
Now, if these men do not die well
It will be a black matter
For the king that led them to it

#8 GIGLEUX

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 23:34

So, we continue:

LAP 1:
1. Deydier 29.45.6
2. Fauquet 30.05.00
3. Fournier 30.29.00
4. Hémery 31.08.4
5. Duray 31.50.00
6. Gabriel 32.11.00

LAP 2:
1. Fournier 1.01.04
2. Fauquet 1.01.06
3. Hémery 1.04.22.2
4. Duray 1.07.05
5. Barriaux 1.08.25
6. Rigal 1.23.40
FL Fournier 30.35

LAP 3:
1. Fournier 1.35.00
2. Duray 1.39.22
3. Barriaux 1.45.23
4. Hémery 1.45.39.8
5. Rigal 1.54.41.6
6. Friederich 2.18.12.2
FL Rigal 30.54

LAP 4:
1. Duray 2.12.41.6
2.Fournier 2.18.09
3. Hémery 2.21.29
4. Barriaux 2.23.39
5. Rigal 2.26.00
6. Friederich 2.58.35
FL Rigal 31.19

LAP 5:
1. Duray 2.45.48
2. Fournier 2.49.48.2
3. Hémery 2.51.05
4. Barriaux 3.02.27
5. Rigal 3.04.00
6. Friederich 3.44.28
FL Hémery 29.36 109,454 km/h

LAP 6:
1. Duray 3.24.29
2. Hémery 3.32.17
3. Barriaux 3.05.53
4. Friederich 4.27.35
5. Leduc 4.48.22
6. Gabriel 5.20.32
FL Gabriel 35.20

LAP 7:
1. Hémery 4.06.53.2
2. Duray 4.07.51.2
3. Friederich 5.48.35
4. Leduc 5.49.37
5. Gabriel 6.40.42
FL Hémery 34.36

LAP 8:
1. Hémery 4.38.44.4
2. Duray 4.45.6
3. Friederich 5.48.35
4. Leduc 6.19.33
5. Gabriel 7.31.53.4
FL Hémery 32.51

LAP 9:
1. Hémery 5.20.33
2. Friederich 6.53.56.6
3. Gabriel 8.04.26.6
FL Gabriel 32.33

LAP 10:
1. Hémery 5.58.32
2. Friederich 7.56.15
FL Hémery 37.59

LAP 11:
1. Hémery 6.33.02.6
FL Hémery (of course) 34.30

LAP 12:
1. Hémery 7.06.30
Last lap in 33.28

From La Vie au Grand Air, issue covering the event.
Entry list from friend Edmond Cohin

Good receipt Michael.

#9 quintin cloud

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Posted 01 September 2003 - 06:58

Fines here is the result that list on page:

1 9 Victor Hemery Fiat 12 laps (7:06'30")
2 10 Ernest Friderich Bugatti T13 10 laps (7:16'50")
3 13 Fernand Gabriel Rolland Pilain 9 laps (8:04'38")
4 14 Leduc Cote 8 laps (8:19'33")

not classified:

x 1 Maurice Fournier Corre-La Licorne fatal accident
x 2 Barriaux Alcyon (light car)
x 3 Arthur Duray Lorraine-Dietrich ca. 6 differential
x 4 Cyril De Vere Cote 0
x 5 Paul Rivierne Excelsior (light car) lost timing gears
x 6 Anthony Porthos 1 cracked cylinder
x 7 Victor Rigal Rolland Pilain
x 8 Deydier Couttin-Desgouttes
x 11 Fauquest Rolland Pilain 2 broken axle
x 12 Olier Cote 1 cracked cylinder


I hope that it will help with missing data :smoking:

#10 fines

fines
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Posted 01 September 2003 - 14:37

:) :love: :)

#11 fines

fines
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Posted 01 September 2003 - 19:02

Just for the fun of it (and to show Ray that I can do posts much longer than my signature...;))

**** GapChart Race Analysis (c) Michael Ferner 2003-09-01



1911-F (data source - La Vie au Grand Air 1911 - William Court 1966 - Edmond Cohin/Jean-Maurice Gigleux 2003)





**** Final Results



FP  SP   # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L   Gap to P

 1   9  13 Hémery	   Fiat				  12  7:06'30.0"   29'36.0"   5   91.2 kph

 2  10  14 Friderich	Bugatti			   10  7:56'15.0"   40'22.8"   4	 2 Laps	flagged

 3  13  18 Gabriel	  Rolland-Pilain		 9  8:04'26.6"   32'11.0"   1	 3 Laps	flagged

 4   3   5 Duray		Lorraine-Dietrich	  8  4:45'06.0"   31'50.0"   1	 4 Laps transmiss.

 5  14  19 Leduc		Côte				   8  6:19'33.0"   29'56.0"   8	 4 Laps  flagged ?

 6   2   3 Barriaux	 Alcyon				 6  4:05'53.0"   34'12.0"   1	 6 Laps	retired

 7   1   2 Fournier	 Corre-La Licorne	   5  2:49'48.2"   30'29.0"   1	 7 Laps   accident

 8   7  11 Rigal		Rolland-Pilain		 5  3:04'00.0"   31'01.6"   3	 7 Laps	retired

 9  11  15 Fauquet	  Rolland-Pilain		 2  1:01'06.0"   30'05.0"   1	10 Laps	chassis

10   5   9 Rivière	  Excelsior			  2  1:24'00.0"   42'00.0"   1	10 Laps	 engine

11   8  12 Deydier	  Cottin-Desgouttes	  1	29'45.6"   29'45.6"   1	11 Laps	chassis

12   6  10 Anthony	  Porthos				1	43'00.0"   43'00.0"   1	11 Laps	 engine

13  12  16 Olier		Côte				   1	44'00.0"   44'00.0"   1	11 Laps	 engine

14   4   6 Vere		 Côte				   0		0.0"	   0.0"   0	12 Laps	retired



Legend:  FP  Finishing Position

		 SP  Starting Position

		  L  Leader

		  P  Position ahead





**** Race Positions Lap for Lap



FP   # Driver		SP	1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12



 1  13 Hémery		 9	4  3  4  3  3  2  1  1  1  1  1  1

 2  14 Friderich	 10   12  8  6  6  6  4  3  3  2  2	  

 3  18 Gabriel	   13	6  9  8  8  8  6  5  5  3		 

 4   5 Duray		  3	5  4  2  1  1  1  2  2			

 5  19 Leduc		 14   13 10  7  7  7  5  4  4			

 6   3 Barriaux	   2	7  5  3  4  4  3				  

 7   2 Fournier	   1	3  1  1  2  2					 

 8  11 Rigal		  7	8  6  5  5  5					 

 9  15 Fauquet	   11	2  2							  

10   9 Rivière		5	9  7							  

11  12 Deydier		8	1								 

12  10 Anthony		6   10								 

13  16 Olier		 12   11								 

14   6 Vere		   4									  



Legend: FP  Finishing Position

		SP  Starting Position





**** Lap Chart



Pos:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14



 SO:  2  3  5  6r 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 18 19   #6 retired



  1: 12c15  2 13  5 18  3!11! 9!10!16!14!19!  #3 ~  #9 ~  #10 ~/engine (cylinder)  #11 ~  #12 chassis (steering)  #14 ~  #16 ~/engine (cylinder)  #19 ~

  2:  2 15c13  5  3!11! 9!14!18!19!  #3 ~  #9 ~/engine (timing gears)  #11 ~  #14 ~  #15 chassis (axle)  #18   #19 ~

  3:  2  5  3 13 11!14!19!18!  #11 +7.6"  #14 ~  #18   #19 ~

  4:  5  2 13  3 11!14 19!18!  #11 -0.6"  #18   #19 ~

  5:  5  2a13  3 11r14 19!18!  #2 accident (front axle/fatal)  #11 retired  #18   #19 ~

  6:  5 13  3!14 19!18   #3 ~/retired  #19 ~

  7: 13! 5 14!19 18   #13 +0.2"  #14 ~

  8: 13! 5t14!19=18   #5 transmission (differential)  #13 -59.8"  #14 ~  #19 flagged (?)

  9: 13 14 18=  #18 flagged

 10: 13 14=  #14 flagged

 11: 13!  #13 +0.6"

 12: 13!  #13 -0.6"



Legend: Pos  Position at end of lap

		 SO  Starting Order

		  a  accident - out of race

		  c  chassis damage - out of race

		  d  disqualified - out of race

		  e  engine failure - out of race

		  f  fuel feed failure - out of race

		  g  gearbox failure - out of race

		  i  ignition failure - out of race

		  l  leaking liquid - out of race

		  m  mechanical failure not specified - out of race

		  o  overheated - out of race

		  r  reason not specified - out of race

		  s  supercharging failure - out of race

		  t  transmission failure - out of race

		  w  withdrawn - out of race

		  :  did not start (DNS)

		  *  (pit) stop - returned to race

		  +  off track - returned to race

		  &  spin - returned to race

		  =  flagged off running at end of race

		  ~  information suspect - may have happened earlier/later or for a different reason (from the one specified)

		  ?  information suspect - may not have happened at all

		  !  time adjustment made from original data source

		  Capital letters denote pit stops with driver change as detailed to the right





**** Race Standings Lap for Lap



Lap 1 -   54.060 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1  12 Deydier	  Cottin-Desgouttes	  1	29'45.6"   29'45.6"   1  108.9 kph

 2  15 Fauquet	  Rolland-Pilain		 1	30'05.0"   30'05.0"   1	  19.4"

 3   2 Fournier	 Corre-La Licorne	   1	30'29.0"   30'29.0"   1	  43.4"

 4  13 Hémery	   Fiat				   1	31'08.4"   31'08.4"   1	1'22.8"

 5   5 Duray		Lorraine-Dietrich	  1	31'50.0"   31'50.0"   1	2'04.4"

 6  18 Gabriel	  Rolland-Pilain		 1	32'11.0"   32'11.0"   1	2'25.4"

 7   3 Barriaux	 Alcyon				 1	34'12.0"   34'12.0"   1	4'26.4"

 8  11 Rigal		Rolland-Pilain		 1	41'50.0"   41'50.0"   1   12'04.4"

 9   9 Rivière	  Excelsior			  1	42'00.0"   42'00.0"   1   12'14.4"

10  10 Anthony	  Porthos				1	43'00.0"   43'00.0"   1   13'14.4"

11  16 Olier		Côte				   1	44'00.0"   44'00.0"   1   14'14.4"

12  14 Friderich	Bugatti				1	46'04.0"   46'04.0"   1   16'18.4"

13  19 Leduc		Côte				   1	48'03.0"   48'03.0"   1   18'17.4"



Lap 2 -  108.120 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1   2 Fournier	 Corre-La Licorne	   2  1:01'04.0"   30'29.0"   1  106.2 kph

 2  15 Fauquet	  Rolland-Pilain		 2  1:01'06.0"   30'05.0"   1	   2.0"

 3  13 Hémery	   Fiat				   2  1:04'22.2"   31'08.4"   1	3'18.2"

 4   5 Duray		Lorraine-Dietrich	  2  1:07'05.0"   31'50.0"   1	6'01.0"

 5   3 Barriaux	 Alcyon				 2  1:08'25.0"   34'12.0"   1	7'21.0"

 6  11 Rigal		Rolland-Pilain		 2  1:23'40.0"   41'50.0"   1   22'36.0"

 7   9 Rivière	  Excelsior			  2  1:24'00.0"   42'00.0"   1   22'56.0"

 8  14 Friderich	Bugatti				2  1:32'08.0"   46'04.0"   1   31'04.0"

 9  18 Gabriel	  Rolland-Pilain		 2  1:35'26.0"   32'11.0"   1   34'22.0"

10  19 Leduc		Côte				   2  1:36'06.0"   48'03.0"   1   35'02.0"



Lap 3 -  162.180 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1   2 Fournier	 Corre-La Licorne	   3  1:35'00.0"   30'29.0"   1  102.4 kph

 2   5 Duray		Lorraine-Dietrich	  3  1:39'22.0"   31'50.0"   1	4'22.0"

 3   3 Barriaux	 Alcyon				 3  1:45'23.0"   34'12.0"   1   10'23.0"

 4  13 Hémery	   Fiat				   3  1:45'39.8"   31'08.4"   1   10'39.8"

 5  11 Rigal		Rolland-Pilain		 3  1:54'41.6"   31'01.6"   3   19'41.6"

 6  14 Friderich	Bugatti				3  2:18'12.2"   46'04.0"   1   43'12.2"

 7  19 Leduc		Côte				   3  2:24'10.0"   48'03.0"   1   49'10.0"

 8  18 Gabriel	  Rolland-Pilain		 3  2:38'41.0"   32'11.0"   1 1:03'41.0"



Lap 4 -  216.240 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1   5 Duray		Lorraine-Dietrich	  4  2:12'41.6"   31'50.0"   1   97.7 kph

 2   2 Fournier	 Corre-La Licorne	   4  2:18'09.0"   30'29.0"   1	5'27.4"

 3  13 Hémery	   Fiat				   4  2:21'29.0"   31'08.4"   1	8'47.4"

 4   3 Barriaux	 Alcyon				 4  2:23'39.0"   34'12.0"   1   10'57.4"

 5  11 Rigal		Rolland-Pilain		 4  2:26'00.0"   31'01.6"   3   13'18.4"

 6  14 Friderich	Bugatti				4  2:58'35.0"   40'22.8"   4   45'53.4"

 7  19 Leduc		Côte				   4  3:12'14.0"   48'03.0"   1   59'32.4"

 8  18 Gabriel	  Rolland-Pilain		 4  3:41'56.0"   32'11.0"   1 1:29'14.4"



Lap 5 -  270.300 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1   5 Duray		Lorraine-Dietrich	  5  2:45'48.0"   31'50.0"   1   97.8 kph

 2   2 Fournier	 Corre-La Licorne	   5  2:49'48.2"   30'29.0"   1	4'00.2"

 3  13 Hémery	   Fiat				   5  2:51'05.0"   29'36.0"   5	5'17.0"

 4   3 Barriaux	 Alcyon				 5  3:02'27.0"   34'12.0"   1   16'39.0"

 5  11 Rigal		Rolland-Pilain		 5  3:04'00.0"   31'01.6"   3   18'12.0"

 6  14 Friderich	Bugatti				5  3:44'28.0"   40'22.8"   4   58'40.0"

 7  19 Leduc		Côte				   5  4:00'18.0"   48'03.0"   1 1:14'30.0"

 8  18 Gabriel	  Rolland-Pilain		 5  4:45'12.0"   32'11.0"   1 1:59'24.0"



Lap 6 -  324.360 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1   5 Duray		Lorraine-Dietrich	  6  3:24'29.0"   31'50.0"   1   95.1 kph

 2  13 Hémery	   Fiat				   6  3:32'17.0"   29'36.0"   5	7'48.0"

 3   3 Barriaux	 Alcyon				 6  4:05'53.0"   34'12.0"   1   41'24.0"

 4  14 Friderich	Bugatti				6  4:27'35.0"   40'22.8"   4 1:03'06.0"

 5  19 Leduc		Côte				   6  4:48'22.0"   48'03.0"   1 1:23'53.0"

 6  18 Gabriel	  Rolland-Pilain		 6  5:20'32.0"   32'11.0"   1 1:56'03.0"



Lap 7 -  378.420 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1  13 Hémery	   Fiat				   7  4:06'53.2"   29'36.0"   5   91.9 kph

 2   5 Duray		Lorraine-Dietrich	  7  4:07'51.2"   31'50.0"   1	  58.0"

 3  14 Friderich	Bugatti				7  5:08'05.0"   40'22.8"   4 1:01'11.8"

 4  19 Leduc		Côte				   7  5:49'37.0"   48'03.0"   1 1:42'43.8"

 5  18 Gabriel	  Rolland-Pilain		 7  6:40'42.0"   32'11.0"   1 2:33'48.8"



Lap 8 -  432.480 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1  13 Hémery	   Fiat				   8  4:38'44.4"   29'36.0"   5   93.0 kph

 2   5 Duray		Lorraine-Dietrich	  8  4:45'06.0"   31'50.0"   1	6'21.6"

 3  14 Friderich	Bugatti				8  5:48'35.0"   40'22.8"   4 1:09'50.6"

 4  19 Leduc		Côte				   8  6:19'33.0"   29'56.0"   8 1:40'48.6"

 5  18 Gabriel	  Rolland-Pilain		 8  7:31'53.4"   32'11.0"   1 2:53'09.0"



Lap 9 -  486.540 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1  13 Hémery	   Fiat				   9  5:20'33.0"   29'36.0"   5   91.0 kph

 2  14 Friderich	Bugatti				9  6:53'56.6"   40'22.8"   4 1:33'23.6"

 3  18 Gabriel	  Rolland-Pilain		 9  8:04'26.6"   32'11.0"   1 2:43'53.6"



Lap 10 -  540.600 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1  13 Hémery	   Fiat				  10  5:58'32.0"   29'36.0"   5   90.4 kph

 2  14 Friderich	Bugatti			   10  7:56'15.0"   40'22.8"   4 1:57'43.0"



Lap 11 -  594.660 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1  13 Hémery	   Fiat				  11  6:33'02.6"   29'36.0"   5   90.7 kph



Lap 12 -  648.720 km

Pos  # Driver	   Car				 Laps  Total Time	Fastest Lap   Gap to L

 1  13 Hémery	   Fiat				  12  7:06'30.0"   29'36.0"   5   91.2 kph



Legend: Pos  Position at end of lap

		  L  Leader





**** Recorded Times in Chronological Order



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 3   2 Fournier	   1	30'29.0"   30'29.0"*	  43.4"	  24.0"	   0.0"

 5   5 Duray		  1	33'50.0"   31'50.0"*	2'04.4"	  41.6"	3'21.0"

 7   3 Barriaux	   1	35'12.0"   34'12.0"*	4'26.4"	2'01.0"	1'22.0"

 1  12 Deydier		1	36'45.6"   29'45.6"*	   0.0"	   0.0"	1'33.6"

 4  13 Hémery		 1	39'08.4"   31'08.4"*	1'22.8"	  39.4"	2'22.8"

 2  15 Fauquet		1	40'05.0"   30'05.0"*	  19.4"	  19.4"	  56.6"

 6  18 Gabriel		1	44'11.0"   32'11.0"*	2'25.4"	  21.0"	4'06.0"

 9   9 Rivière		1	46'00.0"   42'00.0"*   12'14.4"	  10.0"	1'49.0"

 8  11 Rigal		  1	47'50.0"   41'50.0"*   12'04.4"	7'38.0"	1'50.0"

10  10 Anthony		1	48'00.0"   43'00.0"*   13'14.4"	1'00.0"	  10.0"

11  16 Olier		  1	55'00.0"   44'00.0"*   14'14.4"	1'00.0"	7'00.0"

12  14 Friderich	  1	55'04.0"   46'04.0"*   16'18.4"	2'04.0"	   4.0"

13  19 Leduc		  1  1:01'03.0"   48'03.0"*   18'17.4"	1'59.0"	5'59.0"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 1   2 Fournier	   2  1:01'04.0"   30'35.0"		0.0"	   0.0"	   1.0"

 4   5 Duray		  2  1:09'05.0"   35'15.0"	 6'01.0"	2'42.8"	8'01.0"

 5   3 Barriaux	   2  1:09'25.0"   34'13.0"	 7'21.0"	1'20.0"	  20.0"

 2  15 Fauquet		2  1:11'06.0"   31'01.0"		2.0"	   2.0"	1'41.0"

 3  13 Hémery		 2  1:12'22.2"   33'13.8"	 3'18.2"	3'16.2"	1'16.2"

 7   9 Rivière		2  1:28'00.0"   42'00.0"*   22'56.0"	  20.0"   15'37.8"

 6  11 Rigal		  2  1:29'40.0"   41'50.0"*   22'36.0"   15'15.0"	1'40.0"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 1   2 Fournier	   3  1:35'00.0"   33'56.0"		0.0"	   0.0"	5'20.0"

 8  14 Friderich	  2  1:41'08.0"   46'04.0"*   31'04.0"	8'08.0"	6'08.0"

 2   5 Duray		  3  1:41'22.0"   32'17.0"	 4'22.0"	4'22.0"	  14.0"

 3   3 Barriaux	   3  1:46'23.0"   36'58.0"	10'23.0"	6'01.0"	5'01.0"

 9  18 Gabriel		2  1:47'26.0" 1:03'15.0"	34'22.0"	3'18.0"	1'03.0"

10  19 Leduc		  2  1:49'06.0"   48'03.0"*   35'02.0"	  40.0"	1'40.0"

 4  13 Hémery		 3  1:53'39.8"   41'17.6"	10'39.8"	  16.8"	4'33.8"

 5  11 Rigal		  3  2:00'41.6"   31'01.6"*   19'41.6"	9'01.8"	7'01.8"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 1   5 Duray		  4  2:14'41.6"   33'19.6"		0.0"	   0.0"   14'00.0"

 2   2 Fournier	   4  2:18'09.0"   43'09.0"	 5'27.4"	5'27.4"	3'27.4"

 4   3 Barriaux	   4  2:24'39.0"   38'16.0"	10'57.4"	2'10.0"	6'30.0"

 6  14 Friderich	  3  2:27'12.2"   46'04.2"	43'12.2"   23'30.6"	2'33.2"

 3  13 Hémery		 4  2:29'29.0"   35'49.2"	 8'47.4"	3'20.0"	2'16.8"

 5  11 Rigal		  4  2:32'00.0"   31'18.4"	13'18.4"	2'21.0"	2'31.0"

 7  19 Leduc		  3  2:37'10.0"   48'04.0"	49'10.0"	5'57.8"	5'10.0"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 1   5 Duray		  5  2:47'48.0"   33'06.4"		0.0"	   0.0"   10'38.0"

 2   2 Fournier	   5  2:49'48.2"   31'39.2"	 4'00.2"	4'00.2"	2'00.2"

 8  18 Gabriel		3  2:50'41.0" 1:03'15.0"  1:03'41.0"   14'31.0"	  52.8"

 3  13 Hémery		 5  2:59'05.0"   29'36.0"*	5'17.0"	1'16.8"	8'24.0"

 4   3 Barriaux	   5  3:03'27.0"   38'48.0"	16'39.0"   11'22.0"	4'22.0"

 6  14 Friderich	  4  3:07'35.0"   40'22.8"*   45'53.4"   32'35.0"	4'08.0"

 5  11 Rigal		  5  3:10'00.0"   38'00.0"	18'12.0"	1'33.0"	2'25.0"

 7  19 Leduc		  4  3:25'14.0"   48'04.0"	59'32.4"   13'39.0"   15'14.0"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 1   5 Duray		  6  3:26'29.0"   38'41.0"		0.0"	   0.0"	1'15.0"

 2  13 Hémery		 6  3:40'17.0"   41'12.0"	 7'48.0"	7'48.0"   13'48.0"

 6  14 Friderich	  5  3:53'28.0"   45'53.0"	58'40.0"   40'28.0"   13'11.0"

 8  18 Gabriel		4  3:53'56.0" 1:03'15.0"  1:29'14.4"   29'42.0"	  28.0"

 3   3 Barriaux	   6  4:06'53.0" 1:03'26.0"	41'24.0"   33'36.0"   12'57.0"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 2   5 Duray		  7  4:09'51.2"   43'22.2"	   58.0"	  58.0"	2'58.2"

 7  19 Leduc		  5  4:13'18.0"   48'04.0"  1:14'30.0"   15'50.0"	3'26.8"

 1  13 Hémery		 7  4:14'53.2"   34'36.2"		0.0"	   0.0"	1'35.2"

 4  14 Friderich	  6  4:36'35.0"   43'07.0"  1:03'06.0"   21'42.0"   21'41.8"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 1  13 Hémery		 8  4:46'44.4"   31'51.2"		0.0"	   0.0"   10'09.4"

 2   5 Duray		  8  4:47'06.0"   37'14.8"	 6'21.6"	6'21.6"	  21.6"

 8  18 Gabriel		5  4:57'12.0" 1:03'16.0"  1:59'24.0"   44'54.0"   10'06.0"

 5  19 Leduc		  6  5:01'22.0"   48'04.0"  1:23'53.0"   20'47.0"	4'10.0"

 3  14 Friderich	  7  5:17'05.0"   40'30.0"  1:01'11.8" 1:00'13.8"   15'43.0"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 1  13 Hémery		 9  5:28'33.0"   41'48.6"		0.0"	   0.0"   11'28.0"

 6  18 Gabriel		6  5:32'32.0"   35'20.0"  1:56'03.0"   32'10.0"	3'59.0"

 3  14 Friderich	  8  5:57'35.0"   40'30.0"  1:09'50.6" 1:03'29.0"   25'03.0"

 4  19 Leduc		  7  6:02'37.0" 1:01'15.0"  1:42'43.8"   41'32.0"	5'02.0"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 1  13 Hémery		10  6:06'32.0"   37'59.0"		0.0"	   0.0"	3'55.0"

 4  19 Leduc		  8  6:32'33.0"   29'56.0"* 1:40'48.6"   30'58.0"   26'01.0"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 1  13 Hémery		11  6:41'02.6"   34'30.6"		0.0"	   0.0"	8'29.6"

 5  18 Gabriel		7  6:52'42.0" 1:20'10.0"  2:33'48.8"   51'05.0"   11'39.4"

 2  14 Friderich	  9  7:02'56.6" 1:05'21.6"  1:33'23.6" 1:33'23.6"   10'14.6"



Pos  # Driver	  Laps  Total Time   Last Lap	Gap to L   Gap to P   Gap on R

 1  13 Hémery		12  7:14'30.0"   33'27.4"		0.0"	   0.0"   11'33.4"

 5  18 Gabriel		8  7:43'53.4"   51'11.4"  2:53'09.0" 1:12'20.4"   29'23.4"

 2  14 Friderich	 10  8:05'15.0" 1:02'18.4"  1:57'43.0" 1:57'43.0"   21'21.6"

 3  18 Gabriel		9  8:16'26.6"   32'33.2"  2:43'53.6" 1:10'30.0"   11'11.6"



Legend: Pos  Position at end of lap

		  L  Leader

		  P  Position ahead

		  R  Road (to car ahead)

		  *  Fastest Lap so far



Nota Bene:  Total Time includes Starting Intervals


__________________
Michael Ferner

#12 fines

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 15:18

Another first name found (Maurice Leduc) and a correction regarding the lap length: it's neither 54.6 nor 54.06, but 54.006 km! :rolleyes:

#13 fines

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 04:06

Another first name found: Marius Barriaux.

#14 Jimmy Piget

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 06:59

I think there were 2 racing brothers by the name of Deydier, but I only know the initial of their first names.
The one racing the GP de France 1911 was likely J. Deydier.

#15 fines

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 19:32

Thanks, Jimmy! :)

I don't have any other result from any of the Deydier Bros., maybe Touring Car racers? Anyway, what type of Cottin-Desgouttes would that have been? Probably one of the big 4-cylinders?

#16 Jimmy Piget

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 20:46

Michael : Sorry, I do not know at all what type of Cottin-Desgouttes it was, except it was a 1908 model.

About the Deydier bros, I saw their names in some race reports, somewhere — if I have not noted it, it's because it was either in a touring car race, or in a hill climb.

First names : For Leduc, I have Paul — but may be I am wrong
For Coosemans, it was Maurice.

#17 GIGLEUX

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 00:52

Georges Deydier. His brother Jean didn't raced at Le Mans 1911.

#18 fines

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 17:08

Thanks, Jean-Maurice! :)

#19 corre-lalicorne.com

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 11:10

Maurice Fournier
Complete name: Maurice René Alphonse Marie Fournier
Birth date: 30.Dec.1880
Birth Place: Le Mans (72), France
Death date: 23.Jul.1911
Death Place: Ruaudin, near Le Mans (72), France
Nationality: France
Gender: male
Age at death: 30

Accident date: 23.Jul.1911
Series: Formule Libre - non-championship
Race: Grand Prix de France
Event: race
Country: France
Venue: Le Mans
Variant: 1911-1912

Role: driver
Vehicle type: car
Vehicle sub-type: unknown
Vehicle brand/model: Corre-La Licorne
Vehicle number: 2

Note:
Maurice Fournier took part in the 1911 Grand Prix de France, a race organized by the Automobile Club de la Sarthe et de l'Ouest, with a 1907 Corre-La Licorne shared with his riding mechanic Louvel (first name unknown). The event covered twelve laps over a somewhat triangular circuit of 54,006 kilometers crossing Le Mans and surroundings areas.


Starting the race from the first slot, Fournier finished the first lap in third place, behind the Cottin-Desgouttes of Georges Deydier and the Rolland-Pilain of Fauquet, but jumped to the lead on the second lap. Duray, driving a Lorraine-Dietrich, overtook Fournier on the fourth lap, but the latter held on to a strong second place until midway the sixth lap, when the front right wheel of his Corre-La Licorne collapsed at a left-hand turn in Ruaudin, near Le Mans. The car overturned, throwing Fournier and Louvel off; both were killed in the accident.


Maurice was brother to drivers Achille and Henri Fournier(driver of vehicles MORS).
http://www.corre-lal.../en-course.html
Posted Image

Edited by corre-lalicorne.com, 22 September 2009 - 11:13.


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#20 speedman13

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 15:28

What route did this circuit take.

#21 robert dick

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 09:46

Circuit route: Pontlieue (start-finish) - Écommoy - Le Grand-Lucé (fourche du Bois-Chaudet, 2 km from Grand-Lucé).
(in 1913 start-finish was on the Hunaudières, near the "route d'Arnage")

The name of Maurice Fournier's riding mechanic was Georges Louvel, aged 35, described as "fils d'un gros industriel du Mans, directeur de la principale cartonnerie du Mans".

Hémery's mechanic was Fagnano.

#22 corre-lalicorne.com

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 09:35

Circuit route: Pontlieue (start-finish) - Écommoy - Le Grand-Lucé (fourche du Bois-Chaudet, 2 km from Grand-Lucé).
(in 1913 start-finish was on the Hunaudières, near the "route d'Arnage")

The name of Maurice Fournier's riding mechanic was Georges Louvel, aged 35, described as "fils d'un gros industriel du Mans, directeur de la principale cartonnerie du Mans".

Thank you very much. !!!
Robin

#23 taylov

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 09:57

I found three postcards of the 1911 race. Two are race scenes and the third shows the wreck in which Maurice Fournier and Georges Louvel lost their lives.

Tony

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by taylov, 13 October 2009 - 09:58.


#24 cpbell

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:39

I found three postcards of the 1911 race. Two are race scenes and the third shows the wreck in which Maurice Fournier and Georges Louvel lost their lives.

Tony

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


Yikes, Fournier's car was much more seriously wrecked than I assumed - I imagined it overturning in a slower corner but being fairly intact, but that must have barrel-rolled or even cartwheeled to do that much damage. :eek: :(

#25 taylov

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 13:31

Yikes, Fournier's car was much more seriously wrecked than I assumed - I imagined it overturning in a slower corner but being fairly intact, but that must have barrel-rolled or even cartwheeled to do that much damage. :eek: :(


Here's a different view of Fournier's car after the crash and a second postcard showing just how dangerous parts of the course were. Any breakage as happened to Fournier and Louvel would have them into a ditch and/or the trees in a moment.

Tony

Posted Image

Posted Image

#26 paulhooft

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 13:48

Great postcards!![ :clap:

#27 cpbell

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 14:00

Great postcards!![ :clap:


Indeed! Very narrow roads with, as Tony said, obstacles to hit if anything went wrong. It looks to me as if Fournier's car either rolled on the road when the wheel collapsed and continued rolling into the ditch, or went out of control and then rolled as it went down into the ditch. It also looks to me as though it also burned out? :confused:

Edited by cpbell, 13 October 2009 - 14:02.


#28 taylov

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 14:43

Great postcards!![ :clap:


Thanks - I have just noticed that the very first card I posted is from the Le Mans race of 1913 not 1911 :down: - I only saw the error when I looked at the full screen version. It is at Pontlieue however which makes it relevant to this thread.  ;)

Tony

#29 robert dick

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 18:09

In 1911, the start-finish and the grandstand were at the Pontlieue hairpin; and in 1911 the course was run anti-clockwise, in 1912 and -13 clockwise.
The accident happened at the begin of Fournier's sixth lap, more or less exactly where the Mulsanne corner is located on today's 24h course, at the end of today's Hunaudières straight.
According to eyewitnesses, the front axle of the Corre broke and acted as a lever, lifting the car. The Corre turned over, caught fire and burned out.


Photos from the Bibliothèque Nationale/Paris:

Fournier and mechanic Louvel
http://gallica.bnf.f...epage.f1.langFR

during the race
http://gallica.bnf.f...epage.f1.langFR

the remains of the Corre
http://gallica.bnf.f...epage.f1.langFR


#30 cpbell

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 19:18

In 1911, the start-finish and the grandstand were at the Pontlieue hairpin; and in 1911 the course was run anti-clockwise, in 1912 and -13 clockwise.
The accident happened at the begin of Fournier's sixth lap, more or less exactly where the Mulsanne corner is located on today's 24h course, at the end of today's Hunaudières straight.
According to eyewitnesses, the front axle of the Corre broke and acted as a lever, lifting the car. The Corre turned over, caught fire and burned out.


Photos from the Bibliothèque Nationale/Paris:

Fournier and mechanic Louvel
http://gallica.bnf.f...epage.f1.langFR

during the race
http://gallica.bnf.f...epage.f1.langFR

the remains of the Corre
http://gallica.bnf.f...epage.f1.langFR



Some sources seem to refer to a collapsed wheel, but, as you say, it seems to have been a broken axle (source: "Power and Glory", Wm. Court) He suggests that rumours had begun to get back to the stands at the pit area around mid-day.

Edited by cpbell, 13 October 2009 - 19:20.


#31 corre-lalicorne.com

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 07:11

Thank you for the pictures taylov and robert dick
Thank you also cpbell for posting a tekst.

On my other computer i have one picture from another fiew to the wrack and the two i earlyer posted.
I will soon post them here or refer to them.
Robin

#32 robert dick

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 08:15

From "Le Petit Parisien", 24 July 1911 - the Fournier accident:

Posted Image

#33 speedman13

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 08:31

There used to be a memorial to Fournier near Mulsanne, Is it still there.

Edited by speedman13, 14 October 2009 - 08:31.


#34 cpbell

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 18:54

From "Le Petit Parisien", 24 July 1911 - the Fournier accident:

Posted Image



I can still understand a little of this report (rusty ex A-level French student), but it would be useful if a more Fluent (or French) member could provide a full translation. From what I can follow of it, the suggesion is that Fournier's driving after being passed by Hemery may have been a possible factor in causing the crash.

#35 Frank Verplanken

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 21:17

A quicky, sorry about typos, spelling errors and lack of style :D

A 100 kph crash.

The accident occured at around 11:00am. Fournier had just finished his 5th lap. 500 metres after the grandstands on the s/f line, he stopped with an overheating engine. He restarted, but stopped again in front of a farm, where he was sold water for 5 francs - the locals refused to give him some for free.
Having filled his radiator, Fournier left in the direction of Ecommoy. Behind him was Hémery, who was now catching him for the lead after having passed the s/f line with a 13 minutes deficit.
Before reaching the road that, on the right, leads to Arnage, Hémery pulled by Fournier and passed him. That’s when the fatal accident occurred.
Here is how this terrible accident happened, the eye witnesses being capt. Hébert, of the 117e de ligne, et dr. Canagier.

Fournier was trying to catch up with Hémery and had speeded up. The gap was decreasing when the front axle of his car broke on one side. The broken axle hit the ground, acted as a crutch and the car, riding at over 100 kph, somersaulted in the frightening way.
Fournier was thrown first against his steering wheel, which crushed his chest, then out of the car. Meanwhile, fire took on the car and the riding mechanic, who had not been ejected far from the wreckage was hit by the flames.

Doctors Moreau and Canegrier were on the accident spot right away and took care of the woundeds. Alas, for one of them it was already too late ! As for Louvel, first reports suggested he was fatally injured. Fortunately, reassuring news came later, and at 2:00pm, while the race was finishing, doctors announced that despite a severe concusion and numerous burns – none too serious – Louvel would live.

Le Mans shocked.

The news of Maurice Fournier’s death and of the accident of his friend Louvel came as a shock in Le Mans. Both were well know personalities from the town.
Maurice Fournier was 29 years old ; he was married and father of two. The news of him leading in the first laps of the race had made all the locals proud, and his brutal death deeply saddened them all. However, many tought that Fournier’s notorious unsafe driving was bound to lead to an accident some day.

Georges Louvel, aged 35, is not a professional driver. A personnal friend of Fournier, he had happily accepted Fournier’s invitation to do the race with him. He was the son of one of Le Mans’ industry magnat, the director of the biggest cardboard factory of the area. His family is devastated by the news, and one can easily imagine the relief they received when the news came he was out of danger.


:wave:

#36 Damien Duigan

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 21:40

G'day all,

Apart from George Wingard's Cottin-Desgouttes seen at Laguna Seca this year (said to be Deydier's car), any other survivors of the race still around?

Cheers,
Damien

#37 LittleChris

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 23:53

"Having filled his radiator, Fournier left in the direction of Ecommoy. Behind him was Hémery, who was now catching him for the lead after having passed the s/f line with a 13 minutes deficit.
Before reaching the road that, on the right, leads to Arnage, Hémery pulled by Fournier and passed him. That’s when the fatal accident occurred."




Well the only road I can think of on the right that leads to Arnage around this location is at the current Mulsanne Corner. Given that the accident happened before this point, could Fournier have been the first victim of the Mulsanne Kink ?

#38 cpbell

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 21:06

"Having filled his radiator, Fournier left in the direction of Ecommoy. Behind him was Hémery, who was now catching him for the lead after having passed the s/f line with a 13 minutes deficit.
Before reaching the road that, on the right, leads to Arnage, Hémery pulled by Fournier and passed him. That’s when the fatal accident occurred."




Well the only road I can think of on the right that leads to Arnage around this location is at the current Mulsanne Corner. Given that the accident happened before this point, could Fournier have been the first victim of the Mulsanne Kink ?



Accoding to Robert Dick earlier in this discussion:

In 1911, the start-finish and the grandstand were at the Pontlieue hairpin; and in 1911 the course was run anti-clockwise, in 1912 and -13 clockwise.
The accident happened at the begin of Fournier's sixth lap, more or less exactly where the Mulsanne corner is located on today's 24h course, at the end of today's Hunaudières straight.


Many thanks to Frank for the translation.

Edited by cpbell, 17 October 2009 - 21:09.


#39 LittleChris

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 23:28

Accoding to Robert Dick earlier in this discussion:



Many thanks to Frank for the translation.


It was the statement that Frank kindly translated specifying that the accident happened BEFORE the road leading to Arnage that made me think it might be the Mulsanne Kink given that it is only 500 metres or so before the turning to Arnage.
Roberts post notes that the accident happened more or less exactly at the current Mulsanne Corner, but to me doesn't actually specify that it happened at the site of the corner itself, more that it was in the general area and given the circuit was 54kms long, 500m away could be seen to be more or less in the area of the current corner. Of course it could just as easily have occurred 500m after the the site of the current corner.

Anyway it was nearly 100 years ago so I guess we'll never know :|


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#40 corre-lalicorne.com

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 21:22

Posted Image
the burning Corre La Licorne of Fournier

#41 dilettante

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 18:44

Thanks - I have just noticed that the very first card I posted is from the Le Mans race of 1913 not 1911 (...)

Tony

And the car from 1912.;) #4 René Croquet on Théo-Schneider finished 6th.
–––––––––––––––––––
About the end of the newspaper article post by Robert Dick : "(...) and one can easily imagine the relief they received when the news came he was out of danger.". Actually, Louvel died on the evening at the Le Mans hospital...

According to the book "Le Mans, un siècle de passion avec l'ACO", tome 1, page 79, the car was the same that run the "Grand Prix de l'A.C.F." at Dieppe in 1907, #C1, finished 16th.
–––––––––––––––––––
Here, the Cottin-Desgouttes of Deydier :
http://gallica.bnf.f...epage.f1.langFR


Jean-Yves

Edited by dilettante, 10 November 2009 - 21:39.


#42 cpbell

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 22:31

It was the statement that Frank kindly translated specifying that the accident happened BEFORE the road leading to Arnage that made me think it might be the Mulsanne Kink given that it is only 500 metres or so before the turning to Arnage.
Roberts post notes that the accident happened more or less exactly at the current Mulsanne Corner, but to me doesn't actually specify that it happened at the site of the corner itself, more that it was in the general area and given the circuit was 54kms long, 500m away could be seen to be more or less in the area of the current corner. Of course it could just as easily have occurred 500m after the the site of the current corner.

Anyway it was nearly 100 years ago so I guess we'll never know :|


Yes, but wasn't he current Ligne Droite des Hunaudieres the westernmost part of the 1911 circuit, meaning that (given it was run clockwise) that they would have run the opposite way along the straight to the present direction (i.e Mulsanne corner to Terte Rouge)?

#43 dilettante

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 23:29

Yes, but wasn't he current Ligne Droite des Hunaudieres the westernmost part of the 1911 circuit, meaning that (given it was run clockwise) that they would have run the opposite way along the straight to the present direction (i.e Mulsanne corner to Terte Rouge)?

The 1911 circuit was at the east of the straight and the actual circuit is at the west. In 1911 they run counter-clockwise, so they take the "Hunaudières" in the same way as today. :cool:

#44 corre-lalicorne.com

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 09:55

who knows this book ? MOTOR AGE
It is publiched in the USA.
google image

google result

Motor age, Volume 18
Class Journal Co., 1910
New York Public Library

digitalised 24 juni 2006

Edited by corre-lalicorne.com, 03 December 2009 - 09:56.


#45 # 0

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 12:56

Motor Age is not a book, it was a magazine.

#46 corre-lalicorne.com

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 14:55

Motor Age is not a book, it was a magazine.

Great, because in magazine number 18, there must be a story of the 1911 crash and other material of the "Corre La Licorne" compagny.

the same car of the 1907 Grand Prix de l'ACF:
Posted Image

the car was made by Waldemar Lestienne in 1906 for the "IX Grand Prix de l'Automobile Club de France" with Count Pierre d'Hespel at the weel and Collomb as mechanisien, but could not start because of the conflict between Corre and Renault. A part in the gearbox was used without permission of the Renault brothers.
The part was pattended by Renault and used by Corre between 1903 and 1906.

here the Corre in 1906
Posted Image
Posted ImageThe Unicorn (Licorne) was a heraldic figure of the Lestienne family.
and the replica:
Posted Image

Edited by corre-lalicorne.com, 07 December 2009 - 15:24.


#47 Frank Verplanken

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 15:30

Some nice pics of the event on the French National Library site :love:
:wave:

#48 Porsche718

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 23:48

Hi all.

 

Trying to clarify the connection of "Cherbuy" with the Friderich Bugatti number 14. I have seen references and photos to a Cherbuy driving the T13 in the event. Was he the riding mechanic?

 

Cherbuy.png

 

 

Thanks in advance, Steve



#49 Tim Murray

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 06:18

Google throws up an enormous (800-plus page) Bugatti thread on the French Forum-Auto site.

There’s a bit of discussion on Cherbuy in amongst much other stuff. One poster noted that all the contemporary journals spoke of Cherbuy. Another poster came up with a page from Le Figaro for 24 July 1911 with an entry list for the race, with Cherbuy listed as the Bugatti driver.

http://www.forum-aut...89904-20895.htm

On that basis one wonders how it came to be known that Friderich actually drove the car.

#50 robert dick

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:07

I think it is sure that Ernest Friderich was at the wheel of the little Bugatti in the 1911 Grand Prix de France at Le Mans:
http://gallica.bnf.f...627q?rk=21459;2
http://gallica.bnf.f...6306?rk=64378;0

According to William Bradley in The Automobile/New York, 27 July 1911, page 161:
"When the race was called off the little Bugatti 8-horsepower driven by Freiderich [Friderich] was in second place..."
Motor Age/Chicago, 27 July 1911, page 12:
"When the race was called off the litte Bugatti, driven by Friederich [Friderich], was in second position..."
Motor Age/Chicago, 10 August 1911, page 19:
"... Friderich on the Bugatti... "

Race report in La Vie au Grand Air/Paris, 29 July 1911, front page, page 4, ...:
http://gallica.bnf.f...6k9604477f.item
http://gallica.bnf.f...604477f/f4.item
http://gallica.bnf.f...04477f/f10.item

But:
L'Auto, 22 July 1911, page 3; and 23 July, page 1:
"Les concurrents... No. 14 Cherbuy (Bugatti)..."
24 July, page 1:
"... la petite Bugatti de Cherbuy..."

So it is completely unclear why the newspaper L'Auto, and a lot of other newspapers, adopted "Cherbuy".
Where is the origin of "Cherbuy"?