40 replies to this topic

[Ron Scoma]

I am looking for a listing of watercraft that used automobile engines in an attempt to reach a speed record.
The Ferrari hydroplane is one that comes to mind and a few years ago, at Retromobile, there were a few others displayed, a Maser engined one as well as a few that were Alfa powered.
If anyone knows of any books or models about such craft I would appreciate you passing the information along.
I recall a company that produced some 1/43 models a few years ago but I can't seem to dig out their info. They did Miss England and a few others.
Thanks

Ron Scoma

[Ray Bell]

There were several Ferrari V12-engined hydroplanes used to race at Hen & Chicken Bay in the Parramatta River.

[Milan Fistonic]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
There were several Ferrari V12-engined hydroplanes used to race at Hen & Chicken Bay in the Parramatta River.

One of them was probably the Ernie Nunn craft powered by the ex-Rosier, ex-Roycroft 4.5-litre V12.

[ray b]

most that I know of like, gar wood's miss america used aircraft motors in the post WW1 time frame
for the unlimited records
packerds V12 liberty's mostly

offshore oceanracers use 454 chevy bigblocks, some bored and stroked out to near 600ci
drag boats use AA/fuel dragster motors loosely based on mopar hemi's as do the 7liter hydros
some smaller class hydros used to have offie [indy motors] but most are now using hotrodded
street car motors

[dbw]

bugatti supplied a t-50 engine to prince maurizio ruspoli to power "ninette"for record runs in 1932......come to think of it,the t-50 engine was used in street cars,gp car,and a pair in bugatti's ill fated airplane....pretty versatile lump.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by dbw
bugatti supplied a t-50 engine to prince maurizio ruspoli to power "ninette"for record runs in 1932......come to think of it,the t-50 engine was used in street cars,gp car,and a pair in bugatti's ill fated airplane....pretty versatile lump.

railcars?

[Jonas]

Then there are the boats powered by Alfa Romeo 158/9 engines that were discussed in a thread a while ago. Sorry for not finding it for you, but a simple search in the forum ought to do the trick..

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Jonas
Then there are the boats powered by Alfa Romeo 158/9 engines that were discussed in a thread a while ago. Sorry for not finding it for you, but a simple search in the forum ought to do the trick..

And Hans Stuck took at least one water speed record pre-war in an Auto Union-powered boat.

[Jonas]

This reminded me of a rumour I've heard on a few occasions which has it that there was a boat powered by an Alfa Romeo 8C 2300 engine racing somewhere here in Scandinavia. According to the rumour the boat sank along with the engine. No year has ever been mentioned..

So, does anyone know if there's any truth to this rumour? I would like to have a bit more fact before I go scuba diving =)

By the way, the engine could NOT have come from any of the two Monzas racing here since their histories, along with that of their engines, are fully accounted for..

Sorry Ron if I've "stretched" the topic a bit too much!

[Geoff E]

Originally posted by David McKinney

railcars?

The Bugatti railcars were powered by "four Bugatti engines of 200hp each" according to FAS Brown in "Nigel Gresley, Locomotive Engineer".

[dbw]

the t-50 was the twin-cam [via harry miller] version of the t-46 automobile engine....the bugatti railcars were powered by t-41 royal engine.....different units but both designed and used as roadcar engines.

come to think of it...there was a private rum-runner supposedly powered by a king-bugatti aero engine....bunny phillips was supposed to have kept it running by pirating parts from similar engines being used[and retired]as wind machines in hollywood....

[m.tanney]

Originally posted by Jonas
Then there are the boats powered by Alfa Romeo 158/9 engines that were discussed in a thread a while ago. Sorry for not finding it for you, but a simple search in the forum ought to do the trick..

Alfa powered boats thread

Recommended Reading:
Classic Speedboats, Vol. 1 and
Classic Speedboats, Vol.2, by Gerald Guetat.
Prop Riders by Kunz and Holder

Models:
Provence Moulage
Replicast

I hope this helps.

Mike

[Kaha]

Lancia* built an offshore race boat which used 3 turbocharged Ferrari V8s (the engines was based upon the Ferrari F40 engine)

(* The project was officially a Lancia project, but I guess that it was more or less CFs own project)

[WDH74]

Not really racing boats, but didn't some of the Healey boats use versions of Austin Healey mills? Also, issue #22 of The Rodder's Journal has a nice article about hot rod racing boats, mostly running tuned flathead Fords.
-William

[Bladrian]

Saw some amazing unlimited Hyroplane racers using the engine from a Chinook helicopter. They were talking many thousands of horsepower.

[AAA-Eagle]

And Hans Stuck took at least one water speed record pre-war in an Auto Union-powered boat.

A picture of Hans Stuck's motor boat:

[f1steveuk]

I think all of mario Verga's Laura craft were powered by Alfa 158/9 engines, this is the last Laura III in which Verga crashed fatally.

[D-Type]

On the other thread anjakub posted this link to Maserati-powered boats

Jonas, see also very interesting material about Maserati car engines on water:
http://www.maserati-...k/alfieri47.htm

The 1951 Maserati-Milano used a Maserati 4CLT/48 engine which had been highly modified by Mario Speluzzi. According to Denis Jenkinson in the Racing Car Pocketbook "Speluzzi had been doing the development of the Maserati engine for speed-boat use and this was employed to good effect in the new cars, his two-stage supercharger layout giving 44 lb/ sq in boost,"

I also remember DSJ enthusing in Motor Sport about a ride he had had in a racing boat powered by four Ford Galaxy engines, presumably tuned to NASCAR/ Le Mans level.

Both Coventry Climax (the FWM) and Cosworth produced marine versions of their engines. As boat engines like aircraft engines are run at more constant speed than road racing cars with peak power rather than a smooth power curve being required I believe tuning them is somewhat easier.

Edit: Typos

Edited by D-Type, 27 January 2011 - 15:28.

[Cardenas]

Another pic from Hans Stuck auto union powered boat.



Is there any more information about this? v12 or v16? was it after 1938 January?

[Bjorn Kjer]

I am not into boat racing , but surprised nobody mentioned Maserati or Jaguar !

[D-Type]

I am not into boat racing , but surprised nobody mentioned Maserati or Jaguar !

I did, two posts before yours!

I agree about Jaguars - there must have been a few over the years.

On the other thread anjakub posted this link to Maserati-powered boats

The 1951 Maserati-Milano used a Maserati 4CLT/48 engine which had been highly modified by Mario Speluxxi. According to Denis Jenkinson in the Racing Car Pocketbook "Speluzzi had been doing the development of the Maserati engine for speed-boat use and this was employed to good effect in the new cars, his two-stage supercharger layout giving 44 lb/ sq in boost,"

I also remember DSJ enthusing in Motor Sport about a ride he had had in a racing boat powered by four Ford Galaxy engines, presumably tuned to NASCAR/ Le Mans level.

Both Coventry Climax (the FWM) and Cosworth produced marine versions of their engines. As boat engines like aircraft engines are run at more constant speed than road racing cars with peak power rather than a smooth power curve being required i believe tuning them is somewhat easier.

Edited by D-Type, 03 October 2010 - 22:36.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Sorry , I only noted the Maserati Milan name , as well as overlooking the quote with link.

[fuzzi]

From Maserati by Orsini and Zagari:

"In 1933 two motors of the V5 [5-litre U-16] of opposed rotation found successful employment in motonautics by Count Theo rossi of Montelera in the speedboats constructed at the Baglietto shipyards in Varazze."

At least one of these engines survives and is now in a car.

[wenoopy]

The more recent thread 'Ernie Nunn and European Racing Engines' is also relevant to this inquiry.

[Cardenas]

Just found this photo in a Russian forum....



Hans is int he middle of the photo. It used the V16

[Arjan de Roos]

Now that we are in the German corner: Porsche participated in a project initiated by Austrian Stross who confinced FA Porsche to join in a off-shore racer project. The Porsche Kineo was born.

The prototype was motorized with two Porsche engines and Porsche Design was responsible for all styling parts. Thyssen Krupp (builders of the modern German submarines) constructed the boats. Later the engines have been changed to Mercedes. I believe three have been built with some remakes later on.

[Vitesse2]

Does anybody know anything about 'Miss Torbay', the boat raced by Luis Fontes in 1938 and 1939? It apparently competed in the 4-litre class and was said to have a 240hp supercharged Alfa Romeo engine. Almost certainly built by an American company called Ventnor and probably owned by GL Stephenson of Torquay. One of Fontes' rivals at the time was Harold C Notley, whose very similar boat 'Blue Ace' - powered by the more normal Lycoming engine - is in the National Maritime Museum Cornwall.

 

http://www.nmmc.co.u...cing_hydroplane

[Michael Ferner]

There were many, many racing boats fitted with all kinds of Miller engines, as is so well explained in Mark Dees's "Miller Dynasty", and the engine of Pete de Paolo's Indy-winning Duesenberg also ended up in boat racing.

[GMACKIE]

One of them was probably the Ernie Nunn craft powered by the ex-Rosier, ex-Roycroft 4.5-litre V12.

Ernie Nunn often raced on Kogarah Bay, and there was a R.R. Merlin-powered boat racing there as well.

 

Keith Barry-Cotter set a world record there in a self-built hydroplane, with an MG engine.

 

Edit:-  I think the MG engine was from a TA, and the record run was in 1950. Keith built the boat in 1 week, when he heard about the 'record attempt' meeting.

Edited by GMACKIE, 21 July 2014 - 22:02.

[Daren W]

aggressor V12 merlin powered hydroplane starting at the national maritime museum

 

[f1steveuk]

Not really a car engine though

[Lee Nicolle]

Not really a car engine though

Depends on how you view it. There is quite a few Merlin engined cars. Jay Leno has one, Rod Hadfield here in Oz has one in a 57 Chev, There is Mustang in SA with one and there used to be a FJ Holden with one. Etc Etc.

Mind you WHY is probably more the question.

Healthy boat engine, should be able to pull plenty of prop pitch! From memory there was a Merlin boat version anyway.

[Sharman]

Depends on how you view it. There is quite a few Merlin engined cars. Jay Leno has one, Rod Hadfield here in Oz has one in a 57 Chev, There is Mustang in SA with one and there used to be a FJ Holden with one. Etc Etc.

Mind you WHY is probably more the question.

Healthy boat engine, should be able to pull plenty of prop pitch! From memory there was a Merlin boat version anyway.

MTBs,MGBs,RAF Crew Rescue, Fairmiles (Macklins father) etc. towards the end of the war Merlins built under licence by Packard

[f1steveuk]

I know there were marinised Napier Lions ( funnily enough, called Sea Lions!), can't recall marinised Merlins, but there were some marinised Meteors (Merlins built by Rover, but without superchargers).

[D-Type]

Didn't the Meteor have other changes such as a re-profiled camshaft so that the engine gave useable power over a greter rev range reflecting the need for variable speed operation in tanks and other vehicles compared to the essentially single speed of an aero engine.  A marine engine would come somewhere in between these two extremes.

 

The Americans used RR Merlins, Packard Merlins and RR Griffons for unlimited powerboats for may years after WW2 until gas turbines were readily available.

[stiffy]

In the 60s Tommy Sopwith raced Tremontana in the Cowes Torquay race it was powered by Jaguar twincams,not for speed records,but awesome.

[Lee Nicolle]

I know there were marinised Napier Lions ( funnily enough, called Sea Lions!), can't recall marinised Merlins, but there were some marinised Meteors (Merlins built by Rover, but without superchargers).

As Sharman said. Packard versions were used in boats.

[Lee Nicolle]

While not used for record attempts the most common car engine used for race boats, recreational boats and even some work boats is the Small Block Chev. And for bigger capacity racing or just bigger boats the Big Block too. For ski boats and capacity ski boat racing the SBC is the trendsetter,, for 50 years.

Though I have known boats with side valve Fords [also used in military boats, often by 2 or 3] Y Block Fords, FE Fords, Clevelands, Windsors as well as [here in Oz] 308 Holden, LA block and saw tooth [A] Chryrsler. As well as 4.4 Leyland V8s. As well as multitudes of Holden 6s, Chrysler 6s [side valve, Slant and hemi]. Falcon 6s and on the bottom end of the scale surprisingly a lot of old fishing boats used side valve 4 cyl Ford motors. Really  most production engines have been used, especially cast iron engines that some one has made marinising gear for.

[Lola5000]

Ern Nunn (Wasp) was famous in Australia for racing various inland speed boats in 50s/60s with either a Maserati V8 and or a ex Ferrari F1 engine,well worth a google.

[f1steveuk]

As Sharman said. Packard versions were used in boats.

But not really a car engine nevertheless. Though looking at the thread title you could list any boat that didn't have a 100%, built for marine use engine! But the first line does say, "I am looking for a listing of watercraft that used automobile engines in an attempt to reach a speed record". I don't think a tank is an automobile. Even if you take the Roll-Royce R type, it may have held the water speed record, the land speed record and the air speed record, but it was a aeroplane engine, as was the Merlin and it's offspring

 

Norman Buckley used a Jaguar engine for class and duration records in Miss Windemere.

Edited by f1steveuk, 22 July 2014 - 15:15.

[ron54]

In 1974 circuit powerboat racer Jackie Wilson teamed up with Bill Brown of Cosworth to build a race boat  using the  Ford F5000 engine.

Suitably encouraged they moved on to use the 1600cc BDA unit finding it lighter and better handling for the tighter circuit courses.

 

In 1975 they uprated to the 2000 cc BDG  motor as a response to the then increased power of the dominant Outboard motors from the USA.

In spite of a parting of the ways during that season Bill continued the Cosworth thead by building an aluminium hulled craft with sponsorship

from Carlsburg (made into a model by Corgi Toys)..

 

Jackie Wilson  however continued to use the more traditional marine ply for his new hull, purchased his own version of the BDG and later that

year at the Windermere Records Week established the R3 class record at over 89 MPH..

 

Subsequent involvement  with Keith Duckworth &  Mike Costin  eventually produced a marinised version of the DFV  in a brand new hull,

naming it "ITS A DUESY" during the 1978 season its potential was increasingly apparent..Jackie winning several major races and setting  

  at the October Records Week a new record of 124 MPH...

 

In 1979 Jackie took the boat to the Parker,Arizona Enduro Race in the USA to complete against the best boats there...Having managed to

finish 7th overall and 1st in class.....It was disqualified for having an Un-American engine!!.

 

Talking to Jackie recently. he said he knew the outfit had more to come but he was always mindful of having a wife and 5 kids and a job to go to

on Monday!

Edited by ron54, 23 July 2014 - 20:54.