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#1 olol

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 10:22

Can someone please explaine to me what F5000 was?
pictures would be cool
Thanx in advance

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 10:29

F5000 was, to be as accurate as possible, the English version of Formula A in America...

But it was with the introduction of F5000 that FA got seriously competitive.

Five litre stockblock engines, modified as per the usual methods (porting, bigger valves, high compression pistons, polishing and balancing, camshafts etc) and using carburettors were fitted to what were initially slightly modified (in the main) F1 chassis.

In America and some other parts of the world fuel injection was allowed. Bigger wheels than F1 were fitted, and the gearbox came to be bigger than current F1 practice.

In time there were more specialised chassis made for the formula, particularly from Lola and Chevron.

#3 Don Capps

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 15:57

Check this site for the information you ate looking for: http://www.oldracing...000/default.htm

#4 bill moffat

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 18:40

olol..I see that you are a McLaren fan.

Do a Google image search on "Mclaren M10B" and feast your eyes on the result. Proper racing cars with a downforce:power ratio healthily in favour of the latter. These cars were awesome to watch and hear. Happily many are still active in historic racing both in Europe and the US.

Sell your grandmother if need be, your motor sport education is incomplete without sight and sound of these wonderful monsters.

#5 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 19:34

Originally posted by bill moffat
.....Sell your grandmother if need be, your motor sport education is incomplete without sight and sound of these wonderful monsters.


How many of us, 'veterans' who have seen so many different types of racing car, feel this way?

I know I certainly do. In fact, two days ago I told a couple of kids who love our Australian F4000 (essentially out of date F3000 tubs with 3.8-litre Buick V6s in the back...) of the F5000 makeup and they drooled!

What makes me drool is the thought that it could make such a revival today!

The problems with F5000 at the time were essentially reliability and cost of reliability. Today the engines would give an extra 80-100 hp reliably, the gearboxes would be more reliable, the tubs stronger, the package could be regulated to greater strength, safety and cost control.

Wouldn't that get us back to the fences?

#6 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 20:28

How many of us, 'veterans' who have seen so many different types of racing car, feel this way?



Don't know if I count as a veteran, but having seen F5000 from 1971 onwards, I suppose I do...

Well, I feel that way! F5000 was the wonderful.

#7 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 20:52

Wonderful? How could you know 'wonderful' if you weren't at Phillip Island, Jeremy?

Then again, I guess that Paddock Bend at Brands would have required quite a balancing act... and that was the difficulty with these cars, getting them balanced.

That pendulum of a lump in the back, the overall lack of symmetry, they were a handful. Maybe they wouldn't be so much so these days, with better tyres, better chassis etc, but they would still be worth watching.

Hard to balance and plenty of grunt, that's the pathway to a spectacular racing car...

How's this for a bit of imagery?

http://forums.atlasf...s=&postid=21071

#8 wibblywobbly

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 23:20

Originally posted by Ray Bell


(essentially out of date F3000 tubs with 3.8-litre Buick V8s in the back...)


I didn't know Buick made a V8 in that size. They did use a 3.8 V-6 in the now defunct Indy Lights racing Series.

Here's an example. I took this in June at the Historic Sportscar Racing meet. A former Dayton Indy Lights car.

Posted ImageClick the pic for a larger image.



My apologies for taking this topic horribly off course!

#9 275 GTB-4

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 03:25

Originally posted by wibblywobbly

I didn't know Buick made a V8 in that size. They did use a 3.8 V-6 in the now defunct Indy Lights racing Series.

Here's an example. I took this in June at the Historic Sportscar Racing meet. A former Dayton Indy Lights car.

My apologies for taking this topic horribly off course!


Wibbles, Ray was talking about Australian F4000 (formerly Formula Holden) and 3.8 Litre V6 powered. Chassis ripe for F5000 conversions!! IMHO :rotfl:

#10 wibblywobbly

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 05:00

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


Wibbles, Ray was talking about Australian F4000 (formerly Formula Holden) and 3.8 Litre V6 powered. Chassis ripe for F5000 conversions!! IMHO :rotfl:


I know what he was talking about. :p I just wanted to know the correct cylinder count of the engine and it appears that you've solved this mysterey for me. Thanks! V6 it is. :wave:

#11 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 08:45

Around August-September 1969 there was much discussion in the Letters page of Motoring News about the merits of F5000.

One anti-letter from a Mr Shingleton drew this reply.

In reply to Mr Shingleton on the subject of F5000: they are spherical and they bounce! - Trevor Taylor, Peter Gethin, Mike Hailwood, Mike Walker, Ulf Norinder, Keith Holland, Derek Bell, Terry Sanger, Derrick Williams, Mike Coombe, Kaye Griffiths, Ian Ashley, Rod Sawyer, John Dean.


I'm looking forward to the end of the month when I will be attending the Tasman Cup Revival Series at Ruapuna where they are expecting around twenty F5000 cars will be competing. Mike Wrigley and the husband and wife duo Frank and Judy Lyons are among those taking part.

#12 petefenelon

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 11:55

Originally posted by Ray Bell


How many of us, 'veterans' who have seen so many different types of racing car, feel this way?

I know I certainly do. In fact, two days ago I told a couple of kids who love our Australian F4000 (essentially out of date F3000 tubs with 3.8-litre Buick V8s in the back...) of the F5000 makeup and they drooled!

What makes me drool is the thought that it could make such a revival today!

The problems with F5000 at the time were essentially reliability and cost of reliability. Today the engines would give an extra 80-100 hp reliably, the gearboxes would be more reliable, the tubs stronger, the package could be regulated to greater strength, safety and cost control.

Wouldn't that get us back to the fences?


F5000s were special to me because they looked like real racing cars - real F1/F2 looks - sounded ballsy, took a fair bit of handling, and went quicker than anything else you were likely to see around the clubbies when they turned out for Libre and so on.

I've an enormous soft-spot for the Chevron B24, one of the best-looking racing cars I've ever seen.

A series that was something like "F3000 with a grunty V8" would certainly get me spectating enthusiastically - at one point British F2/F3000 was going to sprout a class for TVR AJP-engined cars and that's the kind of thing I'd support wholeheartedly.

Trouble is, there's too many formulae between 3 and 1 these days :( -- but if we could come up with something that was for having fun in rather than as a stairway to the stars who knows....

#13 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 14:50

My transgression has been corrected... thank you gentlemen!

And the thrust of my statements, I see, has met with at least some approval... good. It's hard to understand how F5000 was ever replaced in Australia with FAtlantic...

#14 JacnGille

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 17:11

Ah yes, I have many memories of the Brian Redman, Mario Andretti, Al Unser, Danny Ongias, etc F5000 wars.

#15 eldougo

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 23:28

Originally posted by Ray Bell


What makes me drool is the thought that it could make such a revival today!

The problems with F5000 at the time were essentially reliability and cost of reliability. Today the engines would give an extra 80-100 hp reliably, the gearboxes would be more reliable, the tubs stronger, the package could be regulated to greater strength, safety and cost control.

Wouldn't that get us back to the fences?

__________________________________________

:( Oooo please Ray it will not happen as long as (The Cockroach) is in charge of those v8.s
because they would see real racing and Holden & Ford would be unable to control there mobile
advertising every 2nd sunday as they do now onthe TV.
It is some thing that i dream about it see a full field of f5ooo cars again .however one can only
dream. :up:

olol. I feel sad that you are unable to see F5000 races it sure was one of the best times in
motor sport when they would make there wonderfull sound.

#16 Bondy

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 07:35

I am "only" 34, but for me there is no other class of racing that comes close, when Sandown was on in November, i went all 3 days as i simply could not get enough of these weapons. To cap off a wonderful weekend, Roger Willams in a car that is essencially 30 odd years old broke the outright lap record that was previously held by young gun Simon Wills in a F4000, so old race cars never die, they just go faster, hehe.

Ray i have heard a rumour that the F5000s may be at the Island, i have heard 2005, do you have any info on that?

#17 Falcadore

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 08:57

Originally posted by petefenelon


F5000s were special to me because they looked like real racing cars - real F1/F2 looks - sounded ballsy, took a fair bit of handling, and went quicker than anything else you were likely to see around the clubbies when they turned out for Libre and so on.

I've an enormous soft-spot for the Chevron B24, one of the best-looking racing cars I've ever seen.

A series that was something like "F3000 with a grunty V8" would certainly get me spectating enthusiastically - at one point British F2/F3000 was going to sprout a class for TVR AJP-engined cars and that's the kind of thing I'd support wholeheartedly.

Trouble is, there's too many formulae between 3 and 1 these days :( -- but if we could come up with something that was for having fun in rather than as a stairway to the stars who knows....



Wait a few weeks and that might change. Both CART and IF3000 still hang by threads.

#18 275 GTB-4

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 10:31

Originally posted by eldougo
:( Oooo please Ray it will not happen as long as (The Cockroach) is in charge of those v8.s
because they would see real racing and Holden & Ford would be unable to control there mobile
advertising every 2nd sunday as they do now onthe TV.
It is some thing that i dream about it see a full field of f5ooo cars again .however one can only
dream. :up:

olol. I feel sad that you are unable to see F5000 races it sure was one of the best times in
motor sport when they would make there wonderfull sound.


Well................in this country, both Ford and Holden could both bounce off a reborn F5000 if they used the Soupertaxi engines! I have suggested this before somewheres else.....

You could have the DJR Ford powered Lola as an an example (I was going to say the GRM Chev 427 tongue in cheek :eek: )

The current crop of ex-open wheeler Taxi drivers would probably jump at the chance to jump into their teams F5000 weapon and it would give the marketeers yet another chance to strut their mobile billboards!

I'd like ta see that!! (not the marketeers...) :clap:

#19 cm50

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 11:26

Fabulous cars and racing.

I was involved in the attempt to revive the spectacle in the UK with the prototype Reynard/TVR AJP and while there was a lot of interest I feel there was not a lot of comittment from TVR. The Boss (Best of single seaters) series was in its infancy but had the advantage of being genuine F1/F3000 cars on an almost anything goes basis, ie a variety of chassis and engine combos. I believe in Europe and UK this series has gone from strength to strength and to some extent provided to sort of close racing that FA/F5000 produced.

My recollection of FA/F5000 in its infancy was that apart from the M10 and TS5 (I think) very few had any real links to the F1 cars of the time but how I wish the OZ scene had respectable single seat racing as the pinacle class of racing.