57 replies to this topic

[Mischa Bijenhof]

At first I thought this was a joke, but apparently a Mitsubishi Colt of some sort was raced by Kuniomi Nagamatsu at the Fuji Formula 2 Grand Prix in 1970. Hopefully the link works...
Sorry for opening a new thread for this, but I couldn't find an appropriate place for this topic.

http://user.tninet.s...291w/Colt70.jpg

http://user.tninet.s...91w/F270_27.htm

[Mischa Bijenhof]

And, as I could have imagined, it has been covered before by Stefan...

[petefenelon]

I'm not sure it was to "F2" - the details I have of the car say it was two litres in 1969/70, which would make it a Libre special then, although Hodges describes it (incorrectly, I reckon) as a Formula Two - F2 was 1600cc at the time in Europe!

The car was apparently designated "F2-C" although it apparently had a 2-litre engine giving 240bhp.

The JAF GP in '69 was a Libre race with everything from 2.5 Tasmans via 1.6 F2s and the odd F3, including some local specials.

As I understand it, the Japanese adopted F2-like rules for their "Formula 2000" in '72 at the same time that two-litre F2 started in Europe, and that it let in two-litre twin-cams and 2.4l SOHCs, thereby admitting things like the 240Z engine although in practice most of the cars seemed to be to the European spec.... not quite sure when they went from F2000 to F2...

[Ray Bell]

There's a thread on the Japan GP that mentions several of these Mitsubishi cars...

And I think they started out as 1600s, too.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Maybe this link provides some additional info.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Kuniomi Nagamatsu must have liked the R39B2 engine because he had one in a Brabham BT36 in 1973 in the All Japan Formula 2000 series for Bellco Racing. My guess is that this was BT36-2.

Edited by Andrew Fellowes, 10 November 2020 - 20:16.

[Andrew Fellowes]

No I was wrong. BT36-2 went straight from Hong Kong to the Philippines.

Out of curiosity does anyone know any more about the Colt F2000 than is listed in the link above?

Was it Brabham based?
How many were built?
Was it a space frame chassis, but with oil rad at the rear above the engine, water radiators on the side?
Do Mitsubishi have one in their museum?

[philippe charuest]

[philippe charuest]

from "L'année sportive Automobile 1969"(a yearly special issue of the magazine L'auto-journal)

[fivestar]

Not sure if it is of any assistance but two Formula 2 Mitsubishi Colts appeared at the 1968 Macau GP driven by Osamu Mochizuki and Osamu Masuko.
There is a comment in "Color and Noise", that in 1967 the Japanese were everywhere photographing FVA engines and lo and behold, 12 months later the Colts appear with engines looking uncannily like FVAs.
The two cars took the first two places on the rid but did not last the race. There is a picture of Masuka's car on page 103 of Color and Noise.
The cars re appeared in 1969, with O. Masuka and S. Kato driving. Kato finishing 3rd in the race.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Thanks Phillippe & Fivestar, yes its all interesting, perhaps because there seem to be so little information on these cars it makes them an interesting subject.

[Ted Walker]

The car illustrated is a BT23 that was supplied in "kit form" by Brabhams to Colt in Japan.Is it a Brabham ??????????? or not

[Andrew Fellowes]

Just found this, I guess its recent but where & when it does not say

One mirror?

[Paul Taylor]

Sorry, I can't help with the thread, but this is the picture of the car linked to in the first post. The site is now being hosted elsewhere.

[Ted Walker]

Brabham Wheels ,suspension, steering wheel.very interesting. I assume its in the Mitsubishi museum ???

[Andrew Fellowes]

Paul where did the photo come from? (formula2.net I know but whats the story behind it?) I assume thats a photo on the wall behind with a locked up rear wheel? Urgh!

Ted I found this site yesterday, (if I could post a direct link I would, but it’s a pop up window)

http://www.mitsubish...seum/index.html

then go to the picture furthest to the right called Auto Gallery, click on that and it will bring up a window that shows a floor plan. There is a row of buttons under ’Index’, click on the 5th button down, the purple one and it will bring up the race cars. Under ‘History’ you will find F3A (1966) and F2000, click on these and it will bring up the details.

All I have to do now is figure out how to translate the hieroglyphics, HELP!

[Allen Brown]

Good find Andrew.

Here's the direct URL:

http://www.mitsubish...mula_f2000.html

And here's a rough translation:

http://translate.goo...Flanguage_tools

Allen

[Andrew Fellowes]

Thanks Allen, that’s impressive!

Oh how I would like to know a bit more! The F2000 is interesting with its oil & water cooling. I wonder what it weighed?

[macoran]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
[B]Just found this, I guess its recent but where & when it does not say

One mirror?



It says 1971
It also says:

That with no permission it duplicates & distributes to the literary work person it has been prohibited the photograph * picture * sound and the like which is published to this service by law.

[macoran]

Interesting to note that Mitsubishi quotes the : entire aerodynamic volume displacement !!!
of the.........


So as for the oil and water cooling,....it's just the crappy translation.

[Andrew Fellowes]

to summarise;

1966 Colt F3A, 997cc R28 engine, 90hp
1967 Colt F2A, 1598cc R46 engine, 160hp
1968 Colt F2B, 1598cc R39 engine, 220hp
1969 Colt F2C, as above with wings
1970 Colt F2D, 1598cc R39 Mk2 engine, 240hp
1971 Colt F2000, 1994cc R39B engine, 280hp

Edit, another engine, the R39B2 used in 1973 in a Brabham BT30 and a BT36 -and thats were the puzzle starts!

[Allen Brown]

I forgot to provide links to the other one, the F3A:

http://www.mitsubish...ormula_f3a.html

and translated as:

http://translate.goo...Flanguage_tools

Allen

[macoran]

I am sure I have more on the F2000 Colt even a cutaway...
I would have been by Takashi Jufuku, who did the original Maki
cutaway among others.
Just have to dig through the old attic again.

[Ted Walker]

I have a friend who is a Mitsubishi Main Dealer . I will try and get a contact at the Museum. What we want is the body taken off.

[Allen Brown]

... and to know whether they have other Colts in the museum, even in the basement.

[steinbacher-hohl]

I will post Mitsubishi F2B picture which I took at 1971 Japanese GP at Fuji Speedway.
This was the last race which Mitsubishi formula car.
Mitsubishi decided to provide their enigines to Japanese private team.

Kuniomi Nagamatsu with Mitsubishi Colt F2B

[steinbacher-hohl]

As far as I know

Mitsubishi Colt F3A raced at 1966 Japanese GP supporting race.
It was exhibition race for formula libre and two seater car.
Car name F3A means that this car does not meat F3 regulation.
F3A had 1000cc enigine.
Her frame was from Brabham.
Osamu Mochizuki won this race with Colt F3A.

At 1967 Japanese GP Mitsubishi entered F3A and F2A.
This was also supporting event.
F2A had 1,589 OHV engine.
Mochizuki won this race with F2A.
2nd was Mashiko with F2A.
Mitsubishi made their frame by themselves but those are copies of Brabham.

[steinbacher-hohl]

Originally posted by steinbacher-hohl
I will post Mitsubishi F2B picture which I took at 1971 Japanese GP at Fuji Speedway.
This was the last race which Mitsubishi formula car.
Mitsubishi decided to provide their enigines to Japanese private team.

Kuniomi Nagamatsu with Mitsubishi Colt F2B

Sorry the machine name was Mitsubishi Colt 2000.

[steinbacher-hohl]

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
Just found this, I guess its recent but where & when it does not say

One mirror?

I think this car was restored machine.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by steinbacher-hohl
I will post Mitsubishi F2B picture which I took at 1971 Japanese GP at Fuji Speedway.
This was the last race which Mitsubishi formula car.
Mitsubishi decided to provide their enigines to Japanese private team.

Welcome! And thanks!! We needed some help from Japan.

[steinbacher-hohl]

Picture from 1970 JAF GP.



Kuniomi Nagamatsu with Mitsubishi Colt F2D
He was 3rd.
A winner was Jackie Stewart on Brabham BT30 Cosworth FVC.
2nd was Max Stewart with ‚lildren Waggott.

F2D has side radiator like Lotus 72.

[Paul Taylor]

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
Paul where did the photo come from? (formula2.net I know but whats the story behind it?) I assume thats a photo on the wall behind with a locked up rear wheel? Urgh!

I'm not sure where the photo came from originally.

Try contacting the Webmaster: Stefan Örnerdal, mailto:stefan.ornerdal@minmail.net

[Stefan Ornerdal]

I have knicked the photo from Swedish magazine "Illustrerad Motor Sport".
The caption says its from Racing Car Show at Earls Court.

?

Stefan

[Stefan Ornerdal]

No.
Forget what I said above.
I do not have that issue of Illustrerad Motorsport in my library any longer.
It was from memory and I could be wrong about Earls Court - maybe a Japanese Racing Car Show?

Sorry.


Stefan

[steinbacher-hohl]

Originally posted by philippe charuest

I think this picture was in 1968.
Speed Cup race at Suzuka.
Driver was Osamu Mochizuki.

He won this race.

[steinbacher-hohl]

In 1968
4th Japanese GP
This race was my 2nd race as a spectator.
Mitsubishi brought four Colt F2B for the supporting race.

Sohei Kato wan and Masuko was 2nd
They drove Colt F2B.

Tetsu Ikuzawa drove his old Brabham faster than Mitsubishi Colt F2Bs.
But he lost this race by less fuel.

[Bonde]

Here's that 'rough' (definite understatement!) Japanese-English translation linked to here: http://translate.goo...Flanguage_tools



Enjoy!


"Mitsubishi produced this F3A in 1966 as an outrider model of the formula car. As for the chassis the brassiere bum, as for the engine R28 type (KE43 type reforming) 2 Mikuni Thorex 40PHH types of the double choke, as for the mission the English hue land corporation make is installed. Participating in the 3rd Japanese grand prix automobile race/lace conference ƒGƒLƒWƒrƒWƒ‡ƒ“ƒŒ[ƒX of the same year with the Mochizuki Osamu driver, it decorates synthesis victory, next year class 1 victory of 4th Japanese grand prix automobile race/lace conference formula car race/lace (comprehensive 4 rank) is the car which gains with the Hasegawa Hiro driver."



I especially liked the "brassiere bum" chassis and the hue land mission...

There's definitely room for improvement in translator software algorithms and vocabularies...


Macoran,

Any chance of seeing those Maki and Colt cutaways?

[macoran]

I haven't found the Colt yet, and am reworking the page division of the Maki.
I'll A4 it as a jpg and mail you asap.

[Allen Brown]

Brassiere bum is Google-Japanese for Brabham. I even found a way of searching on "brassiere bum" and finding Japanese references to Brabhams. As they say, Japanese translation is only a beta.

Allen

[macoran]

I'd been wondering what the blazes brassiere-bum was.

Just finished the Mikuni-Thorex carbs.

Luckily it didn't have a Cause-Wart engine !

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Brassiere bum is Google-Japanese for Brabham.

Perhaps Brabham should have stuck with MRD after all!

[macoran]

If Bra bum is the translation for Brabham and MRD means sh.. in French
hopefully MRD is "safe" in Googpanese

[Catalina Park]

Hmmm, I wonder what Tauranac translates to?

[Andrew Fellowes]

Photo from Angus Lamont.

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes


Photo from Angus Lamont.

Andrew, unfortunatly the engine could not match thr power and reliability of cossie engines and Australian WAGGOT engines at Mt Fugi events in the 1960'S.... The drivability of the COLT engine was either all or nothing.........

[Andrew Fellowes]

Peter thats interesting, I think guys like Noritake Takahara always went the Cosworth way, looking at that chassis I do wonder if its just a straight Brabham copy. If its of any interest to anyone, the car that Noritake used in the Tasman series, his BT36, has just recently gone to the States, I think it still had a BDG in it -;)

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
Peter thats interesting, I think guys like Noritake Takahara always went the Cosworth way, looking at that chassis I do wonder if its just a straight Brabham copy. If its of any interest to anyone, the car that Noritake used in the Tasman series, his BT36, has just recently gone to the States, I think it still had a BDG in it -;)

Andrew, possibly a copy in fact most definitely ,the original is still in MITSI'S hands in japan , the COLT engine was just a learning curve for them, about power and overall drivability ,and how to get the mix correct...............

[steinbacher-hohl]

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes


Photo from Angus Lamont.

Thank you for your posting rare picture.

I think this photo was Macau GP.

[Angus Lamont]

Yes, I'm sure that you are right. Although I didn't take the picture I think that it was taken from the grandstand directly above the mechanical pits looking down on the pit lane.

[Taiju Kobayashi]

Hi. I'm newbie here from Tokyo. Andrew Fellowes persuaded me to join.
It is true that Mitsubishi copied series of Brabhams for their F3/F2/F2000.
I have got a BT18? instrument panel(F2-44-66) that was owned by Mitsubishi.

Looks like Colt F3A copied BT16, BT18/21 for F2B, BT30 for F2D.
F2C is an evolution of F2B, and F2000 is of F2D.

F2D in 1970 is a copy of BT30 but with side radiator and characteristic cowling, stemmed from Mitsubishi's other expertise- aerospace tech. In 1971 F2D was developed to F2000 and won Japan GP by Kuniomi Nagamatsu. 2nd place comes Osamu Masuko with another F2000 but it is in truth a BT30 with Colt engine.
I am rather close to then team manager/entrant Mr.Togawa, I will interview him these stories behind.

>Tetsu Ikuzawa drove his old Brabham faster than Mitsubishi Colt F2Bs.
>But he lost this race by less fuel.
He took pole but in the race his injection pump clogged for some reason.