9 replies to this topic

[Megatron]

In 1980, Porsche almost got another Le Mans victory with Reinhold Joest and Jacky.

Jean Rondeau had other ideas.

The car that nearly won was a dead ringer for a 936, but was entered as a 908 with 936 bodywork.

I have a few questions:

1. What spec engine did they run?

2. What was the history of the car?

3. Bodywork aside, how much 936 was in the 908?

[starlet]

Hello Megatron,

This car was officially called 908/80.
... but it was in fact, the fourth 936 built, especially for Joest Racing for the 1980 Le Mans race.
Identical to the 1977 version, but as Porsche didn't want to sell the 936 to customers, it wasn't called 936. And they made believe, that it was an updated 908/3 using a 936 chassis, engine, transmission ...
Then, only in 1982, Porsche allowed Joest, to number the car with the serial number 936 004 ( after the 3 works cars ).
The car did also among others : the 1981 Le Mans race, '82 Kyalami and the German championship in 1982 and 1983.

The problem was that the Kremer team heard of arrangement, and wanted also a car.
For not offend its customers, Porsche was obliged to provide to Kremer and Joest teams, all the data for duplicate the 936.
Kremer will build the 936 005, but also three CK5 ( s/n 01, 02 and 03 ) using the 936 spirit ; and Joest their 936 C or CJ5 s/n JR005. All these cars was entered in Group C.

By hoping that this will be interesting for you.

[Megatron]

That clears a lot up.

In one of my Porsche books it states that only three 936s were built and it won Le Mans 3 times. Essentially I felt like they were making it sound as if for every car that was built there was a victory. They were talking about how in terms of numbers built and wins, it was one of the most succesful cars ever.

So in effect 5 were built. I kept thinking after studying the photos that a 908, though from the company, couldn't have been adapted so convincingly.

I get teh feeling some Porsche books are heavily influenced. I own two (now not the really big Excellence was expected) and both leave all any record of the F1 V6 that won three world drivers titles but talk about the "grand design" GT1 98 that was creamed by Mercedes in the FIA GT championship but did win Le Mans.

[David T.]

As far as I know, the main difference between the Works 936/77 and the 908/80 was that the latter featured a simpler 2-valves engine, while the 936 had a 4-valves engine.

[petefenelon]

There is a very good explanation of the "908/80" on http://www.911handbo...936racecar.html

pete

[BRG]

I was under the impression (probably wrongly) that the 936 essentially used the 917 spaceframe with some additional bracing. So irrespective of the engine choice, I would regard it more as son-of-917 than of the 908.

[david_martin]

Originally posted by David T.
As far as I know, the main difference between the Works 936/77 and the 908/80 was that the latter featured a simpler 2-valves engine, while the 936 had a 4-valves engine.

The 1977 936 had a two valve, air cooled head. The 4 valve water cooled heads appeared on the 1978 evolution of the 936. As I remember it, the evolution of the 936 engines went something like this:

• 1976: single turbo charger, 2 valve per cylinder aircooled heads based on the 3.0 litre 911 RSR engine reduced in capacity to meet the Group 6 limit (was it 2200cc under the equivalency formula?)
• 1977: twin turbo, dual intercooler, 2 valves per cylinder
• 1978: twin turbo, dual intercooler, 4 valve water cooled heads

The 1978 evolution of the engine was englarged to 2.6 litres, lost one turbocharger and formed the basis of the USAC Interscope project engine, which later was adapted in twin turbo form for the 956 project. What goes around come around, as they say ;)

The 1980 Joest "908" used the 1977 spec two valve engine AFAIK.

[Jesper O. Hansen]

I was under the impression (probably wrongly) that the 936 essentially used the 917 spaceframe with some additional bracing. So irrespective of the engine choice, I would regard it more as son-of-917 than of the 908.

The way I heard it was that the 917 was a beefed up 908 for starters - but then again, the 908 was an evolution of the 907, which was..

Searched for some Porsche 936 history and found little, to my surprise. Another surprise was that Porsche only built three, where I've heard of four, but read the thread above to have learned a bit more. Those original three only did 19 starts among them over six years, winning Le Mans three times.

The 1981-version of the cars used the 2.65 turbo that was intended for Indy, but thanks to a rule change never performed in a single seater ..but did so a year later in the group C 956. Porsche has always been clever people, that may have missid one oppertunity only to use it second time around!

Jesper

Edited by Jesper O. Hansen, 19 August 2010 - 21:30.

[arttidesco]

Interesting run down of many 5 x 936 chassis results with photo's at racingsports cars.com

[Jesper O. Hansen]

Interesting run down of many 5 x 936 chassis results with photo's at racingsports cars.com

Good link. Having spend the day collecting results for these cars I discovered that the Joest 004 did something like 30 races from 1980-1984, while the factory chassis never did more than 10 each - 003 doing only three races

The Kremer 936 seems to have been designated 936/82 and 936K depending on sources and races and should have been applied with a 936 005 chassis plate. This car was based on an existing 908, but what particular car would that have been, as I don't recall Kremer ever running Porsche 908s. The car seems to have had a relative short racing life, as I have only found it for 1982 races ..so far.

Jesper