32 replies to this topic

[VDP]

I m looking for the starting grid can you help me

Robert

[Rob Ryder]

Emerson Fittipaldi, Lotus 72D, 1' 16.4
Ronnie Peterson, Lotus 72D, 1' 16.6
Jackie Stewart, Tyrrell 006/2, 1' 16.9
Peter Revson, McLaren M23, 1' 17.1
Denny Hulme, McLaren M23, 1' 17.2
Carlos Pace, Surtees TS14A, 1' 17.4
David Hobbs, Lola T330, 1' 17.5
Clay Regazzoni, BRM P160E, 1' 17.5
Niki Lauda, BRM P160D, 1' 17.6
Brett Lunger, Lola T330, 1' 18.2
Mike Hailwood, Surtees TS14A, 1' 18.3
Tony Dean, Chevron B24, 1' 19.2
Keith Holland, Trojan T101, 1' 19.2
Jackie Oliver, Shadow DN1, 1' 19.4
Steve Thompson, Chevron B24, 1' 20.0
Vern Schuppan, BRM P160E, 1' 20.4
George Follmer, Shadow DN1, 1' 20.4
Teddy Pilette, Chevron B24, 1' 20.9
Tom Belso, Lola T330, 1' 21.0
Graham McRae, McRae GM1, 1' 21.3
Bobby Brown, Chevron B24, 1' 21.4
Howden Ganley, Iso-Marlboro FX3B, 1' 21.4
Bob Evans, Trojan T101, 1' 21.5
David Oxton, Begg FM5, 1' 21.5
Gijs van Lennep, Lola T330, 1' 22.1
Clive Santo, Surtees TS11, 1' 22.4
Ian Ashley, Lola T330, 1' 23.1
Ray Allen, Surtees TS8, 1' 24.3
Jock Russell, McRae GM1, 1' 26.0

[MCS]

Absolutely fascinating! Thanks Rob.

I can remember the Hogan Lolas being ridiculously quick that weekend and their "demonstration" in the F5000 race on the Saturday was evidence enough - just how much testing had they had?!

But look at the times and grid positions of Tony Dean and Keith Holland...
Once you're out of the 1m 17s bracket...(in an F1 car?)

Or are am being cruel? Just how good were some of those "F1"cars in these races?

Or, dare I say, their drivers...?

MCS

[VDP]

Thanks a lot

Robert

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by MCS


But look at the times and grid positions of Tony Dean

........maybe he heard police sirens in the distance that day............

Was he usually that quick? I didn't think he was...

[Rob Ryder]

Originally posted by MCS
Once you're out of the 1m 17s bracket...(in an F1 car?)
Or are am being cruel? Just how good were some of those "F1"cars in these races?
Or, dare I say, their drivers...?

Outside of the 1' 17's were... Mike Hailwood, Jackie Oliver, Vern Schuppan, George Follmer and Howden Ganley. I think none of these could be considered as slow drivers ?

As to the cars, I think only the FX3B could be considered a dog. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Chris Amon listed it as one of the worst cars he had ever driven?

The P160s had been around for a while, and the Shadow was a new car, so maybe these two reasons placed them further back on the grid than expected?

I'll check the qualifying/race reports later today and see if these can shed any light on the times...

Rob

[quintin cloud]

Originally posted by Rob Ryder
Emerson Fittipaldi, Lotus 72D, 1' 16.4
Ronnie Peterson, Lotus 72D, 1' 16.6
Jackie Stewart, Tyrrell 006/2, 1' 16.9
Peter Revson, McLaren M23, 1' 17.1
Denny Hulme, McLaren M23, 1' 17.2
Carlos Pace, Surtees TS14A, 1' 17.4
David Hobbs, Lola T330, 1' 17.5
Clay Regazzoni, BRM P160E, 1' 17.5
Niki Lauda, BRM P160D, 1' 17.6
Brett Lunger, Lola T330, 1' 18.2
Mike Hailwood, Surtees TS14A, 1' 18.3
Tony Dean, Chevron B24, 1' 19.2
Keith Holland, Trojan T101, 1' 19.2
Jackie Oliver, Shadow DN1, 1' 19.4
Steve Thompson, Chevron B24, 1' 20.0
Vern Schuppan, BRM P160E, 1' 20.4
George Follmer, Shadow DN1, 1' 20.4
Teddy Pilette, Chevron B24, 1' 20.9
Tom Belso, Lola T330, 1' 21.0
Graham McRae, McRae GM1, 1' 21.3
Bobby Brown, Chevron B24, 1' 21.4
Howden Ganley, Iso-Marlboro FX3B, 1' 21.4
Bob Evans, Trojan T101, 1' 21.5
David Oxton, Begg FM5, 1' 21.5
Gijs van Lennep, Lola T330, 1' 22.1
Clive Santo, Surtees TS11, 1' 22.4
Ian Ashley, Lola T330, 1' 23.1
Ray Allen, Surtees TS8, 1' 24.3
Jock Russell, McRae GM1, 1' 26.0

Thanks Rob

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Ruairidh


........maybe he heard police sirens in the distance that day............

Was he usually that quick? I didn't think he was...

Yes he was. In fact, he was quick whenever he drove in F5000, over a period of quite a few years. A front runner throughout the '73 F5000 season, he finished second ( I think) in the championship that year. And that's before plod started taking an interest in him.

[Nordic]

maybe he heard police sirens in the distance that day............

He was pretty quick in the 908 he drove as well, in 1970 he even won a race with it, or was that a another Tony Dean?

Did his son start to race at some time as well?

[2F-001]

I'm sure it's the same chap - he won a CanAm round when all the more fancied machinery struck trouble; from memory, I think it was Road Atlanta... or was it Road America...
His son is Richard Dean, isn't he?

[Macca]

posted by Rob Ryder

As to the cars, I think only the FX3B could be considered a dog. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Chris Amon listed it as one of the worst cars he had ever driven?

Pescarolo certainly did in MS recently, as the 1972 Politoys.

Possible new poll: Len Bailey's worst car



Paul M

[Ray Bell]

That's the race where Emmo had trouble with a high first gear... check out this post, which is in reality the DSJ scorn cast on the media of the time...

Good old Jenks!

[Twin Window]

Seems to me that Jenks was viewing from Copse, as that's exactly as I saw and heard it from the outside of the corner.

The following year, IIRC, Peterson was passed by Hunt into Copse at coming out of the corner the Lotus's engine 'died'. The friends I was spectating with and I were absolutely convinced that Ronnie had hit the kill switch the second he lost the lead. I bet that didn't appear on any press releases either...

Twinny

[SEdward]

It would interesting to compare the times of the "slow" F1 drivers with their lap times in the race (even if it did snow!!) and their practice times and race lap times at the British GP later the same year on the same circuit.

Edward.

[Alan Cox]

Yes, Nordic, Richard Dean is his son and it was the same Tony Dean who won in Can-Am with the 908

[Twin Window]

...and the same Tony Dean who shared Chris Meek's TVR with me in 1980!

Twinny

[john winfield]

Time to wrap up warm and enjoy some footage from the 1973 International Trophy meeting at Silverstone, courtesy once more of Brian Dandridge. It was bloomin' freezing.

 

 

[philippe7]

Brilliant, thank you !

[rl1856]

1973 British GP

 

https://en.wikipedia...tish_Grand_Prix

 

Qualification times mostly similar; maybe a tenth or so better for some drivers.  But more of the regulars in the 17's.

 

Biggest jump from Revson and Hulme...the M23 was a new car in early 1973 and the team was still refining setup.

 

BRM was consistent.  The P160 was in it's 3rd season, and about 1 sec off the pace in both races.    

[Ray Bell]

In the video...

 

Is that Emmo doing the practice start which ruined his race at about 6:50?

 

And are those hares looking for a BRM so they can put it out of contention?

[Gary C]

That's a great nit of film, good to see dome 9f the support races as well. Is it me, or is it running a bit slow?

[nmansellfan]

Yes seems to be more true to real life if it runs at 1.5x in YT's options Gary.

Great film, I feel cold just watching it though!

[john aston]

One of those dots in the Stowe grandstand was me . One strip of canvas stretched over lots of seats - chap next to you stood up, you sank a couple of inches. Awfully  cold , and snow slowed the long drive home . 

 

It was 40 years later when  I realised why Silverstone seems exceptionally bleak , even allowing for its wide open spaces. Not because "it's got a micro climate" as old fools have been droning  on about every race track in  the country since  the dawn of time - but because it's much higher than you'd expect . My OS map shows the peak height near Becketts as 156m ASL - 511 feet. Which doesn't make it Mexico city or Kyalami, but in the gently rolling and often flat English Midlands  it is more than I expected. 

[Sterzo]

One of those dots in the Stowe grandstand was me . One strip of canvas stretched over lots of seats - chap next to you stood up, you sank a couple of inches. Awfully  cold , and snow slowed the long drive home . 

 

It was 40 years later when  I realised why Silverstone seems exceptionally bleak , even allowing for its wide open spaces. Not because "it's got a micro climate" as old fools have been droning  on about every race track in  the country since  the dawn of time - but because it's much higher than you'd expect . My OS map shows the peak height near Becketts as 156m ASL - 511 feet. Which doesn't make it Mexico city or Kyalami, but in the gently rolling and often flat English Midlands  it is more than I expected. 

No sympathy from me (haven't thawed out yet) for the softies in the luxury grandstands. (Luxury = corrugated iron roof). I think the flat plain higher than the surrounding countryside is why it's there - a characteristic of airfields hurriedly commissioned in wartime.
 

[john winfield]

No sympathy from me (haven't thawed out yet) for the softies in the luxury grandstands. (Luxury = corrugated iron roof). I think the flat plain higher than the surrounding countryside is why it's there - a characteristic of airfields hurriedly commissioned in wartime.
 

 

We made a rare investment for grandstand seats (Stowe) for the 1971 GP.....sunny, blue skies.....but didn't for the 1969 International Trophy, the 1970 BOAC at Brands, the arctic 1973 International Trophy, the 1975 GP, the 1978 and 1979 International Trophies etc.  Very sensible we were!

 

Oddly, although Thruxton 'airfield' was often rather bleak in late March/early April, I don't remember any F2 races being wet, although maybe I only went along if the forecast was fine weather.

Edited by john winfield, 10 March 2024 - 12:20.

[nmansellfan]

https://youtu.be/wvg...DpGbU5YsZCw_VEL

BBC footage of Peterson going off, using all the revs getting going again! Didn't know any footage of the BBC's coverage still existed.

[GazChed]

We made a rare investment for grandstand seats (Stowe) for the 1971 GP.....sunny, blue skies.....but didn't for the 1969 International Trophy, the 1970 BOAC at Brands, the arctic 1973 International Trophy, the 1975 GP, the 1978 and 1979 International Trophies etc. Very sensible we were!

Oddly, although Thruxton 'airfield' was often rather bleak in late March/early April, I don't remember any F2 races being wet, although maybe I only went along if the forecast was fine weather.

I went to every Easter Monday Formula Two meeting from 1976 to 1984 and can't remember a single wet race day in that time. Most were sunny but chilly, although the 1984 meeting was warm and sunny. By contrast the 1985 meeting, the only visit to Thruxton of the European Formula 3000 championship, saw frequent heavy showers throughout, causing confusion on the Formula 3000 grid with at least one car leaving the grid with a mixture of slicks and wets fitted. 1986 and the visit of the Interseries Sportscars was also very wet with the circuit drying as the meeting went on.

Edited by GazChed, 16 March 2024 - 16:13.

[john winfield]

I went to every Easter Monday Formula Two meeting from 1976 to 1984 and can't remember a single wet race day in that time. Most were sunny but chilly, although the 1984 meeting was warm and sunny. By contrast the 1985 meeting, the only visit to Thruxton of the European Formula 3000 championship, saw frequent heavy showers throughout, causing confusion on the Formula 3000 grid with at least one car leaving the grid with a mixture of slicks and wets fitted. 1986 and the visit of the Interseries Sportscars waas also very wet with the circuit drying as the meeting went on.

 

The ones I went to were 1968. 69, 72, 73, 76, 77, 79 and 80, all in April, and I think every meeting was dry. Very lucky. I think my only other trip to Thruxton was for the F5000 in 1974, the year the circuit had no F2 event. That was in May and, I'm fairly certain, it was warm and sunny. 

[Andrew Fellowes]

Time to wrap up warm and enjoy some footage from the 1973 International Trophy meeting at Silverstone, courtesy once more of Brian Dandridge. It was bloomin' freezing.

 

 

Thanks for posting the link, for once I can say I was there but really only to watch brother in the Historic Race!

[john winfield]

Thanks for posting the link, for once I can say I was there but really only to watch brother in the Historic Race!

Andrew, in the Maserati. Of course!

[Andrew Fellowes]

John yes indeed, when we took the car over to Silverstone we went to the Green Man, it was empty but after a few minutes Mike Hailwood and a couple of other drivers walked in, I do remember tying to not look utterly gob smacked as we stood there chatting away with them!

Edit. I was a very impressionable 23 year old!

Edited by Andrew Fellowes, 15 March 2024 - 02:22.

[2F-001]

We attended every year from 1970 to the end of the F3000 era, often windswept and cold - and quite possibly more so in those wretched grandstands at Woodcote and the startline than outside! Looking back, I wish we had ventured around the circuit more frequently than we did at the Intl Trophy - something we always did at the endurance races, usually a whole lap at and more of the circuit. Whatever, those events have provided many memories of often climatically-uncomfortable but happy days spent with my father.

Edited by 2F-001, 15 March 2024 - 13:06.

[GazChed]

The ones I went to were 1968. 69, 72, 73, 76, 77, 79 and 80, all in April, and I think every meeting was dry. Very lucky. I think my only other trip to Thruxton was for the F5000 in 1974, the year the circuit had no F2 event. That was in May and, I'm fairly certain, it was warm and sunny.

I remember the Whit Monday Formula 5000 meeting at Thruxton in 1974 as it was the first time I had been to a 'proper' race meeting (as opposed to scrambles, autocross, stock cars etc) aand can confirm it was indeed a gloriously warm and sunny day.