373 replies to this topic

[Allen Brown]

David knows this already and doubtless had a mischievous grin on his face as he posted. McLaren called their M4A-based F1 car the M4B but Trojan used that very same designation for the Formula B version of the Formula 2 M4A. Once it got to the US, it was often referred to as the Mk 4 if for no better reason than it followed the Mk 3 (the M1C).

I wish I'd never started this digression!

Allen

[Alan Cox]

The ex-Bob Rose M1, now owned and raced by Chris Wilson, seen here sharing with Richard Pilkington at Donington's See Red meeting, September 2006

[cstlhn]

My contributions are from the LA Times GP in 1964,





Bruce McLaren DNF

[Jerry Entin]

Tyler Alexander leaning in and Teddy Mayer. I believe Wally Willmott is at the back without his shirt. Great picture Dave! Spare tire mount and security hold down by a young Howden Ganley.

[Cynic]

Jerry, these are all for you, from the 1967 SCCA Runoffs at Daytona. Last race of the day, so please forgive the darkness. They demonstrate an interesting variety of detail:


Oscar Koveleski -- front and rear spoilers



George Alderman -- rear spoiler only, unusual exhausts, mirrors to see over trucks



Jerry Crawford -- rear spoiler only



Bobby Aylward -- front spoiler, integrated rear spoiler, blown engine

[Jerry Entin]

Great pictures! Thanks for posting them Dave. Bobby Aylward had some great cars. At the time of his death he had a MK 6 McLaren. It is now owned by Leonard Janke I believe. The car Oscar Koveleski is in was the Skip Barber car. It was the sister car to the one I had. Mine had a Traco 333 cu. in. engine and Skip Barber had a Traco 365 cu. in. engine in his. Mine had about 420 horsepower and Skip had close to 480 hp. Oscar finished 2nd in this race . It was won by Jerry Hansen in the ex Sunoco Lola T-70. Oscar had Skip Barber's regular mechanic Terry Seckert take care of the car for him. It ran great and Oscar was clocked at 187 mph through the speed traps.

[Allen Brown]

Wow, colour pictures of the 1967 ARRC! Didn't catch the mysterious Lewis Williams "BRM" in the Formula A race did you? When Doug and I went through the BRMs for his series of BRM books a couple of years ago, the Lewis Williams car was the only one we couldn't confidently identify.

Allen

[Cynic]

Hi, Allen,

Well, not at the ARRC, but rather at a National race; I think this is Selma, Alabama, although memory tells me it might be at Pensacola, Florida. I have may one or two other photos, and someone had a Cooper F1 at the same race (!).

David

[Allen Brown]

David, you hero! Doug will be interested in those photos. That's a P261 I think, so almost certainly chassis 2613.

May I use those pictures on OldRacingCars.com?

Allen

(PS Apologies for this temporary disruption of the M1 thread)

[Cynic]

Allen,

Certainly you can use them. I'll send you larger versions you can adapt as necessary.

David

[cstlhn]

Riverside 1965. This car finished 3rd!



David

[Jerry Entin]

1967 Elkhart lake 500. Charlie Parsons in Carl Haas's McLaren. Chuck won this race co- driver was Skip Scott. He also finished 2nd driving with Jerry Hansen in another McLaren.
photo lent to site by Tom Schultz-copyright 2006 Tom Schultz.

[Macca]

That red BRM P261..............looks as though it's not wearing the original nose but rather one from the 4-w-d P67.



Paul M

[GeorgeTheCar]

Interesting to see orange McLaren M1's as the team ran dark red cars.

The first orange cars were the M6's run at Elkart Lake in September of 1967

[Jerry Entin]

Chuck Parsons in 1966 at Monterey. He drove this car earlier at Elkhart lake in the 500 mile race.
photo lent site Ike Smith-Don Korntved photo

Chuck Winning Elkhart lake 500. He drove solo to the win. This is in 1966.
Gil Munz photo

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

My McLaren M1 pix from Mosport
By the author
All rights reserved

Event: Player's 200 1965 at Mosport

First, below, Ludwig Heimrath's 289 Ford V-8 powered car arrives. Bright yellow paint with
sponsorship from Keating Ford, a Montreal dealer, irrc.




Below, the Boss' car. Brunce's own M1A. Olds V-8 power. Lovely red with silver trim.




Below, Augie Pabst's M1A also with Olds power. Beautiful shade of medium blue with silver
trim. This car burned to the waterline at the Canadian GP in September at Mosport. I was
spectating with some buddies at T1 for the race...where we saw Herb Swan's Elva-BMW also
reduced to ashes...when we saw ominous smoke coming from the area of T3. After the race, we
went over to see what the trouble was and found the sad remains of Augie's car on the track
verge. Utterly destroyed. I can so clearly remember seeing the transaxle with the side of
the case blown off...undoubtedly due to the gear oil frying in the extreme heat...and the
gear cluster hanging half out the side of the casing. For decades later, the spot was still
easily identifiable...nothing grew there...the fire had sterilized the ground and no grass
would grow. Only after some track work in the mid-late 1990's did the area become
indistinct. Two images.







Event: Player's 200 1966 at Mosport

Below, John Cordts' M1A with Chevy V-8 mill. Car owner Dave Billes. Jet black livery. The
car was seriously damaged in a fire at Harewood Acres mid-season and showed for the very
first running of the Mosport CanAm with Chinook...1965 Chaparral-like...coachwork. Fires and M1A's...hmmm...was there a problem inherent with this model? Cause for thought...




Below, Rich Muther's M1A with Chevy V-8 power. White with red stripe. Note the canards.
Two images






Below, Lothar Mothchenbacher's M1B with Old V-8 motor. Silver.




Below, from a wooden platform erected high in a tree opposite the pits, the field assembles

then rolls off for the start of the Player's 200. Identified here are:

Row 1: McLaren(inside)& Motchenbaher
Row 2: Cannon & Parsons
Row 3: Jones & Kronn
Row 4: Cordts & Weitzes
Row 5: Patrick & Amon

Two images.






Below, Ludwig Heimrath's M1B with 289 Ford V-8 power and pea shooter headers. At least for
the moment.




Below

Event: Unknown; location: Mosport; pre-CanAm, 1996.

Heimrath McLaren M1B
This was a most fascinating entry for the year 1966. As noted above, it initially showed
with the very typical small-block Ford engine that had seen fine service in many a racer
over the last several years. Mid-season, however, Ludwig appeared with the engine bay
stuffed chock-a-block with an iron block Ford 427 V-8 sucking gas through a single 4-bbl
carb and exhaust via 8 zoomies...(see post # 53,

http://forums.autosp...198#post2559198

with the specific reference to,

http://www.autocours...anam/index.html

for a pix of the car with the zoomies; can't identify the induction from that pix, tho.)

I have a fond(?)recollection of this car/driver from a National Championship event at
Mosport mid-season. I was in training to become a CRCA marshal but missed a classroom
session that pretty much scuppered my chances there. I was, however, a member of the CRCA,
the Canadian Racing Communications Association, and had a membership card. That got me into
a lot of races for free I can tell you! LOL! At the event mentioned, no marshal was
stationed at the end of pit lane to clear cars for leaving the pits and gaining the track
during a practice session. I took it upon myself...completely without authorization...to
tackle the job and took up my station at the end of the lane at trackside. I was in glory
at waving cars out or holding some back to wait for the track to clear. Along comes
Heimrath tooling slowly down pit lane and looking to go for his session. It's clear to wave
him out. He's 40-50 meters from my spot when I give him the all clear. He puts the hammer
down hard, the car leaps ahead like it was shot from a canon, the car snakes sideways as it
makes the transition from pitlane to the racing surface proper and he brushes by all of about 2
feet off my right side doing about 100 mph or as near as dammit. Got my money's worth that
day!

The two images I have to offer are from a later race than my little adventure mentioned
above and I suspect it may have been in early September...Indian Summer Trophy Races?...just
prior to the 1966 CanAm which in those days wall in the fall. The car has been upgraded with a set of four down-draught Webers and now sports 4-into-1 headers per side. You'll note the addition of aero aids compared to its first outing at the Player's 200 back in June. Ludwig was typically the class of the field in these races and would have normally had things his own way but in this event, a surprise entry surfaced in the form of John Cannon in his McLaren M1B-Chevy. Clearly, 'Boomer' was looking to get some pre-CanAm practice under his belt despite the fact that he was an old hand at Mosport having run many a race there in Dave Greenblatt's Dailu in 1962
and with Comstock in 1963. The two staged a spirited race in the feature with Heimrath
leading only inches ahead of Cannon for many a lap before John edged by to pull away for a
narrow win. A buddy of mine caught a few words from John in the paddock after the race and
he was heard to say that he and Ludwig were pretty much even everywhere but that he 'could
thump him in T2'.





Pardons for the poor quality of the images especially the long shots. My piece was barely one step removed from a pin hole camera.

[cstlhn]

One from the Stardust Race in 1966;



Cheers, David

[JSF]

Great photos Manfred, the chinook is a very odd looking car, the chassis is very much a copy of the M1B but doesnt have a detachable chassis section to the top of the rear bulkhead. It's bodywork looks all out of proportion with it copying the much wider chaparal.

Interesting photo David, it looks like the beginings of the M1C rear bodywork taking shape on the M1B body there. Also the NACA duct in the front body, do you know what that is used for?

I dont see any seat belts on the 65 shots and it looks like this car has none either? When in 66 was that race?

There is a nice photo in this months Octane magazine of our M1B during the driver change at Donington at the same event as the pictue shown by Alan Cox earlier.

[RickT]

Manfred
Wonderful photos ! Really good to see period shots of privateer M1A's.



JSF
The Chinooks did have removable crossmembers on the rear bulkhead, just like an M1.

Cheers
Richard

[JSF]

The one i worked next to didnt Richard.

[RickT]

Sorry to disagree JSF

I have personally restored the Chinook Mk5 that was at Goodwood both this year and last year, and am now in the process of restoring a Mk2. I can assure you that both cars definately have removable crossmembers. The chassis are very close copies of McLaren M1's, they differ only in small details. On the Mk5 the crossmember is in fact machined out of a piece of solid magnesium, rather than a steel fabrication like the McLaren's and the Chinook Mk2 we are currently restoring. Perhaps you were misled due to the Mk5's wing mounting brackets/plates which sandwich the crossmember and tend to cover up the split somewhat.

I am guessing I might be talking to John ? Do you work on Richard Dodkins cars ?

Cheers
Richard

[JSF]

Hi Richard, Guilty as charged.

Very strange, it's one of the few things on the car i remember looking at and discusing with you. I must be getting old.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

My complete Chinook library of photos...all three of 'em! LOL!
Snaps by the author
All rights etc, etc.

Venue: Mosport
Event: Unknown but mid to late Summer for sure.
Year: Almost certainly 1966 and quite likely the same event wherein I took the later photos of Heimrath's M1B.
Driver: don't recall but perhaps Nat Adams.

I was starting to drift away from shooting these low-quality images with the little Kodak. Sigh...wish I'd kept it up and upgraded my equipment. It got to the point that I didn't even bother logging the data on the back as per normal. Hence, the spotty particulars.











As noted previously, when the Billes car for John Cordts appeared for the CanAm go at Mosport in '66, it sported Chinook panels painted black. My first glimpse of the car was on-track and I didn't have a clue what it was or who was driving. Cordts brought it home P2(behind Earl Jones?)in the consie race and made the final as a reward, iirc. The car looked a little tatty to be frank and I was amused to see John seated rather bolt upright in a strange posture. I didn't find out til very late in the consie when I finally picked up the audio from the PA and learned that it was the Billes entry.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

In post # 166, I made mention in the Augie Pabst section of my photos of Herb Swan's Elva Mk7/BMW going up in flames as well. Here's a snap of it at the Player'200 in June. It's rear bonnet is open here. Very nicely turned out. During the GP, Herb was seen to dash to the infield just past the pits, park the car and bail out smartly. Almost immediately, smoke and flame engulfed the car. Marshals responding could do nothing particularly when the magnesium wheels...I believe the car was so fitted...caught light. They had nothing to combat that type of fire. We witnessed one marshal's desparation. He had a very large extinguisher...one of the invert then bump the top types to break the seal before operation. Try as he might, it wouldn't activate. Finally, he just threw the entire works into the flaming cockpit I suppose hoping that the cansister would rupture in some kind of explosion in the blaze and the expelling of the retarding powder would help knock out the fire. Didn't happen. After the race, we went over to inspect the remains. Precious little to see...a complete loss. Where the wheels came to rest, four molten pools of metal. Very sad.



In looking at this pix just today and scanning it for posting here at TNF, I can't help but notice the interesting little number parked alongside Herb's Elva. Took no notice of it the day I took the shot. Wish I had now! Quite fascintating.

[Jerry Entin]

Bud Morley's answer to Formula 5000 design. Take a McLaren Mk 2 throw the body away and you have a Formula A or 5000 car. This is from Monterey in 1968. That's Brett Lunger next to Bud Morley in the #11 Caldwell D-8. Brett had his own McLaren Mk 2 in the day.
photo Gil Munz-scanned for site Ike Smith

[Alan Cox]

Great photos and memories, Manfred. Thank you for posting them.

[JSF]

Thats different Jerry!

[Allen Brown]

There's another picture of that car here. There were two of them and they worked quite well.

Allen

[Jerry Entin]

Lothar Motschenbacher's Mk 2 at St Jovite in 1966. Lothar had over 10 McLarens in his racing days and was very good friends with Bruce McLaren.

Nickey Chevrolet Mk 2 at Bridgehampton in 1966. Charlie Hayes driven.

Roy Campbell next to PaceSetter Homes McLaren driven by Masten Gregory.
all photos Gil Munz-scanned by Ike Smith

[Jerry Entin]

Joe Starkey's McLaren Mk 1.

Chris Amon, Riverside 1966- Team McLaren
photos Gil Munz-scanned Ike Smith

[JSF]

Originally posted by Jerry Entin

Roy Campbell next to PaceSetter Homes McLaren driven by Masten Gregory.
all photos Gil Munz-scanned by Ike Smith

Which is now campaigned by Julian Bronson.

[Jerry Entin]

Here is Harvey Lasiter in his McLaren MK 1. It was the ex Chic Vandagriff Hollywood Sportscars McLaren. This was for a Puritan Shirt commercial shot at Orange County Raceway. The guy in charge of the race car shots was Bob Bondurant. The guy with the mustache is me Jerry Entin and next to me is Charlie Agapiou.
Photo lent site Ron Johnson

[Jerry Entin]

Lothar Motschenbacher at the Road America 500 in 1966.
photo Jim Caspary-lent site Tom Schultz-copyright 2007 Jim Caspary

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

I recall the paint scheme, Jerry. I was at the 1966 Mosport CanAm to see some of the Nickey entries. The soft and understated elegance of the purple/mauve on white was very tasteful indeed. Thanks for throwing up that colour pix.

[Jerry Entin]

Manfred I am glad you enjoy seeing the picture. You have RA Historian to thank. He sent it to me.

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by Manfred Cubenoggin
Thanks for throwing up that colour pix.

Perhaps a different choice of words would work better.......

Seriously, thanks for the kinds words, and thanks to Jerry who posts the photos I send his way because he has figured out the rocket science of posting here while I have not. again....

[S&M Minis]

Various M1's at Mid Ohio, 08/29/65. Cars entered for Charlie Hayes, Ludwig Heimrath, Dick Macon (Red), Augie Pabst (Blue #7), and Ralph Salyer (#26). All photos by Randy McConnell.

[Jerry Entin]

My McLaren at Stardust Race in Las Vegas in 1965.

[David M. Kane]

Jerry:

Was cockpit cooling issue with these cars; or was it just the desert temperatures of Las Vegas?

[Jerry Entin]

Graham Hill in McLaren Mk 1 at the Riverside Grand Prix in 1965.
Dave Kane:
I didn't put those cooling hoses in there. It was done for Graham Hill at Riverside. I bought the car like that. It wasn't that hot at either race.

Photo- Allen Kuhn- copyright 2007 Allen Kuhn

Edited by Jerry Entin, 16 November 2009 - 01:53.

[Jerry Entin]

The best McLaren Mk 2 driver I have ever seen. The great Mike Spence, at Monterey along side Chuck Parsons in 1967.
photo Ike Smith Collection

[raceannouncer2003]

Jerry,

Here you go...would this be the Chuck Parsons car?

http://www.coys.co.u...ion=62&id=45070

Vince H.

[Jerry Entin]

Vince : That car isn't the Chuck Parsons car from 1967. We called the cars Mk3's. The car Chuck Parsons had is in Northen California. That article claims that McLaren customers opted for Mk3's. That isn't true. Trojan gave the US customers these cars through Carl Haas. While Bruce McLaren and Denis Hulme ran Mk6's. The American customers weren't given the choice. That was the only car that was avaliable to US customers. Carl Haas switched to Lola for 1968.

[JSF]

Super Photo's Jerry. Look at the angle of attack on the Parson's M1C's rear wing, holy stall and drag batman! Rather a large low presure generator in front of the oil cooler exit vent too.

Interesting NACA duct on the front of the M1B too.

If you look closely at the cars, there isnt a single one that is the same, for example the Masten Gregory car has some blisters in the rear wheel arches, presumably to clear the top corners of the conventional style oil coolers. That car now runs a couple of smaller Cesna aircraft oil coolers that dont require the blisters.

[Jerry Entin]

JSF: I didn't want to say it but in the picture I put up, Mike Spence is lapping Chuck Parsons. Mike Spence was as good a driver as I had ever seen. He was nothing short of unbelievable in that McLaren Mk 2.

[JSF]

Chuck must have complained of a lack of power in that race.

It's funny how some drivers really shine with one particular car or series, some are fabulous at maximising a low power setup, others really excell with more power than grip. I think CanAm really highlighted those kind of driver diferences.

[Allen Brown]

Tony Figuereido in the ex Bob Olthoff/David Prophet McLaren M1 in the paddock at Donny brook, Salisbury, Rhodesia. Photo courtesy of Pat Figuereido and sent to me by Doug Brown.



Allen

[Alan Cox]

A propos the photo above, posted by Allen Brown

Photo by Tim Blackburn
David Prophet's McLaren at the Guards Trophy meeting, Brands Hatch 1965

[ssperka]

Below is a picture I took of the Bud Gates McLaren M1A at its third outing from new, the 1965 Road America 500 on Sept. 12. The car, as pictured, IIRC, suffered from a split fuel tank and was a DNF. Considering the spread of fuel evident around the car, it’s a miracle the whole place didn’t erupt into flames! Its presence was a factor in the distance from the car from which I took the picture!




More 1965 RA500 photos: http://www.racingspo...9-05-photo.html

This car is currently listed for sale. I am cutting and pasting the description as for sale info doesn’t always stay on the web for long, so this is a more permanent record. It is listed as a 1965 model with chassis number 20/08. The nose, as currently configured, is quite different from the original.

“Very rare and splendid M 1 A 1965 . Delivered new in USA to Bud GAtes . After his death given to his personnal méchanic who kept the car for all those years . We bought the car 2 years ago from him and made a complete and major upgrade service to make the car "ready to race " . This car is the very first one delivered with the chevy 5000cc Engine by Elva . A new magnesium set of wheels will be suply and original Elva log book . Very impressive and powerfull car .”

The link to the sales description above:
http://www.classicdr...advanced_search

[zoff2005]

Originally posted by Jerry Entin

The best McLaren Mk 2 driver I have ever seen. The great Mike Spence, at Monterey along side Chuck Parsons in 1967.
photo Ike Smith Collection

The photo is no longer there but are you referring to the car I saw him drive at the Mosport CanAm in 1967, which I think was the ex-Amon 1966 car then driven by Ross de St. Croix in the Canadian championship (belonging to Soucy?). I agree Spence was absolutely fantastic, I think he was up to 2nd at one point.
Marcus