24 replies to this topic

[Marc Ceulemans]

Has anyone a schedule and the results of the Sportscars German national championships in 1939?

Reichenweilner (1100 cc), Röse (1500 cc) and Polensky (1500) were the leaders of the championships after the Grossglockner hillclimb (which was part of the championship). But which other events counted ? I suppose Hamburg (7 May), Nurburgring (21 May), Schotten (9 July). Of course the last events were cancelled because of the war.

For the point system, the winners received 5 points, the 2nd 3 points and the 3rd 1 point.

[David McKinney]

The 11 June Vienna hillclimb was probably a round as well, and there was also a sportscar race at the 23 July German GP meeting
The (incomplete) results I have of sportscar races in the Reich in 1939 are as follows:

2000
Hamburg stadtpark 7/5
1 Helmut Polensky (Neumaier-BMW)
2 Willi Briem (BMW)
3 Paul Greifzu (BMW)
4 Adolf Brudes (BMW)
5 Paul Unzner (BMW)
DNF: H J Aldington (BMW)
DNS: Franz Werneck (BMW spl)
DNS: Fritz von Hanstein (BMW)

Eifelrennen 21/5
1 Petre Cristea (BMW spl)
2 Werneck
3 Briem

Wien-Kahlenberg 11/6
1 Werneck
2 von Hanstein
3 Peter Vogel (BMW)
4 “Retulsch” (ie Walter Schluter, BMW Special)

Rund um Schotten 9/7
1 von Hanstein
2 Briem
3 Paul Heinemann (BMW)
DNF: Polensky

Nürburgring ?23/7
1 Polensky
2 von Hanstein
3 Werneck

Großglockner 6/8
??
Championship: 1 Polensky, 2 von Hanstein, 3 Briem

1500
Hamburg stadtpark 7/5
1 Wiswedel (MG)

Eifelrennen 21/5
1 Ralph Roese (BMW 315 special)
2 Nürnberger (MG)
3 Werner Hillegaart (HRG)
DNF: Wiswedel

Wien-Kahlenberg 11/6
??

Rund um Schotten 9/7
??

Nürburgring ?23/7
??

Großglockner 6/8
??
Championship: 1 Roese, 2 Hermann Kathrein (Neumaier-BMW 315), 3 Wiswedel, 4 Heinz Mölders (MG); Alex von Falkenhausen (short-stroke BMW 328) unplaced

1100
Hamburg stadtpark 7/5
1 Gottfried Vollmer (Neander-JAP)

Eifelrennen 21/5
1 Adolf Reichenwallner (Fiat special)
2 Josef Hummel (BMW)
3 M Neuber (Fiat)

Wien-Kahlenberg 11/6
??

Rund um Schotten 9/7
1 ??
2 Teddy Vorster (MG)

Nürburgring ?23/7
??

Großglockner 6/8
??
Championship: 1 Reichenwallner

[Egon Thurner]

Marc, there is a thread about it in McRonalds Forum, in the 'Lower Formulae' section (page 5 at the moment) named DM 1939.

[Marc Ceulemans]

Now I understand why I've found nothing in the "search BB" section

[uechtel]

Sorry, missed this one. So good idea to bump it up again.

The 11 June Vienna hillclimb was probably a round as well, and there was also a sportscar race at the 23 July German GP meeting

To my knowledge that´s not true. The results you give below seem to be mismatched with the Großglockner event.

Here the additions from my records:

2000
Hamburg stadtpark 7/5
1 Helmut Polensky (Neumaier-BMW)

No - Polensky used a standard BMW 328 in this race:



No. 57 Polensky, No. 41 Aldington in the prototype Frazer Nash, No. 58 unknown, No. 25 absolutely unidentified (I think a car from the 1500 class perhaps), behind that probably an Adler and No. 118 seems to be something of Italian origin, perhaps some Fiat from the 1100 cc class.

2 Willi Briem (BMW) NSKK entry 3 Paul Greifzu (BMW)
4 Adolf Brudes (BMW) NSKK entry
5 Paul Unzner (BMW)
DNF: H J Aldington (BMW)
DNS: Franz Werneck (BMW spl)
DNS: Fritz von Hanstein (BMW)

Eifelrennen 21/5
1 Petre Cristea (BMW spl)
2 Werneck (BMW 328 Spezial)
3 Briem (BMW 328) NSKK entry
DNF: Greifzu (BMW 328)
?: Heinemann (BMW 328)
?: Neumaier (Neumaier Spezial)
?: W. Schlüter (BMW 328 Spezial)
?: Richter (BMW 328) NSKK entry
11 starters

Wien-Kahlenberg 11/6
1 Werneck (BMW 328 Spezial)
2 von Hanstein (BMW 328)
3 Peter Vogel (BMW)
4 “Retulsch” (ie Walter Schluter, BMW Special)

Rund um Schotten 9/7
1 von Hanstein (BMW 328)
2 Briem (BMW 328)
3 Paul Heinemann (BMW)
DNF: Polensky (Neumaier Spezial)
?: Cristea (BMW 328 Spl.)
?: Schlüter (BMW 328 Spezial)

Nürburgring ?23/7
1 Polensky
2 von Hanstein
3 Werneck

Großglockner 6/8
1 Polensky (Neumaier Spezial)
2 von hanstein (BMW 328)
3 Werneck (BMW 328 Spezial)
4 Briem (BMW 328) NSKK entry
5 Greifzu (BMW 328) NSKK entry
6 Heinemann (BMW 328) NSKK entry
?: Martin (BMW 328)
?: Schlüter (BMW 328 Spezial)
?: Petzold (Ford)

Championship: 1 Polensky, 2 von Hanstein, 3 Briem

1500
Hamburg stadtpark 7/5
1 Wiswedel (MG)
2 Roese (BMW 315 Spezial)
3 von Falkenhausen (BMW 328 short stroke) NSKK entry

Eifelrennen 21/5
1 Ralph Roese (BMW 315 special)
2 Nürnberger (MG)
3 Werner Hillegaart (HRG)
DNF: Wiswedel

Wien-Kahlenberg 11/6
1 Mölders (MG Spezial)
2 Wiswedel (MG Spezial)
3 HG Mall (MG Spezial)

Rund um Schotten 9/7
1 Mölders (MG Spezial)
2 Rosenhammer (ARo-BMW 315/1 Spezial)
3 Kathrein (Neumaier Spezial)

Nürburgring ?23/7
??

Großglockner 6/8
1 Kathrein (Neumaier Spezial)
3 Rosenhammer (ARo-BMW 315/1 Spezial)
5 Mölders (MG Spezial)
7 HG Mall (MG Spezial)

Championship: 1 Roese, 2 Hermann Kathrein (Neumaier-BMW 315), 3 Wiswedel, 4 Heinz Mölders (MG); Alex von Falkenhausen (short-stroke BMW 328) unplaced

1100
Hamburg stadtpark 7/5
1 Gottfried Vollmer (Neander-JAP)

plus seven other unidentified starters:



In particular I would be interested to learn about car No. 30. Fiat I assume?

[eukie]

Originally posted by uechtel

In particular I would be interested to learn about car No. 30. Fiat I assume?

Might be Reichenwallner's Fiat in 1938 spec:




Whereas 1939, GP Germany:

[uechtel]

Originally posted by eukie

Might be Reichenwallner's Fiat in 1938 spec:

Yes I think that´s him. Really a beautiful car.

Whereas 1939, GP Germany:

Perhaps to make the car look more modern, but in my eyes the older shape looked better. So a mid-season rebuild?

Also the caption of the first picture irritates me. Sounds like published post war? But if so, then why does it refer to car´s the old shape?

[eukie]

uechtel, you know the somewhat chaotic character of my archive, so please don't ask me where I got these images from. : But you're right, the first one seems to be from a postwar publication.
BTW, if you look into Melenk's "Meister des Sports", p. 66 you will find the car again. Reichenwallner died during the war, but his car (of 1937 origin) was driven until 1952 by Max Neuber (IIRC from Munich, too), and then by Richard Kaiser, especially in the GDR. And the picture there (sorry, no scan at hand) shows it in kind of Intertype-style ...
The body seen at the 1939 German GP is reported to have come from Roselli (source: AAZ).

[dretceterini]

I believe both #39 and #51 are Fiat/Siatas

[uechtel]

Possible. At least they are one and the same car.

@eukie, thanks for the tip. But Melenk says it´s a NSU/Fiat, which in my eyes is a contradiction to the assumed Italian origin.

What confuses me further is, that we have Neuber already in a Fiat in third place at the Eifelrennen 1939, two positions behind Reichenwallner, but in the same race. So perhaps Melenk is wrong on this one and we deal with two completely different cars? That would also explain, why the car on Melenk´s picture looks so totally different to the photos you posted above.

By the way in the 1949 issue of "Motorsport + Motorradwelt", report about the Sachsenring, it is stated, that Neuber lived at Neukirchen (near Chemnitz). A Munich resident moving to Chemnitz in those years is even more strange.

[GIGLEUX]

MM1938 the Fiat Zagato 1500 of Ovidio Capelli. Capelli was to become champion in 1500 sports cars category.

[eukie]

Originally posted by uechtel
Possible. At least they are one and the same car.

@eukie, thanks for the tip. But Melenk says it´s a NSU/Fiat, which in my eyes is a contradiction to the assumed Italian origin.

What confuses me further is, that we have Neuber already in a Fiat in third place at the Eifelrennen 1939, two positions behind Reichenwallner, but in the same race. So perhaps Melenk is wrong on this one and we deal with two completely different cars? That would also explain, why the car on Melenk´s picture looks so totally different to the photos you posted above.

By the way in the 1949 issue of "Motorsport + Motorradwelt", report about the Sachsenring, it is stated, that Neuber lived at Neukirchen (near Chemnitz). A Munich resident moving to Chemnitz in those years is even more strange.

I won`t bother about that shape of the Neuber-car - why shouldn`t it have been transformed in such a radical way? We have other examples for that, for instance one or another BMW 328 come BMW-special. But you`re right - Neuber = Neukirchen, my mistake, and it sounds more likely that he used his pre-war Fiat again. So it may have been Reichenwallner-prepared, too, or Melenk confuses the whole thing?
Since Reichenwallner's cars 1938 and 1939 have two (slightly) different registration numbers: does this mean that we have two different cars? Or would a new body have required a new registration number?

[uechtel]

Originally posted by GIGLEUX


MM1938 the Fiat Zagato 1500 of Ovidio Capelli. Capelli was to become champion in 1500 sports cars category.

Yes indeed, that looks like being from the same workshop. But the bodywork lines look very classic anyway.

[uechtel]

Originally posted by eukie


I won`t bother about that shape of the Neuber-car - why shouldn`t it have been transformed in such a radical way? We have other examples for that, for instance one or another BMW 328 come BMW-special. But you`re right - Neuber = Neukirchen, my mistake, and it sounds more likely that he used his pre-war Fiat again. So it may have been Reichenwallner-prepared, too, or Melenk confuses the whole thing?

You know how difficult it can be to sort all those cars out properly, so I think you have to be careful with every compilation and we don´t know where Melenk has his information from. Therefore I always tend rather to believe evidence, in this case it makes much more sense to me, that Neuber continued with his own car.

Since Reichenwallner's cars 1938 and 1939 have two (slightly) different registration numbers: does this mean that we have two different cars? Or would a new body have required a new registration number?

Don´t know that. Perhaps it was de-registrated during the time of the rebuilt in order to save tax and when he wanted to register again the old number was no longer available?

Anyway it seems that Reichenwallner preferred double 1s and double 5s.

[eukie]

Originally posted by dretceterini
I believe both #39 and #51 are Fiat/Siatas

Seems you're right, one contemporary report I looked up yesterday says that it was a Siata Fiat.

[alessandro silva]

Capelli's 1500 was bodied by ZAGATO.

Reichwallner's 1939 car was bodied by COLLI and the engine had a ROSELLI head. NO SIATAS. It was delivered to Reichwallner in April 1939. So it was probably a different car from that of 1938, or it only kept the chassis. I have no information on it. Reichwallner's sister car was made for Beltracchini who sold it to the de Saugé in 1946.

[uechtel]

Hey, that could be the explanation for Melenk connecting Neuber´s car with Reichenwallner. What if Reichenwallner sold his previous car to Neuber when he received the new Colli/Roselli-Fiat for the Eifelrennen 1939?

[eukie]

Originally posted by uechtel
Hey, that could be the explanation for Melenk connecting Neuber´s car with Reichenwallner. What if Reichenwallner sold his previous car to Neuber when he received the new Colli/Roselli-Fiat for the Eifelrennen 1939?

Maybe we should show the people here what we are talking about:

from: Wolfgang Melenk, Meister des Sports - Automobilrennsport in der DDR, p.66. The caption says: Richard Kaiser auf Reichenwallner NSU/Fiat

[dretceterini]

Originally posted by alessandro silva
Capelli's 1500 was bodied by ZAGATO.

Reichwallner's 1939 car was bodied by COLLI and the engine had a ROSELLI head. NO SIATAS. It was delivered to Reichwallner in April 1939. So it was probably a different car from that of 1938, or it only kept the chassis. I have no information on it. Reichwallner's sister car was made for Beltracchini who sold it to the de Saugé in 1946.

Allesandro:

Thanks very much for that information on the Reichwallner car.

[Kvadrat]

Did these races have common start for all classes?

[uechtel]

Hard to tell, as I am not completely familiar with the pre-war events, but if the post-war format was the continuation of the pre-war habit then usually a subset of classes (not necessarily all of them, depending on track length, numbers of entrants etc.) some kind of shared the circuit. Means while the different classes ran their races simultaneously they were not released in a common start, but usually with a minute´s distance.

For example at one event the Formula 2 class started from the same grid, a minute ahead of the 1.5 litre sports car class, while the 2 litre and 1.1 litre class did the same in a separate run and Forumla 3 had a race of its own. And at the next event perhaps this time Formula 3 was combined with 1.1 litre sports cars, 1.5 and 2.0 litre sports cars together and Formula 2 in a race of its own. Appeared never really systematically to me.

I think pre war it was very much the same, only less number of classes.

[Kvadrat]

Originally posted by Egon Thurner
Marc, there is a thread about it in McRonalds Forum, in the 'Lower Formulae' section (page 5 at the moment) named DM 1939.

Please, give link at the forum.

Originally posted by eukie


Might be Reichenwallner's Fiat in 1938 spec:

Originally posted by eukie

Maybe we should show the people here what we are talking about:

from: Wolfgang Melenk, Meister des Sports - Automobilrennsport in der DDR, p.66. The caption says: Richard Kaiser auf Reichenwallner NSU/Fiat

Can you tell where and when these pictures were taken?

[uechtel]

The first one looks like Hockenheim (dense forest in the background and in 1938 Hockenheim was part of the championship), the second one is some East german event to be recognized by the many flags in the background. Hard to tell where, but possibly the Sachsenring.

[Hugo Boecker]

Originally posted by uechtel
Possible. At least they are one and the same car.

@eukie, thanks for the tip. But Melenk says it´s a NSU/Fiat, which in my eyes is a contradiction to the assumed Italian origin.

What confuses me further is, that we have Neuber already in a Fiat in third place at the Eifelrennen 1939, two positions behind Reichenwallner, but in the same race. So perhaps Melenk is wrong on this one and we deal with two completely different cars? That would also explain, why the car on Melenk´s picture looks so totally different to the photos you posted above.

By the way in the 1949 issue of "Motorsport + Motorradwelt", report about the Sachsenring, it is stated, that Neuber lived at Neukirchen (near Chemnitz). A Munich resident moving to Chemnitz in those years is even more strange.

Just to bring some more confusion in the Reichenwallner - Neuber case.
Max Neuber seems to have owned a NSU Fiat still in 1938

Hamburger Stadtparkrennen 1938 Neuber 3rd
German GP 1938 Neuber entered with # 42 Reichenwallner with 51

I only have poor information about the 1100 class in German Hillclimbs and races. But that shows Neuber had already a car. Maybe the 38 Reichenwallner car ended in just another country and Melenk is wrong ?

[uechtel]

So I think we need some deeper investigation.