669 replies to this topic

[Vitesse2]

Mattijs has kindly updated Unfinished Symphony to incorporate the above new finds. I've also taken the opportunity to correct a couple of minor errors, added some text which I originally omitted regarding Lang's German GP retirement and fine-tuned one or two other sections.

I'd also like to point out that I'm not the first to have suggested that Lang's memory could be "selective". Re-reading "Hitler's Grands Prix in England" a few months ago, I was reminded that Christopher Hilton reached the same conclusion regarding his recall of events in 1938.

[Racer.Demon]

Have now also added the missing notes...

[scheivlak]

Looking for something else I found this contemporary article in a Saturday, August 12 edition of Dutch newspaper ‘Het Vaderland’ - more or less in accordance with the August 4, 1939 report in Automobil-Revue:

http://kranten.kb.nl...ry=1&SeekPage=f

(see column three: ‘Flitsen uit de sportwereld’ – something like “Headlines from the world of sport”)

Translation:

Who is Europe’s best driver?

The struggle for the European drivers’ championship for participants in the Grand Prix that are convened according to the International Formula, which are those of Belgium, France, Germany, Switzerland and Italy, gets near its conclusion. As the Italian GP at Sept. 10 will not go ahead – officially because the improvements to the track will not be ready in time- the decision will fall in the Swiss GP which will be held August 20 in Berne. At this moment the strange thing occurs that it is not yet certain according to which formula the championship will be decided. To be more specific, there are two proposals that don’t make much difference at face value but nevertheless show important differences. The formula proposed by the French gives the winner of a race 10 points, number two 6, number three 5, number four 4, number five three and 1 point for all the other competitors. Contrary to this, the Germans want to see minimum points awarded, i.c. 1 point for the winner, 2 points for number two, 3 points for number three, 4 points for number four, while the other drivers will get between 4 and 7 points according to the distance run.
According to the French system the classification would be as follows: 1. Midler (sic) (Auto Union) 17 points; 2. Caracciola (Mercedes Benz) 12 pnts; 3. Lang (Mercedes Benz) 12 pnts; 4. Meier (Auto-Union) 8 pnts; 5. Sommer (Alfa Romeo) 8 pnts; 6. Hasse (Auto Union) 7 pnts and 7. von Brauchitsch (Mercedes Benz) 7 points.
The German system makes no difference as far as the leader is concerned. Here too Müller would lead, with 7 points. However, Meier would be second with 11 pnts, Lang third with 12 pnts, Caracciola and Von Brauchitsch fourth with 14 pnts and Sommer and Nuvolari (Auto Union) sixth with 15 points.

The article goes ahead with stories about English soccer players either or not being allowed to drive their own cars, and some news about tennis, cricket and the American track and field team.

[Hans Etzrodt]

It's always nice to read what people found in their libraries. This time maybe nothing earth-shattering but certainly entertaining. I hope TNF members keep going to their libraries and tell us about the interesting articles they came across.

[Holger Merten]

Sure Hans!

[Vitesse2]

This minimum method points table was published as part of a race report on the German GP. It's not quite correct, but as Autombil-Revue were at pains to point out, all these tables were unofficial ...

Europameisterschaft für Rennwagen: 1 Müller, Auto-Union, 8 Punkte; 2 Lang, Mercedes-Benz, und Meier, Auto-Union, je 13 Punkte; 4 Caracciola, Mercedes-Benz, v Brauchitsch, Mercedes-Benz, Hasse, Auto Union, Nuvolari, Auto-Union, Sommer (Frankreich), je 15 Punkte.

As a bonus, here's the German Championship table ...

Deutsche Straßenmeisterschaft für Rennwagen: 1 Caracciola 6 Punkte, 2 Lang 5 Punkte 3 Müller 2 Punkte 4 Pietsch (Maserati) 1 Punkt.

Source: Freiburger Zeitung Sportblatt 24/7/39 p2

Despite a lot of searching, I can find no further references to the European Championship in the Freiburger Zeitung :

On the upside, they did manage to find space in their September 4th issue for a brief report on the Belgrade GP, including results of the bike and sports car races

They also managed to publish a report on the 1940 Brescia GP (alias the Mille Miglia)

[Hans Etzrodt]

Quote

Originally posted by Vitesse2
This minimum method points table was published as part of a race report on the German GP. It's not quite correct, but as Autombil-Revue were at pains to point out, all these tables were unofficial ...

Europameisterschaft für Rennwagen:
1 Müller, Auto-Union, 8 Punkte;
2 Lang, Mercedes-Benz, und
2 Meier, Auto-Union, je 13 Punkte;
4 Caracciola, Mercedes-Benz,
4 v Brauchitsch, Mercedes-Benz,
4 Hasse, Auto Union,
4 Nuvolari, Auto-Union,
4 Sommer (Frankreich), je 15 Punkte.

As a bonus, here's the German Championship table ...

Deutsche Straßenmeisterschaft für Rennwagen:
1 Caracciola 6 Punkte,
2 Lang 5 Punkte
3 Müller 2 Punkte
4 Pietsch (Maserati) 1 Punkt.

Source: Freiburger Zeitung Sportblatt 24/7/39 p2

IIUTC You show the standings after the German GP. The minus system was applied for the European Championship but the German Championship used the plus system.

[HDonaldCapps]

I think that it has been mentioned already, but I could nothing in the 1939 AIACR CSI Sporting Code or the Appendices covering this championhsip. There is a copy of the CSI Sporting Code for 1939 in the Bill Milliken Collection at the IMRRC. There is also a copy of the 1950 edition. I have a copy of 1939, but ran out of time when it came to making a copy of the 1950 edition.

[Vitesse2]

Thanks, Don. Hardly a surprise that there's nothing there, I suppose. What would be interesting to know would be:

1 Was the championship mentioned in the previous years' Sporting Codes? The general ignorance about the 'old' scoring system would seem to indicate not, but OTOH copies of these seem to be rarer than hens' teeth, so perhaps nobody's actually checked them?

2 Did the CSI get as far as publishing a 1940 Sporting Code? Probably not ....

[HDonaldCapps]

From what I can gather, it seems unlikely that the European Championship was covered in the Sporting Code. It is not mentioned in the Appendices. Nor, interestingly enough, is the International Formula. The Sporting Code is exactly what its title says: a generic sporting code issued by the CSI of the AIACR. Its provisions, generally, are not all that different than those found in the AAA Contest Rules, for instance, basically guidance of a very generic sort. All the same, an interesting document to have around.

The Euro Championship and the International Formula were obviously dealt with through separate documents issued by the CSI, which, alas, are not in the Milliken Collection.

The Code is presented with English on the even-numbered pages and French on the odd-numbered pages. The Appendices are in a separate booklet, which was a surprise in a way. At some point in the next several days -- I am still sorting out the goodies I found from my visit to the IMRRC -- I will do a more detailed reading of The Code and see if I happened to overlook anything of interest.

[Vitesse2]

I've been doing a bit more digging on that final 1939 GP at Bern and am in the process of rewriting that section of "Unfinished Symphony".

Part of that rewrite was inspired by this photograph in Christian Moity's book "Les Précurseurs de la Formule 1". When I saw it, I thought "Well, yes, just another Bremgarten start picture ...."



Then, I spotted this, right at the back of the grid .....



Who's that getting a push start? Yes - it's Müller! That's why he was so slow away. That's Johnny Wakefield working his way past in the background BTW.

Hans then sent me this one, taken a few seconds later. By now Wakefield's Maserati has successfully negotiated the Auto Union and the only car behind Müller appears to be Evans' old Tipo B Alfa. And there now seem to be three people pushing!



AFAIK not one race report mentions a push start. Unless anyone knows better of course ....;)

[Ren� de Boer]

In Eberhard Reuß' book "Hitlers Rennschlachten", it is mentioned that after the preliminary races, rain set in and Auto Union didn't have sufficient 22 inch rain tyres available from Continental. Therefore, it was decided that only Stuck and Nuvolari would run the final race with rain tyres. About Müller's result in the race, the book reads: "Behind the leading trio of Mercedes drivers Lang-Caracciola-Brauchitsch, Müller has made his way up into fourth place. Although he had made an involuntary 360 degree pirouette at the start on the rain-soaked cobble stones and lost a lot of time as a result."

[Holger Merten]

But why didn't they give the rain tyres to Müller? So stupid to given to Stuck.

[Ren� de Boer]

Reuß explains it by the fact that Stuck had official support from senior SS figures, whereas Nuvolari had the number 1 status in the team, allegedly even guaranteed in his contract. Obviously, it would have been far more logical to give the rain tyres to Müller as he was still in the race for the title.

Concerning the status of Stuck, Reuß refers to an internal document from Auto Union dated July 23th, 1939, where Dr. Feuereissen suggests that "in case only three cars can be ready in time for the Swiss Grand Prix, these should be given to Nuvolari - Müller - Hasse, whereas Dir. Werner replies that, considering the wishes expressed by the SS Reichsführer, which the Auto Union can't ignore, in such a case, Nuvolari - Stuck - Müller will be starting".

[fines]

Quote

Originally posted by Vitesse2
AFAIK not one race report mentions a push start.

THAT, of course, means instant disqualification! Sorry chaps, but no title for Müller

"Herr Müller, bitte melden Sie sich bei der Rennleitung! Sie sind ab sofort vom Rennen ausgeschlossen!"

"Herr Müller, please gif in! Ve haf disqualified you!"

[uechtel]

Quote

Abseits ist wenn der Schiedsrichter pfeift...

Means it depends on how the race direction has reacted and not on how we understand the rules.

If he was disqualified we should find that in any [official] result list.

There are areas where assistance is allowed (the pits for example). We don´t know whether this would have been also on the grid.

[fines]

Quote

Originally posted by uechtel
If he was disqualified we should find that in any [official] result list.

;) I wasn't REALLY suggesting that - where's the irony smiley?

[uechtel]

here:

[Vitesse2]

Quote

Originally posted by Holger Merten
But why didn't they give the rain tyres to Müller? So stupid to given to Stuck.

Well, yes and no, Holger.

Reuß says that AU took the decision to switch from 18-inch to 22-inch rims after the heat, which was run in dry conditions, as their smaller tyres had proved inadequate. But there is - AFAIK - no definite evidence that any of the Auto Unions was on dry tyres for the final. Therefore, Müller and Hasse almost certainly started on 18-inch wets.

Now, Reuß ignores Hasse completely when discussing the race - you'd almost think he wasn't there! But he was, and it was only after I'd looked at the race again that I realised that it was in fact Hasse who was the most aggressive of the AU drivers in the early stages. Despite starting from near the back, next to Müller on row 4, he passed Stuck and actually ran in sixth place behind the MBs, Farina's Alfetta and Nuvolari. So - he was initially outdriving all his team-mates: not an indication that he was on dry tyres I think. Müller was presumably on the same rubber and he was also able to work his way up the field quite rapidly: I don't think the 22-inch wets gave Nuvolari and Stuck any advantage at all. In fact, I think the 18-inch were superior.

[taylov]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already in the context of the 1939 EC scoring system (I did a search and couldn't find it), but this method of scoring a season is alive and well and still used in the EuroBOSS championship.

For those outside of Europe who may not have come across it, EuroBOSS is a form of Formula Libre where 1990s Formula One cars (Benetton, Arrows, Ferrari, Minardi, Jordan, Simtek etc) race against Indycars, F3000, World Series etc, racing at Spa, Nurburgring, Zolder, Hockenheim and Jarama (Next Round Donington Park, August 30 and 31).

To be fair, it has to be noted that the Minimum Score method is not without some criticism from teams and fans on the EuroBOSS web forum.

After three events the top six in the championship are

1 Ingo Gerstl 3 3 4, 10 points

2 Joachim Ryschka 8 7 14, 29 points

3 Klaas Zwart 8 30 2, 40 points

4 Peter Milavec 9 22 11, 42 points

5 Jens Renstrup 10 17 19, 46 points

6 Carlos Tavares 23 10 16, 49 points


Tony

[fines]

I think the scoring is absolutely PERFECT for Historic Racing, which BOSS is apparently turning into (they still race the same cars as ten years ago, don't they?) - emphasis is on reliability, and aggressive fights for position are not encouraged.

[Racer.Demon]

Good spot, V2! Will be happy to accommodate any changes to the article...

[Vitesse2]

Quote

Originally posted by Vitesse2


Reuß says that AU took the decision to switch from 18-inch to 22-inch rims after the heat, which was run in dry conditions, as their smaller tyres had proved inadequate. But there is - AFAIK - no definite evidence that any of the Auto Unions was on dry tyres for the final. Therefore, Müller and Hasse almost certainly started on 18-inch wets.

Now, Reuß ignores Hasse completely when discussing the race - you'd almost think he wasn't there! But he was, and it was only after I'd looked at the race again that I realised that it was in fact Hasse who was the most aggressive of the AU drivers in the early stages. Despite starting from near the back, next to Müller on row 4, he passed Stuck and actually ran in sixth place behind the MBs, Farina's Alfetta and Nuvolari. So - he was initially outdriving all his team-mates: not an indication that he was on dry tyres I think. Müller was presumably on the same rubber and he was also able to work his way up the field quite rapidly: I don't think the 22-inch wets gave Nuvolari and Stuck any advantage at all. In fact, I think the 18-inch were superior.

I think I've solved this enigma. The race report in the Journal de Genève says the following:

Quote

Toutefois, Nuvolari sur la machine duquel, comme sur toutes les Auto Union d'ailleurs, on a monté des pneus ne s'adaptant à la piste sèche ....

So, if the tyres were not suitable for a dry track, this must surely mean that in the heat Auto Union gambled on rain arriving and started all their cars on wets! As the heat was only 20 laps and the final 30 laps, they probably felt that they could - if necessary - run the tyres in both without incurring too much wear.

The Journal de Genève report gives more detail than I've seen anywhere else about the GP car heat. Nuvolari was apparently slow away but quickly made his way up to third. He then slipped back down the field as his tyres started to go off - they seem to have delaminated, indicating that they were running too hot: another clue that they were wets? Stuck also had tyre problems and pitted for new rubber, the AU mechanics changing both rears in 15 seconds. Nuvolari had a tyre delaminate as he crossed the line!

So: contrary to Reuß' interpretation, Nuvolari and Stuck were not being favoured by being given 22-inch tyres. The team had no choice, because they'd used up almost all their 18-inch wets! It also puts a new light on why Müller just cruised round in the heat - AU claimed he had engine trouble, but I'd always found that difficult to reconcile with his performance in the final. He was saving his tyres ...

[Hans Etzrodt]

Vitesse2 said

...Unfortunately it was that same Jewish name that would prevent Dreyfus from ever having a chance to drive for Auto Union or Mercedes...

So - did he or didn't he get a test wirh Mercedes?

Richard - I never heard that Dreyfus would get a test with Mercedes. What made you think of this absurd possibility?

[Roger Clark]

Were these "wet" tyres that Vitesse2 refers to different in tread pattern or construction, or were they just a smaller diameter version of the larger tyres? It would make sense to use smaller tyres to reduce overall gearing if a race was to be run at a lower speed but I don't know whether Continental develop rain tyres in anything approaching the modern sense.

The development of racing tyres is terribly under-reported for such an important part of the car.

[Vitesse2]

Hans Etzrodt, on Oct 5 2011, 09:21, said:

Richard - I never heard that Dreyfus would get a test with Mercedes. What made you think of this absurd possibility?

With respect, Hans - I didn't remember ever saying that. And in fact, I didn't: it's a quote from Dennis David's site.

[Vitesse2]

Roger Clark, on Oct 5 2011, 10:05, said:

Were these "wet" tyres that Vitesse2 refers to different in tread pattern or construction, or were they just a smaller diameter version of the larger tyres? It would make sense to use smaller tyres to reduce overall gearing if a race was to be run at a lower speed but I don't know whether Continental develop rain tyres in anything approaching the modern sense.

The development of racing tyres is terribly under-reported for such an important part of the car.

I have seen something technical somewhere - in German - about 1930s racing tyres: in the Austrian AAZ IIRC.

[Doug Nye]

Vitesse2, on Oct 5 2011, 09:16, said:

I have seen something technical somewhere - in German - about 1930s racing tyres: in the Austrian AAZ IIRC.

The absolute priority for racing tyre construction in that period was carcass/tread security - to avoid explosive deflations and/or high-speed tread separation. Tyre preparation to channel away more surface water than the basic moulded tread pattern could handle involved a procedure that was known here in the UK, and I believe in Francophone nations, as the 'Pneu-Grippa' process. This involved large hairy blokes with bulging biceps attaching a curved framework to a section of the tyre, the framework supporting a number of lateral saw blades, spaced about a half-inch apart. All five or six saw blades were joined to a single handle. The large hairy bloke then sawed away with all five or six blades at once, opening a series of lateral cuts or sipes across the moulded tread. Once one section had been treated, the frame would be moved on to the next section of tyre, then the next, and so on until all 360-degrees of the tread circumference had been 'Pneu-Grippad'. I believe in Italy this was known as 'ancorizazzione' (or somesuch - I don't guarantee the spelling). I don't recall having seen photos or film of this wet-weather preparation being applied to the German cars' Continental tyres, but neither do I recall photos of differently treaded Conti 'wets' from pre-war, nor do I recall reading of specially dedicated wet-weather tyre compounding in that era.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 31 October 2011 - 23:44.

[Vitesse2]

Automobil Revue, 22/8/39, page 6:

Quote

Ausgerechnet in der Pause zwischen dem zweiten Vorlauf und dem Endlauf rieselt feiner Regen nieder und zwingt die Leiter der Rennställe, mit blitzartiger Behendigkeit ihrer Dispositionen auf Schlechtwetter umzustellen, Regenreifen aufzuziehen und die Einstellungen zu ändern.

My translation of that:

"During the break between the second preliminary heat and the final, fine rain trickles down and makes the leaders of the racing stables change with lightning agility to their arrangements for bad weather, fit rain tyres and change the settings."

Somehow I don't associate Don Alfredo with "lightning agility" , but the meaning is clear - as is the reference to "Regenreifen".

[Doug Nye]

This photograph was taken just after the finish of the 1938 Swiss GP, showing what passed for a 'wet' Continental tyre on Caracciola's winning Mercedes-Benz W154. As evident here, it has been subjected to the 'Pneu-Grippa' process, with extra lateral sipes cut into the tread as I described previously. I would be confident that the 1939 'wet' tyre would have been similarly prepared.



Here for comparison is a standard Conti 'dry' tyre from 1938-39. Note the shoulder sipes on the 'dry' do not extend laterally right across the tread. On the 'wet' - top, above - they have been cut clean across.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 13 December 2011 - 15:49.

[Vitesse2]

Thank you, Doug.

Just to be clear, I wasn't doubting you: my opinion is that because Stuck and Nuvolari (and possibly Müller?) had encountered tyre problems late in the heat that was the reason AU switched to 22-inch for the final. However, if - as seems probable - Conti had little or no warning of this, it seems unlikely they would have had enough 22-inch wheels pre-fitted with both dry and wet-pattern tyres: realistically AU would need at least 24 of each - 16 plus two spares per car. The race reports seem to indicate that the tyres were changed on the grid - were Conti suddenly overwhelmed, meaning they just didn't have enough Pneu-grippaed 22-inch to go round? "Sorry, Herr Doktor Feuereissen - we must give priority to Mercedes, so we can only let you have enough 22s for two cars: if you still want cut tyres you must fit the others with 18s ..."

[Doug Nye]

My posting these pix wasn't at all triggered by any defensive reflex, simply interest in an interesting question accompanied by chance location of relevant evidence. I would be surprised if Conti had in fact been taken by surprise by the weather change, but my gut feeling is that you could indeed well be correct...and that maybe they had attempted to ride their luck, and dibbed out. If nothing else the fitters responsible for hand cutting all those darned tyres would certainly have developed a rosy glow...

DCN

[Vitesse2]

73 years to the day after the final race of the 1939 European Championship, an article about the Mercedes Benz W154 appeared on Daimler's Global Media website. I believe this is the first time that Daimler have made a public acknowledgement that Lang was not officially declared champion by the AIACR.

Quote

In 1939, the last season of racing before the Second World War, Mercedes-Benz was able to build further on the successes of the previous year with the W 154. The first race of the season was the Pau Grand Prix, which Hermann Lang won in a W 154 ahead of Manfred von Brauchitsch, so taking his revenge for the defeat of the previous year. In addition, Lang took the chequered flag at the Eifel race in May of the same year, with Caracciola in third place and von Brauchitsch in fourth.

Second World War prevents Caracciola from taking fourth European Championship title

Hermann Lang continued to build on this impressive series of victories. He won the Höhenstrassen-Rennen (High Road Race) in Vienna in a hillclimb version of the W 154 (with von Brauchitsch in 3rd place), a result replicated at the Belgian Grand Prix in Spa. Caracciola then won the German Grand Prix at the Nürburgring – for the fifth time. The Swiss Grand Prix was won by Lang ahead of Caracciola and von Brauchitsch. Lang also won the German Hillclimb Grand Prix on the Grossglockner pass, thereby securing the 1939 German Hillclimb title. He was clearly the season’s top driver, but with the outbreak of war the authorities responsible, the AIACR in Paris, were unable to award the title of European Champion.

The bolded sub-heading also leads me to believe that they may have some evidence that either Neubauer or Hühnlein intended that Caracciola was the preferred champion ...

Here's the original in German:

Quote

1939, in der letzten Rennsaison vor dem Zweiten Weltkrieg, knüpft Mercedes-Benz mit dem W 154 an die Erfolge des Vorjahres an. Das erste Rennen der Saison ist der Große Preis von Pau, den Hermann Lang auf W 154 vor Manfred von Brauchitsch für sich entscheidet und sich so für die Niederlage im vergangenen Jahr revanchieren kann. Auch beim Eifelrennen im Mai kommt Lang als erster Fahrer ins Ziel, Caracciola wird Dritter, von Brauchitsch Vierter.

Der Zweite Weltkrieg verhindert Carraciolas vierten Europameistertitel

Hermann Lang führt diese eindrucksvolle Siegesserie weiter. Beim Wiener Höhenstraßen-Rennen holt er sich den Sieg im W 154 Bergrennwagen (von Brauchitsch 3.), die Platzierung wiederholen die beiden Piloten auch beim Großen Preis von Belgien in Spa. Caracciola gewinnt – zum fünften Mal – den Großen Preis von Deutschland auf dem Nürburgring. Beim Grand Prix der Schweiz kommt Lang vor Caracciola und von Brauchitsch ins Ziel. Er gewinnt auch das Rennen um den Großen Bergpreis von Deutschland am Großglockner und wird dadurch Deutscher Bergmeister 1939. Er ist eindeutig der beste Fahrer des Jahres, aber den Titel eines Europameisters kann die zuständige Behörde, die AIACR in Paris, nach Kriegsausbruch nicht mehr vergeben.

http://media.daimler...S=1347062011697

[ensign14]

Vitesse2, on Sep 8 2012, 01:21, said:

The bolded sub-heading also leads me to believe that they may have some evidence that either Neubauer or Hühnlein intended that Caracciola was the preferred champion...

They probably had champagne for the end of year celebration (perhaps courtesy of Herr von Ribbentrop's contacts in the trade). Rather than beer. Wouldn't want to waste champers on the proletariat.

[ReWind]

Vitesse2, on Sep 8 2012, 02:21, said:

Quote

Second World War prevents Caracciola from taking fourth European Championship title

The bolded sub-heading also leads me to believe that they may have some evidence that either Neubauer or Hühnlein intended that Caracciola was the preferred champion ...

But isn't it rubbish to claim that the war prevented Caracciola from taking a fourth European title? His retirements from the Belgian and French Grands Prix long ago had put paid to any hopes he and others may have had.

[Vitesse2]

ReWind, on Sep 8 2012, 16:30, said:

But isn't it rubbish to claim that the war prevented Caracciola from taking a fourth European title? His retirements from the Belgian and French Grands Prix long ago had put paid to any hopes he and others may have had.

What strikes me as very odd is the fact that the bolded bit bears absolutely no resemblance to the text around it. You'd expect the text to explain the headline, wouldn't you? The most important thing which prevented Caracciola claiming a fourth title was actually that he hadn't won it! If anything, it should say "Second World War prevents Lang from taking first European Championship title".

But in one sense, it's not rubbish at all. Under Mercedes-Benz's preferred system (Langlois' proposal), a win for Caracciola in Berne would have given him the championship, with Lang third. Unless Müller finished second in the race of course. And why else would he have chased Lang down so hard at the end of the race? Hence my comment.

Under the minimum points system - yes he was pretty much irrelevant, unless Müller failed to finish fourth or better. Even then - a long shot, even if he won the race.

[Ray Bell]

Quote

Originally posted by Vitesse2
What strikes me as very odd is the fact that the bolded bit bears absolutely no resemblance to the text around it. You'd expect the text to explain the headline, wouldn't you?

.....If anything, it should say "Second World War prevents Lang from taking first European Championship title".....

It's almost as if it's some kind of Freudian slip, isn't it?

[Vitesse2]

Ren� de Boer, on 11 Aug 2008 - 13:37, said:

In Eberhard Reuß' book "Hitlers Rennschlachten", it is mentioned that after the preliminary races, rain set in and Auto Union didn't have sufficient 22 inch rain tyres available from Continental. Therefore, it was decided that only Stuck and Nuvolari would run the final race with rain tyres. About Müller's result in the race, the book reads: "Behind the leading trio of Mercedes drivers Lang-Caracciola-Brauchitsch, Müller has made his way up into fourth place. Although he had made an involuntary 360 degree pirouette at the start on the rain-soaked cobble stones and lost a lot of time as a result."

So, are the tyres on Stuck's #8 car bigger than those on the other two? They're certainly all cut - presumably with a Pneugrippa, which I have since discovered was originally developed by Tecalemit as a way of prolonging the life of lorry tyres. Herr Dietrich of Conti looks somewhat concerned ...

 

[Nick Savage]

If the brake-drums on each car are a standard size, then the wheels on the number 8 car do not look a larger diameter .... but I am not a Silver Arrows expert, so I am probably wrong ...

Nick

[Vitesse2]

David McKinney, on 24 Sept 2001 - 21:21, said:

Hans, Michael, Don:
I know it's a while since I made my promise, but I have finally managed to get hold of the report from the Portuguese journal O Volante No.483, 15 August 1939. Apologies for the delay: it was a matter of waiting till my German source returned to Lisbon for his holiday!

The report reads as follows:

Muller encontra-se á frente do Campeonato Europeu dos Condutorres

Em Outubro último, a Comissão Sportiva Internacional, resolveu manter o campionato europeu dos condutores, baseadó na classificação por pontos, e para o qual contariam os Grandes Prémios da Bélgica, da França, da Alemanha, da Suissa e da Itália. O delegado belga sugeriu então que a maneira de classificação fôsse modificada. Tendo-se juntado ultimamente em Reims, quando da realização do Grande Prémio francês, os delegados dos automóveis clubs interessados, foi resolvido adopta para o campionato europeu a fórmula do campionato francês dos condutores, isto é: em cada prova serão atríbuidos 10 pontos ao 1ª, 6 ao 2ª, 5 ao 3ª, 4 ao 4ª, 3 ao 5º e um ponto a todos os outros classificados on que tenham partido.
Como duas provas se haviam realizado, os Grandes Prémios da Bélgica e da França, a classificação do campeonoato europeu estava ultimamente assim estabelecida:
Lang e Muller, ex-aequo com 11 pontos; Meier e Sommer, ex-aequo com 7 pontos; von Brauchitsch e Hasse, ex-aequo com 6; Le Bégue, com 5; Etancelin, 4; Mazaud, 3; Carraciola e Nuvolari, ex-aequo com 2; Stuck, Farina, Gérard, Dreyfus, Mays, Raph, Matra, Chinetti, Mandirola cada um dêstes com 1 ponto
* * *
Depois da disputa do Grande Prémio de Alamanha, terceira prova que contava para o campeonato, a classificação ficou sendo: Muller, 17 pontos, Lang e Caracciola, 12; Meir e Sommer, 8; von Brauchitsch e Hasse, 7.
Ao vencedor será coferida a medalha de ouro da Associação Internacional.


A translation might be:

Muller takes the lead in the European Drivers’ Championship

Last October, the International Sporting Commission decided to
keep the European drivers’ championship points system, with
the Grands Prix of Belgium, France,
Germany, Switzerland and Italy to count. The Belgian delegate then
suggested that the system be modified. Meeting in Reims, for the running of the French
GP, the delegates of the interested automobile clubs decided
to adopt for the European championship the formula of
the French drivers’ championship, that is: in each round 10
points will be given to the winner, 6 to 2nd, 5 to 3rd, 4 to 4th, 3 to 5th
and a point to all others classified. As
two rounds had been completed, the GPs of Belgium and
France, the order of the European Championship was
established thus: Lang and Muller, equal with 11 points; Meier and
Sommer, equal with 7 points; von Brauchitsch and Hasse,
equal with 6; Le Bégue, with 5; Etancelin, 4; Mazaud, 3;
Carraciola and Nuvolari, 2 each; Stuck, Farina, Gérard,
Dreyfus, Mays, Raph, Matra, Chinetti, Mandirola each with
1 point
* * *
After the running of the German GP, third
round of the championship, the order was:
Muller, 17 points; Lang and Caracciola, 12; Meir and Sommer, 8; von
Brauchitsch and Hasse, 7.
The International Association will confer a gold medal on the winner

And - seventeen years on - I have finally tracked down the source of this.

 

It's a paraphrase of a piece which appeared in l'Auto on July 13th 1939 under the headline ‘Un Championnat d’Europe calqué sur celui des conducteurs français’ (A European Championship modelled on that of the French drivers), with an update taking into account the German GP scores.

 

A more honest headline writer would of course have added a question mark, but when you start researching in l'Auto it doesn't take you long to realise that absolutely everything had to be - whenever possible - pour la gloire de la France! Added to which, whoever translated it into Portuguese has turned the original 'asked them to adopt for the European Championship the system used for the French drivers’ championship' into 'decided to adopt for the European championship the formula of the French drivers’ championship'. Probably because of the absence of that question mark ...

[DCapps]

From something that I was trying to write that ended up somehow taking a look at 1939... HDC

 

However, the dogs of war were unleashed in early September of 1939 and the racing season came to an abrupt close. A scheduled meeting of the CSI in October apparently never took place and any discussion of the future was deferred. Nor did the CSI officially announce who the European Champion was for 1939. Even to this day there is some confusion and many questions concerning this championship. Using the scoring system employed in the previous championships, the champion should have been H.P. (Hermann Paul) Müller, a member of the Auto-Union team. However, in December 1939 Korpsführer Adolf Hühnlein, the head of both the NSKK (Nationalsozialistisches Kraftfahrkorps, the National Socialist Drivers Organization) and the ONS (Oberste Nationale Sportbehörde or roughly the National Sporting Authority) declared that Hermann Lang was the 1939 European Champion. 

 

Or, perhaps, something like that. 

 

Other than the minor problem that Korpsführer Adolf Hühnlein had absolutely no authority from the CSI to make such a decision, much less an announcement to that effect, the problem is that it is Lang who has passed down through the years as the champion for that season. Complicating things even more, there are indications that the CSI was perhaps considering a change in the scoring system for 1939. Worse, there is some evidence that even as late as the Swiss Grand Prix in August that there was clearly some confusion over the scoring and the standings. To add insult to injury, when the CSI met after the Second World War, it did nothing to clarify this situation. That the decision concerned which of two German drivers would get the nod obviously played a significant part in this lack of urgency to resolve the issue.

 

I have come to think that we might have been looking at this without taking into account that it is quite possible that Hühnlein did something quite different, something that was misinterpreted or at least misunderstood by Lang and, as a result, the rest of us. First, I think that it is clear that the European Champion for 1939 was Müller. Second, we need to give consideration to the Deutsches Motorsportabzeichen, or German Motor Sport Badge.[1] This award was instituted on 18 February 1938, with the basic criteria being to reward German drivers for being successful in both national and international competition. 

 

Apparently, the original criteria for the award was somewhat vague, with recognition for speed records, endurance contests, and so forth being implied. On 1 November 1938, however, NSKK-Korpsführer Hühnlein established a criteria for the award that was based upon a points system. Unfortunately, that points system is not known. The points system allocated points on an annual basis for the award of the badge. The badge was awarded as follows:

 

Badge in Eisen (Iron), or 3rd Stufe (Class): 50 points

Badge in Silber (Silver), or 2nd Stufe (Class): 100 points

Badge in Gold, or 1st Stufe (Class): 150 points

 

The examples given by Angolia are 12 points being awarded for first place in an international event, while eight points would be awarded for a first place finish in a national event. The first awards of the Deutsches Motorsportabzeichen were made on 18 February 1939, a year after its institution. The awards were for the 1938 season and as follows:

 

1st Stufe, Gold: Two. The recipients were NSKK-Staffelführer (Major) Rudolf Caracciola and Bernd Rosemeyer.

2nd Stufe, Silber: Four.

3rd Stufe: Eisen: 23.

 

Angolia does not mention the number of awards for the 1939 season, made in 1940, but the awards for that 1940 season were made on 20 April 1941, with only one award in silver presented and none in gold. In all, according to Angolia, here are what are thought to be the totals made of the Deutsches Motorsportabzeichen:

 

1st Stufe, Gold: 91.

2nd Stufe, Silber: 93.

3rd Stufe, Eisen: 314.

 

This would suggest that there were quite a few awards of the Deutsches Motorsportabzeichen being made for the 1939 season. This also suggests that there might be far more to this than I initially anticipated, given what would appear to be a bonanza of awards for the 1939 season. Either there is a problem with the number of awards presented or perhaps there were possibly retroactive awards, although this latter seems to be a remote one. At any rate, I think that Lang was designated as the German national champion by NSKK-Korpsführer Hühnlein and this somehow morphed into Lang being the European champion. The answer to all of this relating to the Deutsches Motorsportabzeichen is probably out there somewhere, lurking in the archives or in boxes in someone’s closet.

 

Other than this, I really do not have any other information on the award.

[1] LTC John R. Angolia, For Führer and Fatherland: Political & Civil Awards of the Third Reich, 2nd Edition (R. James Bender Publishing, 1989), 246-247.

[Tim Murray]

Is there any explanation given for how Rosemeyer was awarded a 1st Stufe for 1938?

[Vitesse2]

Tim Murray, on 13 Feb 2024 - 02:31, said:

Is there any explanation given for how Rosemeyer was awarded a 1st Stufe for 1938?

The scoring of the first set of awards - announced in June 1938 - was retrospective, covering the recipients' entire previous careers, even going back to before the NSDAP came to power on January 30th 1933. As indicated above, the scoring method was complicated - points for achievements on four wheels and two wheels differed - and a further set of scores were added in 1939, covering purely 'military' events organised by the NSKK, although drivers in these could only count events from January 1939 onwards. Most of the iron badges awarded in 1940 - and all the 1941 ones - were for these.

 

The idea was that they would be cumulative, with recipients receiving first their iron badge and then 'graduating' to silver and gold as their careers progressed. I have a copy of the full explanation of the points system, which was published in the programme for the 1939 Höhenstraßenrennen.

 

At the point where the awards for 1938 and 1939 were announced, Lang had not achieved the requisite number of points for a gold award. Both Lang and Müller received their gold medals at the ceremony in 1940.

 

The differing statements by Lang in the wartime and post-WW2 editions of his autobiography have added to the confusion, but there are also at least two official Mercedes Benz publications dating to 1940 which say he was European Champion for 1939. Not to mention some snippets in the press in some of the occupied countries ...

[Michael Ferner]

There is no doubt whatsoever that Hühnlein refered to the European Championship(s) in his statement, which is clear enough and was reported in several press outlets.

 

Also, I think we have more than conclusive evidence that the scoring method was up for review by the AIACR in 1939, the only bit lacking is the final decision about which scoring to use (which may never have been taken). Thus, I still maintain that the only thing that's clear is that the 1938 scoring was not continued, and thus any references to Müller winning the tile based on the (definitely abolished) 1938 scoring is disingenuous.

[Vitesse2]

Michael Ferner, on 13 Feb 2024 - 10:03, said:

There is no doubt whatsoever that Hühnlein refered to the European Championship(s) in his statement, which is clear enough and was reported in several press outlets.

 

Also, I think we have more than conclusive evidence that the scoring method was up for review by the AIACR in 1939, the only bit lacking is the final decision about which scoring to use (which may never have been taken). Thus, I still maintain that the only thing that's clear is that the 1938 scoring was not continued, and thus any references to Müller winning the tile based on the (definitely abolished) 1938 scoring is disingenuous.

The decision as to which scoring method would be applied was to be made at the October CSI meeting in Paris, which was cancelled. However, I'd be interested to see your source that the older scoring system had been 'definitely abolished', Michael.

 

After an ad hoc meeting of some of the members of the Finance Committee of the AIACR in Paris in early February 1940, an annual congress was arranged for May 10th-13th in Berne. [ETA] La Stampa, reporting this, specifically noted that the subject of the European Championship would be on the table for discussion.

 

The CSI meeting was scheduled for 10.00am on May 13th 1940 at the Bellevue Palace Hotel, the matters for their consideration including a number of rule changes, the readmission of Spain to international motor sport, the Formule Internationale for 1941-43 and the European Championship for 1939. The Wehrmacht invasion of the Low Countries, commencing on May 10th, meant that the planned programme for all the AIACR's meetings was severely curtailed. Two other commissions - Traffic & Tourism and Customs - were also scheduled to meet and did actually do so, even though their Presidents were not present; the suspicion must be that in view of current events those were very short meetings.

 

Only one CSI member - Giuseppe Furmanik of Italy - was in attendance, so its meeting was cancelled. The General Committee and General Assembly were also scheduled to meet on the 13th, but both were brought forward to Sunday May 12th - originally a purely 'social day' - and took place in the morning. The few delegates who had attended had the opportunity to take a coach trip around the Bernese Oberland in the afternoon. It was resolved (conditions permitting) to hold the next AIACR meeting in October 1940, with Madrid as a proposed venue.

 

Sources: Automobil Revue, La Stampa and l'Auto.

[Michael Ferner]

Vitesse2, on 13 Feb 2024 - 11:15, said:

The decision as to which scoring method would be applied was to be made at the October CSI meeting in Paris, which was cancelled. However, I'd be interested to see your source that the older scoring system had been 'definitely abolished', Michael.

 

It's in the same sentence of yours, for example: if the scoring method was to be decided in October, the old one was no longer in effect. Simple logic. 

[Vitesse2]

But what if they'd rejected - or decided to further modify - the proposed new system? When it was drawn up, the assumption was that there would be six rounds in the championship - and Langlois had already been compelled to redefine 'domination' after Monaco was cancelled.

 

Originally, to be awarded the title, the champion had been expected to achieve 33.3% of the 60 points available for wins – or 20.8% of the 96 points available for first and second places. Although Langlois had apparently widened the calculation to take in first and second places, requiring the champion to score 16 points from 80 (20%), he would now also be required to win only 20% of the races – hardly the 'domination' specified. And that's before you take into account the fact that the Italian race didn't happen either.

 

The proposed scoring system is fine with six or more events counting, but becomes less tenable with every cancellation.

 

Lang of course won 50% of the four completed races, but is this another reason Caracciola was pressing him so hard at the end in Switzerland? If Caracciola had won the Swiss GP then he would have had 'domination', with a 50% win record and - under the proposed points system - would also have been European Champion on 22 points, with Müller on 21 and Lang on 18.

[uechtel]

Two separate threads of argumentation I think.

First, the Nazi 'leadership principle' in their self-understanding did not require to regard to any rulings. Or better to say, rulings were changeable at any time if it appeared useful just by the power to be able to do so. If for Hühnlein it "felt" wrong to declare Müller as champion then he could easily find pseudo-objective reasons to decide for Lang. There could never happen a public debate whether this was correct or not.

Second, from the AIACR point of view, if the modalities of awarding the title were to be settled at some CSI meeting, that never took place, to me it the logical consequence is, that it is wrong to regard Müller as European Champion and therefore the title must be regarded as 'vacant'.

Edited by uechtel, 14 February 2024 - 23:26.

[Michael Ferner]

There is no evidence whatsoever that Müller won the title - as pointed out before, the only thing we know for sure is that the 1938 scoring was no longer effective. The whole Müller 'controversy' was started as recently as the mid eighties, by Paul Sheldon in an ill-advised attempt to 'set the record straight', but he was starting from false premises (paraphrasing "... if the point scoring rules were as before..." which we now know was not the case), and nothing since has been added to further that claim. Müller himself declared in the fifties to have finished runner-up in listing his racing achievements *, so he was not aware of any perceived 'injustice' done to him, but it's apparently hard to kill that feeling amongst those who continue to perpetuate that legend. That, and - shock, horror - a certified Nazi "who had no authority to do so" ** declaring Lang as Champion! We can't have that, can we?

 

It's high time to lay this rotten egg to rest. Yes, the Nazis generally did not adhere to rules, but (as has often been pointed out in other cases) criminals often show an unusually high regard to rules when taking part in sports, so it's not entirely inconceivable that Hühnlein possessed inside information that we are still lacking, and the lack of interest of anyone else with that same information to decide which Nazi was going to claim that title (and it was abundantly clear that only a Nazi was in a position to win, certainly not Hartmann László  ) is enough for me to accept that no one challenged or questioned the Hühnlein statement. It may not be nice, but it's probably the best we are going to get - for me, Lang is the Champion, albeit it with a VERY LARGE asterisk (now that is the lingo today, isn't it?  )

 

 

*  

 

** I don't think that, say, Murray Walker had any "authority" to declare, for example, Damon Hill as World Champion, yet nobody appears to have a problem with that

Edited by Michael Ferner, 14 February 2024 - 15:17.

[Michael Ferner]