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Life is racing, the rest is waiting
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Auto Unions
Started by
Dennis David
, Nov 13 1999 05:44
16 replies to this topic
#1
Dennis David
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Posted 13 November 1999 - 05:44
As many of you know Audi(Volkswagen) is making a big marketing push to build up their sales. They won me over, I've got my eyes on a new Audi S6 Twin-Turbo sedan. Well they've spent $$$ rebuilding some of their Silver Arrows and I was lucky enough to see them run. Here are a couple of pictures from Laguna Seca.
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Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
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#2
bira
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Posted 13 November 1999 - 06:17
hard to tell at first glance what is a painting and what is a photo. Great pics, DD.
#3
Don Capps
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Posted 13 November 1999 - 09:29
I keep looking the TT and... sigh...
I am often amazed that so much attention was lavished on the Mercedes cars of that era, yet the AU's are so much more interesting. Although it got lost in the shuffle, TWO Euro Champs used the AU to win the title - Rosemeyer in 1936 & Muller in 1939.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
I am often amazed that so much attention was lavished on the Mercedes cars of that era, yet the AU's are so much more interesting. Although it got lost in the shuffle, TWO Euro Champs used the AU to win the title - Rosemeyer in 1936 & Muller in 1939.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#4
Uncle Davy
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Posted 13 November 1999 - 09:58
Beautiful pictures, Dennis.
Don, I agree with you about the Auto Union being a more interesting car than the contemporaneous Mercedes. Seeing photos and film of a wiry, almost frail Tazio Nuvolari behind the wheel of one of these elegant beasts has always struck me as an eloquent summation of the struggle and beauty of motorsports. Uh oh...getting a bit florid here.
BTW, I also lust after the TT...not in fiscal 1999's budget, I'm afraid.
Don, I agree with you about the Auto Union being a more interesting car than the contemporaneous Mercedes. Seeing photos and film of a wiry, almost frail Tazio Nuvolari behind the wheel of one of these elegant beasts has always struck me as an eloquent summation of the struggle and beauty of motorsports. Uh oh...getting a bit florid here.
BTW, I also lust after the TT...not in fiscal 1999's budget, I'm afraid.
#5
Dennis David
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Posted 13 November 1999 - 12:26
Don - I keep telling you Lang won the title! ;-)
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
#6
Lamont
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Posted 13 November 1999 - 13:18
DD, thanks for those wonderful pics. I know almost nothing about these cars, looking forward to learning more about them and other historical tidbits via this forum.
And Don, I share your lust for the TT. It's one of few cars that when I first saw it, I declared "I MUST HAVE THAT CAR!".
And Don, I share your lust for the TT. It's one of few cars that when I first saw it, I declared "I MUST HAVE THAT CAR!".
#7
Dennis David
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Posted 13 November 1999 - 14:06
Audi TT on the streets of Salzburg.
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
#8
Don Capps
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Posted 15 November 1999 - 09:20
DD, You have the Kirchberg book correct?
A friend in the SF area sent me the three installments of that Norman Smith (Case History) had in the early days of Autosport (30 Nov., 7 & 14 Dec. 1951).
Really good stuff, much better than I expected. Maybe someday I can sit down and finally do the telaio and race data on these cars.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
A friend in the SF area sent me the three installments of that Norman Smith (Case History) had in the early days of Autosport (30 Nov., 7 & 14 Dec. 1951).
Really good stuff, much better than I expected. Maybe someday I can sit down and finally do the telaio and race data on these cars.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#9
Dennis David
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Posted 15 November 1999 - 09:31
What Kirchberg book is that?
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
#10
Don Capps
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Posted 15 November 1999 - 12:14
Grand-Prix-Report Auto Union 1934-1939
This is the only AU book from which I have managed to find telaio information as a matter of fact.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
This is the only AU book from which I have managed to find telaio information as a matter of fact.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#11
Dennis David
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Posted 15 November 1999 - 12:23
No I don't have that one. Yet!
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
#12
Dennis David
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Posted 15 November 1999 - 12:43
BTW the Italian through me for a second. I'm better with the Fahrgestell datum. ;-)
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
#13
Don Capps
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Posted 20 November 1999 - 00:02
Last night Speedvision did a show on the Auto Unions that was pretty good, especially with dear ol' Alain de Cadenet as the host. I was familiar with most of it, of course, but was interested in how my son would react to it. He watched most of it until Dad was overruled and She Who Must Be Obeyed said Bubba had to hit the rack. Now. No discussion, and I don't care about what is on the Tube.
Overall, it was pretty impressive. Bubbsie couldn't get over how narrow the tracks were, especially at Pescara. He was just amazed. In truth, so am I every time I watch films like that. Just being a backmarker required being one tough hombre.
If it comes on again soon, try to catch it. Good stuff.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 11-19-1999).]
Overall, it was pretty impressive. Bubbsie couldn't get over how narrow the tracks were, especially at Pescara. He was just amazed. In truth, so am I every time I watch films like that. Just being a backmarker required being one tough hombre.
If it comes on again soon, try to catch it. Good stuff.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 11-19-1999).]
#14
Tony Kaye
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Posted 07 August 2000 - 21:04
I saw the recreated Auto Unions at Essen last year. Apart from the bare chassis at the Science (?) museum in Munich, this was the first time I'd ever seen the 'genuine' article fully clothed. Now, I'd been brought up on the Auto Union legend, so this should have been a memorable experience.
Well it was - I was disappointed. The cars themselves were magnificent, to my eyes really beautiful shapes. The workmanship was absolutely perfect. So what was wrong?
The body finish. In my mind I had always thought of Auto Unions as painted or sprayed in silver aluminum with a somewhat matt finish. Like their (genuine) opposition in the Mercedes museum. But the Auto Unions were in some kind of pearlescent silver like a really top class hot rod or a manufacturer's concept car. The paint had the appearance of being a quarter of an inch thick. That's why they look so great in the photos.
Now this is great for publicising Audi, which is precisely why the cars were created, but I just don't think it's historically correct. No doubt I'm carping, and I'd prefer to have them with the wrong paint than not at all. The trouble is that all future generations who see these cars will think that that's what they looked like in their heyday.
Or am I completely wrong and they weren't painted in aluminum finish?
Well it was - I was disappointed. The cars themselves were magnificent, to my eyes really beautiful shapes. The workmanship was absolutely perfect. So what was wrong?
The body finish. In my mind I had always thought of Auto Unions as painted or sprayed in silver aluminum with a somewhat matt finish. Like their (genuine) opposition in the Mercedes museum. But the Auto Unions were in some kind of pearlescent silver like a really top class hot rod or a manufacturer's concept car. The paint had the appearance of being a quarter of an inch thick. That's why they look so great in the photos.
Now this is great for publicising Audi, which is precisely why the cars were created, but I just don't think it's historically correct. No doubt I'm carping, and I'd prefer to have them with the wrong paint than not at all. The trouble is that all future generations who see these cars will think that that's what they looked like in their heyday.
Or am I completely wrong and they weren't painted in aluminum finish?
#15
Eric McLoughlin
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Posted 07 August 2000 - 21:55
Even though I'm usually a stickler for historic accuracy, the fact that these cars exist at all is amazing and once you've seen and heard them in action, minor things like paintwork pale into insignificance. The sight of Emanuelle Pirro performing a 360 doughnut at Goodwood in the hill climb car was truly spectacular (he'd overshot the entrance to the paddock and spun the car around to go back up the hill).
#16
Hans Etzrodt
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Posted 08 August 2000 - 06:45
Tony,
I agree with you that the paint job is historically incorrect. It must be disappointing to see the Auto Unions in the hot rod color. It takes away excitement when you stand next to the car, because you know it is not authentic. Probably one of the Audi sales big shots made this poor decision and I bet you there are other people at Audi who are not excited about this modern paint job.
When I visited the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart, I was very disappointed to see the 1939 3-liter V-12 GP car with the disfiguring 1951 nose, as raced in Buenos Aires. This is how the car is nowadays presented at the antique races and I find it appalling. Why not change the radiator and the nose back to 1939 specification? The car would look much better from the front. The W125 from 1937 is equally very disappointing because the fairings around the rear suspension are not the authentic rounded ones, which gave the car a meaner more aggressive appearance. The car looks best from the left rear. I wondered why Daimler-Benz could not do a better job with these old GP cars. To keep on griping, the 1935, 1936 and 1938 GP cars are missing and stored away somewhere else not for public consumption.
I agree with you that the paint job is historically incorrect. It must be disappointing to see the Auto Unions in the hot rod color. It takes away excitement when you stand next to the car, because you know it is not authentic. Probably one of the Audi sales big shots made this poor decision and I bet you there are other people at Audi who are not excited about this modern paint job.
When I visited the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart, I was very disappointed to see the 1939 3-liter V-12 GP car with the disfiguring 1951 nose, as raced in Buenos Aires. This is how the car is nowadays presented at the antique races and I find it appalling. Why not change the radiator and the nose back to 1939 specification? The car would look much better from the front. The W125 from 1937 is equally very disappointing because the fairings around the rear suspension are not the authentic rounded ones, which gave the car a meaner more aggressive appearance. The car looks best from the left rear. I wondered why Daimler-Benz could not do a better job with these old GP cars. To keep on griping, the 1935, 1936 and 1938 GP cars are missing and stored away somewhere else not for public consumption.
#17
Michael M
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Posted 08 August 2000 - 07:53
Tony, I fully agree with you!
Much historic racing cars today are restored to such a high standard, they never left the original workshop in such a condition. Okay, the Auto-Unions are showpieces, but why to such an extent?
Hans, sorry, but no agreement to your W154 comments. It is part of history that the W154 was entered in the Buenos Aires race in 1951, and it has been stored away by DB exactly in the condition of its last official appearance. To bring it back to 1939 specification in my eyes would be historically not correct. As far I know all 1938 chassis had been converted to 1939 specs, so it is unlikely that one is still existing. On the other side, I mentioned already in another thread that DB's secret cellar is much bigger than most of us would expect ...., so who knows?
The W125 has been used still in 1938 and 1939 for hill climbs, so it may well be that the rear suspension fairings result from this period. If so, I think it is correct to show the car in the shape of its last competition appearance.
Much historic racing cars today are restored to such a high standard, they never left the original workshop in such a condition. Okay, the Auto-Unions are showpieces, but why to such an extent?
Hans, sorry, but no agreement to your W154 comments. It is part of history that the W154 was entered in the Buenos Aires race in 1951, and it has been stored away by DB exactly in the condition of its last official appearance. To bring it back to 1939 specification in my eyes would be historically not correct. As far I know all 1938 chassis had been converted to 1939 specs, so it is unlikely that one is still existing. On the other side, I mentioned already in another thread that DB's secret cellar is much bigger than most of us would expect ...., so who knows?
The W125 has been used still in 1938 and 1939 for hill climbs, so it may well be that the rear suspension fairings result from this period. If so, I think it is correct to show the car in the shape of its last competition appearance.
