58 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

Here I go again...

I have just won this 43rd scale kit on Ebay - France.



The thing is, it is advertised as a Maserati Tipo 64. I Googled to see if I could find any colour photos of the real car, but inserting Maserati Tipo 64 only got me 12 images and none of the cars looked like this one.

Have I, in fact, got something different to what is listed?

[Gerr]

Pic on this page:
http://www.classicdr...00.asp?id=12201

Coachwork by Scaglione

[Barry Boor]

Aaaah! Excellent, Gerr, thank you.

So, it ran in 1962 in the Targa Florio. I wonder if it ran anywhere else.

[Barry Boor]

Realising that this was a 1962 car, I have discovered that it ran at Sebring #30 - retired early and was entered at Le Mans but did not run.

[dretceterini]

The site is not up yet, but....

http://scuderiasssre...adivenezia.com/

[teegeefla]

Barry-

check these out:

http://www.serenissimaautomobili.com/

also check posts 42 and 43 on this site:

http://www.ferrarich...?t=83991&page=3

[Barry Boor]

Thanks for those links, chaps.

When the model is made, I'll post a piccy.

[Barry Boor]

It has just dawned on me that I am very confused about the difference between Scuderia VENEZIA and Scuderia SERENISSIMA. I thought they were 2 different outfits but I am finding the same flag on both badges.

I ask because I have to make the badges for the above-mentioned model and while I have some Scuderia SSS Republica di Venezia badges, I don't know if the ones on the Tipo 64 were those or an almost identical looking badge but with Serenissima on it instead of Venezia.

Can someone please explain the difference and tell me what should be on the Maserati?

[David McKinney]

The official name for Venice is (was?) the Serenissima Republica di Venezia
Scuderia Venezia and Scuderia Serenissima were therefore the same animal
(I forget what the other initials in "Scuderia SSS Republica di Venezia" stand for, but I'm sure someone can help us out)

[starlet]

SereniSSima

[WINO]

Repubblica

WINO

[Barry Boor]

So does this mean that cars entered by Venezia never ran in the same race as any entered by Serenissima?

[WINO]

They didn't. In 1961 it was still Scuderia Serenissima, by 1962 it had changed to SSS Repubblica di Venezia, as Volpi intended to build his own cars as Serenissimas. This meant his team consisting of other people's cars [Ferraris, Maseratis, etc] got a different name. Keep your Repubblica sticker for the Tipo 64.


WINO

[Barry Boor]

Will do!

[WINO]

Do use the 1962 Targa Florio race number rather than the Sebring one. At Sebring the nose looked very different. Your model is based on the car after the factory tried to solve persistent overheating problems. Not that it was any more successful in Sicily, though.

WINO

[Ray Bell]

Now I'm wondering, of course...

Where will the Targa course fit? Across the yard, into the bedroom window, out in the front garden, back to the garage... Barry... do you have enough track sections for the whole 44 miles?

[Barry Boor]

Oh, Ray, mate, you are getting confused here.

This is all about a 43rd scale model, not a slot car. It's part of the Boor diecast sports car model collection: http://62.149.36.46/...n/diecasts.html

WINO - the numbers that come with the kit are the Targa Florio numbers; it just has no badges included.

[Ray Bell]

Okay, Barry... I'll stop fretting about your future again...

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Barry Boor

This is all about a 43rd scale model, not a slot car. It's part of the Boor diecast sports car model collection: http://62.149.36.46/...n/diecasts.html

]

Hullo Barry. I've come across your webpage and marvellous collection before - just did not realise it was a TNFer (and the email address doesn't say anything about barry boor).

I have a much smaller collection that began out of a (mercilessly short-lived) interest in restoring old Dinky Toys a couple of winters ago when it was too cold to go sailing. I've added some Quartzo, Brum and others, as well as repainted a couple of Dinkys in more accurate colours. For reasons too boring to go into here, the 1955 Dundrod TT has recently become my Mastermind Specialist Subject. I'd really like a decent 1/43rd scale model of Moss's 300slr (which was in fact 300 - 004, the Mille Miglia car put back into single-seater configuration, which he then drove in the Targa Florio with Peter Collins). I see you have a 1/43rd scale of the car in Le Mans configuration, presumably with air brake (not used at Dundrod or in Sicily). Do you think that Brumm model, if I can find one, could be modified to change the numbers and hide the air brake? Or have you ever seen a 1/43rd scale model of the Targa Florio car? I have a 1/8th scale Maisto of the Targa Florio car which is really nice - so nice in fact that I am loathe to mess with it to try and change the numbers.

BTW - I have the 1954 Moss version of the Quartzo D-type that you have, numbered for Hamilton and Rolt. No doubt you have realised that what Quartzo have done is simply re-number and re-issue the (otherwise very nice) model of the 1955 Hawthorn/ Bueb car, (and, in fairness, changed the windscreen to 1954 design). Unfortunately, using the same base model means we both have long-nose D-types (not introduced until '55) masquerading as 1954 cars, which were short-nose. I am one of those ******* who thought (and think) the short-nose D-type a more iconic shape than the long-nose, but I have never found - other than Dinky, which hardly counts - an affordable 1/43rd scale model. Have you?

Currently I have not one but four(!) of the Dinky. One is my original 1950s toy, one is already restored and repainted in Ecurie Ecosse blue and the other two are works-in-progress. Sad, or what?

[Barry Boor]

Mal - watch for a personal message in the next day or so.

[D-Type]

I think Brumm have modelled the Targa 300SLR as well as the MM and LeMans cars.

Brumm have also done a renge of D-Types - short and long nose and short without the fin (in my opinion the best looking). You can find details and pictures of Brumm models quite easily on the web - Brumm used to have their catalogue on their website but it was very slow.

[Barry Boor]

Mal, click on....

http://cgi.ebay.it/B...2QQcmdZViewItem

[Mal9444]

Thanks all round. I shall browse the Brumm catalogue. Am I the only person who thinks Brumm to be the crudest of the 1/43rd scales available? But as another TNFer remarked in another thread - what does one expect for that price.

Barry - I shall look out for the message

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

SMTS have modelled the Targa cars . they could well feature in the Bizzare range in the future .

[Mal9444]

Edward - thank you

[Barry Boor]

Edward, what makes you think that? Is there some connection between SMTS and Bizarre?

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

No connection , just watching the Bizzare releases , they are ploughing thru the 50s , coming soon in the Spark range will be a JPS motorhome .

[Barry Boor]

Model finished....

Please bear in mind that it not only the relative lack of ability of the person who assembled the kit (me) that makes it look quite basic but also John Day Models were well known for being rather crude and lacking detail. I rest my case...



As a fellow collector said just a hour or so ago, at least I have a model that will likely never be produced by a model manufacturer.

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Model finished....

Please bear in mind that it not only the relative lack of ability of the person who assembled the kit (me) that makes it look quite basic but also John Day Models were well known for being rather crude and lacking detail. I rest my case...



As a fellow collector said just a hour or so ago, at least I have a model that will likely never be produced by a model manufacturer.

Well - I think it's very good. Presumably the kit came without the headlamp covers?

[Barry Boor]

Certainly did, Mal. But then, if you look at the picture in one of the above links, it seems that it ran just like this at the '62 Targa Florio.

[dretceterini]

John Day's stuff was pretty bad, but the did do a lot of cars no one else has ever done....

[Barry Boor]

Yes, that's exactly the point.

I have a 1962 F.1 Cooper (not yet made) of which I suspect John Day's was the only version and I have just missed (Ebay of course) a 1964 BRP BRM and a 1963 ATS in the last year or so.

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Certainly did, Mal. But then, if you look at the picture in one of the above links, it seems that it ran just like this at the '62 Targa Florio.

100% accurate, then.

BTW - I am currently having TERRIBLE trouble with PayPal - just cannot get a sensible answer out of them to help me solve what should be a simple glitchette that stops me using their system to pay for eBay purchases. So much so I am seriously thinking of starting a new thread - unless there is one already, somewhere?

[dretceterini]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Yes, that's exactly the point.

I have a 1962 F.1 Cooper (not yet made) of which I suspect John Day's was the only version and I have just missed (Ebay of course) a 1964 BRP BRM and a 1963 ATS in the last year or so.

I believe the ATS was Mikansue, which was actually made by JD for tehir shop. There is a new ATS model that has just come out. Check at GPM. Not sure about the BRP/BRM or the '62 Cooper..

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Mal9444
.....BTW - I am currently having TERRIBLE trouble with PayPal - just cannot get a sensible answer out of them to help me solve what should be a simple glitchette that stops me using their system to pay for eBay purchases. So much so I am seriously thinking of starting a new thread - unless there is one already, somewhere?

Me too... and young Ben, my nephew with the Dodge...

Apparently they let you spend up to $1000 initially, but then they require extra proof of your identity. The procedure is simple, but probably not well explained.

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Me too... and young Ben, my nephew with the Dodge...

Apparently they let you spend up to $1000 initially, but then they require extra proof of your identity. The procedure is simple, but probably not well explained.

Yes - you then need to verify your account, using your Expanded Use Number. Snag is - this (at least in my case) is a number they send to your credit card company to go on your statement. If you do not know this is happening, you miss it. They send it only once, and will not send it again (blaming the credit card compnay for not allowing them to, of course). 18 months later (in my case) the system requires this number. PayPal will not re-issue it, their automated on-line verification system goes into an iterative loop from which there is no escape and no further way forward, and trying to email them produces only bland pro-forma answers that do not address the specific question. To add insult to injury, each email answer is prefaced by a message that says

'Thanks for contacting PayPal's Customer Support. I realise that this situation can be frustrating, and appreciate the opportunity to help you resolve this issue regarding expanded use number.'

EVERY TIME!

Frustrating is hardly the word for it.

Do we need a seperate thread for TNFers having PayPal problems? Seems to be plenty of us who use eBay.

[Barry Boor]

Not really in the spirit of TNF I fear, Mal.

I suggest it is probably more appropriate on The Paddock Club.

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Not really in the spirit of TNF I fear, Mal.

I suggest it is probably more appropriate on The Paddock Club.

Ooooohh. Never dared go in there. Who are they?

[Barry Boor]

Well, not like us, in the main. There are some very strange people over there, but a few friendly 'faces'; (Condor, Vitesse, Ross....)

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Well, not like us, in the main. There are some very strange people over there, but a few friendly 'faces'; (Condor, Vitesse, Ross....)

Thanks. I'll maybe take a wander over and peak inside. Now, let me see... hat, scarf, dark glasses. Will I need me balaclava?

[Barry Boor]

Oh yes - and as extra security, wear it back to front!

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Oh yes - and as extra security, wear it back to front!

Always do, mate - always do.

Just been there and been refused entry.

Maybe they don't welcome people from TNF who are wearing their balaclavas back to front. But to paraphrase Groucho Marx...

[Barry Boor]

Rather than begin a 95th! Maserati thread.... as this is another Maserati model conundrum, I thought it best to put it on here.

I am just putting together a page on my Images/Models website showing my 43rd scale single-seater cars. One of them purports to being a Maserati 250.F V.12. No problem there, except that the car is numbered 46. Thus far I have had no luck in pinning this car with this number to any particular race.



I know many TNEffers know many things that I don't so can anyone fix this car/number/driver to a real race, please?

Incidentally, I have at last updated the Index page of the site to include news of the excellent Andrew Kitson painting that we had done for Peter Connew's 60th birthday.

http://62.149.36.46/~bruce/cgi-bin/

I also added a brief word about the fate of my Connew model.

[D-Type]

Jean Behra practised a 3.5 litre V12 at the 1957 Race of Two Worlds - no idea of the number though. However, one website says it used Hallibrand rear wheels and Firestone tyres which rules this one out. (Unless it's a Brumm model)

Maglioli started the 1956 Italian race in #46 and handed over to Behra who retired it. Behra drove a V12 in the 1957 race. Has somebody got their races mixed up? (Brumm are perfectly capable of doing that - even with Maseratis)

David McKinney's book gives the only appearances of the V12 as Syracusa, Monaco, Rouen, Pescara, Modena, Morocco in practice and Reims and Monza in a race.

And your final possibility is historic racing.

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Rather than begin a 95th! Maserati thread.... as this is another Maserati model conundrum, I thought it best to put it on here.

I am just putting together a page on my Images/Models website showing my 43rd scale single-seater cars. One of them purports to being a Maserati 250.F V.12. No problem there, except that the car is numbered 46. Thus far I have had no luck in pinning this car with this number to any particular race.



I know many TNEffers know many things that I don't so can anyone fix this car/number/driver to a real race, please?

Incidentally, I have at last updated the Index page of the site to include news of the excellent Andrew Kitson painting that we had done for Peter Connew's 60th birthday.

http://62.149.36.46/~bruce/cgi-bin/

I also added a brief word about the fate of my Connew model.

Barry - as a matter of interest, did you buy, or build, this model?

Also, and BTW: several of us have discussed on related threads the paucity of 1:43rd scale short-nose D-types. Only SMTS, so far as I am aware, do an accurate one - and that is OKV2 with a fin, in Rheims-winning mode (number 12) althoug they have just done one for me with number 20 (Moss, Dundrod 1954). For my 1955 Dundrod collection (growing very slowly) I want OKV2 without a fin. As an experiment, I have taken a spare Dinky D-type, stripped off the paint and dismantled it, filed off the fin and repainted it Jaguar BRG and am rather pleased with the result. The Dinky casting permits of complete fin removal to leave just the fairing. The (slow) project has a way to go, but I'll post a pic when complete. As ever and always, the problem will be getting good number plates with the correct number (in this case, 2). Still working on a solution. Asking you to do the numbers and send them them to me is too much like cheating - but I may resort to taking up your kind offer in the end.

[Barrie Hobkirk]

Barry,

Nice Models.

Your Brumm 250F V-12 model was raced in basically the configuration as you have it by Carlos Menditeguy in the 1957 Reims GP, 14th of July. The large number 46 in those locations, same short nose, twin nostril intakes, and short stubby twin exhausts both sides exiting ahead of the rear wheels in megaphones. Only minor deviation errors are the T-2 'headrest' style fuel tank where the real car had a plain rounded T-1 type and your multitude of louvres whereas the real car had four large wire mesh covered openings. But heck, who's counting rivets and louvres???

Cheers,
Barrie

[T54]

I am lazy, so I get them all finished up:









All 1/32 scale by MMK and all running sweetly on my Carrera track...

[Graham Gauld]

Harry Schell tested the V12 250F in the week running up to the Modena GP of 1957. I was there and my understanding at the time was that he was checking it out so that when Fangio arrived on the Thursday he would make a final decision as to whether he would race the V12 or a six cylinder in the race. However, on the way down he had his celebrated accident in his Lancia and arrived with his right wrist all bandaged up and the V12 neither practiced nor raced.

[Barry Boor]

As several people have guessed, this is a Brumm model. To be fair to them, their catalogue does not attribute this model to any particular race; it is simply listed as PROVA.

Barrie, thank you for that information - clearly I need to change the numbers to 32. I can live with the louvres and rivets.

We know that Brumm are not THE most efficient when it comes to accuracy but there are very, very few manufacturers producing single seater cars from that era - Quartzo being the only other one (if you don't count Corgi and Dinky!) and I believe Quartzo have folded too.....

[D-Type]

Barry,
Why not stick with no 46? After all Barrie says that it did race with that number in the non-championship Reims GP.

I believe that Quartzo/Vitesse have been reincarnated as IXO. Someone told me that the bankruptcy was a means of escaping from various 'Portuguese origin' obligations when Macau ceased to be legally part of Portugal.

Barrie,
While you're about can you say what you think the the Dinky Maserati represents? See this thread for the arguments for a 4CLT and an A6GCM or other A6G variant.