15 replies to this topic

[Don Capps]

As someone who would usually pick open-heart surgery with a dull steak knife on the kitchen table than pick to watch ANY awards show; nor do I take ANY "sports awards" - Best Driver/ Athlete/ Substitute/ Player-Under-1.8-meters-Who-Always-Attended-Practice-and-Even-Scored-Points-Despite-Having-a-Traumatic-Childhood-or-a-Serious-Lack-of-Talent of the Millenium/ Century/ Decade/ Year/ Hour/ Nanoecond in the past several decades with any seriousness. They are meaningless and senseless and just silly.

The last awards show of any sort that I actually watched was the 1992 NASCAR Awards Banquet. That was the year Alan Kulwicki won the Championship. It was worth watching, even if they laid on the "I Did It My Way," too thick and embarrassed Kulwicki with some of the silliness.

Over on The Main Forum, I caught this from a thread on awards about a response to Robin Miller's thoughts on the DoY going to Dale Jarrett.

The writer is Dave Argabright and this from his column on Speedvision:

One of the joys of racing in years past was that fans and media identified with and respected each other, regardless of the series one chose to follow. We were racers first; then, NASCAR fans or Indy Car fans or late model fans.

Today, though, I see more and more people who choose a series and pound their chest to proclaim that everything else is marginalized.

Then again, maybe none of this matters any more. Maybe the NASCAR PR juggernaut is so strong that it won't stop until we all have a 24 or 3 or 88 in the back window of our car.

Just remember something: In sport, performance ought to be recognized. Not just popularity.

Interesting how much F1 and NASCAR are alike in many ways. Plus, how true about the fans in the various branches of motor racing narrowing their interest to only a single series and slagging all the others. I don't think this is going to change anytime soon.

I am one of those who is a race fan first and then sorts it all out. I am both weary and wary of F1 and NASCAR telling me that I have to love, they are the best and so on and on. Adding having to endure the chest pounding of F1, NASCAR, etc., for another season or the aforementioned surgery, the surgery looked good to start with and gets better every moment....

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps



[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 12-06-1999).]

[Dr.DeDion]

I'll pencil you in for mid-January, Don.I warn you that for delicate operations of this nature I generally eschew rusty knives in favor of a mallet and pickle-fork...

[Fast One]

Don--

You are my shining example and I wish I could be more like you, that's for sure. I came over here trying to avoid the scuffles on the "other side", but I peek over there just like you do, and there's too much Earl of Warwick in me not to comment sometime...

I love almost all road racing, some more than others for sure. The tube frame Trans-Am kit cars don't do it for me like the originals did, but I'll still watch. And the drivers can STILL drive! I used to even tolerate ovals fairly well, finding them an interesting variation on the racing theme. One of the things I liked most about CART was the incredible variety of tracks, second only to the WRC for running the gamut. I even watched the occasional NASCAR race.

I find it difficult not to react when certain folks chant the NASCAR mantra like drones, sneaking in the insults about road racing at every opportunity. This I find exasperating. I have been doing better the last few days. I actually read your calm comments when I find myself ready to react now.

I guess what I don't understand is this: it would never occur to me to go to a NASCAR websight and crow on and on about F1 at the expense of what they like. I am willing to live and let live. But tell me, my guru, why they feel compelled to follow us into our dens banging their tambourines and handing out their pamphlets (so to speak)? Is there no place we can retire in peace to talk among ourselves of Carracciols vs. Lang, of Moss vs. Fangio, even of Hakkinen vs. Schumacher, without hearing the belch followed by the inevitable, "That ain't nothin'. Did y'all ever hear about Dick Trickle?"

To steal a line from Jefferson Davis, "All we want is to be left alone."



[This message has been edited by Fast One (edited 12-07-1999).]

[Don Capps]

Grashopper, I mean FO,

If I have a truly glaring Fault among my many faults, it is that I am generally fascinated by most things historical and enjoy digging into things and figuring them out in ways that are usually a bit out of the box.

I have my books by Greg Fielden, Dick Wallen, Denis Jenkinson, Hans Tanner, George Monkhouse, Chris Nixon, Doug Nye, and so on and so forth all in the same the book cases and read them all. I am generally a prisoner of the past, however, and both eclectic and eccentric in my tastes.

I don't like the current state of racing pretty much across the board. Initially, I thought that this was a tad unfair and I was missing the point, that the fault lay within me. One of the books I used when I taught was entitled: The Good Old Days: They Were Terible! I was afraid I was not being fair and placing the Past into a context that simply was ahistorical or that I was playing one of those temporal displacement games that historians often trip themselves up with as they practice a form of chrono-objectivity derived from the Marxist use of objectivity in the sciences.

The Past ain't what it used to be, but it does beat the present in some ways: I know how the story ends...

So, Grasshopper, perhaps the way of tolerance and moderation is the best way. Even if I know more about Dick Trickle than he or she will ever know, I listen and nod and extend my warm wishes for a pleasant visit. Perhaps this is a fault, but I was raised to be inclusive and not exclusive in hiw I live.

I find myself more at ease over here than over in either of the two main fora - not a criticism, just an observation. I tipped over into the Dark Side and I do not intend for that to happen again.

Grasshopper, keep that in mind. This forum is big enough to discuss those racers you mentioned, plus a few others to boot.

The world is not a simple place.



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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

[Don Capps]

Grasshopper,

Another thought: Better to have them here and interested than somewhere else and not aware of other things that are happening -- or in our case, that happened.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

[Fast One]

Master Po--

Your words are wise and I will try to take them to heart. I especially like your comments on drivers rankings in the GV thread. I too live much of the time in the past, medieval Arthurian literature, the American Civil War, ancient cultures, etc. My wife complains that it leaves too little time for the present! I also like to take out my teeth (figuratively!) and cluck on about the good old days, even though I know in my heart they are mostly just old.

And while I would always welcome anyone of any background to join in, I guess I would prefer they check their preaching at the door. It is always better to preach to the converted; it makes for a more agreeable neighborhood! The NASCAR obsession in this country has passed all bounds of reason and has become zealotry. That's okay with me, because no one makes me go to that stuff, or watch it on TV. But can they not at least allow us beleagered road racers our little cavern beneath the streets, where we can huddle in the candlelight, passing on stories of the great Nuvolari, and hoping for a brighter day in the future. Must they follow us down there chanting The Gospel According to Bill France? Can we have no peace to argue amongst ourselves?!

I will attempt to heed your wise words, oh master. But if the Warwick in me emerges on occasion, please prod me gently back on the path of wisdom.

Grasshopper

[Don Capps]

Grasshopper,

As someone who struggles daily with that insideous disease that ruins the lives of untold millions and millions, Hawkeye Pearce Syndrone, I try to keep silent even when I am bursting with things to say.

Notice how certain threads with away on their own when no one takes the bait. Also note that even those we consider fools and dolts are often wiser than we realize. We may not agree with their wisdom, but it is often worth the few minutes to consider.

In this weeks Rear View Mirror I stick my toe into a subject that is concerned with the ecology of a system that achieved a balance in which evolution was absorbed without threatening the whole system. Then an outside force intervened and forever altered the ecosystem within which the people lived. In retrospect, the Law of Unintended Consequences may be the only true law in racing that can stand next The True Law of Racing: Cubic Money Beats Cubic Anything Else.

Ponder wisely.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

[cjs f1]

Do you think the reason why today's fans tend to ally themselves with only one series is because, most drivers in respective series today only concentrate on one form of racing and nothing else?
Unlike the past when every professional driver would compete in as many forms of racing there was.
That's probably one of the reasons.

[Fast One]

Yes, that crossing over got me interested in alot of other racing as a teenager (other than F1) and taught me to appreciate that there were some pretty fast guys out there that were not driving for the world championship. A Formula 1 driver in the '60s might well drive in Can-Am, the Tasmin Series, endurance racing, and Indianapolis, as well as the occasional odd race, like Riverside , where there was an open weekend.
Dan Gurney, A.J. Foyt and others raced VW Beetles at the Nasau Speek Week in the mid-60s. If I remember right, Dan actually pushed A.J. across the line for the win!

Now few drivers ever leave their own little niche, and their fans might stay there too. Pity, because a lot of talent was discovered in minor races, where some local boy would manage to hang onto Jim Clark's bumper and not be shaken loose. That would be his big break. I loved seeing my F1 heros booming around in those big Cheveys and Fords in the Can-Am! I also liked noticing who did well against them.

So maybe you are right, the strong lines of demarcation between series lead to acrimony and chest thumping among fans.

[Don Capps]

That it were not so, but it is. The elimination by the FIA of virtually everything but F1 has not been a good thing. F3000 suffers, as did F2 before it, because it excluded "graded" drivers. Sounds good in practice fails in reality for the very reason you stated: if Billy Bob dogs Mika and Michael in the F3000 race at Podunka, people take notice...

Hate to mention N*SC*R, but the strength of BGN has been that it provides a yardstick for up & coming drivers. It really isn't there any more in F1. FF or F3 straight to F1.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

[Martin]

I'm not sure I want to reply to this thread but I'd quite like to read it.
Why has it gone all wide? I can't be doing with scrolling constantly from side to side.
Is it just me, and why just this thread? The rest seem ok.
Sorry to interrupt you chaps
Cheers
Martin

[Dennis David]

Martin - I think that it is just you.

Guys - Just got back from Seattle. I agree I'm also a racing fan and will watch just about anything. While I have certain preferences I don't let those get in the way of my enjoyment. It's like eating, sometimes I want Italian, other times Chinese or Mexican. If I like Chinese food should that cause me to hate Mexican food? Of course not.

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Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Don Capps]

DD, excellent analogy!

Somehow the notion that while you might prefer something to another it doesn't mean that you don't like it has gotten lost in the shuffle.

Why is it so difficult these days for folks to accept that while the preference might be steak/ tuna/ veggies, etc. (CART/ F1/ NASCAR/ etc.), it doesn't mean that you don't derive enjoyment from the others. I simply could not, cannot, and will not subsist on just one form of racing. Period.

I personally like the variety offered by the different series. The Law of Diminishing Utility is definitely true on my case. Were I forced to focus on just a single series, I would outta here and back doing serious work in history rather than indulging myself.

I simply can't see placing one series on a pedestal to the exclusion to all the rest. I seem to spend an inordinate amount of time justifying being inclusive and tolerant which is always a bad sign that the Apocalypse Is Upon Us. It find it perfectly normal to like Jeff Gordon, Ralf Schmacher, Jimmy Vasser, Eddie Cheever, John Force, Mick Doohan, and so forth and try to keep up with how they're going. I used to enjoy some of the "Lesser Formulae" simply because they were more fun: then again I would -- since my family discovered the joys of minor league baseball we haven't been to a Major League game more than a handful of times since then.

While F1 and NASCAR are booming, it has been at a cost. I see the point where eventually it is just NASCAR and F1 as the Major League racing series with everything else definitely the Minors. We are already moving to where sports cars are a niche sport.

Things will get more troubling in the next few years. The entire history of Grand Prix racing has already been given the swipe of wand by the revisionists: all the non-WDC events in F1 or the GP formula don't exist! And in NASCAR, all that prior to the takeover by Winston in 1972 is in a special "back then" limbo.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

[cjs f1]

Don Capps,

You are exactly right in saying that
the smaller formulas of racing should let the
top drivers to compete. Not only will this
generate more spectator interest, but it will
also provide a means to compare the
abilities of some unknown drivers, to more
established ones, just like the Nascar Busch
Series.

And from what I understand, this method was
how Gilles Villeneuve was discovered.

[Don Capps]

Gilles Villeneuve came from that famous producer of Grand Prix drivers, Formula Atlantic! He was noticed at the annual Trois Riviers (sp) bash where Atlantic stars competed against some of those from The Big Show. Interestingly enough, Keke Rosberg and Bobby Rahal came from the same series at the same time.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

[arttidesco]

Having just watched a Quadruple Crown Memorial Weekend of Racing on TV spanning the Nationwide Series, Turkish GP, Indy 500 and first half of the Coca Cola 600 before I crashed out with around 200 laps to go at 2am, I am with Don Capps I love it all, each form of racing has it's own points of interest, special requirements and tests of strength and resolve. It's not a question of one form being better than another it's about each having it's own place in the world. Why settle for one series when you can enjoy them all ?