A different thread to "the Greatest F1 Battles / Overtaking". This one focuses on the drive itself. Perhaps how a driver drove from last position (!) to win a race. Or How a driver drove in a shitty car to win a race. What about driving in the wet on dry tyres? Also - perhaps how a driver demolished his competition through superb driving. Perhaps I should mention that winning is not a necessity, just splendid drives.
I'll start off with one first:
+ Damon Hill (Hungary 97)
Damon was driving for Arrows in 97 after being sacked by Williams even though he won the 96 WDC. The Arrows for most of the year was a pretty bad car which frequently retired (something like the 99 BAR only better). Anyway, Hill qualified quite well for the race. However he drove the race of his life by overtaking Schumi and Jacques Villeneuve in far better cars. After getting past the two championship contenders Hill raced into the distance. Only a problem with the car one lap from the end robbed Hill of a certain victory.
The greatest F1 drives
Started by
The Fazz
, Dec 08 1999 13:32
22 replies to this topic
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#2
Steve
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Posted 09 December 1999 - 09:40
I've got three with Senna: Portugal 85, Donnington 93 and Monaco 84 with Bellof. All are brilliant.
Much earlier though, Fangio at the Nurburgring in 57, his last and greatest win. After being a minute behind the leading Ferrari's after a BAD pit stop he caught them and won, breaking his lap record from the previous year by over 24 seconds!!
Nouvalari in 33(or 34?) at the Nurburgring. Against the all mighty Mercedes and AU's he battled for 4 hours after dropping minutes back by lap 9. He reeled them in eventually and gained 45 seconds on the final lap to take the win. In my mind the best drive ever.
Stewart at a wet and foggy Nurburgring in 68. He won by nearly 4 minutes!
Much earlier though, Fangio at the Nurburgring in 57, his last and greatest win. After being a minute behind the leading Ferrari's after a BAD pit stop he caught them and won, breaking his lap record from the previous year by over 24 seconds!!
Nouvalari in 33(or 34?) at the Nurburgring. Against the all mighty Mercedes and AU's he battled for 4 hours after dropping minutes back by lap 9. He reeled them in eventually and gained 45 seconds on the final lap to take the win. In my mind the best drive ever.
Stewart at a wet and foggy Nurburgring in 68. He won by nearly 4 minutes!
#3
John B
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Posted 09 December 1999 - 09:54
I liked G Villeneuve's back-to backer wins at Monaco and Spain, 1981, especially given that the car was, shall we say, less than perfect. They were examples of exceptional driving and making the most out the equipment and opportunities.
Another interesting aspect of those races was that, although Gilles was known for driving on and beyond the limit, it was Piquet and Jones, both WDCs, who made mistakes while at the front.
Prost in South Africa 1982, winning from a lap down, was great too. This was a little before pit stop strategy was perfected (Prost blew everyone away on his new tires after replacing a puncture).
Another interesting aspect of those races was that, although Gilles was known for driving on and beyond the limit, it was Piquet and Jones, both WDCs, who made mistakes while at the front.
Prost in South Africa 1982, winning from a lap down, was great too. This was a little before pit stop strategy was perfected (Prost blew everyone away on his new tires after replacing a puncture).
#4
Indian Chief
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Posted 09 December 1999 - 10:25
Schumacher - Nurbrurgring '95.
He reeled in Alesi from a 43 second gap and pulled of a superb pass around the outside of the chicane with just 2 laps left.
Hakkinen - Nurburgring '98
He held MS off for lap after lap with just 0.5 seconds separating them.
He reeled in Alesi from a 43 second gap and pulled of a superb pass around the outside of the chicane with just 2 laps left.
Hakkinen - Nurburgring '98
He held MS off for lap after lap with just 0.5 seconds separating them.
#5
Don Capps
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Posted 09 December 1999 - 11:41
Steve, it was 1935 in a Scuderia Ferrari entered Alfa Romeo Tipo B (chassis 50005) that Tazio Nuvolari pulled off the upset of the Germans. There is an article on that race on the Dennis David GP site.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#6
Ian McKean
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Posted 12 December 1999 - 00:23
I would like to suggest Graham Hill's drive at the 1960 British Grand Prix at Silverstone.
I can't remember exactly why, but he was late getting away. Clutch or gearbox maybe. I think he lost about 30 seconds quite apart from being in last place. The BRM of that year was not the cat's whiskers, (I don't think he was on the front row or even the second and it was 4-3-4.. not 2-2-2 in those days). But he caught and passed the entire field. Unfortunately his brakes were fading away by the end and with Brabham closing in Hill tried to lap a backmarker before a corner but went off.
I might think of a few more great drives later!
Ian McKean
I can't remember exactly why, but he was late getting away. Clutch or gearbox maybe. I think he lost about 30 seconds quite apart from being in last place. The BRM of that year was not the cat's whiskers, (I don't think he was on the front row or even the second and it was 4-3-4.. not 2-2-2 in those days). But he caught and passed the entire field. Unfortunately his brakes were fading away by the end and with Brabham closing in Hill tried to lap a backmarker before a corner but went off.
I might think of a few more great drives later!
Ian McKean
#7
Dennis David
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Posted 12 December 1999 - 03:51
I find this a most difficult report to write. If I use the superlatives justified by the staggering racing we witnessed in the 40th Grand Prix de France this afternoon, a certain exaggeration might be suspected. But it can go on record that Mike Hawthorn's magnificent victory by one second over the champion Fangio crowned a neck-and-neck, wheel-to-wheel duel for the last half of the race, with four seconds between 2nd and 3rd, and 3.2 seconds between 3rd and 4th, and gave the shouting spectators what is probably the finest Grand Prix ever run anywhere at any time, with what amounted to two dead heats in lightning succession.
The young British driver stood for the British National Anthem with tears of emotion running down his cheeks, while the crowd audibly gasped with amazement when he took off his helmet and they saw his obvious youth after a drive in which he matched even the champion on the circuit, with courage, speed and race craft.
The lap record went seven times-twice by Gonzales at just under 114 mph, once by Villoresi, once by Ascari, once by Farina, and twice by Fangio, who left it at 11.5.91 mph in his supreme effort to pass Hawthorn and stay in front. The race average started at 111. 9 mph and steadily went up to 113.65 at the finish, a variation of 1.75 mph.
In practice, Ascari's Ferrari made best time in 2 min. 41.2 sec. (115.83 mph), with Gonzales second in 2 min. 41.5 sec. On this circuit the Ferraris found a little more speed to match the Maseratis. Ascari and Farina had modified radiators and oil radiators on their cars.
Four Ferraris - Ascari, Farina, Villoresi, Hawthorn - faced five Maseratis - Fangio, Gonzales, Marimon, Bonetto and de Graffenried. The Gordinis had little part to play, and the British cars were outclassed on the circuit.
Gonzales cunningly started with half a tank full of fuel to save weight and add speed; he shot into the lead, followed by Ascari, Bonetto, Villoresi, Hawthorn, and led for 29 of 60 laps. Bonetto overdid a corner, and dropped back, and at 20 laps the order was Gonzales, crouching lower than ever, and already leading by 19 sec., Hawthorn, Ascari, Villoresi, Farina and Fangio. The three leading Ferraris raced in arrowhead formation, not two lengths apart, but changing their order lap after lap. At 21 laps Fangio slammed past Farina in fifth place and was in among the Ferraris. All six were racing almost in line fractions of a second apart, a desperate affair where one false move meant disaster. Five seconds covered the five cars - and on lap 26 Fangio passed Villoresi into 3rd place.
On lap 29 he passed Ascari into 2nd place, only 20 seconds behind Gonzales, and Gonzales dashed in for another half-tankful of fuel. Fangio was tanked like the Ferraris to run nonstop. Gonzales' stop was of only 27 seconds, and in that brief period he was passed by five cars.
At 30 laps, halfway, the order was Fangio, Hawthorn, Ascari, Farina, Marimon, Gonzales, Villoresi, and well behind, Bonetto, de Graffenried, Behra and the rest, most of them already lapped more than once. The first three were all racing wheel-to-wheel and nose-to-tail, lap after lap, one second covering all three.
Then began the last half of this amazing race. Hawthorn and Fangio put up a demonstration, which took the breath away. Never more than one second apart, they spent most of their time racing abreast not more than two feet apart. Once Hawthorn used the grass, overtaking a slow car, to give Fangio room to stay alongside a courtesy not lost on the crowd. On laps 32, 33, 34 Hawthorn was in front perhaps a hood length.
On laps 35, 36 it was Fangio, then Hawthorn again for two laps, Fangio for two laps, Hawthorn for four laps - and so they raced side by side, now one, now the other, half a length in front.
The other cars were dropping out behind this battle of giants. Villoresi, with a rueful grin, moved out of it in the last few laps, stabbing his fingers at the fliers and shaking his head comically as he overtook Peter Collins.
I shall not attempt to describe the final laps. The whole thing was fantastic. The crowd was yelling, the commentators were screaming. Nobody paid much attention to the rest of the drivers at all, and the drivers themselves slowed up to watch this staggering display.
From laps 54 to 58 Fangio led by a length, but both cars raced side by side, Hawthorn giving a corner after the pits each time, but, I suspect, carefully rehearsing his final spurt each time he drew level on the finishing straight. On lap 59 he did it, flashing past and holding his cornering, and on the final lap again they shot round nose-to-tail, and it was the Englishman who brought the Ferrari over the line. As Fangio flashed past, a second later, Gonzales almost caught him with Ascari a moment away; his rear wheels level with Gonzales' tail.
Hawthorn's ovation was like the roar one hears at the end of a great maestro's concert - and today Hawthorn was a maestro.
The French Grand Prix of 1953
by Rodney Walkerley
The young British driver stood for the British National Anthem with tears of emotion running down his cheeks, while the crowd audibly gasped with amazement when he took off his helmet and they saw his obvious youth after a drive in which he matched even the champion on the circuit, with courage, speed and race craft.
The lap record went seven times-twice by Gonzales at just under 114 mph, once by Villoresi, once by Ascari, once by Farina, and twice by Fangio, who left it at 11.5.91 mph in his supreme effort to pass Hawthorn and stay in front. The race average started at 111. 9 mph and steadily went up to 113.65 at the finish, a variation of 1.75 mph.
In practice, Ascari's Ferrari made best time in 2 min. 41.2 sec. (115.83 mph), with Gonzales second in 2 min. 41.5 sec. On this circuit the Ferraris found a little more speed to match the Maseratis. Ascari and Farina had modified radiators and oil radiators on their cars.
Four Ferraris - Ascari, Farina, Villoresi, Hawthorn - faced five Maseratis - Fangio, Gonzales, Marimon, Bonetto and de Graffenried. The Gordinis had little part to play, and the British cars were outclassed on the circuit.
Gonzales cunningly started with half a tank full of fuel to save weight and add speed; he shot into the lead, followed by Ascari, Bonetto, Villoresi, Hawthorn, and led for 29 of 60 laps. Bonetto overdid a corner, and dropped back, and at 20 laps the order was Gonzales, crouching lower than ever, and already leading by 19 sec., Hawthorn, Ascari, Villoresi, Farina and Fangio. The three leading Ferraris raced in arrowhead formation, not two lengths apart, but changing their order lap after lap. At 21 laps Fangio slammed past Farina in fifth place and was in among the Ferraris. All six were racing almost in line fractions of a second apart, a desperate affair where one false move meant disaster. Five seconds covered the five cars - and on lap 26 Fangio passed Villoresi into 3rd place.
On lap 29 he passed Ascari into 2nd place, only 20 seconds behind Gonzales, and Gonzales dashed in for another half-tankful of fuel. Fangio was tanked like the Ferraris to run nonstop. Gonzales' stop was of only 27 seconds, and in that brief period he was passed by five cars.
At 30 laps, halfway, the order was Fangio, Hawthorn, Ascari, Farina, Marimon, Gonzales, Villoresi, and well behind, Bonetto, de Graffenried, Behra and the rest, most of them already lapped more than once. The first three were all racing wheel-to-wheel and nose-to-tail, lap after lap, one second covering all three.
Then began the last half of this amazing race. Hawthorn and Fangio put up a demonstration, which took the breath away. Never more than one second apart, they spent most of their time racing abreast not more than two feet apart. Once Hawthorn used the grass, overtaking a slow car, to give Fangio room to stay alongside a courtesy not lost on the crowd. On laps 32, 33, 34 Hawthorn was in front perhaps a hood length.
On laps 35, 36 it was Fangio, then Hawthorn again for two laps, Fangio for two laps, Hawthorn for four laps - and so they raced side by side, now one, now the other, half a length in front.
The other cars were dropping out behind this battle of giants. Villoresi, with a rueful grin, moved out of it in the last few laps, stabbing his fingers at the fliers and shaking his head comically as he overtook Peter Collins.
I shall not attempt to describe the final laps. The whole thing was fantastic. The crowd was yelling, the commentators were screaming. Nobody paid much attention to the rest of the drivers at all, and the drivers themselves slowed up to watch this staggering display.
From laps 54 to 58 Fangio led by a length, but both cars raced side by side, Hawthorn giving a corner after the pits each time, but, I suspect, carefully rehearsing his final spurt each time he drew level on the finishing straight. On lap 59 he did it, flashing past and holding his cornering, and on the final lap again they shot round nose-to-tail, and it was the Englishman who brought the Ferrari over the line. As Fangio flashed past, a second later, Gonzales almost caught him with Ascari a moment away; his rear wheels level with Gonzales' tail.
Hawthorn's ovation was like the roar one hears at the end of a great maestro's concert - and today Hawthorn was a maestro.
The French Grand Prix of 1953
by Rodney Walkerley
#8
Uncle Davy
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Posted 12 December 1999 - 05:48
I must throw Jim Clark and Monza '67 into
the mix.
the mix.
#9
Don Capps
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Posted 12 December 1999 - 11:23
Ian,
First, a belated welcome to the Forum!
Second, good choice about GH at the 1960 British GP. I was there and we thought Hill had it won only to see Brabham go by in the lead and no Hill since the speaker was only static where we were standing.
John, Chief & Davy -- all great choices!
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
First, a belated welcome to the Forum!
Second, good choice about GH at the 1960 British GP. I was there and we thought Hill had it won only to see Brabham go by in the lead and no Hill since the speaker was only static where we were standing.
John, Chief & Davy -- all great choices!
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
#10
Joe Fan
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Posted 12 December 1999 - 23:02
How about Fangio's 1957 German GP win at Nurburgring? Fangio was delayed by a lengthy pit stop late in the race which put him almost a minute behind the Lancia-Ferrari's driven by Mike Hawthorn and Peter Collins. In the last ten laps, Fangio turned up the heat setting new lap record after new lap record to win the race by 3.6 seconds over Mike Hawthorn.
#11
cjs f1
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Posted 13 December 1999 - 03:32
Jochen Rindt's incredible drive in the 1970 Monoco G.P., driving a Lotus 49C.
In the final laps, he was trailing Jack Brabham, and began to reel in laps that were faster than his qualifying times.
Then Brabham spins in the final corner in the very final lap, and Rindt takes the victory.
Jacky Ickx- his drives at the Nurburgring in, 1967 (in an F2 car), 1969, 1972. And his wet weather races such as the 1971 Dutch Grand Prix.
In the final laps, he was trailing Jack Brabham, and began to reel in laps that were faster than his qualifying times.
Then Brabham spins in the final corner in the very final lap, and Rindt takes the victory.
Jacky Ickx- his drives at the Nurburgring in, 1967 (in an F2 car), 1969, 1972. And his wet weather races such as the 1971 Dutch Grand Prix.
#12
arttidesco
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 00:37
Gilles at Monaco and Spain in 1981 for me :-)
But one that I have only read about that adds to this list would be Stewart's 4+ min victory at the 'Ring in 1968 through rain and fog and all with a broken wrist must have been an amazing feat of courage and endurance :-)
But one that I have only read about that adds to this list would be Stewart's 4+ min victory at the 'Ring in 1968 through rain and fog and all with a broken wrist must have been an amazing feat of courage and endurance :-)
#13
FigJam
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 04:04
Alain Prost - Spa 1986
Gilles Villeneuve - Monaco and Spain 1981
Schumacher - Nurburgring 1995 and Spain 1994
Gilles Villeneuve - Monaco and Spain 1981
Schumacher - Nurburgring 1995 and Spain 1994
#14
Dan333SP
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 04:24
That was an 11 year dig there to find this thread, nice one! I'll throw my vote in for Monza '67 while I'm at it, Clark at his finest. Yes, he had the fastest car, but to unlap himself from the entire field and get back into a position to challenge for the win is almost unthinkable, especially on a track where the cars were pretty much flat out most of the way around and the driver's ability to make up time depended more on playing the draft card correctly than raw talent.
#15
D-Type
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 12:14
Which was the race where Schumacher lost top gear but still won?
#16
Mallory Dan
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 12:19
Emilio de Villota, Lyncar, Mallory Park, March 1977.
#17
Michael Ferner
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 12:28
Which was the race where Schumacher lost top gear but still won?
You're probably thinking of Spain '94, but he finished "only" second. Still, an amazing drive, but I always thought of it more as a testimony to the phantastic qualities of the Ford Zetec-R engine, a winner first time out and some engine to enable a driver to pull a stunt like Schu at Barcelona!
#18
AlanR
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 12:46
More amazing in that it wasn't just the top gear he lost but also the bottom four gears. He drove two thirds of the race in fifth gear.
As a child of the 80s I think Wattie deserves a mention or two for his drives at Detroit 1982 and Long Beach 1983.
As a child of the 80s I think Wattie deserves a mention or two for his drives at Detroit 1982 and Long Beach 1983.
#19
knowyourenemy
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 13:00
Kimi Raikkonen - Japan 2005
Due to heavy rain, Kimi was only able to start from 17th position, at the start he run off the track but was able to catch back up due to a safety car.
Ralf Schumacher lead the race initally (thanks to his pole position) but after the first stops he was 8th and Fisichella had a comfortable lead, however Raikkone is closing all the time and after his final stop is only 5 secs behind Fisi. Fisi then get blocked slightly by a Mindari while Raikkonen gets past cleanly, which closes him up on the Renault.
Fisi starts getting defnensive which gives Raikkonen a tow on the staraight, first time he didnt manage to get past, but the second time Raikkonen got a better tow, and swept round the outside of Fisichella in to turn one.
A great drive, Kimi's last win for McLaren but i don't think any of us thought that 5 years after that race he would no longer be in F1.
Due to heavy rain, Kimi was only able to start from 17th position, at the start he run off the track but was able to catch back up due to a safety car.
Ralf Schumacher lead the race initally (thanks to his pole position) but after the first stops he was 8th and Fisichella had a comfortable lead, however Raikkone is closing all the time and after his final stop is only 5 secs behind Fisi. Fisi then get blocked slightly by a Mindari while Raikkonen gets past cleanly, which closes him up on the Renault.
Fisi starts getting defnensive which gives Raikkonen a tow on the staraight, first time he didnt manage to get past, but the second time Raikkonen got a better tow, and swept round the outside of Fisichella in to turn one.
A great drive, Kimi's last win for McLaren but i don't think any of us thought that 5 years after that race he would no longer be in F1.
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#20
Jean Alesi 90
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 13:14
Schumacher - Nurbrurgring '95.
He reeled in Alesi from a 43 second gap and pulled of a superb pass around the outside of the chicane with just 2 laps left.
A- Schumi had a Benetton, Jean a Ferrari.
B- Jean had not stopped for the pit-stop, he had the slick-tires from the beginning, when it rained.
C- Slower cars made him lose time in previous laps.
D- Last but not least, remember Suzuka 1995.
#21
GD66
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 16:02
Derek Warwick at Brands in the Toleman : rumours of Jungle Juice aside....
#22
LittleChris
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 19:58
Derek Warwick at Brands in the Toleman : rumours of Jungle Juice aside....
Thought lack of juice ( ie half tanks ) was the rumour ?
#23
Pink Snail
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 20:10
Here here! The roar from the Brands crowd as he passed the Ferrari coming into full view towards the final corner and the TV pictures were awesome!!!Derek Warwick at Brands in the Toleman : rumours of Jungle Juice aside....
