31 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

Dennis:
Have you ever stood alongside Mulsanne Straight when the quick cars were running?
It's a great recollection I have, my turn coming in 1981 in company with Peter Brock, Colin Bond and Jim Richards, who were there to not drive a Porsche which had blown up in practice.
We were perched on the inside, just before the rise that leads to the braking area. Behind the Armco and in the pine trees on a bit of an embankment. About 20' from the fence.
The cars came into sight through the sweeper, and your eyes might follow a fairly quick thing, say a 935, until it started to climb that rise and get on the brakes. You'd then swing back to see if anything was coming and there would be a 956 or the even-faster WM-Peugeot right there in front of you! Stunning.

[Dennis David]

The best time is during practice. You can feel it before you actually hear the car. There is a sound trying to break through and then it becomes distinct always growing ever louder but now you notice that ther are actually two sounds. In a flash the first car goes by but as your eyes turn by reflex the second sound catches you and before you realize it the second car has also just gone past. The engines backfiring seeming to fight at the notion of slowing down.

It's quite distinctive because of the momemts of silence broken by the roar of engines unlike the constant noise of most circuits there is the anticipation. I've only felt this there and at the old Nurburgring also during practice which is my favorite part of the race meet. I long for that feeling to the extent that I sometimes close my eyes and just listen. People ask me why I like car racing so much, well it's the sound I guess.



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Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Ray Bell]

Another reason for enjoying practice more is that more of the people out there with you are true enthusiasts, people with whom you can have a wholesome conversation.
I would have loved to see the Nurburgring. I don't talk about the old or new (I remember John Surtees talking about the new Nurburgring back in 1970, saying that he disliked it, but liked the old one - he was talking about a 'new' Nurburgring that would now be called the 'old' Nurburgring), as I don't count the present circuit as the Nurburgring. Simple as that. It is in name only.

[Fast One]

Ray--

I just call it the "Nu". The track is too short to deserve the whole name! What a travesty.

The main change I can remember was the addition of the "chicane at the end of the staight, just before the pits. The was just after the '65 season, I think. I'm not sure what they did later, although I read once that they scraped some of the track to eliminate the jumps. A concession to modern aerodynamics, I guess.

[This message has been edited by Fast One (edited 01-18-2000).]

[Ray Bell]

Around 68/69 they carved back a lot of forest, resurfaced a lot and added heaps of Armco. Possibly some of the tops of the crests came off too.
I don't know about any chicane, I don't recall it ever mentioned, which it would be in relation to lap times. There was a chicane just before the pits at Le Mans, of course, added in the late sixties.

I like the "Nu" - very clever.

[Fast One]

Ray--

If you've ever played Grand Prix Legends, the chicane that was added is the one just before the pit straight at the end of the lap. Before, the cars ripped right on down to the Sudkurve, which made the pits a pretty hairy place to be.

Speaking of the old Ring (or the Old Old Ring!), I remember being fascinated by a book, title unremembered, from the '60's, where Surtees was discussing the proper technique for taking the jumps. He said that just before the car hit the crest, he would stab the brakes quickly to get the nose to dive, the hit the throttle hard so that the front suspension rebounded, bringing the nose into the air as the car went aloft. This was done, he said, so that the rear tires would land earlier than the fronts, allowing the car to begin accelerating immediately while the fronts were still coming down! I am still amazed at the skill it would take to do that, jump after jump, lap after lap. GPL has taught me it's hard enough just to land at Flugplatz without crashing!

What a track it WAS.

[Dennis David]

He was very specific about not spending a lot of time in the air and wanted to get power to the road as quick as possible. Guess that's why he owned that track in his prime. I missed the original configuration as my first time there was in 1973.

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Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Statesidefan]

The fastest part of LeMans now is the run from Mulsanne to Indianapolis. I heard that someone's back yard actually borders the fastest part and they tend their flower garden during the April pre-qualifying.

Imagine stopping your chores to listen for the sound of a Judd V-10 howling toward you at 220 MPH.

Bliss....................................

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"The strategy of a Formula One race is very simple. It's flat out from the minute the flag drops." Mario Andretti 1976

[Ray Bell]

My most indelible memory from Le Mans is the lack of comprehension as I watched at Arnage, around midnight. You can't see the attitude of the cars, just the lights, and you feel sure that they are out of control and about to come and get you. I was standing at a flag point (I had a press pass) and it really was amazing.
I won't forget getting chucked out of the Restaurant Hunidaires, either, for not knowing how to say "silver plates."
Regarding Fearless John and the Nurburgring, as I said, he told me he didn't like the "new" ring, perhaps it had less to be gained from such antics.
And as for GPL, I loved my session at it, but I can't get that on my computer because I would never get away from it!

[Ian McKean]

Interested to read Fast One's account of Surtees' technique over "yumps".

Seems to me that it might have had a lot to do with his "looping the loop" accident in the Lola 70.

When I took yumps on rallies I think I just went over the top and tried to remember not to over rev in mid air.

The Peugeot 205 T16 was said to be difficult over yumps because its transverse engine could cause it to change its pitch in mid air whereas a fore and aft engine might cause the car to roll in mid air, if the revs are not held constant

Ian McKean

[Fast One]

Do you mean at Mosport? There was no jump there.

[Incal]

A freind who went to Le Mans told me he could feel the Mazdas in his bones when sittng on the ground before he heard them. I figure there must be some nasty sonics coming out of the rotary's. Their engine tone is not exactly pleasant either.

[BRG]

Ahhh, the old Mulsanne straight…before the dreaded chicanes.

I used to go to Le Mans regularly with a crowd from my motor club - we used to be able to fill a 45 seat coach. It wasn’t till I went by car that it was really practical to get out to Arnage, Indianaopolis and Mulsanne corner which are all great places to watch. If you were keen, you could get to somewhere along the straight - we used to go to a point just after the restaurant. The cars would be nearly flat out by then (maybe 220mph) and the sensation was amazing. You were very close - just a row of armco and a grass verge - maybe 20 feet? The sensation was extremely physical - the sound really battered you.

But for sensational sounds at Le Mans, the V12 Matras took some beating. I remember trying to get some sleep and realising that you could hear the Matras all the way around the circuit. That shrill wail was incredible.

An anecdote, whilst I think of the Mulsanne and the Restuarnt Vingt-Quatre Heures - I recall that one year we had actually managed to book a table for the Sunday night after the race. In the private room next door, Porsche were celebrating a Bell/Ickx 956 victory (it was Jacky’s 5th, I think and Derek’s 3rd). The main restaurant was full of Brits and we were pretty happy about a British driver winning. We made so much noise shouting for Derek that eventually he had to come in and take a round of applause standing on the table - we felt that Ickx was getting all the attention and whilst he deserved a lot of praise for 5 wins, we wanted to congratulate our man Derek as well - after all 3 wins at Le Mans is pretty special too. Apparently only Belgians can win 5 times!



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BRG

[Ray Bell]

Good old cousin Derek. You know, we both have sons named Justin!
Haven't seen him for ages, be nice to catch up with him again - I know a trip to Goodwood would do the trick. Sigh!

[Incal]

Ray, Derek is your cousin? This is the same Derek Bell who does the ring in 6:41.2 whilst constantly talking about the why and wherefores of what he is doing (now there is a video I want)? I dips me lid at your family tree Ray.

[Ray Bell]

No, he's not actually a cousin - or any relative at all as far as I know.
This all dates back to the late seventies when he frequently raced here, and when we got to know each other we jokingly referred to each other as such.
So it's all a joke - perhaps this time carried too far, sorry.

[BRG]

Good old Dinger. A brilliant sports car driver and a really nice bloke as well. Occasionally (but sadly only occasionally), we English do manage to produce an authentic allround sporting hero - a gentleman, a sportsman and a winner all at the same time.

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BRG

[Ray Bell]

And you'll note that he can take a joke, even a bad one!
He certainly looked good in the Ferrari at Warwick Farm in 1969, too.
One of his best drives here, though, was in an Alfa GTV1750 at Bathurst. Flogged it all day. Good preparation for the 'ring.

[arttidesco]

This is the same Derek Bell who does the ring in 6:41.2 whilst constantly talking about the why and wherefores of what he is doing (now there is a video I want)?

Is this the video of Derek Bell in the 956 you mean ?

I guess we did not have youtube back in 2000 :-)

[Jesper O. Hansen]

Dennis:
Have you ever stood alongside Mulsanne Straight when the quick cars were running?
It's a great recollection I have, my turn coming in 1981 in company with Peter Brock, Colin Bond and Jim Richards, who were there to not drive a Porsche which had blown up in practice.
We were perched on the inside, just before the rise that leads to the braking area. Behind the Armco and in the pine trees on a bit of an embankment. About 20' from the fence.
The cars came into sight through the sweeper, and your eyes might follow a fairly quick thing, say a 935, until it started to climb that rise and get on the brakes. You'd then swing back to see if anything was coming and there would be a 956 or the even-faster WM-Peugeot right there in front of you! Stunning.

In a recent thread I noticed this entry as a DNQ for the 1981 race, with a time 58th fastest of 62 for a 55 car grid. A blow up might explain the not-starting issue, but what was the story of Porsche Cars Australia entry? A crack driving team although with little Le Mans experience and "Bondy" beyond his best, according to himself.
(There were no 956s around in 1981!)

Jesper

Edited by Jesper O. Hansen, 19 June 2010 - 06:33.

[ellrosso]

It was a factory 924 Carrera GTP entered by Alan Hamilton under the Porsche Australia banner and basically was a disaster with assorted problems derailing the whole effort. Hamilton was very upset with the lack of support from the "works" re the car provided to them (long story....) - with that driver line-up it could have been a very successful campaign. In 1981 you couldn't get a much better endurance combo than Brock, Richards and Bond.

[Jesper O. Hansen]

It was a factory 924 Carrera GTP entered by Alan Hamilton under the Porsche Australia banner and basically was a disaster with assorted problems derailing the whole effort. Hamilton was very upset with the lack of support from the "works" re the car provided to them (long story....) - with that driver line-up it could have been a very successful campaign. In 1981 you couldn't get a much better endurance combo than Brock, Richards and Bond.

Being a long time admirer of Allan Grice I would play the Devils advocate for his choice in the line-up ...but, admittedly his time came half a decade after, although comtemporary of the others. ..so the long story of the works Porsche was? Please!

Jesper

Edited by Jesper O. Hansen, 19 June 2010 - 15:00.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, Jesper, Bondy was prepared to say he was 'beyond his best'...

But if they weren't 956s, they weren't much slower. Did I really get the model wrong? Apparently it was the engine for the upcoming 956 being trialled in a 936 chassis. What was the model number then?

[Jesper O. Hansen]

It would have been a 936, likely called 936/81 by 1981: http://www.acmenovel...ules_blurry.jpg
Beautyfull car.

Jesper

[arttidesco]

Group C was still a year away in 1981, the GP 6 Porsches which ran were the yellow Kremer brothers #10 917 K/81 the #11 and #12 works 936/81 with 2.65 litre modified Indy engines later used in the 956, the #14 Joest 908/80 with a 2.1 litre turbo motor.

Incidentally the #74 was in good company Richard Lloyd and Tony Dron did not qualify their #75 924 either.

[Catalina Park]

Incidentally the #74 was in good company Richard Lloyd and Tony Dron did not qualify their #75 924 either.

If I remember correctly the 924s were all having the same problems. I think it was engine management causing blow ups or something like that. A few Porsche customers were rather upset that the ready to race customer cars would not run long enough to qualify.

[Towil]

Here is a nice model of said car. PCA 924

I heard the biggest problem was the gearbox which been 'updated' by the factory in the build up to the race. The box that came out of #74 went into a one of the official works cars and proved to be reliable, the suspicion being that the problem was understood by the factory. Hence the return to old spec.

[Jesper O. Hansen]

Here is a nice model of said car. PCA 924

I heard the biggest problem was the gearbox which been 'updated' by the factory in the build up to the race. The box that came out of #74 went into a one of the official works cars and proved to be reliable, the suspicion being that the problem was understood by the factory. Hence the return to old spec.

Interesting to note that the review of the model says that Jim Richards failed to qualify (just), which can mean that his laptimes weren't fast enough or he failed to complete the mandatory laps during both day light and night driving ..or both. If the car had made it to the grid, Richards wouldt not have been part of the line up presumably.

Was this 924 the same that was raced in the Australian GT-series within the next few years. I even think I remember Colin Bond was the driver, but ....

Jesper

Edited by Jesper O. Hansen, 21 June 2010 - 16:59.

[Ray Bell]

I have a notion that it was...

It was only a brief thing, however.

[arttidesco]

Dennis:
Have you ever stood alongside Mulsanne Straight when the quick cars were running?
It's a great recollection I have, my turn coming in 1981 in company with Peter Brock, Colin Bond and Jim Richards, who were there to not drive a Porsche which had blown up in practice.
We were perched on the inside, just before the rise that leads to the braking area. Behind the Armco and in the pine trees on a bit of an embankment. About 20' from the fence.
The cars came into sight through the sweeper, and your eyes might follow a fairly quick thing, say a 935, until it started to climb that rise and get on the brakes. You'd then swing back to see if anything was coming and there would be a 956 or the even-faster WM-Peugeot right there in front of you! Stunning.

Ignoring the presence of specific machines yes I have, some where in the mid 1980's probably 1987 a friend and I got lost somewhere between Mulsanne and up stream from the kink around midnight, when we stopped the car we could hear the track was close and like flies attracted by lights we went to take a gander at what was happening through the woods.

The spectacle of the head light patterns illuminating the trees at 200 mph down to the kink was amazing as there was little ambient light back then pre chicanes, the sound was ear splitting with most cars approaching the kink without any hint of lifting off followed by a whump as the cars actually passed we were transfixed for nearly an hour before trying to find our way back to Arnage.

I would not recommend standing in an unsanctioned spectator area usually, but really glad I did just the once.

Still stirs my blood thinking about it over 20 years later.

[racer69]

Was this 924 the same that was raced in the Australian GT-series within the next few years. I even think I remember Colin Bond was the driver, but ....

Jesper

As far as i know yes it was. Alan Jones was supposed to drive it in 1982, but Hamilton ended up buying a 935 for him, and Colin Bond drove the 924. He also drove it a few times in 1983.


On another note from earlier in the thread, Did Colin Bond really consider himself past it in 1981??

[Ray Bell]

Colin Bond, as told me by Terry Finnigan, was involved in a discussion about when a driver is at his best...

He felt he reached his peak at about 33. That was in the heyday of the XU-1s, from memory, and there's a great story about him in the Heatway Rally in New Zealand at that time. He drove right through the field time after time after some early troubles, eyes out on stalks apparently.

I've forgotten who it was now, but that drive impressed one of the overseas drivers so much that when he was asked on television who he thought was the best rally driver ever, he unhesitatingly said, "Colin Bond!" And the interviewer didn't know who he was talking about!