313 replies to this topic

[Alexey Rogachev]

yep, I digitized my article collection. It's in Estonian language.

One page is missed there - the one from "Tehnika", 1996, 5, with the photos of the Estonia 24. I have it but in rather low resolution...

[vax]

Hello again!
Just found some old video material - it's from Finland, Kemora & Ahvenisto tracks. There's some Esttec cars (Estonia 24 evolution) participating and also "Formula Lada" - ie. Estonia 21-s. Toivo Asmer, Ott Vanaselja and others caught on moving picture

[Alexander M]

A very nice footage of Dzintara Volga event from various years held at Bikernieki track in Riga suburb.

http://rus.tvnet.lv/online_tv/2800

In Latvian language.

[arttidesco]

Thanks for the film links to bad Google Translator cannot do speech..... yet

[RStock]

The Auto-Union at Bikernieki, 1979:



Source: http://visualrian.ru/images/item/51492

Is there any more information about this photo ? Who's driving ? What's the occasion ? etc. , etc.

[arttidesco]

This might be the special hill climb spec type C displayed in a Museum in Riga referred to in this article, sorry I cannot help you further look forward to finding out the story :-)

http://www.ultimatec...ion-Type-D.html

[Alexey Rogachev]

Yes, this is definitely the AU that was owned by Riga AAK club. The photo was taken in 1979, and person at the wheel is the chairman of this club (Viktor Kulbergs?). I don't think he (and anyone else) could drive it, as the car wasn't able to move under its own power. I remember reading an article saying that the AU took part in a historic cars festival... in tow!

[RStock]

Yes, this is definitely the AU that was owned by Riga AAK club. The photo was taken in 1979, and person at the wheel is the chairman of this club (Viktor Kulbergs?). I don't think he (and anyone else) could drive it, as the car wasn't able to move under its own power. I remember reading an article saying that the AU took part in a historic cars festival... in tow!

Thanks Alexey !

[arttidesco]

I remember reading an article saying that the AU took part in a historic cars festival... in tow!

I am not so sure a contemporary 1979 picture of this AU in tow did not reach us in the west I could be mistaken but now you mention it, that rings a bell, not sure if I saw it in a German Magazine or a British one unfortunately I now have neither to look it up.

Ditto REDARMYSOJA Thanks Alexey :-)

[Alexey Rogachev]

Need some help from experts in Western sportscars of the fifties with a (possibly) stupid question Here is a link to the technical data of the Moskvich 404 Sport, a works sportscar built in Moscow in 1954: http://www.dlg.speed...ch/404sport.php. So the question is as follows: what contemporary sportscars from Western Europe (and perhaps USA) of the same engine capacity could it be compared with and could it have any little chance of success in a hypothetic race against them?

[arttidesco]

Here are some contenders from the UK my first thought was that the 'your' 404 Sport looked like our 'TR2' which it turns out has a 2 litre engine and was built from '53 to '55.

Next I thought the 404 Sport might be comparable to the 'Austin Healey (Frogeye) Sprite MK1' 1958 to 1961 but it is slightly younger and has a smaller engine.

Finally for now I'd say the 404 Sport most closely resembles the 'Jowett Jupiter' 1950 - 1954 which had a slightly larger engine but slightly lower top speed.

Look forward to seeing what other ideas get put forward :-)

[Vitesse2]

Frankly Alexey, I think some of those figures might have been - shall we say - "manipulated". The maximum speed is roughly equivalent to a contemporary Lotus 7, which usually had an 1172cc Ford 100E engine developing 40bhp in road trim. The Lotus weighed about 330 kilos ...

[David McKinney]

The Moskvich's 58bhp for a weight of 902kg does not compare favourably with the contemporary MGA (68bhp for the same weight). And when you get into more exotic machinery you're up against a Porsche 550's 110bhp in 612kg

[Alexey Rogachev]

Frankly Alexey, I think some of those figures might have been - shall we say - "manipulated".

[Vitesse2]

Just a thought: was this a tuned production sports car or - as the web page indicates - a "one-off"? In which case it might be more appropriate to compare it against (say) a Lotus Eleven.

[Vitesse2]

Given the quoted engine size, power output and weight, the maximum speed looks a bit suspect

The MGA David quoted - again in road trim - was quoted at about 150km/h from a 1489cc engine in a chassis weighing about 865 kilos.

[Alexey Rogachev]

Naturally a "one-off" - have you ever heard of any production sportscar from the Soviet Union? However, it was widely based on mass production details, so the Moskvich works could have been able to produce the sportscars of this type - if a direction from the higher-ups had been received, of course.

[Vitesse2]

Incidentally, the weight in kilos quoted for the Jowett on that Wiki page is wrong. By about 400 kilos

http://www.jowettjup...co.uk/specs.htm

[Tim Murray]

Don't forget that a car's weight (or lack of it) has little or no effect on its out-and-out maximum speed.

[Alexey Rogachev]

If you have to drive some 200 km straightforward and 200 km backward on a highway, as they used to do in the USSR in the fifties (so-called point-to-point races), you can afford to lose some seconds accelerating due to a big car weight The 404 Sport used to have average speeds over 140 km/h in every point-to-point race in participated in.

Edited by Alexey Rogachev, 24 August 2010 - 10:23.

[Vitesse2]

Well, on that basis - which is of course different from the continual brake/accelerate of a circuit race - and flicking quickly through a contemporary (1958) book on racing and sports cars (and bear in mind these are production cars in standard road trim), I think it would have been equalled or outrun by the DB-Panhard (850cc), the Elva Courier (1489cc), the Fairthorpe Electron (1098cc), Lotus Elite (1216c) and Lotus 7 (1172cc).

A Lotus Eleven, Maserati 150S, Osca MT4, Porsche 550 or HRG would have left it for dead ...

[Alexey Rogachev]

Thank you all! I'm going to compile a small comparison table of technical data for the forthcoming 1954 season review on my web site, and I'll also post it to this thread for clarity sake.

[arttidesco]

Incidentally, the weight in kilos quoted for the Jowett on that Wiki page is wrong. By about 400 kilos

http://www.jowettjup...co.uk/specs.htm

[rwills]

I am in the final stages of preparing a GAZ Volga M21 for the St Mary's Trophy at the Goodwood Revival. We have been hoping to have a certain Russian F1 driver share the drive but that may not happen. Another star is lined up in case that falls through. We will not be fast but hope to have a lot of laughs. Please come and say hi.

Roger

[Alexey Rogachev]

It's a bit pity I can't be there - but I'll be at another historic festival at the same moment, namely the Dzintara Volga (the Amber Volga) in Riga

[arttidesco]

Roger,

The early Volga races which you're referring to are definitely the 1959 Kalev Trophy (Kalevi Suursõit) and the 1960 Season Opening Trophy, aren't they? Unfortunately I don't have any photos just of these races but there are a lot of photos of racing Volgas from the mid-sixties in my archive. You can also try the photo galleries on my Latvian friend's web site: http://www.racinghis...oto_arhivs.html.

I notice these GAZ 21 Volga's were available with either a 2.4 litre in line four cylinders or 5.2 litre V8's did they ever race the V8's ?

[Alexander M]

I notice these GAZ 21 Volga's were available with either a 2.4 litre in line four cylinders or 5.2 litre V8's did they ever race the V8's ?

You seemingly speak about GAZ 23 - 21 with ZMZ 23 5,53 V8 engine based on ZMZ 13 unit from GAZ 13 Chaika. I have never heard of any of the 23's being used in racing (maybe it's just me, though), but there were some specials with a sister engine - the original ZMZ 13. One of them was a Lithuanian single-seater built by Vilnis Janikovskis in mid-sixties. Another car using ZMZ 13 engine was ZIL 112S - one of the cars was fitted with this block for some time. Finally, Yuri Vishniakov raced a single-seater with ZMZ 13 engine, which has started its life as Estonia 11 experimental car, but was sold unfinished to him. All three vehicles have been raced in F5 (Libre) class.

[Alexey Rogachev]

There was one V8 GAZ 23 that made an entry at Bikernieki about 1968.

[arttidesco]

Thanks Alexander and Alexey, I understood there was a small series of Gaz 21's with V8's was there any major difference in the bodywork between the 21 & 23 ? I stand corrected on the engine size

[Alexander M]

Thanks Alexander and Alexey, I understood there was a small series of Gaz 21's with V8's was there any major difference in the bodywork between the 21 & 23 ? I stand corrected on the engine size

Comparatively small - all the sources I have seen speak about 600+ cars. There were no major differences in the bodywork, because the car was made for special services including KGB and had to work undercover mimicking an ordinary Volga. Russian wiki, though, mentions some differences in grille, which I haven't noticed myself...

Edited by Alexander M, 02 November 2010 - 13:28.

[arttidesco]

Thanks Alexander that explains my confusion perhaps, I did not know the G23 was a KGB G21 in disguise

[RobertS]

Tallin 1981

[Alexey Rogachev]

With all my respect for the RIAN photo library, they've made a mistake: in fact, this is the year 1976. No. 65 is Vladislav Barkovsky's BPS-Estonia, and the Brabham-like car no. 2 is the Estonia 18M modified by Toomas Napa. A meticulous viewer can also notice Antanas Jurevičius (no. 40), Alexandr Kucherenko (66), Elmo Salm (22), and Raul Sarap (11).

[Alan Cox]

More interesting photos to a westerner's eyes. I love the (unprotected) proximity of the woodland to the circuit.

[Alexey Rogachev]

Quite right, the Pirita circuit has never had any barriers. Here is one more photo of the same race with a better view of the start-finish straight:

[sramoa]

Still about Soviet Racing:Who was Yuri Sidorov?Same person who entered(?) 1949 Czechoslowak GP with a Tatra car and who raced in about 1967 Soviet F1 Chapionship?

[RobertS]

With all my respect for the RIAN photo library, they've made a mistake: in fact, this is the year 1976. No. 65 is Vladislav Barkovsky's BPS-Estonia, and the Brabham-like car no. 2 is the Estonia 18M modified by Toomas Napa.

Agree. I sent you a photo of the same car from 1976 Schleiz.

http://visualrian.ru...;types[]=russia

Maybe you can correct their error with an E-mail ;)

Edited by RobertS, 09 October 2011 - 11:42.

[Alexey Rogachev]

Still about Soviet Racing:Who was Yuri Sidorov?Same person who entered(?) 1949 Czechoslowak GP with a Tatra car and who raced in about 1967 Soviet F1 Chapionship?

This question has been discussed here yet: http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=3911047. I can add that there had been indeed a racing driver whose name was Yuri Sidorov but he started racing not earlier than 1958 or 1959 at the wheel of the self-made sportscar, then drove the 500-cc Estonia 3, then the F3 Wartburg-powered Melkus and finished his racing career in 1967 or 1968. He definitely couldn't be the same person than (I believe) the fictional 1949 driver, for he is marked in the 1959 race programme as "б/р" ("без разряда", "no sport grade"), i. e. he was an absolutely inexperienced driver at the moment.

Edited by Alexey Rogachev, 09 October 2011 - 16:15.

[Alexey Rogachev]

Agree. I sent you a photo of the same car from 1976 Schleiz.

http://visualrian.ru...;types[]=russia

Maybe you can correct their error with an E-mail ;)

Yes, I still have your photo of the BPS-Estonia - this is the best shot of the early version of this car in my archive. Even its designer and driver Vladislav Barkovsky doesn't have anything better in his personal photo album

[Alexey Rogachev]

Four short videos from the Estonian Film Archive:

1959 Kalevi Suursõit: http://www.filmi.arh...ache=1321631558 (at 05:52)
1962 Kalevi Suursõit: http://www.filmi.arh...ache=1321631264 (at 07:10)
1962 USSR championship, round 1: http://www.filmi.arh...ache=1321631558 (at 07:10)
1966 Kalevi Suursõit: http://www.filmi.arh...ache=1321631264 (at 06:01)

A bit of advice: click on "Suurenda" ("Enlarge") for bigger view.

Edited by Alexey Rogachev, 18 November 2011 - 16:36.

[David McKinney]

Gold dust

[Alexey Rogachev]

One little request to anyone who will read this post. Some foreign (Germany etc.) visitors of my web site have reported me that they couldn't read it properly due to Cyrillic enconding (Windows-1251) of its pages. They advised me to convert them into UTF-8 encoding, so that they really could be read by people worldwide. Here is the link to the first test page in UTF-8: http://www.ussr-auto.../speedrush.html (I have intentionally chosen a web page containing the big text). Please visit it and if there are any bugs with encoding, write about them in this thread. Thank you in advance!

(Although this thread is now in 'Historical research' section, I hope Stuart and David wouldn't consider this post as 'fluff' )

Edited by Alexey Rogachev, 11 December 2011 - 08:24.

[ensign14]

Looks fine to me.

/thinks about learning Russian

[Vitesse2]

Fine here too. (Firefox 9 beta on W7)

[David McKinney]

Interesting - it's still in Cyrillic script when I open the link on iMac/Safari, and on my Windows laptop/Explorer...

And no, I regard this as legitimate research, not fluff

[Alexey Rogachev]

Interesting - it's still in Cyrillic script when I open the link on iMac/Safari, and on my Windows laptop/Explorer...

And no, I regard this as legitimate research, not fluff

Sorry, but what's the problem? If you see the Cyrillic characters properly, this is quite what I'm seeking.

[Hockenheim Racer]

Gold dust

Hello Alexey,
for me it is still Cyrillic. What do I have to do?
Jörg

[Alexey Rogachev]

David and Jörg,

I'm afraid my post hasn't been properly understood. I mean that the aforementioned web page in UTF-8 is still in Russian, I haven't translated it into any other language, and the problem was that people from countries where Cyrillic script is not in common use cannot see it as it must be seen because their OS' and browsers don't support Windows-1251. So the question is whether converting the page to UTF-8 solve this problem and enables it to be seen and read like this:

[Hockenheim Racer]

David and Jörg,

I'm afraid my post hasn't been properly understood. I mean that the aforementioned web page in UTF-8 is still in Russian, I haven't translated it into any other language, and the problem was that people from countries where Cyrillic script is not in common use cannot see it as it must be seen because their OS' and browsers don't support Windows-1251. So the question is whether converting the page to UTF-8 solve this problem and enables it to be seen and read like this:

Dear Alexey,
sorry that I didn´t understand You.
But it would be great if You could keep in mind for the future to translate Your homepage into English so that all not-russian-speaking people can enjoy Your site. For me it is very interesting what happened behind the "iron curtain" because here in the west of Germany we couldn´t read nothing about the races at all.
Best wishes
Jörg

[Alexey Rogachev]

Thanks to all for the comments, now all the pages of my web site are in UTF-8. Of course, translating them into English would be better for its foreign visitors but this would really be an enormous task...